Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1]

Author Topic: Card idea: Errand Boy  (Read 433 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

ConMan

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1280
  • Respect: +1515
    • View Profile
Card idea: Errand Boy
« on: May 09, 2018, 07:37:47 pm »
+1

Errand Boy
$4 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
---
Setup: Each player secretly chooses their +1 Action, +1 Buy or +$1 token to place on this pile. (When you play a card from this pile, you first get that bonus.)

Should be balanced enough at $4? Gives you what you need (as long as what you need isn't draw or trashing - the first makes the card hard to price, and the second makes it harder to describe succintly). I suppose you could also have the players choose in turn order, if that makes much of a difference?
Logged

Commodore Chuckles

  • Tactician
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 403
  • Shuffle iT Username: Commodore Chuckles
  • Respect: +673
    • View Profile
Re: Card idea: Errand Boy
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2018, 08:16:40 pm »
0

How does the "secret" part work? Does everyone hold their chosen token in their fist and then reveal them all at the same time? Eventually they'll have to actually put the tokens on the pile, right?

I like the idea of secret choices being made at the beginning that are only revealed when the game starts, but this seems like a weird and convoluted way to do it. My idea is for each player to secretly choose an Heirloom-like card to replace one of their starting Coppers and that's only revealed when they play it (or when they have to reveal their hand for Bureaucrat etc.)
Logged

ConMan

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1280
  • Respect: +1515
    • View Profile
Re: Card idea: Errand Boy
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2018, 10:25:49 pm »
0

How does the "secret" part work? Does everyone hold their chosen token in their fist and then reveal them all at the same time? Eventually they'll have to actually put the tokens on the pile, right?

I like the idea of secret choices being made at the beginning that are only revealed when the game starts, but this seems like a weird and convoluted way to do it. My idea is for each player to secretly choose an Heirloom-like card to replace one of their starting Coppers and that's only revealed when they play it (or when they have to reveal their hand for Bureaucrat etc.)
Yeah, the reveal (and putting the token on the pile) would happen after the Kingdom is set up, before everyone shuffles their starting decks and draws their first hand. (Probably after first player is determined, but maybe not.)
Logged

Holunder9

  • Tactician
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 447
  • Respect: +181
    • View Profile
Re: Card idea: Errand Boy
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2018, 01:35:13 am »
0

It is probably OK but it is also better than Poacher. I'd include an opt-out, i.e. if you don't want to put your token on the pile you get someting else.
Logged

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7009
  • Respect: +7839
    • View Profile
Re: Card idea: Errand Boy
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2018, 10:50:21 am »
0

Other than being strictly better than Poacher, I don't think the decision will often be very interesting or difficult. In most Kingdoms, + is obviously the best (You get a Poacher rather than a Village or Market Square). But then in a Kingdom with no +buy at all, you are almost always going to choose +buy (unless there's just no engine possible at all). Same with a Kingdom with no villages and choosing +action.

So ultimately, this card is going to just end up being either a Poacher without the drawback, or a slightly overpriced Village in a kingdom with no other villages, or an overpriced Market Square in a kingdom with no other +buy. And it will almost always be the same for all players.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

ClouduHieh

  • Bishop
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 116
  • Shuffle iT Username: ClouduHieh
  • Respect: +41
    • View Profile
Re: Card idea: Errand Boy
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2018, 05:43:58 am »
0

Well I think each person would just secretly pick their own token of their color and put it face down on the card pile. Then after the game begins then they just flip the token over and see everyone’s choice then. And also what about the +1 card token it’s a set with the other 3. It doesn’t seem right to leave that one out. There’s only one problem. If teacher was in the game or one of the certain events. They would also have to keep their other tokens face down too. And if someone chose the same token as one of the events. Then it wouldn’t be a secret would it.

However I just came up with an idea. What if the card let you put a coin token on the pile as part of the action. And once you chose a token to put on the pile then it would stay there for the rest of the game. I know it would kinda of stink that ability would only be a one time use. But I think most people could get past that. Cause they would start benefiting from their choice right away.
Logged

ClouduHieh

  • Bishop
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 116
  • Shuffle iT Username: ClouduHieh
  • Respect: +41
    • View Profile
Re: Card idea: Errand Boy
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2018, 05:53:55 am »
0

As still an action that lets you put the coin on pile why don’t you make it only one coin of each type is allowed on there so that way everyone would be trying to get there hands on it first so they could choose the best option first. Kinda like the first person to get to pick a prize with tournament.
And if you added +1 card token then it would be like a cheaper laboratory. And in a game With no buys +1 card might still be better than +1 buy.
Logged

Asper

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4541
  • Respect: +4884
    • View Profile
Re: Card idea: Errand Boy
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2018, 10:01:18 am »
0

To be honest, I like the OP more than any of the "fix" suggestions. Including the card token makes it a Lab, it's just such an obvious choice. And how is an Heirloom less convoluted than putting it in your fist at startup?

I don't think Village vs Peddler vs Market Square is that bad, either. So if the Kingdom has no Villages, but a few cantrips, why not take the Peddler still? What if it lacks both the Village and +Buy, or rather the way to access each isn't that great? I seriously doubt it's going to be that trivial.

Anyhow, if you are really worried about Peddler being superior, you could make it draw two djscard two. That way it's either Inn sans on-gain, Oasis+ or a Market Square variant. The sifting should perhaps support a real engine more than simple cantrip chains, or at least make it behave slightly different to just a Village.

Commodore Chuckles

  • Tactician
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 403
  • Shuffle iT Username: Commodore Chuckles
  • Respect: +673
    • View Profile
Re: Card idea: Errand Boy
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2018, 12:09:02 pm »
0

And how is an Heirloom less convoluted than putting it in your fist at startup?

Maybe not less convoluted, but more intuitive. Having to use tokens from a specific set just feels unnecessarily roundabout. Also, I agree with Gendo that the OP version mostly just seems boring. So, you get to choose what bonus the cantrip gives you, meh. Choosing from cards that are completely different from each other opens up all kinds of possibilities.
Logged

Gazbag

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 531
  • Shuffle iT Username: Gazbag
  • Respect: +713
    • View Profile
Re: Card idea: Errand Boy
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2018, 12:59:48 pm »
+1

I remember I posted this ages ago which is a similar idea. I like the secret choice, that's how I'd do it now. I do think there's a good card or two to be made with this kind of start of game choice...

There were a few problems that I came across when thinking about those cards and I do think this runs into a few. One was that if you have the modes have wildly different functions then the decision of which to choose becomes interesting less often, as it starts to become obvious what effect the kingdom is missing - I think this falls into that problem. There will certainly be games where the decision is non-trivial but I feel like at least half the time it'll be pretty obvious what the best token is.
Another problem with this is that once you've made the decision the card is very bland, either Village, Market Square with no reaction or Poacher with no downside. We've all played many games featuring these cards before so it just isn't very exciting.
It can also be hard to balance this kind of thing, you need the options to all be roughly the same power so they all work at the same cost. This kind of fails there, 2 of the options are "strictly worse" versions of existing cards and the other is "strictly better" than an existing card.

I think Asper's suggestion of changing it to +2 cards discard 2 cards is a good idea as it does fix a few of these problems, although that with the +$1 token seems like quite a formidable opening buy so maybe that's no good either? Honestly it seems clear that on a cantrip +$1 is just more valuable than the other 2 options, like Market vs Bazaar vs activated Conspirator. 
Logged
Pages: [1]
 

Page created in 0.092 seconds with 20 queries.