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Author Topic: Mafia 116: The Magicians Mafia (TOWN WINS!)  (Read 77637 times)

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SpaceAnemone

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Re: Mafia 116: The Magicians Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #150 on: May 07, 2018, 07:45:55 am »

Plan A(waclus): claim drafting order now. Get 100% correct ordering, out our PRs without knowing where in the order any individual scum comes because they could have permuted their numbers. Go into D2 likely to be one strong PR down, another one blocked etc.

Plan B: Hold off on claiming. Lose 1-2 townies probably, hold a claim on D2 instead. Get useful PR results at night. Maybe only lose a VT. Town tells the truth about their draft order, scum permutes again. Do they risk trying to guess what slot the missing townie has? Probably depends on where in the order they claim and how much they want to gamble, but it's a risky thing. And we have a D1's-worth of scumreads to help us make a claiming order to put the scummier-looking people at the top, thereby decreasing their chances of guessing the slot of a dead townie. All in all, we're likely to get the same claiming order as D1, but with a lower likelihood of loss of key PRs over VTs.

Of course, we don't even have to claim on D2. All we have to agree is that Plan B is stronger than Plan A, and we're good to get on with normal D1 accusations and stuff instead of this notion that we should claim.
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Hydrad

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Re: Mafia 116: The Magicians Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #151 on: May 07, 2018, 08:16:04 am »

Ok. I've been swayed. I think I'm against claiming now
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Re: Mafia 116: The Magicians Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #152 on: May 07, 2018, 08:46:29 am »

Have we decided not to claim yet? Thank you space for clearly laying it out.

Advocating for a D1 claim is usually something that will generate an automatic D1 pass from me, but even more generally I think we do not tend to lynch those who come out with bold crazy plans (whether it inflates post count, activity, etc we tend to find them townie enough not to lynch D1).  I think that is manipulatable and awaclus knows it.

Vote: Awaclus
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Witherweaver

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Re: Mafia 116: The Magicians Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #153 on: May 07, 2018, 08:47:56 am »

He is not trying to convince anyone. If you read his posts, you can see that he is not even trying to present coherent arguments.

Because it's obvious that claiming draft order is good for town. We have a chance to give scum less control over the game, of course we take it.
You're actually increasing scum control if you let them know which people are good nightkills. That this is outweighed by the additional limitations on fakeclaiming is not obvious at all.

I totally agree with faust on this, and it's getting tiresome that Awaclus is sidestepping addressing the major downside with his "plan".

Vote: Awaclus

Awaclus getting tiresome is, like, completely independent from his alignment.
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faust

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Re: Mafia 116: The Magicians Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #154 on: May 07, 2018, 09:01:44 am »

He is not trying to convince anyone. If you read his posts, you can see that he is not even trying to present coherent arguments.

Because it's obvious that claiming draft order is good for town. We have a chance to give scum less control over the game, of course we take it.
You're actually increasing scum control if you let them know which people are good nightkills. That this is outweighed by the additional limitations on fakeclaiming is not obvious at all.

I totally agree with faust on this, and it's getting tiresome that Awaclus is sidestepping addressing the major downside with his "plan".

Vote: Awaclus

Awaclus getting tiresome is, like, completely independent from his alignment.
Usually he's getting tiresome for different reasons though!
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Witherweaver

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Re: Mafia 116: The Magicians Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #155 on: May 07, 2018, 09:02:56 am »

He is not trying to convince anyone. If you read his posts, you can see that he is not even trying to present coherent arguments.

Because it's obvious that claiming draft order is good for town. We have a chance to give scum less control over the game, of course we take it.
You're actually increasing scum control if you let them know which people are good nightkills. That this is outweighed by the additional limitations on fakeclaiming is not obvious at all.

I totally agree with faust on this, and it's getting tiresome that Awaclus is sidestepping addressing the major downside with his "plan".

Vote: Awaclus

Awaclus getting tiresome is, like, completely independent from his alignment.
Usually he's getting tiresome for different reasons though!

I stopped looking for reasons long ago.
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Awaclus

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Re: Mafia 116: The Magicians Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #156 on: May 07, 2018, 09:28:28 am »

I think that is manipulatable and awaclus knows it.

That isn't a reason to think that I'm scum. Even if I wasn't really advocating for this plan (which I am), I would benefit from manipulating that as both alignments.
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SpaceAnemone

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Re: Mafia 116: The Magicians Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #157 on: May 07, 2018, 10:02:54 am »

You're actually increasing scum control if you let them know which people are good nightkills. That this is outweighed by the additional limitations on fakeclaiming is not obvious at all.

I totally agree with faust on this, and it's getting tiresome that Awaclus is sidestepping addressing the major downside with his "plan".

Vote: Awaclus

Awaclus getting tiresome is, like, completely independent from his alignment.
Usually he's getting tiresome for different reasons though!

This is true too. Usually Awaclus is all about how nobody should explain themselves/their votes/why to vote in a particular way in mafia. I don't see his interest in claims and rationing out information as something that's exactly opposed to his usual stance, but it's definitely a departure from usual town-Awaclus.

Maybe he's trying to mix things up because he's townie and realises he needs an additional string to his bow. Maybe he's scum Awaclus being bold in a way he doesn't realise doesn't sound like tedious!town!Awaclus. I think he does get a little more bold as scum sometimes, but someone who's more of a previous-game-geek should weigh in on that one.
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Hydrad

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Re: Mafia 116: The Magicians Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #158 on: May 07, 2018, 10:07:28 am »

You're actually increasing scum control if you let them know which people are good nightkills. That this is outweighed by the additional limitations on fakeclaiming is not obvious at all.

I totally agree with faust on this, and it's getting tiresome that Awaclus is sidestepping addressing the major downside with his "plan".

Vote: Awaclus

Awaclus getting tiresome is, like, completely independent from his alignment.
Usually he's getting tiresome for different reasons though!

This is true too. Usually Awaclus is all about how nobody should explain themselves/their votes/why to vote in a particular way in mafia. I don't see his interest in claims and rationing out information as something that's exactly opposed to his usual stance, but it's definitely a departure from usual town-Awaclus.

Maybe he's trying to mix things up because he's townie and realises he needs an additional string to his bow. Maybe he's scum Awaclus being bold in a way he doesn't realise doesn't sound like tedious!town!Awaclus. I think he does get a little more bold as scum sometimes, but someone who's more of a previous-game-geek should weigh in on that one.

Something about this post I don't like. I can't quite put my finger on it though.

+1 scum point for you.
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faust

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Re: Mafia 116: The Magicians Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #159 on: May 07, 2018, 10:08:41 am »

I think that is manipulatable and awaclus knows it.

That isn't a reason to think that I'm scum. Even if I wasn't really advocating for this plan (which I am), I would benefit from manipulating that as both alignments.
But would town benefit if you pushed through a plan that you don't actually believe is beneficial?
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Awaclus

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Re: Mafia 116: The Magicians Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #160 on: May 07, 2018, 10:09:56 am »

I don't see his interest in claims and rationing out information as something that's exactly opposed to his usual stance, but it's definitely a departure from usual town-Awaclus.

It isn't a departure. I'm always all about making the decisions that give town a concrete advantage, as opposed to the pseudo-psychology thing that you're doing right now.
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Awaclus

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Re: Mafia 116: The Magicians Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #161 on: May 07, 2018, 10:12:19 am »

But would town benefit if you pushed through a plan that you don't actually believe is beneficial?

But seriously all this talk is pointless since we're almost certainly not going to do any claims. Awaclus knows this. He is not trying to convince anyone.

I can't be pushing through a plan while not trying to convince anyone.
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Awaclus

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Re: Mafia 116: The Magicians Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #162 on: May 07, 2018, 10:12:32 am »

Vote: faust actually
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SpaceAnemone

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Re: Mafia 116: The Magicians Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #163 on: May 07, 2018, 10:18:06 am »

I don't see his interest in claims and rationing out information as something that's exactly opposed to his usual stance, but it's definitely a departure from usual town-Awaclus.

It isn't a departure. I'm always all about making the decisions that give town a concrete advantage, as opposed to the pseudo-psychology thing that you're doing right now.

Show me where in my Plan A/Plan B outline above you think your version is "logical" and my is "pseudo-psychology".

My normal problem here is too much logic and not enough understanding of people being people, so even saying that I look like I think I get people is kind of neat, in a twisted way :-)
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SpaceAnemone

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Re: Mafia 116: The Magicians Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #164 on: May 07, 2018, 10:31:31 am »

This is true too. Usually Awaclus is all about how nobody should explain themselves/their votes/why to vote in a particular way in mafia. I don't see his interest in claims and rationing out information as something that's exactly opposed to his usual stance, but it's definitely a departure from usual town-Awaclus.

Maybe he's trying to mix things up because he's townie and realises he needs an additional string to his bow. Maybe he's scum Awaclus being bold in a way he doesn't realise doesn't sound like tedious!town!Awaclus. I think he does get a little more bold as scum sometimes, but someone who's more of a previous-game-geek should weigh in on that one.

Something about this post I don't like. I can't quite put my finger on it though.

+1 scum point for you.

Hi, I'm Space! I don't think we've actually played together in a completed game. People here often think I sound weird or self-conscious or too concerned with mechanics or something and then they lynch me. It's also possible that I sound "hedgey" in that post because I consider two possible sides rather than arbitrarily picking the first interpretation that flies into my head and arguing it. This is how my brain processes stuff, and is not alignment-indicative. Ask any of the people who scumread me almost every game... e and Robz are the two main culprits who come to mind.
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SpaceAnemone

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Re: Mafia 116: The Magicians Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #165 on: May 07, 2018, 10:34:50 am »

Does the rest of Europe/elsewhere in the world have a holiday today? I was going to take a look at who's talking lots vs little and stuff, then decided it wasn't fair to do it that way given that it's a bank holiday weekend with super-amazing-fantastic weather, then realised that maybe it's not for any other players :-P

Anyway, given that it's a holiday, I'm off to cycle up the river and have a swim now :-)
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Robz888

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Re: Mafia 116: The Magicians Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #166 on: May 07, 2018, 10:39:43 am »

I think Space already covered this but at a minimum we should delay the draft order claim until Day 2. We might have an Innocent Child by then.
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faust

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Re: Mafia 116: The Magicians Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #167 on: May 07, 2018, 10:41:54 am »

But would town benefit if you pushed through a plan that you don't actually believe is beneficial?

But seriously all this talk is pointless since we're almost certainly not going to do any claims. Awaclus knows this. He is not trying to convince anyone.

I can't be pushing through a plan while not trying to convince anyone.
I am confused. In your view, what exactly is it you are doing with regards to the plan to claim? I assumed that at least you yourself would say that you are trying to convince other people of it. Is that not the case?
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faust

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Re: Mafia 116: The Magicians Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #168 on: May 07, 2018, 10:46:06 am »

Does the rest of Europe/elsewhere in the world have a holiday today? I was going to take a look at who's talking lots vs little and stuff, then decided it wasn't fair to do it that way given that it's a bank holiday weekend with super-amazing-fantastic weather, then realised that maybe it's not for any other players :-P

Anyway, given that it's a holiday, I'm off to cycle up the river and have a swim now :-)
I don't have a holiday, but I will on Thursday (Ascension Day).
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Awaclus

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Re: Mafia 116: The Magicians Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #169 on: May 07, 2018, 10:48:23 am »

Show me where in my Plan A/Plan B outline above you think your version is "logical" and my is "pseudo-psychology".

Nowhere, that post is fine. The pseudo-psychology kicks in when you think you can know my alignment based on how "bold" or "tedious" I am.
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Re: Mafia 116: The Magicians Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #170 on: May 07, 2018, 10:55:24 am »

No, I agree with Hydrad. Something is amiss with Space. The overly polite attempt to patch that up is even fishier. Also feeling suspicious of faust for reasons I’d rather not outline today. No sense killing him D1 anyhow when scum does that for us at night. Not seeing how Awaclus is at all a good lynch. Mildly suspicious of someone else I’d rather not name atm but want to reread a bit and also not just let scum know where I stand entirely.

Pretty sure the scum team will put themselves before the end of D2.
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Re: Mafia 116: The Magicians Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #171 on: May 07, 2018, 10:55:40 am »

Out not put.
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Re: Mafia 116: The Magicians Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #172 on: May 07, 2018, 11:11:33 am »

Space is very much behaving like their normal self. Not saying there's something super townie about them, but the case that our hedgemasters Hydrad and PPS suggest is not there.
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Re: Mafia 116: The Magicians Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #173 on: May 07, 2018, 11:12:58 am »

I think space is town
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Re: Mafia 116: The Magicians Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #174 on: May 07, 2018, 11:13:01 am »

their normal self
Reading this again a suddenly became very confused about whether this should read "their normal self" or "their normal selves".
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