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[Awaclus]

So, to simplify: If you're pretenting, that implies that you are scum. Evidence suggests that you are pretending.

If I'm pretending, that doesn't imply that I'm scum because I'm equally likely to do it as town.

I have claimed that this statement isn't true, since town!you would not benefit from advocating a suboptimal plan. So you cannot counter e's accusation with it.

Then scum!me would not benefit from it either, which makes e's accusation pointless to begin with.

[faust]

So, to simplify: If you're pretenting, that implies that you are scum. Evidence suggests that you are pretending.

If I'm pretending, that doesn't imply that I'm scum because I'm equally likely to do it as town.

I have claimed that this statement isn't true, since town!you would not benefit from advocating a suboptimal plan. So you cannot counter e's accusation with it.

Then scum!me would not benefit from it either, which makes e's accusation pointless to begin with.

Yes, scum!you would benefit. But the town as a whole and therefore town!you would not.

[Awaclus]

Yes, scum!you would benefit. But the town as a whole and therefore town!you would not.

If I'm townread, then town as a whole benefits from that.

[faust]

Yes, scum!you would benefit. But the town as a whole and therefore town!you would not.

If I'm townread, then town as a whole benefits from that.

Not at the expense of implementing a suboptimal plan.

[Awaclus]

Yes, scum!you would benefit. But the town as a whole and therefore town!you would not.

If I'm townread, then town as a whole benefits from that.

Not at the expense of implementing a suboptimal plan.

Your argument is that I'm not really trying to implement the plan because I know that it's not going to go through. You can't say that while making that argument.

[faust]

Yes, scum!you would benefit. But the town as a whole and therefore town!you would not.

If I'm townread, then town as a whole benefits from that.

Not at the expense of implementing a suboptimal plan.

Your argument is that I'm not really trying to implement the plan because I know that it's not going to go through. You can't say that while making that argument.

1. The only thing I have done here is uncovered a logical flaw in your answer to e's accusation. What arguments I make about your alignment does not matter at all for this.
2. You are misrepresenting my argument anyway. I am not saying you know this, obviously such things can never be known for sure. I'm saying you don't care if you're scum, but you would care if you're town.

[Awaclus]

Yes, scum!you would benefit. But the town as a whole and therefore town!you would not.

If I'm townread, then town as a whole benefits from that.

Not at the expense of implementing a suboptimal plan.

Your argument is that I'm not really trying to implement the plan because I know that it's not going to go through. You can't say that while making that argument.

1. The only thing I have done here is uncovered a logical flaw in your answer to e's accusation. What arguments I make about your alignment does not matter at all for this.
2. You are misrepresenting my argument anyway. I am not saying you know this, obviously such things can never be known for sure. I'm saying you don't care if you're scum, but you would care if you're town.

1) There is no logical flaw in my answer to e's accusation. e is saying that I'm scum because I'm just doing this for the towncred. That's a non-sequitur, because it is also in town's best interests to do things for the towncred. Pointing out that a non-sequitur is a non-sequitur is not a logical flaw.

2) I'm not misrepresenting your argument, you're backpedaling. You literally said that I know this.

Awaclus knows this.

[SpaceAnemone]

Survey time!

People who are not faust or Awaclus: do you think their discussion is alignment-indicative for:
a) Awaclus
b) Both
f) faust
n) Neither?

Bonus question
Are you reading their discussion for:
d) Detailed following of the logical arguments
g) Gist/tone
v) all of the aboVe
z) You fell asleep already.

[Robz888]

Survey time!

People who are not faust or Awaclus: do you think their discussion is alignment-indicative for:
a) Awaclus
b) Both
f) faust
n) Neither?

Bonus question
Are you reading their discussion for:
d) Detailed following of the logical arguments
g) Gist/tone
v) all of the aboVe
z) You fell asleep already.

I think Awaclus is wrong, but he could be wrong as town, and faust could be calling him out as scum. Unfortunately.

I'm mostly skimming now because faust is right and Awaclus is wrong.

[Awaclus]

I'm mostly skimming now because faust is right and Awaclus is wrong.

How is faust right? He isn't even being consistent with his own argument.

[iguanaiguana]

Vote Count 1.3

Xxraptorslayer96 (1): Hydrad
Hydrad (1): Jimmmmm
Robz888 (1): schadd
Awaclus (3): faust, SpaceAnemone, 2.71828...
Pingpongsam (2): Robz888, Xxraptorslayer96
faust (1): Awaclus
2.71828... (1): Witherweaver

Not Voting (3): pingpongsam, DatSwan, Cuzz

With 13 alive, i takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 lasts until Friday April 11 at 9 PM

*edited for correction reflecting pps at 2 votes

[2.71828.....]

It has been busy at work, I will get around to posting later

[Hydrad]

Survey time!

People who are not faust or Awaclus: do you think their discussion is alignment-indicative for:
a) Awaclus
b) Both
f) faust
n) Neither?

Bonus question
Are you reading their discussion for:
d) Detailed following of the logical arguments
g) Gist/tone
v) all of the aboVe
z) You fell asleep already.

1n

2g.

But at this point I don't think either is gaining ground. I wouldn't even say one is even wrong. But neither of them will probably change their mind so I don't think its going to make any progress.

[SpaceAnemone]

@Swan, schadd and Cuzz, would you three like to weigh in on the survey? I think you're all getting proddable at this point!

[pingpongsam]

1.f

2.g

[Cuzz]

@Swan, schadd and Cuzz, would you three like to weigh in on the survey? I think you're all getting proddable at this point!

N, Z

Also your survey labeling system is delightful.

[Jimmmmm]

Possibly f but probably n.

z

[Swowl]

@Swan, schadd and Cuzz, would you three like to weigh in on the survey? I think you're all getting proddable at this point!

sure!
I think that it is NAI for Faust in the sense that it happens all the time in Faust early game - so whatever.
I think it is AI for Awaclus in the sense that... well literally the exact opposite reason as Faust. And I have no idea which alignment it indicates.

Don't know which option from the bottom to put. I was reading to try and gain a feel of if the convo felt forced and/or if anything was "obv overlooked" or "incorrect".

IMO this is either TvT or SvT, but not SvS.... and I have no clue who would be more likely to be skum if it is SvT (I guess I would have to go Awaclus), but I actually just am going to wait for a later point in the game and "chalk it up" to the equivalent of NAI behavior on both sides for now.

[Swowl]

also regarding the PPS claim thing -
I do not really get what PPS would gain out of this as either Town or Skum.

Someone point out what I am missing? Why is it skummy? - I mean I see no reason to claim last pick and not VIG without any reason to on day 1 like this... but pretty much because I cant find a town motivation that is like the only reason it is skummy?

am i missing something?

[faust]

also regarding the PPS claim thing -
I do not really get what PPS would gain out of this as either Town or Skum.

What he gets out of it is the excitement of claiming something. That's all PPS really needs.

[Witherweaver]

I think it is AI for Awaclus in the sense that... well literally the exact opposite reason as Faust. And I have no idea which alignment it indicates.

I'm pretty sure that being alignment indicative with no idea which alignment it indicates is the same as it not being alignment indicative.

[Swowl]

also regarding the PPS claim thing -
I do not really get what PPS would gain out of this as either Town or Skum.

What he gets out of it is the excitement of claiming something. That's all PPS really needs.

so I can't tell if this is a joke or not lol

[Swowl]

I think it is AI for Awaclus in the sense that... well literally the exact opposite reason as Faust. And I have no idea which alignment it indicates.

I'm pretty sure that being alignment indicative with no idea which alignment it indicates is the same as it not being alignment indicative.

I mean that is kind of where I ended at in the post

Just wanted my thought process to be noted in case I come up with some realization or something down the road.

[Swowl]

MOD - VC 1.3 is incorrect. All votes are in the right place but PPS is only at a count of (1)

[faust]

also regarding the PPS claim thing -
I do not really get what PPS would gain out of this as either Town or Skum.

What he gets out of it is the excitement of claiming something. That's all PPS really needs.

so I can't tell if this is a joke or not lol

It' tongue-in-cheek, but really PPS is well-known for making all sorts of unnecessary claims as either alignment. When I was scum with him, he was positively obsessed about what to claim when.