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Author Topic: One of the greatest 2 player games ever  (Read 397 times)

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Jeebus

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One of the greatest 2 player games ever
« on: April 23, 2018, 06:11:09 pm »
+5

Yesterday I had one of the greatest 2 player games I've had. Unfortunately it's one of those blasted "Internal Error" games, so I can't reload it.

I remember all the cards except one:
Tunnel, Bard, Vineyard, Golem, City Quarter, Catapult, Secret Passage, Cursed Village, Apprentice
Battlefield, Pilgrimage


There were several things that made it great:
* Two completely different strategies.
* Both strats influenced the other: He opened Tunnels as a response to my Catapult, I couldn't touch the Provinces because of his continuing lead.
* Both strats had support but also challenges from the kingdom. (Tunnel great with Battlefield, but no voluntary discarding, only from opponent's Catapult. Vineyard great with Pilgrimage, but no +buy except through Bard.)
* Ending the game by buying a Curse.
* The only time I've played where someone used a Fate card to get specific Boons often.
* Final score was 51 to 50 VP. He started with a big lead, which got bigger, then I gradually gained on him, winning with 1 VP.

His strat was to buy all the Tunnels he could straight away! He got all 12 VP from Battlefield, plus I think all the Tunnels - 16 VP. Then he pretty much always had at least one Tunnel to discard to my Catapulting, giving him something like 15 Golds after a while. He also got the "discard 3 for a Gold" Boon from Bard, with 2 Tunnels in hand, giving him 3 Golds at once. With all the Tunnels and the Curses from me, his deck was still not great, but he managed to buy, I guess, 5 Provinces by the time the game ended. He had a Bard and also a few Cursed Villages which sometimes let him draw up after my discard-attack.

I went for Vineyards, gaining Action cards through Pilgrimage, and trashing with Catapult and Apprentice. City Quarter was of course my engine. After a while I was unnecessarily making around $8 to $10 each turn (but of course could absolutely not buy a Province), and the problem is that if you buy Pilgrimage, you can't buy Vineyard. Therefore I was cycling through 4 Bards each turn, getting +1 Buy three or four times in the game, and also picking up 4 Wisps in the end. I also had to slow him down through Cursing, so I had to gain cards for Catapult, I gained Silver and even Gold from Boons just to trash them, but I also had to trash some of the Catapults I was gaining.

He denied me the last Vineyard, so then I Catapulted the Potion, giving him the 9th Curse. I was up to 7 VP per Vineyard and 52 VP, and bought the last Curse.

I don't think a big money approach could have won here against me, because I would discard-attack and curse you pretty good. Big money against him I'm not so sure about. You would have to refrain from discard-attacking and let him drown in his Tunnels, but it's still a 28 VP initial lead to overcome, and you're not really trashing down efficiently to get to your Silvers and Golds.

JW

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Re: One of the greatest 2 player games ever
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2018, 06:21:59 pm »
+1

(Tunnel great with Battlefield, but no voluntary discarding, only from opponent's Catapult. Vineyard great with Pilgrimage, but no +buy except through Bard.)

From Bard, Sky's Gift and Wind's Gift let you discard Tunnels from hand, and Sun's Gift lets you discard from the top of deck. In addition, Golem can discard your Tunnels. Playing the moneyish strategy against the Vineyards strategy, I'd go much lighter on Tunnels than your opponent did but get Golem and Secret Passage to accompany them, and then Apprentice to make use of the Golds. Opening Tunnel seems terrible even against double Catapult since an opponent with Catapult can prioritize trashing Estates as well as using Apprentice to trash Coppers.
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Jeebus

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Re: One of the greatest 2 player games ever
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2018, 07:30:49 pm »
0

(Tunnel great with Battlefield, but no voluntary discarding, only from opponent's Catapult. Vineyard great with Pilgrimage, but no +buy except through Bard.)

From Bard, Sky's Gift and Wind's Gift let you discard Tunnels from hand, and Sun's Gift lets you discard from the top of deck. In addition, Golem can discard your Tunnels. Playing the moneyish strategy against the Vineyards strategy, I'd go much lighter on Tunnels than your opponent did but get Golem and Secret Passage to accompany them, and then Apprentice to make use of the Golds. Opening Tunnel seems terrible even against double Catapult since an opponent with Catapult can prioritize trashing Estates as well as using Apprentice to trash Coppers.

Good points. The problem with a deck full of Treasure and Tunnels is that you're not going to get to your Action cards very often. But if you combine Tunnel/Bard/Apprentice with thinning, as you say, you might be on to something. At that point though, you might also want Cursed Village and/or City Quarter to be able to play more Bards? (And Cursed Villages will be good because of the opponent's discard attack, which won't help you that much with just a few Tunnels.) Then you're getting closer to my strategy, and I wonder if Vineyards isn't going to be better than Provinces.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2018, 07:33:14 pm by Jeebus »
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terminalCopper

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Re: One of the greatest 2 player games ever
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2018, 12:04:12 pm »
0

Interesting game, thx for sharing :)

* Final score was 51 to 50 VP. He started with a big lead, which got bigger, then I gradually gained on him, winning with 1 VP.

The small difference of points is probably be misleading; I think the engine strategy is better, and itís not even close. From a strategic point of you, youíre way ahead, because your opponent would need two dead turns swallowing -2 points to end the game; meanwhile, your engine can score.

In general, in a nonmirror Slog/BM vs. Engine, it is a huge advantage that the engine player has more control to determine when the game ends.
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Dingan

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Re: One of the greatest 2 player games ever
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2018, 03:51:16 pm »
0

I remember all the cards except one
Rocks  :P

I wonder if the engine player would have time to set up a many-Bard-per-turn thing. So like if you could play 8 of them per turn or something then you could usually have +Buy for Vineyard+Pilgrimage, plus a Wisp thrown in for good measure. You can always not Curse him too if 3 piling is bad.
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Jeebus

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Re: One of the greatest 2 player games ever
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2018, 04:08:13 pm »
0

I wonder if the engine player would have time to set up a many-Bard-per-turn thing. So like if you could play 8 of them per turn or something then you could usually have +Buy for Vineyard+Pilgrimage, plus a Wisp thrown in for good measure. You can always not Curse him too if 3 piling is bad.

I really don't think so. It's hard to gain that many cards fast with no native +buy. And without Cursing he will have more VP and also a better deck and empty the provinces faster. The one thing I should have done differently was to not use my Catapult on Copper in the beginning, like JW said. I should have used the Apprentice to trash Copper (although that sucks more than using it on Estate), and then only used Catapult to give Curses later.
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