Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[schadd]

hydrad + ww kindatown

[Swowl]

I feel like just claiming draft order will result in the same thing?

I don't see scum lying about draft order because if they say the same number as someone else we can pick between them to lynch.

That's actually true. Let's just claim draft order.

I don't get this post. We of course will learn something. The same way like every pick your power game goes... it will come to a claim and at that point forcing a previous position claim will help verify results.

No one has any reason to lie about draft order, which is why we don't learn anything from claiming it.

[Swowl]

I feel like just claiming draft order will result in the same thing?

I don't see scum lying about draft order because if they say the same number as someone else we can pick between them to lynch.

That's actually true. Let's just claim draft order.

I don't get this post. We of course will learn something. The same way like every pick your power game goes... it will come to a claim and at that point forcing a previous position claim will help verify results.

No one has any reason to lie about draft order, which is why we don't learn anything from claiming it.

I don't get this post. We of course will learn something. The same way like every pick your power game goes... it will come to a claim and at that point forcing a previous position claim will help verify results.
 ***fixed***

[Swowl]

@Awaclus, what's to stop scum claiming each other's slots in this plan you're promoting?

Nothing. It's still better than nothing.

Why does it matter? Lets say Skum A claims the role of Skum B,  and then we kill Skum B... we still kill Skum. In what world would a plan where the only downside is "killing the wrong skum" be a bad option? I am not saying that that is the only downside, just basing it on the quoted interaction.

[Swowl]

@Awaclus, what's to stop scum claiming each other's slots in this plan you're promoting?

Nothing. It's still better than nothing.

Why does it matter? Lets say Skum A claims the role of Skum B,  and then we kill Skum B... we still kill Skum. In what world would a plan where the only downside is "killing the wrong skum" be a bad option? I am not saying that that is the only downside, just basing it on the quoted interaction.

This was horribly written, but you all get it and I am going to bed

[faust]

@Awaclus, what's to stop scum claiming each other's slots in this plan you're promoting?

Nothing. It's still better than nothing.

Why does it matter? Lets say Skum A claims the role of Skum B,  and then we kill Skum B... we still kill Skum. In what world would a plan where the only downside is "killing the wrong skum" be a bad option? I am not saying that that is the only downside, just basing it on the quoted interaction.

The problem is that the objective of the plan is not to lynch scum, it is to reduce fakelclaiming options for them.

[Awaclus]

Fakeclaiming options are super important for scum.

[faust]

But seriously all this talk is pointless since we're almost certainly not going to do any claims. Awaclus knows this. He is not trying to convince anyone. If you read his posts, you can see that he is not even trying to present coherent arguments. Instead what has happened is that scum!Awaclus has seen this as an opportunity to ramp up his activity level without breaking his meta of not discussing reads.

[Awaclus]

But seriously all this talk is pointless since we're almost certainly not going to do any claims.

We're certainly going to do claims.

He is not trying to convince anyone. If you read his posts, you can see that he is not even trying to present coherent arguments.

Because it's obvious that claiming draft order is good for town. We have a chance to give scum less control over the game, of course we take it.

[Hydrad]

I'm kinda with awaclus on this one. I like claiming draft order (as I think I've said a few times) and think its useful for us.

But really I just kinda wish we can pick an option and go with it to move on. but at the same time its day1 so not a lot to go on so I guess this discussion is better then nothing.

[Swowl]

I'm kinda with awaclus on this one. I like claiming draft order (as I think I've said a few times) and think its useful for us.

But really I just kinda wish we can pick an option and go with it to move on. but at the same time its day1 so not a lot to go on so I guess this discussion is better then nothing.

I lied. I hate sleep.

Here is something to discuss:
Assuming we went with the option of claiming draft order - How would we decide on the order to claim your draft position at this point in the game? Would it be random? Does someone have an idea in mind as of how to construct the order of events?

I am assuming not - but I will ask anyways.

[Swowl]

I'm kinda with awaclus on this one. I like claiming draft order (as I think I've said a few times) and think its useful for us.

But really I just kinda wish we can pick an option and go with it to move on. but at the same time its day1 so not a lot to go on so I guess this discussion is better then nothing.

I lied. I hate sleep.

Here is something to discuss:
Assuming we went with the option of claiming draft order - How would we decide on the order to claim your draft position at this point in the game? Would it be random? Does someone have an idea in mind as of how to construct the order of events?

I am assuming not - but I will ask anyways.

Actually lets make it direct since you seem talkative:

@ Awaclus - Hypothetical situation: Everyone agrees with you. What should the claim order be?

[Awaclus]

@ Awaclus - Hypothetical situation: Everyone agrees with you. What should the claim order be?

It should be the sign up order, as we don't have an IC.

[faust]

@ Awaclus - Hypothetical situation: Everyone agrees with you. What should the claim order be?

It should be the sign up order, as we don't have an IC.

That does not matter at all.

[faust]

He is not trying to convince anyone. If you read his posts, you can see that he is not even trying to present coherent arguments.

Because it's obvious that claiming draft order is good for town. We have a chance to give scum less control over the game, of course we take it.

You're actually increasing scum control if you let them know which people are good nightkills. That this is outweighed by the additional limitations on fakeclaiming is not obvious at all.

[Awaclus]

You're actually increasing scum control if you let them know which people are good nightkills. That this is outweighed by the additional limitations on fakeclaiming is not obvious at all.

It doesn't automatically let scum know which people are good nightkills. Some of the roles are super bad NKs.

[faust]

You're actually increasing scum control if you let them know which people are good nightkills. That this is outweighed by the additional limitations on fakeclaiming is not obvious at all.

It doesn't automatically let scum know which people are good nightkills. Some of the roles are super bad NKs.

From what I can see, there are 2 PRs that would be bad targets for scum, neither of which should be high on town's priority list.

[pingpongsam]

Considering I have already claimed, I could produce a claim order. I hereby decree it should be the sign up order!

[SpaceAnemone]

He is not trying to convince anyone. If you read his posts, you can see that he is not even trying to present coherent arguments.

Because it's obvious that claiming draft order is good for town. We have a chance to give scum less control over the game, of course we take it.

You're actually increasing scum control if you let them know which people are good nightkills. That this is outweighed by the additional limitations on fakeclaiming is not obvious at all.

I totally agree with faust on this, and it's getting tiresome that Awaclus is sidestepping addressing the major downside with his "plan".

Vote: Awaclus

[SpaceAnemone]

I think it would be good to have a reminder of what recent-ish games ran on a draft scheme like this, and who played in which games.. I don't suppose anyone has already compiles such a list, have they?

[Jimmmmm]

Townread on both PPS and Robz.

[SpaceAnemone]

Scum most certainly does have a reason to lie, because a scummy-seeming person low down in draft order end up less likely to be a top lynch target than one who's high in the draft order and might hold a valuable PR. And if that's not exactly how people are proposing to use the claim then why else is it so powerful that we need to do it at the expense of town PRs?

Ya this is the part where awaclus's idea of also claiming what you put on the test changes that so the scum can't swap numbers

As I noted earlier, scum can very easily have swapped all their answers N0 in their QT. That's exactly how I would have played it as scum here, and I'm sure I'm not the only one, especially now that there have been a number of these draft-type games run here.

I agree that the ability to use the drafting answers is strong -- I've proposed using exactly that in previous games, and spend a lot of time trying to persuade previous towns to maximise in-game info by doing just that. This is not some special new plan that Awaclus has come up with for this game: he's recycling parts of previous plans that people like me have pushed in previous drafting games, but he seems to have zero sensitivity for context and cost here.

[Jimmmmm]

Because it's obvious that claiming draft order is good for town. We have a chance to give scum less control over the game, of course we take it.

I'm not seeing it. Isn't outing our (likely) PRs giving scum more control?

[Awaclus]

From what I can see, there are 2 PRs that would be bad targets for scum, neither of which should be high on town's priority list.

They could be.

I totally agree with faust on this, and it's getting tiresome that Awaclus is sidestepping addressing the major downside with his "plan".

I have addressed it. It isn't a major downside.

I'm not seeing it. Isn't outing our (likely) PRs giving scum more control?

No, because scum doesn't know what PRs they are. After #1, they don't even know whether it's a PR or not, and it's possible scum themselves have #1, in which case we out nobody. If scum gets to fakeclaim however they choose, that's a lot more control they will have in the end game.

[Jimmmmm]

From what I can see, there are 2 PRs that would be bad targets for scum, neither of which should be high on town's priority list.

They could be.

I totally agree with faust on this, and it's getting tiresome that Awaclus is sidestepping addressing the major downside with his "plan".

I have addressed it. It isn't a major downside.

I'm not seeing it. Isn't outing our (likely) PRs giving scum more control?

No, because scum doesn't know what PRs they are. After #1, they don't even know whether it's a PR or not, and it's possible scum themselves have #1, in which case we out nobody. If scum gets to fakeclaim however they choose, that's a lot more control they will have in the end game.

Sure, it potentially doesn't give them a lot of definite information. But certainly the first few Townies in the draft are much more likely to have PRs than the last few.

Ultimately I think the things we definitely don't want are some people claiming and some not, or spending most of Day 1 arguing about it. So while I'm not convinced claiming Day 1 is good for Town, if enough people do we should just get it over with.