Dominion > Dominion General Discussion

To Those Who Deny Undo Steps Online

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Screwyioux:
I've had a hunch for a while, one more about people than Dominion, but now I have some numbers suggesting it too, and those are 100% Dominion.

See, I have a blanket policy of blacklisting anyone who denies one of my undo steps for any reason. Granted, I don't request dubious ones (yes, subjective, I know-- not the point of this post), but as you can imagine, I have a decently long blacklist at this point.

I recently searched the Scavenger Leaderboard to compare it with my blacklist and not a single one of them is in the top 1000 players.

I play a LOT of games, against players of all skill levels, and it's easy to notice that skilled players tend not to deny undos very often. Do I have confirmation bias? Sure.

But referencing my blacklist against the leaderboard with zero overlap is also pretty convincing that denying your opponent an undo step betrays a lack of confidence in your play. That lack of confidence in turn suggests a deficit of skill, but that's to be expected if you create negative play experiences for yourself and your opponent.

So if you're one of these people, holding yourselves back with a toxic attitude toward the game and your fellow players, I want to challenge you to reconsider. Next time you're thinking about pressing "deny," think twice. Grant the step and see how much better your games get, and how much better you get as a player.

teamlyle:
Thank you! Someone needed to make this post.

I can sort of understand why some people don't like granting undos, but I personally think that having fun and seeing who's the better Dominion player (or who's more lucky) should take priority over winning, especially winning over a misclick.

Actually, I have 2 people on my blacklist (I know it would be bad to say their names in public) who both denied my undo request after I accidentally played my Coppers when I wanted to buy Grand Market. Both are in the top 1000, and one is even near the very top, around place 20 or 30. I'm not rooting for anyone to fail, but please, tell me they didn't get so high up by preying on misclicks... :P

Dingan:
Is that the only reason you blacklist? I feel there are plenty of people who are skilled and do reasonable undo's, but are jerks. Of the 52 players I've blacklisted (I have a straight-from-deny-to-blacklist policy as well), 23 are in the top 1000, with a handful as high as 100-200. (Granted, I have recently set my match-me-against-minimum-player-rating to be the top 900-ish players, but that's beside the point.)

Anyways .. I've wondered if any players eventually get blacklisted by everyone except other commonly-blacklisted players, thus perpetuating their play styles. You'd think people would eventually "take the hint", but may not if they tend to only hang out with other jerks.

Or they may feel they lose because they allow too many undos, thus falling in a cycle.

Is there any sort of timeout to blacklist? It might not be a bad idea if, say, 12 months after user X blacklists user Y, they become un-blacklisted. Cus ya know, people can change.

Dingan:
I also feel that friendly chat can be a great way to learn from your opponents, pick their brain, etc. "Why did you open x/y?", "Do you think Gardens could have caught up?", etc. But the people that are not friendly chatters miss out on this. I wonder how much this plays into their ranking. Of course everyone learns differently - maybe it doesn't matter.

GendoIkari:
I don’t get this at all personally. I would see allowing an undo as being very gracious and sportsman-like, but to a degree above what I think should be minimally expected of people. I think someone is fully within their rights to deny an undo, and that such an act is not poor sportsmanship or rude; it is simply a lack of excessively good sportsmanship.

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