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[mcmcsalot]

Welcome to Mafia 116: The Magicians Mafia

Mod: Mcmcsalot
Co-Mod: iguanaiguana


Hello and welcome! I am Dean Fogg, Principal of Breakbills University and below I have posted a signup sheet for your enrollment in the Mafia 116 course based on the Pick Your Power curriculum, an open, modified version of the curriculum used in Mafia 108 and Mafia 100. Please confirm below that you would like to participate and you will be added to the signup sheet.

Helping me teach this class is the only professor left I can trust Professor Mayakovsky though it appears a scorned lover has turned him into an iguana.


Class List:
1: Robz888
2: 2.71828.....
3: Jimmmmm lynched day 2: mafia tracker
4: Hydrad
5: pingpongsam
6: datswan
7: Xxraptorslayer96 lynched day 1: vanilla townie
8: Witherweaver killed night 2: vanilla townie
9: schadd idontplaythisgame
10: Cuzz
11: Awaclus
12: Faust killed night 1: ninja townie
13: SpaceAnemonie

Spectators Tagged: Joseph2302, gkrieg13

Day Start/Ends:


As you may have noticed Magic is gone, and with no way to defend ourselves various evil beings have invaded the school posing as students and are looking to kill us all. Luckily there are still some various ways of obtaining magical abilities to aid us in this fight. However only ONE person can gain magical abilities from each of these ways.

So before we can start selecting ways to attain magical abilities you will all undergo an Exam composed of two parts, a written exam, and a demonstration. Once that is done you will be ranked based on your performance and be given an opportunity to select a magical power. I want to state no cheating will be allowed during any portion of this process each and every one of you must privately submit your selection to me and if I see anyone working together you will be expelled immediately.



Rules:

This is a game. Everyone who signs up to play must be considerate of each other, never get personal, and focus on having fun. Once the game starts, having signed up is a commitment: inactivity is just as inconsiderate as rude comments. All players must have read, understood, and agreed to the Civility Pledge.

- No communication between players outside of the game thread or shared QTs at any time. This includes passing references, jokes, or cases in other games or threads, whether in context or not.
- If the game thread is locked, do not post. If you are unsure if something is locked, ask the mod by PM.
- Direct or verbatim quoting of mod-provided information is strictly forbidden. Paraphrasing is okay.
- Players must post once every 24-48 hours unless they have an announced V/LA. We are less strict about this than other mods, but please, if you agree to play the game, please play the game.
- Do not edit or delete posts, ever. If you need to clarify or correct something, post again.
- Invisible text, font size less than 10, and spoiler tags are not allowed. Do not use the same font colors as the mods.
- Cryptography is not allowed, which includes coded breadcrumbs. We are more strict about this than other mods. See this post for examples of things I consider to be cryptography. If you are trying to set up some kind of code, it's probably illegal, and you should ask me first.
- The time between a lynch being reached and a flip being provided is called twilight. All players may continue posting during this time, including the lynched player.
- Dead players may not post in thread or QT. A lynched player is not "dead" until a flip has been provided.
- Personal multimedia, such as video or audio recordings, are not allowed in the game thread.

The Voting Rules:
- Votes should be in this format: Vote: Playername. Votes must be bolded, must contain a colon, and there must be space between the colon and the player's name. Improperly formatted votes may or may not be counted, based on mod disrection. Unambiguous nicknames are acceptable.
- Unvotes should be in this format: unvote or Unvote: Playername.
- Unvotes are not required if changing your vote from oneplayer to another.
- You may vote: no lynch.
- Lynches occur when a simple majority (rounded up) of living players is reached. Once reached, a lynch cannot be undone.

The Rest:
- If you have an issue or problem with the game, please PM the mods. Do not post complaints in the game thread.
- Mods make mistakes - please point them out gently. If they can be corrected, they will. If irreversible, they will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
- Ask all questions and make all requests directly to the Mod via QT or PM. Questions deemed as "universal" (defined as questions for which the answers should be available to all players) will be requested to be re-posted in the Game Thread and answered there.
- Prods will be issued by request after 24-48 hours of inactivity unless otherwised covered by a VLA. Players are subject to replacement or modkill upon the third prod request.
- All rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, as determined by the mod.

Deadlines:
- Days will last seven IRL days.
- Nights will generally last two IRL days, but might in certain cases last longer.

[mcmcsalot]

Setup

This game includes 10 Town-aligned Students and 3 Mafia-aligned Evil Beings.

-- All players will engage in a draft ordering process (as in Mafias 40, 100, and 108). The method will not be explained ahead of time. The mafia team will NOT be permitted to talk and collude at ANY stage of the drafting process, including the selection phase. They will however be told the draft position of there teammates in order to appropriately guess at what powers they should go for.

-- Afterward, players will bid on power roles, which have been organized into slots. If multiple players bid on the same slot, even if they bid on different powers, the player with the lower position in the draft gets the power, and everyone else becomes a vanilla member of their faction.

-- It is illegal to quote directly from any QT into the main thread or another QT, other than a personal QT.

-- Mafia will receive fake flavor claims that are randomized from a list of 13 possible town flavor names.

Alignment PM's are listed below.

Students

You are __________ a student at Breakbills University and have signed up for this course to come together with your fellow students and help kill the evil beings. You win when all threats to your faction are eliminated.

Evil Beings

You are __________ a being of pure evil and are trying to eliminate all magicians before magic comes back and nothing can stop you from taking over the magical world. You win when all the students are dead or nothing can stop that from happening.

At Night one of the Evil Beings may perform the factional kill. You may also perform other actions if you received PR's in the draft.



Ways to Obtain Magical Abilities


Study Physical
Ninja
Strongman

Study Natural
Neighborizer
Motion Detector

Study Knowledge
2-shot Allignment Cop
JOAT (1-shot Ninja, 1-shot Strongman, 1-shot Roleblocker)

Study Healing
Doctor
1-shot Bulletproof

Study Psychic
1-shot Commuter
2-shot Motivator

Pray to Our Lady of the Underground
Watcher
Tracker

Party with Bacchus
Day 2 Innocent Child (Town Only)
Universal Backup

Work for the Library
Jailkeeper
JOAT (1-shot Role Cop, 1-shot Tracker, 1-shot Reloader)

Sleep with a God
1-shot Vigilante
Roleblocker

Make a Fairy Deal (3 Random Slots will be chosen and one random unchosen PR from each will fill out this slot) Mafia will be told exactly what roles are in this slot but not what role if any is chosen.
Random PR
Random PR
Random PR


Action Resolution Chain
Commuting
Roleblocking
Jailkeeping
Watching/Tracking/Motion Detecting/Doctoring/Neighborizer/Copping/Reloading/Motivating
Vigilante/Factional Kill

[mcmcsalot]

Role PMs:

You are the Ninja!

If you perform a killing action, that kill will not be detected by a Tracker, Watcher, or Motion Detector.

You are the Strongman!

If you perform a killing action, that action will succeed, even if you are blocked or your target is protected, unless multiple blocks or protections are deployed. The Strongman effect does not help against commuting, however.

You are the Neighborizor!

Each night you may target a player. That player will be invited to your Neighborhood at the start of the following day and remain open until the start of the following night.

If you are killed in the same night as you invite someone to your neighborhood that player will still be invited and any players in the neighborhood will continue to be able to talk during subsequent day phases.

You are the Motion Detector!

At night, you may target a player. You will receive the result “Motion detected” or “No motion detected.” You will detect motion if your target takes a night action, or is targeted by a night action other than the Motion Detector.

You are the 2-Shot Alignment Cop!

At night, you may target a player. You will be told that player’s Alignment.

You are the Jack of All Trades!

You are a 1-Shot Strongman, 1-Shot Ninja, and 1-Shot Roleblocker.

Once, if you perform a killing action, you can choose to make it a Strong kill. The kill will succeed, even if blocked or protected, unless multiple blocks or protections are used.

Once, if you perform a killing action, you can choose to make it a Ninja kill. The kill cannot be tracked, watched, or motion detected.

Once, at night, you may roleblock a player. This player’s actions will fail and their shot if any consumed. If a Roleblocker and 1-Shot Roleblocker target each other, both players will be blocked from using any other action and the 1-shot Roleblocker's shot will be used up. If a Jailkeeper and 1-Shot Roleblocker target each other, only the Jailkeeper will be blocked.

You may only use one of these actions per night unless motivated.

You are the Doctor!

At night, you may target another player. That player will be protected from a kill.

You are One-Shot Bulletproof!

At night, if you are targeted by a kill, that kill will fail.

This only works once, but the shot is only use up if the kill would have succeeded if not for the bulletproof status.

You are the 1-Shot Commuter!

Once, at night, you may choose to commute. If you do, no other night action will impact you.

You are the 2-Shot Motivator!

Twice, at night, you may target a player. At the end of the night the player will be notified that they have been motivated and the next night they will be able to take an additional action, this is not compulsory.

For powers that use shots a second shot will be used with the second action. The Mafia Factional kill cannot be motivated thus netting an additional kill.

You are the Watcher!

At night, you may target another player. You will learn which players, other than you, targeted that player during this night.

If the player you watched was targeted by no one else, or your action was thwarted, you will receive the result, “No Result.”

You are the Tracker!

At night, you may target a player. You will learn which players were targeted by that player during this night.

If the player you tracked targeted no one, or your action was thwarted, you will receive the result, “No Result.”

You are the Day 2 Innocent Child!

If you are still alive at the start of Day 2, the mod will publicly confirm you as Town.

You are the Universal Backup!

The first time a player with a role dies, you will automatically inherit that role. If multiple players with roles die during the same game phase, you may choose which role you inherit. If the role you would inherit has no shots remaining, you will receive a single shot.

Once you inherit a role, you will no longer be considered a Universal Backup for investigatory purposes. Your role will be the role you inherited.

You are the Jailkeeper!

At night, you may target another player. That player’s actions will fail, and also, the player will be protected from a kill.

A jailed player can still be investigated. If the Jailkeeper is roleblocked, the jailing will fail, even if the Jailkeeper targeted the Roleblocker.

You are the Jack of All Trades!

You are a 1-Shot Rolecop, 1-Shot Tracker, and 1-Shot Reloader.

Once, at night you may target another player. You will be told that players role. A universal backup who has inherited a role will show up as just the role they inherited.

Once, at night you may target another player. You will learn which players were targeted by that player during this night. If the player you tracked targeted no one, or your action was thwarted, you will receive the result, “No Result.”

Once, at night you may target another player. At the end of the night they will be notified that they have been reloaded and the next night if they are a power role that relies on shots they will have one additional shot. A power cannot have more shots than the maximum number of shots they started the game with. You will be notified of being reloaded regardless of the ability to receive a shot.

You may only use one of these actions per night unless motivated.

You are the 1-Shot Vigilante

Once, at night, you may shoot one player. That player will be killed, unless otherwise protected.

You are the Roleblocker!

At night, you may target a player. That player’s actions will fail.

If a Roleblocker and Jailkeeper target each other, only the Jailkeeper will be blocked and their shot if any consumed. If a Roleblocker and 1-Shot Roleblocker target each other, both players will be blocked from using any other action and the 1-shot Roleblocker's shot will be used up.

[Robz888]

/in

[faust]

I'm not sure I get the point of drafting if scum canot even cooperate.

[faust]

I mean at that point, drafting is just an unnecessarily lengthy randomisation process. You might just as well randomise yourself. Of course then it becomes clear that some possible results of that lead to rather broken setups.

[Galzria]

/in

[schadd]

i mean the idea is that people can try to get roles that they like

[schadd]

i don't really plan to play but i would claim that (for town):

watcher is a good bit better than tracker
doctor is a good bit better than 1bp
universal backup is probably a good bit better than d2 IC

[2.71828.....]

/in

[Galzria]

/out - sorry, would love to play but have had a work crisis come up that I don't expect to be easily sorted for at least 6 weeks, minimum.

[Jimmmmm]

/in

[Hydrad]

/in

[pingpongsam]

I'm /in. I'm down for the role selection over randomization. To say they are the same precludes free will and creativity. I definitely pursued and therefore won a very unlikely selection in M100.

[Robz888]

Mcmc, are you going to claim the right to invite some players to re-bid if it comes out wildly unbalanced? Because otherwise it would be reasonably possible for mafia to end up with zero PRs here.

[mcmcsalot]

Mcmc, are you going to claim the right to invite some players to re-bid if it comes out wildly unbalanced? Because otherwise it would be reasonably possible for mafia to end up with zero PRs here.

Yes I do reserve the right to re-do portions of not all of the draft in the event that it is terribly unbalanced.

Also I would appreciate it if people refrained from doing things like what schaad did and discussing what roles are better than others. It is an unintentional way of telegraphing what one would select and what should be taken where.

[Swowl]

zomg I asked for a PIP and there is a PIP it is like magiccccc

/innnnnnnn

(thanks MC)

[Xxraptorslayer96]

/in

[faust]

Mcmc, are you going to claim the right to invite some players to re-bid if it comes out wildly unbalanced? Because otherwise it would be reasonably possible for mafia to end up with zero PRs here.

Yes I do reserve the right to re-do portions of not all of the draft in the event that it is terribly unbalanced.

Also I would appreciate it if people refrained from doing things like what schaad did and discussing what roles are better than others. It is an unintentional way of telegraphing what one would select and what should be taken where.

Will there be any transparency on what results would be considered "terribly unbalanced"?

[mcmcsalot]

Mcmc, are you going to claim the right to invite some players to re-bid if it comes out wildly unbalanced? Because otherwise it would be reasonably possible for mafia to end up with zero PRs here.

Yes I do reserve the right to re-do portions of not all of the draft in the event that it is terribly unbalanced.

Also I would appreciate it if people refrained from doing things like what schaad did and discussing what roles are better than others. It is an unintentional way of telegraphing what one would select and what should be taken where.

Will there be any transparency on what results would be considered "terribly unbalanced"?

yes, I honestly don’t expect it to happen as it hasn’t in any of these games in the past and I believe I am less forgiving then robz, but post game the full draft will be revealed.

[faust]

Well the previous games had a mechanic in place to ensure that scum can coordinate and get better slots.

But if I understand correctly, then there is no way of definitely saying "setup XY is impossible because mcmc would have rerolled it?" during the game?

[mcmcsalot]

Well the previous games had a mechanic in place to ensure that scum can coordinate and get better slots.

But if I understand correctly, then there is no way of definitely saying "setup XY is impossible because mcmc would have rerolled it?" during the game?

Yes, there is no hard line of "town will only be able to have 2 powers for every one power that scum gets" or something like that. But you could use common sense and assume I am not going to allow a setup where town has 5 pr's and mafia has none.

Also Mafia will be aware of where their partners are located in the draft. It is my intention to make scum and town drafting equal and a town in slots 1-4 knows they are in the upper end of both the draft and their team. Mafia needs to also know I am my teams best/worst pick. I want to make mafia also have to guess my team should have gone for X and Y/Z are probably gone so I should go for L just like town.

[Robz888]

Also: Happy birthday, mcmc!

[Witherweaver]

/in

[schadd]

eh /in

[schadd]

>roleblocker PM implies a shot isn't used if the person is blocked?
>is JOAT limited to one action per night?
>how exactly does the fairy deal one work? i assume the three randos are chosen from the total list of PRs after the slot is chosen and received
>is the person motivated still notified if they don't have a night action

[Cuzz]

Well if schadd is /in...

[LaLight]

/in, I would very much like to play with Hydrad!

[Awaclus]

/in

[Hydrad]

/in, I would very much like to play with Hydrad!

Don't expect to much. I'm not very good at this game.

[mcmcsalot]

>roleblocker PM implies a shot isn't used if the person is blocked?

I see where that wording is confusing, as standard I plan on having X-shots consumed if they are roleblocked/jailkept, not refunded. I will clarify that in the PM.

>is JOAT limited to one action per night?

Yes, unless motivated the JOAT can only use one action per night. If motivated they can use two.

>how exactly does the fairy deal one work? i assume the three randos are chosen from the total list of PRs after the slot is chosen and received

Close, once a player chooses and receives the fairy deal three random slots will be selected then one unchosen pr from each slot will be randomly selected to fill out the Fairy Deal then the player may choose one of those roles. This means that both pr's from an unchosen slot cannot end up in the Fairy Deal. If mafia wins the slot and day 2 IC is randomly selected it will appear in the slot and simply cannot be chosen.

>is the person motivated still notified if they don't have a night action

Yes, the person will be informed that they have been motivated as long as the motivator's action goes through regardless of their status.

I will add this info into the OP where applicable.

[mcmcsalot]

To add clarification to Roleblockers my intent is for them to happen simultaneously so all roleblocker targets are roleblocked. Jailkeeper occurs after roleblocker and a blocked JK would not Jailkeep their target. I will add an action resolution chain to the OP.

[mcmcsalot]

I have also clarified the reloader PM similar to the Motivator. You are notified of being reloaded regardless of ability to gain a shot at the end of the night you are reloaded, and are able to use the additional shot when applicable the next night.

[LaLight]

oh god sorry, /out, I am going on 1,5 weeks vacation. Will be available after that to sub in if needed. Sorry.

[faust]

Oh well. I am not a fan of the setup. But I need a game.

/in

[Joseph2302]

/tag

[SpaceAnemone]

Time for hammer/ing :-)

[Hydrad]

GLHF everyone.

[mcmcsalot]

Wonderful, the class is full!

First we will begin with a two part examination to determine your aptitude for obtaining magical powers.

In your Personal QT you will receive a written exam, a copy of which is included below. Please fill out the exam as soon as possible, all exams will be due by 9AM Saturday April 27th but we will move on to the next phase as soon as all players have responded.

Question 1) Please rank the following series from best to worst, 1 being the best, 5 being the worst: The Magicians, The Chronicles of Narnia, Harry Potter, The Lord of the Rings, Game of Thrones.
Question 2) Please rank these Magical Objects from most to least powerful, 1 being the most, 5 being the least: The Elder Wand, The Ring of Power, Lucy's Cordial, Lightbringer, and the Leo Blade.

Bonus Questions
Bonus Question 1) Please select who you think would win in a fight between Dumbledore and Gandalf.
Bonus Question 2) Please select if you would rather be a King/Queen of Narnia or Fillary.

[gkrieg13]

/tag

[Hydrad]

I should of studied more. I think I have a high chance that I bombed.

[mcmcsalot]

I am still waiting on a few responses and I realized I didn't have everyone /confirm before sending out the questions so I am extending the deadline for responses an additional 24 hours.

[mcmcsalot]

Also thread is locked

[mcmcsalot]

Everyone has handed in their written exams, now we move on to part two. A demonstration of magical ability by perceiving what the class as a whole answered to the written exam. Please respond as soon as possible.

Please select the order you think the class collectively* rated the series, 1 being the best rated series across all answers and 5 being the worst rated series across all answers.
Please select the order you think the class collectively* rated the magical objects, 1 being the most powerful rated object across all answers and 5 being the least powerful rated object across all answers.
Please select who you think was the most popular answer to bonus question 1.
Please select who you think was the least popular answer to bonus question 2.

*A note on how the first two questions were scored. I took the rank of all 13 players and added them together to generate an aggregate score, then ordered the series and objects accordingly. Ties if any were broken by the series/object that received the most 1st place rankings followed by the most 2nd place rankings and so on and so forth. No series/object was ranked identically.

Demonstrations will be scored as follows. One point will be subtracted for each rank away from the correct rank of a series/object making a perfect score 0 and the worst score -40. Identical scores will be tie broken by the answer to bonus question 1 followed by the answer to bonus question 2, followed by the first received answer.

[mcmcsalot]

All answers are in, you will be receiving a message in your QT shortly with your alignment, flavor and draft position as well as the position of your partners for mafia. Please respond by selecting the way you would like to obtain a magical ability and the power you would like to obtain.

[mcmcsalot]

Once I receive everyone's bid I will send out a message with whether or not you won that slot, the evil beings will receive their factional qt and night zero will begin lasting roughly 24 hours allowing everyone to strategize and then we will begin with day one and the thread will unlock.

[mcmcsalot]

Clarification it was left out of the op but Mafia will be told exactly what powers were present in the Fairy Deal slot. They will not be told if any were chosen.

[mcmcsalot]

Night zero begins now and ends tomorrow afternoon, all roles have been handed out.

[mcmcsalot]

Day 1 starts now and lasts until Friday April 11 at 9 PM

[Witherweaver]

Hooray.

[Hydrad]

Ohi

[Hydrad]

How is everyone

[Hydrad]

Vote: raptor

I have no idea who you are so may as well kill you off.

[Robz888]

So we gonna massclaim or

[Hydrad]

So we gonna massclaim or

Is that expected? I don't think I've played one of these draft games before but that seems weird to do insantly

[Jimmmmm]

Vote: Hydrad for dominating the post count without substance.

[Hydrad]

Vote: Hydrad for dominating the post count without substance.

Hmm voting for the person that has more posts then everyone else combined. Are you trying to make the game stall so you can hide?

[Jimmmmm]

Vote: Hydrad for dominating the post count without substance.

Hmm voting for the person that has more posts then everyone else combined. Are you trying to make the game stall so you can hide?

You got me.

[Hydrad]

Vote: Hydrad for dominating the post count without substance.

Hmm voting for the person that has more posts then everyone else combined. Are you trying to make the game stall so you can hide?

You got me.

Perfect. I'm a god at this game. I think I've already solved everything. I'll let you guys play along for a bit before I solve everything for you since it's not that fun if I end it here.

[schadd]

hullo

not going to be exceptionally active d1

[schadd]

vote: robz

[Jimmmmm]

vote: robz

Is this a comment on the massclaim suggestion?

[schadd]

no

massclaim is probably bad

[Robz888]

It is of course bad.

I was kidding.

Probably.

[Robz888]

I was definitely kidding, it’s probably bad, to be precise.

[2.71828.....]

It is of course bad.

I was kidding.

Probably.

I am always down for a good old fashioned D1 mass claim discussion. But I will save that for tomorrow. Sleep for now

[faust]

We could have the 1-shot vig claim. Potentially.

[faust]

I had stuff planned but then mcmc prevented that from working. Which is probably for the best.

One thing we could consider is claiming order. Since mcmc aims for a balanced game, chances are scum are spread out fairly evenly. But on the other hand that alone makes it probably not worth it.

[Witherweaver]

I don't have strong feelings about claiming.

I think in previous games with such drafts, claiming order ended up more beneficial than not.

[Witherweaver]

Vote: Schadd on a weak gut feel.

[Awaclus]

I don't like PR massclaim, but I'd be up for a draft order+quiz answers massclaim.

[Hydrad]

I don't like PR massclaim, but I'd be up for a draft order+quiz answers massclaim.

are you meaning we just claim like what position we were in for the draft?

[Awaclus]

I don't like PR massclaim, but I'd be up for a draft order+quiz answers massclaim.

are you meaning we just claim like what position we were in for the draft?

I am meaning we claim what position we were in for the draft, and what answers we submitted.

[SpaceAnemone]

Doesn't revealing exactly which players came top of the draft and got the opportunity to pick the best PRs kind of help scum rather too much for the early game?

[Swowl]

I don't like PR massclaim, but I'd be up for a draft order+quiz answers massclaim.

are you meaning we just claim like what position we were in for the draft?

I am meaning we claim what position we were in for the draft, and what answers we submitted.

This idea could have merit to it.
But I think probably one then the other, as it gives skum the best chance to hang themselves.

[Hydrad]

I don't like PR massclaim, but I'd be up for a draft order+quiz answers massclaim.

are you meaning we just claim like what position we were in for the draft?

I am meaning we claim what position we were in for the draft, and what answers we submitted.

Isn't this just a fullclaim?... hmm actually now that I think about it I see how this could be different then a fullclaim.

especially if we did like a random number generator to determine who claims first going by the position of the draft?

That could be interesting. I don't know if its good still but I'd be fine going for it.

PPE:1

[Awaclus]

I don't like PR massclaim, but I'd be up for a draft order+quiz answers massclaim.

are you meaning we just claim like what position we were in for the draft?

I am meaning we claim what position we were in for the draft, and what answers we submitted.

This idea could have merit to it.
But I think probably one then the other, as it gives skum the best chance to hang themselves.

Yeah. I was thinking that we should post the guesses for most popular answers and the draft positions first, then the actual answers.

[Awaclus]

Isn't this just a fullclaim?

No, we're not claiming what PRs we bid for.

[Hydrad]

Isn't this just a fullclaim?

No, we're not claiming what PRs we bid for.

oh... nvm i see. I thought you meant at first what you bid for. but you mean what we drafted as. Ya I'm still ok with that.

[Hydrad]

Isn't this just a fullclaim?

No, we're not claiming what PRs we bid for.

oh... nvm i see. I thought you meant at first what you bid for. but you mean what we drafted as. Ya I'm still ok with that.

err not drafted as. what we put on our tests.

[pingpongsam]

I came in last place in the draft order which was no surprise at all considering the subject matter. I bid one shot vig anyway so now I know for certain there is one in the game.

[SpaceAnemone]

D1 is the only time we can force everyone to claim their draft order and expect to be able to force them to be truthful, becuase after that we start losing players, and their answers become lost to the game. Not knowing all the answers means we can't re-evaluate the algorithm mcmc used to confirm everyone's draft position. The other upside of doing this now is that we have 13 slots and 13 players, meaning that there's zero uncertianty about whether to expect a given draft position to be present in the game.

Zero uncertainty about things is nice, but this is Mafia, so I think there are better tradeoffs that get more information into the game, because we're steeped in uncertainty anyway. Also, in later days, scums can take a gamble on claiming slots they think belonged to dead players, and we've seen that go wrong for them in the past, so that temptation might be a good reason to postpone the claim.

The obvious major downside of doing a draft claim now is that we out the people most likely to be powerful PRs, but it's not symmetric: scum can hide their PRs by claiming each other's slots to a certain extent, especially if they're organised enough to have swapped their critical question info in their QT N0. If faust is scum, they may well have done that, for example.

The draft claim is kind of a nice thing for scum to push early, because it sounds liek it has merit on the surface of it, probably enough that a low-placed VT might come out in support. The people most likely to be violently against it are the high-placed PRs, because they realise they're going to be outed without a chance to contribute to the game. So here's me being verbosely against in a self-aware style... hopefull that'll confuse the scums a bit :-)

[SpaceAnemone]

I came in last place in the draft order which was no surprise at all considering the subject matter. I bid one shot vig anyway so now I know for certain there is one in the game.

Claiming VT D1 is not super-townie because you're just taking yourself out of the possible pool of scum targets while upping the risk for all of the actual PRs :-(

I'd never heard of The Magicians till this game.

[SpaceAnemone]

Swan and Raptor know each other IRL. Worth pointing out for the people who haven't played with them before?

Also super-subtle early-game reminder: I use they/them pronouns by preference in here, or she/her if you really can't manage that. He/him will be met with grumpiness.

[faust]

I came in last place in the draft order which was no surprise at all considering the subject matter. I bid one shot vig anyway so now I know for certain there is one in the game.
[/quote
No you don't. Unless you're scum and your teammate is 1-shot vig. The slot being blocked could also be due to someone going for RB.

[faust]

Oh crap. Well you get what it was supposed to look like.

Completely unrelated, vote: Awaclus

[faust]

If faust is scum, they may well have done that, for example.

I'm not though!

[Witherweaver]

I came in last place in the draft order which was no surprise at all considering the subject matter. I bid one shot vig anyway so now I know for certain there is one in the game.
[/quote
No you don't. Unless you're scum and your teammate is 1-shot vig. The slot being blocked could also be due to someone going for RB.

Hm, it seems odd to me that scum can get Vig, but it doesn't say Town only.

[pingpongsam]

Swan and Raptor know each other IRL. Worth pointing out for the people who haven't played with them before?

Also super-subtle early-game reminder: I use they/them pronouns by preference in here, or she/her if you really can't manage that. He/him will be met with grumpiness.

I’m not claiming VT. Are you claiming one shot vig?

[iguanaiguana]

Vote Count 1.1

Xxraptorslayer96 (1): Hydrad
Hydrad (1): Jimmmmm
Robz888 (1): schadd
schadd (1): Witherweaver
Awaclus (1): faust
Not Voting (8):  Robz888, 2.71828....., pingpongsam, DatSwan, Xxraptorslayer96, Cuzz, Awaclus, SpaceAnemonie

With 13 alive, i takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 lasts until Friday April 11 at 9 PM

[SpaceAnemone]

Swan and Raptor know each other IRL. Worth pointing out for the people who haven't played with them before?

Also super-subtle early-game reminder: I use they/them pronouns by preference in here, or she/her if you really can't manage that. He/him will be met with grumpiness.

I’m not claiming VT. Are you claiming one shot vig?

Nope, not claiming any role at all. I read you sad saying that you knew it was in the game because you didn't get it, which seems to be how faust took it too. Though I now realise you getting the role in spite of being last in the draft is actually one way of knowing for sure it's there.

[2.71828.....]

I don't like PR massclaim, but I'd be up for a draft order+quiz answers massclaim.

No, this is bad. If we are going to claim stuff let's actually claim stuff

[2.71828.....]

That being said, I don't like claiming until D3 or so

[Awaclus]

Vote: e

[2.71828.....]

I came in last place in the draft order which was no surprise at all considering the subject matter. I bid one shot vig anyway so now I know for certain there is one in the game.

You know for certain that slot was bid on. Could have been a roleblocker (however unlikely. Like, who takes roleblocker over vig?)

[2.71828.....]

Vote: e

Yes, I was caught as the SK in M100 through draft position claiming.  That was completely different than this draft

[faust]

I came in last place in the draft order which was no surprise at all considering the subject matter. I bid one shot vig anyway so now I know for certain there is one in the game.

You know for certain that slot was bid on. Could have been a roleblocker (however unlikely. Like, who takes roleblocker over vig?)

Well, maybe pps is actually claiming 1-shot vig.

[Cuzz]

I claim that I had also never heard of the Magicians and that Kingkiller Chronicle should have made the quiz.

Also my parents are visiting this weekend so I’m basically out till Monday.

[Robz888]

Vote: PPS

If he's a scum vig, great.

If he's scum who swapped claims with another scum, well he's still scum, great.

If he's town... well, I'd rather lose the vig than some other town PR.

If he's VT... meh.

[2.71828.....]

Vote: PPS

If he's a scum vig, great.

If he's scum who swapped claims with another scum, well he's still scum, great.

If he's town... well, I'd rather lose the vig than some other town PR.

If he's VT... meh.

So we lynch the least bad person rather than the most scummy. That usually works

Vote: Robz

[2.71828.....]

 To expand: I think PPS is more likely to make statements like the one he did as town, and scum will opportunistically jump on them and push for his lynch.

[Robz888]

To expand: I think PPS is more likely to make statements like the one he did as town, and scum will opportunistically jump on them and push for his lynch.

I'm not sure he's more likely to make statements like that as town. In that game he won as scum with faust and Cuzz, he was playing pretty bold with the claims.

[Hydrad]

I actually don't like how PPS claimed it kinda.

I guess just thinking if hes a goon scum, and didn't get a role. The way he claimed it sets up a safe fake claim if we do all claim.

On the flip side I guess for town it opens the possibility that he could be a vig still. But I still find it scummier then towny.

[iguanaiguana]

Vote Count 1.2

Xxraptorslayer96 (1): Hydrad
Hydrad (1): Jimmmmm
Robz888 (2): schadd, 2.71828...
schadd (1): Witherweaver
Awaclus (1): faust
2.71828... (1): Awaclus
Pingpongsam (1): Robz888

Not Voting (5): pingpongsam, DatSwan, Xxraptorslayer96, Cuzz, SpaceAnemonie

With 13 alive, i takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 lasts until Friday April 11 at 9 PM

[Hydrad]

One off topic thing. I'm assuming day ends may 11th?

[faust]

I don't think PPS is scum, but I think Robz is townie for suggesting that lynch.

[Swowl]

Vote: PPS

If he's a scum vig, great.

If he's scum who swapped claims with another scum, well he's still scum, great.

If he's town... well, I'd rather lose the vig than some other town PR.

If he's VT... meh.

I love you Robz, but this is so poorly thought out you like almost have to be town.

[Witherweaver]

I claim that I had also never heard of the Magicians and that Kingkiller Chronicle should have made the quiz.

Also my parents are visiting this weekend so I’m basically out till Monday.

I counterclaim.

[Witherweaver]

Vote: PPS

If he's a scum vig, great.

If he's scum who swapped claims with another scum, well he's still scum, great.

If he's town... well, I'd rather lose the vig than some other town PR.

If he's VT... meh.

I love you Robz, but this is so poorly thought out you like almost have to be town.

Nah, he's just really afraid of getting vigged.

[Xxraptorslayer96]

Vote: raptor

I have no idea who you are so may as well kill you off.

I have so many vote choices if we use this logic.

But also for those I haven’t played with; Hello, I’m raptor.

[faust]

I don't like PR massclaim, but I'd be up for a draft order+quiz answers massclaim.

are you meaning we just claim like what position we were in for the draft?

I am meaning we claim what position we were in for the draft, and what answers we submitted.

This idea could have merit to it.
But I think probably one then the other, as it gives skum the best chance to hang themselves.

Yeah. I was thinking that we should post the guesses for most popular answers and the draft positions first, then the actual answers.

How do you think this will provide benefit?

[Awaclus]

I don't like PR massclaim, but I'd be up for a draft order+quiz answers massclaim.

are you meaning we just claim like what position we were in for the draft?

I am meaning we claim what position we were in for the draft, and what answers we submitted.

This idea could have merit to it.
But I think probably one then the other, as it gives skum the best chance to hang themselves.

Yeah. I was thinking that we should post the guesses for most popular answers and the draft positions first, then the actual answers.

How do you think this will provide benefit?

It gives scum less of a chance to fakeclaim and get away with it.

[Hydrad]

I feel like just claiming draft order will result in the same thing?

I don't see scum lying about draft order because if they say the same number as someone else we can pick between them to lynch.

[Hydrad]

I feel like just claiming draft order will result in the same thing?

I don't see scum lying about draft order because if they say the same number as someone else we can pick between them to lynch.

actually thinking about it I guess I can see a slight difference that it could make.

Either way i'm still fine with all claiming options.

[Awaclus]

I feel like just claiming draft order will result in the same thing?

I don't see scum lying about draft order because if they say the same number as someone else we can pick between them to lynch.

That's actually true. Let's just claim draft order.

[2.71828.....]

I feel like just claiming draft order will result in the same thing?

I don't see scum lying about draft order because if they say the same number as someone else we can pick between them to lynch.

That's actually true. Let's just claim draft order.

No one has any reason to lie about draft order, which is why we don't learn anything from claiming it.

[Awaclus]

I feel like just claiming draft order will result in the same thing?

I don't see scum lying about draft order because if they say the same number as someone else we can pick between them to lynch.

That's actually true. Let's just claim draft order.

No one has any reason to lie about draft order, which is why we don't learn anything from claiming it.

We learn the draft order, which makes it harder for scum to lie about their actual roles when the time comes to claim that.

[SpaceAnemone]

@Awaclus, what's to stop scum claiming each other's slots in this plan you're promoting?

[Awaclus]

@Awaclus, what's to stop scum claiming each other's slots in this plan you're promoting?

Nothing. It's still better than nothing.

[faust]

Voting for Awaclus is also better than nothing.

[Awaclus]

Voting for Awaclus is also better than nothing.

If you think that contributing towards a scum victory is better than nothing, sure.

[SpaceAnemone]

@Awaclus, what's to stop scum claiming each other's slots in this plan you're promoting?

Nothing. It's still better than nothing.

"Nothing" in this context means not outing all our strong PRs before they've had a single night for information-gathering.

Can you convince me that doing a draft order claim D1 over D2 is worth the information we don't get from having our PRs targeted before they can do their thing?

[SpaceAnemone]

I feel like just claiming draft order will result in the same thing?

I don't see scum lying about draft order because if they say the same number as someone else we can pick between them to lynch.

That's actually true. Let's just claim draft order.

No one has any reason to lie about draft order, which is why we don't learn anything from claiming it.

Scum most certainly does have a reason to lie, because a scummy-seeming person low down in draft order end up less likely to be a top lynch target than one who's high in the draft order and might hold a valuable PR. And if that's not exactly how people are proposing to use the claim then why else is it so powerful that we need to do it at the expense of town PRs?

[Hydrad]

I feel like just claiming draft order will result in the same thing?

I don't see scum lying about draft order because if they say the same number as someone else we can pick between them to lynch.

That's actually true. Let's just claim draft order.

No one has any reason to lie about draft order, which is why we don't learn anything from claiming it.

Scum most certainly does have a reason to lie, because a scummy-seeming person low down in draft order end up less likely to be a top lynch target than one who's high in the draft order and might hold a valuable PR. And if that's not exactly how people are proposing to use the claim then why else is it so powerful that we need to do it at the expense of town PRs?

Ya this is the part where awaclus's idea of also claiming what you put on the test changes that so the scum can't swap numbers

[schadd]

@Awaclus, what's to stop scum claiming each other's slots in this plan you're promoting?

hmmmm

[schadd]

hydrad + ww kindatown

[Swowl]

I feel like just claiming draft order will result in the same thing?

I don't see scum lying about draft order because if they say the same number as someone else we can pick between them to lynch.

That's actually true. Let's just claim draft order.

I don't get this post. We of course will learn something. The same way like every pick your power game goes... it will come to a claim and at that point forcing a previous position claim will help verify results.

No one has any reason to lie about draft order, which is why we don't learn anything from claiming it.

[Swowl]

I feel like just claiming draft order will result in the same thing?

I don't see scum lying about draft order because if they say the same number as someone else we can pick between them to lynch.

That's actually true. Let's just claim draft order.

I don't get this post. We of course will learn something. The same way like every pick your power game goes... it will come to a claim and at that point forcing a previous position claim will help verify results.

No one has any reason to lie about draft order, which is why we don't learn anything from claiming it.

I don't get this post. We of course will learn something. The same way like every pick your power game goes... it will come to a claim and at that point forcing a previous position claim will help verify results.
 ***fixed***

[Swowl]

@Awaclus, what's to stop scum claiming each other's slots in this plan you're promoting?

Nothing. It's still better than nothing.

Why does it matter? Lets say Skum A claims the role of Skum B,  and then we kill Skum B... we still kill Skum. In what world would a plan where the only downside is "killing the wrong skum" be a bad option? I am not saying that that is the only downside, just basing it on the quoted interaction.

[Swowl]

@Awaclus, what's to stop scum claiming each other's slots in this plan you're promoting?

Nothing. It's still better than nothing.

Why does it matter? Lets say Skum A claims the role of Skum B,  and then we kill Skum B... we still kill Skum. In what world would a plan where the only downside is "killing the wrong skum" be a bad option? I am not saying that that is the only downside, just basing it on the quoted interaction.

This was horribly written, but you all get it and I am going to bed

[faust]

@Awaclus, what's to stop scum claiming each other's slots in this plan you're promoting?

Nothing. It's still better than nothing.

Why does it matter? Lets say Skum A claims the role of Skum B,  and then we kill Skum B... we still kill Skum. In what world would a plan where the only downside is "killing the wrong skum" be a bad option? I am not saying that that is the only downside, just basing it on the quoted interaction.

The problem is that the objective of the plan is not to lynch scum, it is to reduce fakelclaiming options for them.

[Awaclus]

Fakeclaiming options are super important for scum.

[faust]

But seriously all this talk is pointless since we're almost certainly not going to do any claims. Awaclus knows this. He is not trying to convince anyone. If you read his posts, you can see that he is not even trying to present coherent arguments. Instead what has happened is that scum!Awaclus has seen this as an opportunity to ramp up his activity level without breaking his meta of not discussing reads.

[Awaclus]

But seriously all this talk is pointless since we're almost certainly not going to do any claims.

We're certainly going to do claims.

He is not trying to convince anyone. If you read his posts, you can see that he is not even trying to present coherent arguments.

Because it's obvious that claiming draft order is good for town. We have a chance to give scum less control over the game, of course we take it.

[Hydrad]

I'm kinda with awaclus on this one. I like claiming draft order (as I think I've said a few times) and think its useful for us.

But really I just kinda wish we can pick an option and go with it to move on. but at the same time its day1 so not a lot to go on so I guess this discussion is better then nothing.

[Swowl]

I'm kinda with awaclus on this one. I like claiming draft order (as I think I've said a few times) and think its useful for us.

But really I just kinda wish we can pick an option and go with it to move on. but at the same time its day1 so not a lot to go on so I guess this discussion is better then nothing.

I lied. I hate sleep.

Here is something to discuss:
Assuming we went with the option of claiming draft order - How would we decide on the order to claim your draft position at this point in the game? Would it be random? Does someone have an idea in mind as of how to construct the order of events?

I am assuming not - but I will ask anyways.

[Swowl]

I'm kinda with awaclus on this one. I like claiming draft order (as I think I've said a few times) and think its useful for us.

But really I just kinda wish we can pick an option and go with it to move on. but at the same time its day1 so not a lot to go on so I guess this discussion is better then nothing.

I lied. I hate sleep.

Here is something to discuss:
Assuming we went with the option of claiming draft order - How would we decide on the order to claim your draft position at this point in the game? Would it be random? Does someone have an idea in mind as of how to construct the order of events?

I am assuming not - but I will ask anyways.

Actually lets make it direct since you seem talkative:

@ Awaclus - Hypothetical situation: Everyone agrees with you. What should the claim order be?

[Awaclus]

@ Awaclus - Hypothetical situation: Everyone agrees with you. What should the claim order be?

It should be the sign up order, as we don't have an IC.

[faust]

@ Awaclus - Hypothetical situation: Everyone agrees with you. What should the claim order be?

It should be the sign up order, as we don't have an IC.

That does not matter at all.

[faust]

He is not trying to convince anyone. If you read his posts, you can see that he is not even trying to present coherent arguments.

Because it's obvious that claiming draft order is good for town. We have a chance to give scum less control over the game, of course we take it.

You're actually increasing scum control if you let them know which people are good nightkills. That this is outweighed by the additional limitations on fakeclaiming is not obvious at all.

[Awaclus]

You're actually increasing scum control if you let them know which people are good nightkills. That this is outweighed by the additional limitations on fakeclaiming is not obvious at all.

It doesn't automatically let scum know which people are good nightkills. Some of the roles are super bad NKs.

[faust]

You're actually increasing scum control if you let them know which people are good nightkills. That this is outweighed by the additional limitations on fakeclaiming is not obvious at all.

It doesn't automatically let scum know which people are good nightkills. Some of the roles are super bad NKs.

From what I can see, there are 2 PRs that would be bad targets for scum, neither of which should be high on town's priority list.

[pingpongsam]

Considering I have already claimed, I could produce a claim order. I hereby decree it should be the sign up order!

[SpaceAnemone]

He is not trying to convince anyone. If you read his posts, you can see that he is not even trying to present coherent arguments.

Because it's obvious that claiming draft order is good for town. We have a chance to give scum less control over the game, of course we take it.

You're actually increasing scum control if you let them know which people are good nightkills. That this is outweighed by the additional limitations on fakeclaiming is not obvious at all.

I totally agree with faust on this, and it's getting tiresome that Awaclus is sidestepping addressing the major downside with his "plan".

Vote: Awaclus

[SpaceAnemone]

I think it would be good to have a reminder of what recent-ish games ran on a draft scheme like this, and who played in which games.. I don't suppose anyone has already compiles such a list, have they?

[Jimmmmm]

Townread on both PPS and Robz.

[SpaceAnemone]

Scum most certainly does have a reason to lie, because a scummy-seeming person low down in draft order end up less likely to be a top lynch target than one who's high in the draft order and might hold a valuable PR. And if that's not exactly how people are proposing to use the claim then why else is it so powerful that we need to do it at the expense of town PRs?

Ya this is the part where awaclus's idea of also claiming what you put on the test changes that so the scum can't swap numbers

As I noted earlier, scum can very easily have swapped all their answers N0 in their QT. That's exactly how I would have played it as scum here, and I'm sure I'm not the only one, especially now that there have been a number of these draft-type games run here.

I agree that the ability to use the drafting answers is strong -- I've proposed using exactly that in previous games, and spend a lot of time trying to persuade previous towns to maximise in-game info by doing just that. This is not some special new plan that Awaclus has come up with for this game: he's recycling parts of previous plans that people like me have pushed in previous drafting games, but he seems to have zero sensitivity for context and cost here.

[Jimmmmm]

Because it's obvious that claiming draft order is good for town. We have a chance to give scum less control over the game, of course we take it.

I'm not seeing it. Isn't outing our (likely) PRs giving scum more control?

[Awaclus]

From what I can see, there are 2 PRs that would be bad targets for scum, neither of which should be high on town's priority list.

They could be.

I totally agree with faust on this, and it's getting tiresome that Awaclus is sidestepping addressing the major downside with his "plan".

I have addressed it. It isn't a major downside.

I'm not seeing it. Isn't outing our (likely) PRs giving scum more control?

No, because scum doesn't know what PRs they are. After #1, they don't even know whether it's a PR or not, and it's possible scum themselves have #1, in which case we out nobody. If scum gets to fakeclaim however they choose, that's a lot more control they will have in the end game.

[Jimmmmm]

From what I can see, there are 2 PRs that would be bad targets for scum, neither of which should be high on town's priority list.

They could be.

I totally agree with faust on this, and it's getting tiresome that Awaclus is sidestepping addressing the major downside with his "plan".

I have addressed it. It isn't a major downside.

I'm not seeing it. Isn't outing our (likely) PRs giving scum more control?

No, because scum doesn't know what PRs they are. After #1, they don't even know whether it's a PR or not, and it's possible scum themselves have #1, in which case we out nobody. If scum gets to fakeclaim however they choose, that's a lot more control they will have in the end game.

Sure, it potentially doesn't give them a lot of definite information. But certainly the first few Townies in the draft are much more likely to have PRs than the last few.

Ultimately I think the things we definitely don't want are some people claiming and some not, or spending most of Day 1 arguing about it. So while I'm not convinced claiming Day 1 is good for Town, if enough people do we should just get it over with.

[SpaceAnemone]

Plan A(waclus): claim drafting order now. Get 100% correct ordering, out our PRs without knowing where in the order any individual scum comes because they could have permuted their numbers. Go into D2 likely to be one strong PR down, another one blocked etc.

Plan B: Hold off on claiming. Lose 1-2 townies probably, hold a claim on D2 instead. Get useful PR results at night. Maybe only lose a VT. Town tells the truth about their draft order, scum permutes again. Do they risk trying to guess what slot the missing townie has? Probably depends on where in the order they claim and how much they want to gamble, but it's a risky thing. And we have a D1's-worth of scumreads to help us make a claiming order to put the scummier-looking people at the top, thereby decreasing their chances of guessing the slot of a dead townie. All in all, we're likely to get the same claiming order as D1, but with a lower likelihood of loss of key PRs over VTs.

Of course, we don't even have to claim on D2. All we have to agree is that Plan B is stronger than Plan A, and we're good to get on with normal D1 accusations and stuff instead of this notion that we should claim.

[Hydrad]

Ok. I've been swayed. I think I'm against claiming now

[2.71828.....]

Have we decided not to claim yet? Thank you space for clearly laying it out.

Advocating for a D1 claim is usually something that will generate an automatic D1 pass from me, but even more generally I think we do not tend to lynch those who come out with bold crazy plans (whether it inflates post count, activity, etc we tend to find them townie enough not to lynch D1).  I think that is manipulatable and awaclus knows it.

Vote: Awaclus

[Witherweaver]

He is not trying to convince anyone. If you read his posts, you can see that he is not even trying to present coherent arguments.

Because it's obvious that claiming draft order is good for town. We have a chance to give scum less control over the game, of course we take it.

You're actually increasing scum control if you let them know which people are good nightkills. That this is outweighed by the additional limitations on fakeclaiming is not obvious at all.

I totally agree with faust on this, and it's getting tiresome that Awaclus is sidestepping addressing the major downside with his "plan".

Vote: Awaclus

Awaclus getting tiresome is, like, completely independent from his alignment.

[faust]

He is not trying to convince anyone. If you read his posts, you can see that he is not even trying to present coherent arguments.

Because it's obvious that claiming draft order is good for town. We have a chance to give scum less control over the game, of course we take it.

You're actually increasing scum control if you let them know which people are good nightkills. That this is outweighed by the additional limitations on fakeclaiming is not obvious at all.

I totally agree with faust on this, and it's getting tiresome that Awaclus is sidestepping addressing the major downside with his "plan".

Vote: Awaclus

Awaclus getting tiresome is, like, completely independent from his alignment.

Usually he's getting tiresome for different reasons though!

[Witherweaver]

He is not trying to convince anyone. If you read his posts, you can see that he is not even trying to present coherent arguments.

Because it's obvious that claiming draft order is good for town. We have a chance to give scum less control over the game, of course we take it.

You're actually increasing scum control if you let them know which people are good nightkills. That this is outweighed by the additional limitations on fakeclaiming is not obvious at all.

I totally agree with faust on this, and it's getting tiresome that Awaclus is sidestepping addressing the major downside with his "plan".

Vote: Awaclus

Awaclus getting tiresome is, like, completely independent from his alignment.

Usually he's getting tiresome for different reasons though!

I stopped looking for reasons long ago.

[Awaclus]

I think that is manipulatable and awaclus knows it.

That isn't a reason to think that I'm scum. Even if I wasn't really advocating for this plan (which I am), I would benefit from manipulating that as both alignments.

[SpaceAnemone]

You're actually increasing scum control if you let them know which people are good nightkills. That this is outweighed by the additional limitations on fakeclaiming is not obvious at all.

I totally agree with faust on this, and it's getting tiresome that Awaclus is sidestepping addressing the major downside with his "plan".

Vote: Awaclus

Awaclus getting tiresome is, like, completely independent from his alignment.

Usually he's getting tiresome for different reasons though!

This is true too. Usually Awaclus is all about how nobody should explain themselves/their votes/why to vote in a particular way in mafia. I don't see his interest in claims and rationing out information as something that's exactly opposed to his usual stance, but it's definitely a departure from usual town-Awaclus.

Maybe he's trying to mix things up because he's townie and realises he needs an additional string to his bow. Maybe he's scum Awaclus being bold in a way he doesn't realise doesn't sound like tedious!town!Awaclus. I think he does get a little more bold as scum sometimes, but someone who's more of a previous-game-geek should weigh in on that one.

[Hydrad]

You're actually increasing scum control if you let them know which people are good nightkills. That this is outweighed by the additional limitations on fakeclaiming is not obvious at all.

I totally agree with faust on this, and it's getting tiresome that Awaclus is sidestepping addressing the major downside with his "plan".

Vote: Awaclus

Awaclus getting tiresome is, like, completely independent from his alignment.

Usually he's getting tiresome for different reasons though!

This is true too. Usually Awaclus is all about how nobody should explain themselves/their votes/why to vote in a particular way in mafia. I don't see his interest in claims and rationing out information as something that's exactly opposed to his usual stance, but it's definitely a departure from usual town-Awaclus.

Maybe he's trying to mix things up because he's townie and realises he needs an additional string to his bow. Maybe he's scum Awaclus being bold in a way he doesn't realise doesn't sound like tedious!town!Awaclus. I think he does get a little more bold as scum sometimes, but someone who's more of a previous-game-geek should weigh in on that one.

Something about this post I don't like. I can't quite put my finger on it though.

+1 scum point for you.

[faust]

I think that is manipulatable and awaclus knows it.

That isn't a reason to think that I'm scum. Even if I wasn't really advocating for this plan (which I am), I would benefit from manipulating that as both alignments.

But would town benefit if you pushed through a plan that you don't actually believe is beneficial?

[Awaclus]

I don't see his interest in claims and rationing out information as something that's exactly opposed to his usual stance, but it's definitely a departure from usual town-Awaclus.

It isn't a departure. I'm always all about making the decisions that give town a concrete advantage, as opposed to the pseudo-psychology thing that you're doing right now.

[Awaclus]

But would town benefit if you pushed through a plan that you don't actually believe is beneficial?

But seriously all this talk is pointless since we're almost certainly not going to do any claims. Awaclus knows this. He is not trying to convince anyone.

I can't be pushing through a plan while not trying to convince anyone.

[Awaclus]

Vote: faust actually

[SpaceAnemone]

I don't see his interest in claims and rationing out information as something that's exactly opposed to his usual stance, but it's definitely a departure from usual town-Awaclus.

It isn't a departure. I'm always all about making the decisions that give town a concrete advantage, as opposed to the pseudo-psychology thing that you're doing right now.

Show me where in my Plan A/Plan B outline above you think your version is "logical" and my is "pseudo-psychology".

My normal problem here is too much logic and not enough understanding of people being people, so even saying that I look like I think I get people is kind of neat, in a twisted way :-)

[SpaceAnemone]

This is true too. Usually Awaclus is all about how nobody should explain themselves/their votes/why to vote in a particular way in mafia. I don't see his interest in claims and rationing out information as something that's exactly opposed to his usual stance, but it's definitely a departure from usual town-Awaclus.

Maybe he's trying to mix things up because he's townie and realises he needs an additional string to his bow. Maybe he's scum Awaclus being bold in a way he doesn't realise doesn't sound like tedious!town!Awaclus. I think he does get a little more bold as scum sometimes, but someone who's more of a previous-game-geek should weigh in on that one.

Something about this post I don't like. I can't quite put my finger on it though.

+1 scum point for you.

Hi, I'm Space! I don't think we've actually played together in a completed game. People here often think I sound weird or self-conscious or too concerned with mechanics or something and then they lynch me. It's also possible that I sound "hedgey" in that post because I consider two possible sides rather than arbitrarily picking the first interpretation that flies into my head and arguing it. This is how my brain processes stuff, and is not alignment-indicative. Ask any of the people who scumread me almost every game... e and Robz are the two main culprits who come to mind.

[SpaceAnemone]

Does the rest of Europe/elsewhere in the world have a holiday today? I was going to take a look at who's talking lots vs little and stuff, then decided it wasn't fair to do it that way given that it's a bank holiday weekend with super-amazing-fantastic weather, then realised that maybe it's not for any other players :-P

Anyway, given that it's a holiday, I'm off to cycle up the river and have a swim now :-)

[Robz888]

I think Space already covered this but at a minimum we should delay the draft order claim until Day 2. We might have an Innocent Child by then.

[faust]

But would town benefit if you pushed through a plan that you don't actually believe is beneficial?

But seriously all this talk is pointless since we're almost certainly not going to do any claims. Awaclus knows this. He is not trying to convince anyone.

I can't be pushing through a plan while not trying to convince anyone.

I am confused. In your view, what exactly is it you are doing with regards to the plan to claim? I assumed that at least you yourself would say that you are trying to convince other people of it. Is that not the case?

[faust]

Does the rest of Europe/elsewhere in the world have a holiday today? I was going to take a look at who's talking lots vs little and stuff, then decided it wasn't fair to do it that way given that it's a bank holiday weekend with super-amazing-fantastic weather, then realised that maybe it's not for any other players :-P

Anyway, given that it's a holiday, I'm off to cycle up the river and have a swim now :-)

I don't have a holiday, but I will on Thursday (Ascension Day).

[Awaclus]

Show me where in my Plan A/Plan B outline above you think your version is "logical" and my is "pseudo-psychology".

Nowhere, that post is fine. The pseudo-psychology kicks in when you think you can know my alignment based on how "bold" or "tedious" I am.

[pingpongsam]

No, I agree with Hydrad. Something is amiss with Space. The overly polite attempt to patch that up is even fishier. Also feeling suspicious of faust for reasons I’d rather not outline today. No sense killing him D1 anyhow when scum does that for us at night. Not seeing how Awaclus is at all a good lynch. Mildly suspicious of someone else I’d rather not name atm but want to reread a bit and also not just let scum know where I stand entirely.

Pretty sure the scum team will put themselves before the end of D2.

[pingpongsam]

Out not put.

[faust]

Space is very much behaving like their normal self. Not saying there's something super townie about them, but the case that our hedgemasters Hydrad and PPS suggest is not there.

[2.71828.....]

I think space is town

[faust]

their normal self

Reading this again a suddenly became very confused about whether this should read "their normal self" or "their normal selves".

[Hydrad]

Space is very much behaving like their normal self. Not saying there's something super townie about them, but the case that our hedgemasters Hydrad and PPS suggest is not there.

hmm. Ok I'll keep this in mind.

[Robz888]

I second that Space seems incredibly normal Space-like this game.

[Robz888]

No, I agree with Hydrad. Something is amiss with Space. The overly polite attempt to patch that up is even fishier. Also feeling suspicious of faust for reasons I’d rather not outline today. No sense killing him D1 anyhow when scum does that for us at night. Not seeing how Awaclus is at all a good lynch. Mildly suspicious of someone else I’d rather not name atm but want to reread a bit and also not just let scum know where I stand entirely.

Pretty sure the scum team will put themselves before the end of D2.

You can't really say what's amiss with Space. You won't say what's amiss about faust. You say Awaclus is a bad lynch: why? Why worse than any other lynch? You're suspicious of someone else but won't name them. You think the scum team is going to out itself in the next day--why?

This is a bland and somewhat strange post, to say the least.

[Awaclus]

No, I agree with Hydrad. Something is amiss with Space. The overly polite attempt to patch that up is even fishier. Also feeling suspicious of faust for reasons I’d rather not outline today. No sense killing him D1 anyhow when scum does that for us at night. Not seeing how Awaclus is at all a good lynch. Mildly suspicious of someone else I’d rather not name atm but want to reread a bit and also not just let scum know where I stand entirely.

Pretty sure the scum team will put themselves before the end of D2.

You can't really say what's amiss with Space. You won't say what's amiss about faust. You say Awaclus is a bad lynch: why? Why worse than any other lynch? You're suspicious of someone else but won't name them. You think the scum team is going to out itself in the next day--why?

This is a bland and somewhat strange post, to say the least.

No, it's a good post.

[Cuzz]

their normal self

Reading this again a suddenly became very confused about whether this should read "their normal self" or "their normal selves".

"self" because this isn't a hydra game.

also I'm against claiming because I'm pro-fun and mafia is at it's worst when we waste pages and pages on D1 deciding not to massclaim and then subsequently don't massclaim.

[faust]

their normal self

Reading this again a suddenly became very confused about whether this should read "their normal self" or "their normal selves".

"self" because this isn't a hydra game.

also I'm against claiming because I'm pro-fun and mafia is at it's worst when we waste pages and pages on D1 deciding not to massclaim and then subsequently don't massclaim.

And it's at its best when you fervently discuss reads. So, want to share some?

[Cuzz]

their normal self

Reading this again a suddenly became very confused about whether this should read "their normal self" or "their normal selves".

"self" because this isn't a hydra game.

also I'm against claiming because I'm pro-fun and mafia is at it's worst when we waste pages and pages on D1 deciding not to massclaim and then subsequently don't massclaim.

And it's at its best when you fervently discuss reads. So, want to share some?

I’ll let you know when I have some.

[Xxraptorslayer96]

Sorry I’ve been slacking. I’ll do a full read through in a few hours.

[Jimmmmm]

No, I agree with Hydrad. Something is amiss with Space. The overly polite attempt to patch that up is even fishier. Also feeling suspicious of faust for reasons I’d rather not outline today. No sense killing him D1 anyhow when scum does that for us at night. Not seeing how Awaclus is at all a good lynch. Mildly suspicious of someone else I’d rather not name atm but want to reread a bit and also not just let scum know where I stand entirely.

Pretty sure the scum team will put themselves before the end of D2.

You can't really say what's amiss with Space. You won't say what's amiss about faust. You say Awaclus is a bad lynch: why? Why worse than any other lynch? You're suspicious of someone else but won't name them. You think the scum team is going to out itself in the next day--why?

This is a bland and somewhat strange post, to say the least.

I agree. Townread increased on Robz and decreased on pps. I don't see anything scummy about Space.

[Awaclus]

also I'm against claiming because I'm pro-fun and mafia is at it's worst when we waste pages and pages on D1 deciding not to massclaim and then subsequently don't massclaim.

If you want to prevent people deciding not to massclaim and then subsequently not massclaiming, you should be for claiming.

[Witherweaver]

You're actually increasing scum control if you let them know which people are good nightkills. That this is outweighed by the additional limitations on fakeclaiming is not obvious at all.

I totally agree with faust on this, and it's getting tiresome that Awaclus is sidestepping addressing the major downside with his "plan".

Vote: Awaclus

Awaclus getting tiresome is, like, completely independent from his alignment.

Usually he's getting tiresome for different reasons though!

This is true too. Usually Awaclus is all about how nobody should explain themselves/their votes/why to vote in a particular way in mafia. I don't see his interest in claims and rationing out information as something that's exactly opposed to his usual stance, but it's definitely a departure from usual town-Awaclus.

Maybe he's trying to mix things up because he's townie and realises he needs an additional string to his bow. Maybe he's scum Awaclus being bold in a way he doesn't realise doesn't sound like tedious!town!Awaclus. I think he does get a little more bold as scum sometimes, but someone who's more of a previous-game-geek should weigh in on that one.

Something about this post I don't like. I can't quite put my finger on it though.

+1 scum point for you.

This sounds somewhat townlike from Hydrad.

[Witherweaver]

their normal self

Reading this again a suddenly became very confused about whether this should read "their normal self" or "their normal selves".

"self" because this isn't a hydra game.

also I'm against claiming because I'm pro-fun and mafia is at it's worst when we waste pages and pages on D1 deciding not to massclaim and then subsequently don't massclaim.

So.. how about that weather, right?

[Witherweaver]

I second that Space seems incredibly normal Space-like this game.

Well certainly not timelike.

[Witherweaver]

Does the rest of Europe/elsewhere in the world have a holiday today? I was going to take a look at who's talking lots vs little and stuff, then decided it wasn't fair to do it that way given that it's a bank holiday weekend with super-amazing-fantastic weather, then realised that maybe it's not for any other players :-P

Anyway, given that it's a holiday, I'm off to cycle up the river and have a swim now :-)

I don't have a holiday, but I will on Thursday (Ascension Day).

Congratulations on your Ascension.

[Witherweaver]

No, I agree with Hydrad. Something is amiss with Space. The overly polite attempt to patch that up is even fishier. Also feeling suspicious of faust for reasons I’d rather not outline today. No sense killing him D1 anyhow when scum does that for us at night. Not seeing how Awaclus is at all a good lynch. Mildly suspicious of someone else I’d rather not name atm but want to reread a bit and also not just let scum know where I stand entirely.

Pretty sure the scum team will put themselves before the end of D2.

This seems overly overt about how close you're playing your cards to your chest.

[pingpongsam]

No, I agree with Hydrad. Something is amiss with Space. The overly polite attempt to patch that up is even fishier. Also feeling suspicious of faust for reasons I’d rather not outline today. No sense killing him D1 anyhow when scum does that for us at night. Not seeing how Awaclus is at all a good lynch. Mildly suspicious of someone else I’d rather not name atm but want to reread a bit and also not just let scum know where I stand entirely.

Pretty sure the scum team will put themselves before the end of D2.

You can't really say what's amiss with Space. You won't say what's amiss about faust. You say Awaclus is a bad lynch: why? Why worse than any other lynch? You're suspicious of someone else but won't name them. You think the scum team is going to out itself in the next day--why?

This is a bland and somewhat strange post, to say the least.

The one time I got Space as scum I just had a hunch from D1 on. They have never been scum in any other games I played and I’ve never had that hunch since. Today I have half a hunch and growing.

I don’t need to say what’s amiss with faust. He is doing the usual scum faust tactic of spreading FUD on all players. You can be sure we aren’t partners because he isn’t just blindly tunneling me.

Awaclus is a bad lynch because he didn’t actually do anything scummy other than play the game and a few votes fell his way and because it’s good ole D1 now he must be a good lynch because hey, what the hell else do we have?

We need polarizing and provocative posts like Awaclus and I are providing. Feel free to kill the obvtown at your own risk.

That’s right, I have reads and I am not required nor compulses to volunteer them for manipulation. Call it hedging if you must. I’ll circle back when the time is right to say so and so was scummy then when the time comes.

Meanwhile scum can’t help themselves trying to rig a lynch. The only way the team doesn’t out themselves by end of D2 is if they bus D1. I encourage them to bus D1, though. Otherwise, the trail will be there for those who can read it. Tracks are being made today, though. The whole point is that I think the lack of wagons at this point is problematic for scum.

[Witherweaver]

Vote: e

[Robz888]

Also feeling suspicious of faust for reasons I’d rather not outline today.

I don’t need to say what’s amiss with faust. He is doing the usual scum faust tactic of spreading FUD on all players. You can be sure we aren’t partners because he isn’t just blindly tunneling me.

Is that the reason you refused to outline? Why are you now outlining it? Some refusal.

[Xxraptorslayer96]

This is the first game that I have played where this type of clamming would be an option. So I wasn't super passionate about either side. After readying Space's "option A/B" post, I guess I think its best to wait till at least day 2 before calming.   

I came in last place in the draft order which was no surprise at all considering the subject matter. I bid one shot vig anyway so now I know for certain there is one in the game.

Vote: PPS

[faust]

But would town benefit if you pushed through a plan that you don't actually believe is beneficial?

But seriously all this talk is pointless since we're almost certainly not going to do any claims. Awaclus knows this. He is not trying to convince anyone.

I can't be pushing through a plan while not trying to convince anyone.

I am confused. In your view, what exactly is it you are doing with regards to the plan to claim? I assumed that at least you yourself would say that you are trying to convince other people of it. Is that not the case?

I take Awaclus' refusal to address this question as an admission of guilt.

[Awaclus]

I am confused. In your view, what exactly is it you are doing with regards to the plan to claim? I assumed that at least you yourself would say that you are trying to convince other people of it. Is that not the case?

Yeah, because it's a good plan. The only reason why this is confusing is that your case against me counters itself.

[faust]

I am confused. In your view, what exactly is it you are doing with regards to the plan to claim? I assumed that at least you yourself would say that you are trying to convince other people of it. Is that not the case?

Yeah, because it's a good plan. The only reason why this is confusing is that your case against me counters itself.

No, it is your case for you being town that counters itself.

[Awaclus]

I am confused. In your view, what exactly is it you are doing with regards to the plan to claim? I assumed that at least you yourself would say that you are trying to convince other people of it. Is that not the case?

Yeah, because it's a good plan. The only reason why this is confusing is that your case against me counters itself.

No, it is your case for you being town that counters itself.

My case for being town: I'm advocating for a good plan.

Your case for me being scum: I'm purposefully pretending to advocate for a plan without really trying to convince anyone to go for it because I already know it's not going to go through, which I wouldn't do as town because it might go through.

[faust]

I am confused. In your view, what exactly is it you are doing with regards to the plan to claim? I assumed that at least you yourself would say that you are trying to convince other people of it. Is that not the case?

Yeah, because it's a good plan. The only reason why this is confusing is that your case against me counters itself.

No, it is your case for you being town that counters itself.

My case for being town: I'm advocating for a good plan.

Your case for being town is this plus:

I think that is manipulatable and awaclus knows it.

That isn't a reason to think that I'm scum. Even if I wasn't really advocating for this plan (which I am), I would benefit from manipulating that as both alignments.

I have claimed that this statement isn't true, since town!you would not benefit from advocating a suboptimal plan. So you cannot counter e's accusation with it.

[faust]

So, to simplify: If you're pretenting, that implies that you are scum. Evidence suggests that you are pretending.

[Awaclus]

So, to simplify: If you're pretenting, that implies that you are scum. Evidence suggests that you are pretending.

If I'm pretending, that doesn't imply that I'm scum because I'm equally likely to do it as town.

I have claimed that this statement isn't true, since town!you would not benefit from advocating a suboptimal plan. So you cannot counter e's accusation with it.

Then scum!me would not benefit from it either, which makes e's accusation pointless to begin with.

[faust]

So, to simplify: If you're pretenting, that implies that you are scum. Evidence suggests that you are pretending.

If I'm pretending, that doesn't imply that I'm scum because I'm equally likely to do it as town.

I have claimed that this statement isn't true, since town!you would not benefit from advocating a suboptimal plan. So you cannot counter e's accusation with it.

Then scum!me would not benefit from it either, which makes e's accusation pointless to begin with.

Yes, scum!you would benefit. But the town as a whole and therefore town!you would not.

[Awaclus]

Yes, scum!you would benefit. But the town as a whole and therefore town!you would not.

If I'm townread, then town as a whole benefits from that.

[faust]

Yes, scum!you would benefit. But the town as a whole and therefore town!you would not.

If I'm townread, then town as a whole benefits from that.

Not at the expense of implementing a suboptimal plan.

[Awaclus]

Yes, scum!you would benefit. But the town as a whole and therefore town!you would not.

If I'm townread, then town as a whole benefits from that.

Not at the expense of implementing a suboptimal plan.

Your argument is that I'm not really trying to implement the plan because I know that it's not going to go through. You can't say that while making that argument.

[faust]

Yes, scum!you would benefit. But the town as a whole and therefore town!you would not.

If I'm townread, then town as a whole benefits from that.

Not at the expense of implementing a suboptimal plan.

Your argument is that I'm not really trying to implement the plan because I know that it's not going to go through. You can't say that while making that argument.

1. The only thing I have done here is uncovered a logical flaw in your answer to e's accusation. What arguments I make about your alignment does not matter at all for this.
2. You are misrepresenting my argument anyway. I am not saying you know this, obviously such things can never be known for sure. I'm saying you don't care if you're scum, but you would care if you're town.

[Awaclus]

Yes, scum!you would benefit. But the town as a whole and therefore town!you would not.

If I'm townread, then town as a whole benefits from that.

Not at the expense of implementing a suboptimal plan.

Your argument is that I'm not really trying to implement the plan because I know that it's not going to go through. You can't say that while making that argument.

1. The only thing I have done here is uncovered a logical flaw in your answer to e's accusation. What arguments I make about your alignment does not matter at all for this.
2. You are misrepresenting my argument anyway. I am not saying you know this, obviously such things can never be known for sure. I'm saying you don't care if you're scum, but you would care if you're town.

1) There is no logical flaw in my answer to e's accusation. e is saying that I'm scum because I'm just doing this for the towncred. That's a non-sequitur, because it is also in town's best interests to do things for the towncred. Pointing out that a non-sequitur is a non-sequitur is not a logical flaw.

2) I'm not misrepresenting your argument, you're backpedaling. You literally said that I know this.

Awaclus knows this.

[SpaceAnemone]

Survey time!

People who are not faust or Awaclus: do you think their discussion is alignment-indicative for:
a) Awaclus
b) Both
f) faust
n) Neither?

Bonus question
Are you reading their discussion for:
d) Detailed following of the logical arguments
g) Gist/tone
v) all of the aboVe
z) You fell asleep already.

[Robz888]

Survey time!

People who are not faust or Awaclus: do you think their discussion is alignment-indicative for:
a) Awaclus
b) Both
f) faust
n) Neither?

Bonus question
Are you reading their discussion for:
d) Detailed following of the logical arguments
g) Gist/tone
v) all of the aboVe
z) You fell asleep already.

I think Awaclus is wrong, but he could be wrong as town, and faust could be calling him out as scum. Unfortunately.

I'm mostly skimming now because faust is right and Awaclus is wrong.

[Awaclus]

I'm mostly skimming now because faust is right and Awaclus is wrong.

How is faust right? He isn't even being consistent with his own argument.

[iguanaiguana]

Vote Count 1.3

Xxraptorslayer96 (1): Hydrad
Hydrad (1): Jimmmmm
Robz888 (1): schadd
Awaclus (3): faust, SpaceAnemone, 2.71828...
Pingpongsam (2): Robz888, Xxraptorslayer96
faust (1): Awaclus
2.71828... (1): Witherweaver

Not Voting (3): pingpongsam, DatSwan, Cuzz

With 13 alive, i takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 lasts until Friday April 11 at 9 PM

*edited for correction reflecting pps at 2 votes

[2.71828.....]

It has been busy at work, I will get around to posting later

[Hydrad]

Survey time!

People who are not faust or Awaclus: do you think their discussion is alignment-indicative for:
a) Awaclus
b) Both
f) faust
n) Neither?

Bonus question
Are you reading their discussion for:
d) Detailed following of the logical arguments
g) Gist/tone
v) all of the aboVe
z) You fell asleep already.

1n

2g.

But at this point I don't think either is gaining ground. I wouldn't even say one is even wrong. But neither of them will probably change their mind so I don't think its going to make any progress.

[SpaceAnemone]

@Swan, schadd and Cuzz, would you three like to weigh in on the survey? I think you're all getting proddable at this point!

[pingpongsam]

1.f

2.g

[Cuzz]

@Swan, schadd and Cuzz, would you three like to weigh in on the survey? I think you're all getting proddable at this point!

N, Z

Also your survey labeling system is delightful.

[Jimmmmm]

Possibly f but probably n.

z

[Swowl]

@Swan, schadd and Cuzz, would you three like to weigh in on the survey? I think you're all getting proddable at this point!

sure!
I think that it is NAI for Faust in the sense that it happens all the time in Faust early game - so whatever.
I think it is AI for Awaclus in the sense that... well literally the exact opposite reason as Faust. And I have no idea which alignment it indicates.

Don't know which option from the bottom to put. I was reading to try and gain a feel of if the convo felt forced and/or if anything was "obv overlooked" or "incorrect".

IMO this is either TvT or SvT, but not SvS.... and I have no clue who would be more likely to be skum if it is SvT (I guess I would have to go Awaclus), but I actually just am going to wait for a later point in the game and "chalk it up" to the equivalent of NAI behavior on both sides for now.

[Swowl]

also regarding the PPS claim thing -
I do not really get what PPS would gain out of this as either Town or Skum.

Someone point out what I am missing? Why is it skummy? - I mean I see no reason to claim last pick and not VIG without any reason to on day 1 like this... but pretty much because I cant find a town motivation that is like the only reason it is skummy?

am i missing something?

[faust]

also regarding the PPS claim thing -
I do not really get what PPS would gain out of this as either Town or Skum.

What he gets out of it is the excitement of claiming something. That's all PPS really needs.

[Witherweaver]

I think it is AI for Awaclus in the sense that... well literally the exact opposite reason as Faust. And I have no idea which alignment it indicates.

I'm pretty sure that being alignment indicative with no idea which alignment it indicates is the same as it not being alignment indicative.

[Swowl]

also regarding the PPS claim thing -
I do not really get what PPS would gain out of this as either Town or Skum.

What he gets out of it is the excitement of claiming something. That's all PPS really needs.

so I can't tell if this is a joke or not lol

[Swowl]

I think it is AI for Awaclus in the sense that... well literally the exact opposite reason as Faust. And I have no idea which alignment it indicates.

I'm pretty sure that being alignment indicative with no idea which alignment it indicates is the same as it not being alignment indicative.

I mean that is kind of where I ended at in the post

Just wanted my thought process to be noted in case I come up with some realization or something down the road.

[Swowl]

MOD - VC 1.3 is incorrect. All votes are in the right place but PPS is only at a count of (1)

[faust]

also regarding the PPS claim thing -
I do not really get what PPS would gain out of this as either Town or Skum.

What he gets out of it is the excitement of claiming something. That's all PPS really needs.

so I can't tell if this is a joke or not lol

It' tongue-in-cheek, but really PPS is well-known for making all sorts of unnecessary claims as either alignment. When I was scum with him, he was positively obsessed about what to claim when.

[SpaceAnemone]

also regarding the PPS claim thing -
I do not really get what PPS would gain out of this as either Town or Skum.

What he gets out of it is the excitement of claiming something. That's all PPS really needs.

so I can't tell if this is a joke or not lol

It' tongue-in-cheek, but really PPS is well-known for making all sorts of unnecessary claims as either alignment. When I was scum with him, he was positively obsessed about what to claim when.

Yup, PPS is a player who likes things to be exciting. When I was scum with him, on my very first ever scum game, I ended up talking him out of claiming stuff.. it worked especially well because when caught (for a scum-slip) and lynched he mentioned that his partner had talked him out of stuff, and so most people thought it wouldn't have been the innocent noob :-)

This reminds me: I meant to point out that PPS's claim at #190 is a lie because he's been scum with me in NM8, though I guess he's more likely to have forgotten than actually lied on purpose.

[SpaceAnemone]

their normal self

Reading this again a suddenly became very confused about whether this should read "their normal self" or "their normal selves".

"Self" as a singular is good :-) I've come across plenty of people who object to the use of "they/them" as a singular pronoun because taking plural-sounding verb forms is too weird, partly because some languages use plural-sounding verbs and pronouns and stuff as a mark of importance... so I'm happiest to downplay the pluralness of the pronoun form in this case. Going as far as "they is" instead of "they are" is a bit too non-standard for my taste, though there are other ungendered pronoun sets that do take singular verb forms, and I guess those sound more normal with the self/selves issue too.

I might feel bad for such a big non-game-relevant distraction, but this game is stalling badly, so at least people accusing me of excess fluff will give us something to talk about :-P

(Also, Robz can scumread me for the emoticon).

[SpaceAnemone]

Anyone know what's up with schadd? He doesn't have an active VLA posted, but he did say he wasn't going to be participating much in D1.. which seems odd because I thought D1 shenanigans was the bit he tended to enjoy most. Hey @schadd, please exist some more :-)

[Robz888]

(Also, Robz can scumread me for the emoticon).

Nah I think you're town

[Hydrad]

Day 1 read list to do something I guess.

1  = town 10 = scum

1: Robz888 6.1(mild scum read)
2: 2.71828..... 5(yup)
3: Jimmmmm 6.3(just really for lurkiness i guess but thats pretty standard if I recall)
4: Hydrad 0(IC)
5: pingpongsam 4.5(pretty much neutral)
6: datswan 3.8(kinda like him so far)
7: Xxraptorslayer96 6(I have no past data to back this up)
8: Witherweaver 4.2(ur ok)
9: schadd 5(hasn't been able to be around much)
10: Cuzz 6.4(no real reason)
11: Awaclus 3.2(I actually like awaclus here)
12: Faust 6.7(scummiest read actually, mainly just because I don't feel like i'm getting the usual town!faust vibes I remember having. But at the same time I havn't played in a while that the vibes could be off. Plus scum likes to kill faust anyways so I don't think I'll vote here today)
13: SpaceAnemonie 4(ur now towny)

[faust]

(Also, Robz can scumread me for the emoticon).

Nah I think you're town

Woah that meme is even older than my f.ds lifespan.

[SpaceAnemone]

The deadline is not that much more than 48 hours away. I intend to go to bed by about 6pm forum time on Friday night because I have an early start on the Saturday. So can we have some good wagons starting around now, please?

I dislike pushing lurker lynches because when I'm super-busy I turn into a lurker too, and real life isn't that easy to control.

I'm in two minds about Awaclus; he's stubborn enough that he might be blinding himself to the obvious downsides, or he might be town in the top spot who's taken something the rest of us might not expect and thinks he can use this tactic to the benefit of town. Anyway, I'd happily move to a wagon with a stronger scum-case, if anyone's making cases.

Class List:
1: Robz888 -- (10 posts) not seeming scummy for now. I agree with him a lot. His case against PPS is about the most fleshed-out thing we've seen.
2: 2.71828..... -- (11 posts) Also not seeming scummy for now, but has taken up against Robz over PPS a little, which is at least interesting.
3: Jimmmmm -- (8 posts) Sparse, but keeping up and acting like a town (evolving reads).
4: Hydrad -- (21 posts) Super-active and chatty to start with. Sparse now. U-turns on claiming quite quickly after my explanation, but then kinda goes after me instead. Not super-townie, but also clearly someone who's missing the drafting-game meta from earlier drafts, so he has more to work out here than some of us do.
5: pingpongsam -- (7 posts) Very PPS-ish. Would consider voting for him, but equally would be happy leaving him be because even if he is scum, he's likely to do something wacky and out himself. I feel that way about the possibility of scum!PPS most games.
6: datswan -- (13 posts) Lends surprisingly much credence to Awaclus early on. Several posts are low-content or repeats. I like that he replied thoroughly to my little survey, though I disagree with some of his stance.
7: Xxraptorslayer96 -- (3 posts) Not much to go on!
8: Witherweaver -- (15 posts) "Congratulations on your Ascension" is my favourite post of the game so far. Why the vote on e after a whole string of posts engaging with other stuff in the game and not at all with e or anything he'd been saying?
9: schadd -- (5 posts) At least he's managed to include some townreads and a vote in there. Not sure why my question to Awaclus won a "hmmmm".
10: Cuzz -- (4 posts) Needs more content. Even if you ignore the "non-fun" mechanics discussions, there's enough out there to say some stuff about by now.
11: Awaclus -- (29 posts) I don't think he's being pro-town, but whether it's innate or calculated is harder to judge.
12: Faust -- (30 posts) Very fausty. He knows by now that I'll scumread him for bad logic, so it's not that surprising that he hasn't shown any. I keep agreeing with him on small comments and stuff, so I feel like it's a town brain behind his posts.
13: SpaceAnemone -- (21 posts) Being tied in third for most prolific poster over D1 is not normal for me, but enjoying talking about drafting stuff totally is. Spaaaaaace :-)

PPE 3: Aww, I'm not even the first person to go through the whole class list now!

[Hydrad]

also one thing you might not know about me space.

generally I'm a lurker. I can usually post a lot during the RVS stages of the game because those posts hold no weight. But once we start getting into the game I get scared to post as I always think that people might see the post I'm about to make as a scum post. So then I end up not posting anything.

I'm trying to fix it slowly by just kinda posting whatever i'm thinking and see how that does. But I expect i'll never be a high post count person.

[pingpongsam]

also regarding the PPS claim thing -
I do not really get what PPS would gain out of this as either Town or Skum.

What he gets out of it is the excitement of claiming something. That's all PPS really needs.

so I can't tell if this is a joke or not lol

It' tongue-in-cheek, but really PPS is well-known for making all sorts of unnecessary claims as either alignment. When I was scum with him, he was positively obsessed about what to claim when.

Yup, PPS is a player who likes things to be exciting. When I was scum with him, on my very first ever scum game, I ended up talking him out of claiming stuff.. it worked especially well because when caught (for a scum-slip) and lynched he mentioned that his partner had talked him out of stuff, and so most people thought it wouldn't have been the innocent noob :-)

This reminds me: I meant to point out that PPS's claim at #190 is a lie because he's been scum with me in NM8, though I guess he's more likely to have forgotten than actually lied on purpose.

I didn’t forget nor did I lie. The whole point I was making revolved around scum reading you when I can’t know your alignment. Clearly if we are partners I know your alignment and don’t need to read you to figure it out. For anyone still unclear Space’s first game was as a scum partner with me.

[pingpongsam]

Vote: faust

[Cuzz]

also one thing you might not know about me space.

generally I'm a lurker. I can usually post a lot during the RVS stages of the game because those posts hold no weight. But once we start getting into the game I get scared to post as I always think that people might see the post I'm about to make as a scum post. So then I end up not posting anything.

I'm trying to fix it slowly by just kinda posting whatever i'm thinking and see how that does. But I expect i'll never be a high post count person.

vote: Hydrad

This is the kind of scummy post that scum makes thinking they would say the same thing as town when they actually wouldn’t.

[Robz888]

I am sort of getting a scum read on Hydrad FWIW. Lots of try-hard posts that say very little, and the attempt at overly-precise reads seems forced.

Vote: Hydrad

[Hydrad]

also one thing you might not know about me space.

generally I'm a lurker. I can usually post a lot during the RVS stages of the game because those posts hold no weight. But once we start getting into the game I get scared to post as I always think that people might see the post I'm about to make as a scum post. So then I end up not posting anything.

I'm trying to fix it slowly by just kinda posting whatever i'm thinking and see how that does. But I expect i'll never be a high post count person.

vote: Hydrad

This is the kind of scummy post that scum makes thinking they would say the same thing as town when they actually wouldn’t.

see and this is kinda what I thought when I posted it. But I decided to go with it anyways and I don't regret it. This is new Hydrad who will attempt to not lurk as much but might get lynched for sounding scummy.

wow what an improvment.

Anyways I guess I should move my vote to somewhere useful

Vote: Robz had a bit of a read before and feel slightly like your jumping on me to start a wagon. Which is fine, just find it kinda scummy.

[Robz888]

I'm not starting a wagon. I'm joining a wagon.

[Witherweaver]

I am sort of getting a scum read on Hydrad FWIW. Lots of try-hard posts that say very little, and the attempt at overly-precise reads seems forced.

Vote: Hydrad

Could you explain/exemplify overly-precise reads?

[Hydrad]

I'm not starting a wagon. I'm joining a wagon.

Sorry thats what I meant. I usually view the 2nd or 3rd person jumping on a wagon as a bit more scummy. sorry I explained it poorly

[Robz888]

I am sort of getting a scum read on Hydrad FWIW. Lots of try-hard posts that say very little, and the attempt at overly-precise reads seems forced.

Vote: Hydrad

Could you explain/exemplify overly-precise reads?

He used decimal pts on the "how scummy, 1-10" scale for ppl:

Day 1 read list to do something I guess.

1  = town 10 = scum

1: Robz888 6.1(mild scum read)
2: 2.71828..... 5(yup)
3: Jimmmmm 6.3(just really for lurkiness i guess but thats pretty standard if I recall)
4: Hydrad 0(IC)
5: pingpongsam 4.5(pretty much neutral)
6: datswan 3.8(kinda like him so far)
7: Xxraptorslayer96 6(I have no past data to back this up)
8: Witherweaver 4.2(ur ok)
9: schadd 5(hasn't been able to be around much)
10: Cuzz 6.4(no real reason)
11: Awaclus 3.2(I actually like awaclus here)
12: Faust 6.7(scummiest read actually, mainly just because I don't feel like i'm getting the usual town!faust vibes I remember having. But at the same time I havn't played in a while that the vibes could be off. Plus scum likes to kill faust anyways so I don't think I'll vote here today)
13: SpaceAnemonie 4(ur now towny)

[Witherweaver]

Hasn't he been doing that for a long time?

[Robz888]

Has he? If so I’ve just noticed

[Hydrad]

Hasn't he been doing that for a long time?

I feel like I started to do it in my last like 10ish games I played.

But the last games I played were really long ago.

Also I remember robz didn't play much when I did so theres a chance hes never been in a game I've done it in.

[schadd]

their normal self

Reading this again a suddenly became very confused about whether this should read "their normal self" or "their normal selves".

"self" because this isn't a hydra game.

also I'm against claiming because I'm pro-fun and mafia is at it's worst when we waste pages and pages on D1 deciding not to massclaim and then subsequently don't massclaim.

this is probably town

Survey time!

People who are not faust or Awaclus: do you think their discussion is alignment-indicative for:
a) Awaclus
b) Both
f) faust
n) Neither?

Bonus question
Are you reading their discussion for:
d) Detailed following of the logical arguments
g) Gist/tone
v) all of the aboVe
z) You fell asleep already.

i feel like u want to lynch one of them

i would say i definitely don't pull anything from it for faust

Anyone know what's up with schadd? He doesn't have an active VLA posted, but he did say he wasn't going to be participating much in D1.. which seems odd because I thought D1 shenanigans was the bit he tended to enjoy most. Hey @schadd, please exist some more :-)

end of school year

where are there shenanigans happening

Day 1 read list to do something I guess.

1  = town 10 = scum

1: Robz888 6.1(mild scum read)
2: 2.71828..... 5(yup)
3: Jimmmmm 6.3(just really for lurkiness i guess but thats pretty standard if I recall)
4: Hydrad 0(IC)
5: pingpongsam 4.5(pretty much neutral)
6: datswan 3.8(kinda like him so far)
7: Xxraptorslayer96 6(I have no past data to back this up)
8: Witherweaver 4.2(ur ok)
9: schadd 5(hasn't been able to be around much)
10: Cuzz 6.4(no real reason)
11: Awaclus 3.2(I actually like awaclus here)
12: Faust 6.7(scummiest read actually, mainly just because I don't feel like i'm getting the usual town!faust vibes I remember having. But at the same time I havn't played in a while that the vibes could be off. Plus scum likes to kill faust anyways so I don't think I'll vote here today)
13: SpaceAnemonie 4(ur now towny)

how r me and jimm different

I am sort of getting a scum read on Hydrad FWIW. Lots of try-hard posts that say very little, and the attempt at overly-precise reads seems forced.

Vote: Hydrad

Could you explain/exemplify overly-precise reads?

He used decimal pts on the "how scummy, 1-10" scale for ppl:

Day 1 read list to do something I guess.

1  = town 10 = scum

1: Robz888 6.1(mild scum read)
2: 2.71828..... 5(yup)
3: Jimmmmm 6.3(just really for lurkiness i guess but thats pretty standard if I recall)
4: Hydrad 0(IC)
5: pingpongsam 4.5(pretty much neutral)
6: datswan 3.8(kinda like him so far)
7: Xxraptorslayer96 6(I have no past data to back this up)
8: Witherweaver 4.2(ur ok)
9: schadd 5(hasn't been able to be around much)
10: Cuzz 6.4(no real reason)
11: Awaclus 3.2(I actually like awaclus here)
12: Faust 6.7(scummiest read actually, mainly just because I don't feel like i'm getting the usual town!faust vibes I remember having. But at the same time I havn't played in a while that the vibes could be off. Plus scum likes to kill faust anyways so I don't think I'll vote here today)
13: SpaceAnemonie 4(ur now towny)

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=9069739#p9069739

off the top of my head

[Hydrad]

how r me and jimm different

I've played a bit with Jimmm and never really with you.

[faust]

Request prod on Raptor

Vote: Raptor

[faust]

Hydrad is town btw.

[faust]

So is Robz, but his reads are kinda bad.

[Swowl]

I agree that Hydrad (while only like one game with them) seems towny at this point.
Also - super agree that Robz is probably town.

[Swowl]

@Awaclus, what's to stop scum claiming each other's slots in this plan you're promoting?

Nothing. It's still better than nothing.

Why does it matter? Lets say Skum A claims the role of Skum B,  and then we kill Skum B... we still kill Skum. In what world would a plan where the only downside is "killing the wrong skum" be a bad option? I am not saying that that is the only downside, just basing it on the quoted interaction.

The problem is that the objective of the plan is not to lynch scum, it is to reduce fakelclaiming options for them.

re reading a way back here because I just realized there is like less than 48 hours left. but...
It is day one man. I get the objective is to lynch skum at all times, but can't we be like moderately realistic and at least hedge the best town play for the time being? Or not, but still your point is not well thought through.

[Swowl]

Considering I have already claimed, I could produce a claim order. I hereby decree it should be the sign up order!

Would skum!PPS say this? (real question)

[Swowl]

has no one actually brought of the option of Skum!PPS knowing the barracks (or whatever they are called in this game) and there being Vig in it?

[Swowl]

did anyone else get last in the draft pos? I don't see a downside in asking that. I mean it supposedly narrows skum's kill range from probably that person, but this early on the potential CC is most likely more useful.

I am just having trouble wrapping my head around why Town would claim anything this way. It just doesn't seem to be pro town. Maybe VT making stirring up a ruckus for responses? but... what role makes sense as Town to do this and also still have a PR? Maybeeeeeee the same concept but as D2IC... maybe... but that is all I can think of.

Currently I am at either VT or Skum for PPS.

I am going with

Vote: PPS

[faust]

has no one actually brought of the option of Skum!PPS knowing the barracks (or whatever they are called in this game) and there being Vig in it?

It doesn't really matter. PPS has claimed last spot and noone countered him. He can claim basically anything from there.

[Cuzz]

also one thing you might not know about me space.

generally I'm a lurker. I can usually post a lot during the RVS stages of the game because those posts hold no weight. But once we start getting into the game I get scared to post as I always think that people might see the post I'm about to make as a scum post. So then I end up not posting anything.

I'm trying to fix it slowly by just kinda posting whatever i'm thinking and see how that does. But I expect i'll never be a high post count person.

vote: Hydrad

This is the kind of scummy post that scum makes thinking they would say the same thing as town when they actually wouldn’t.

see and this is kinda what I thought when I posted it.

scumslip

I'm good with where my vote is for today.

[faust]

also one thing you might not know about me space.

generally I'm a lurker. I can usually post a lot during the RVS stages of the game because those posts hold no weight. But once we start getting into the game I get scared to post as I always think that people might see the post I'm about to make as a scum post. So then I end up not posting anything.

I'm trying to fix it slowly by just kinda posting whatever i'm thinking and see how that does. But I expect i'll never be a high post count person.

vote: Hydrad

This is the kind of scummy post that scum makes thinking they would say the same thing as town when they actually wouldn’t.

see and this is kinda what I thought when I posted it.

scumslip

I'm good with where my vote is for today.

This is silly which probably means Cuzz is town.

[pingpongsam]

Cuzz is mostly lurky and looking to place votes opportunistically. Now, I can't claim to know much on his town meta but this is well in line with his scum meta.

[pingpongsam]

If anything, if one flips scum I'd immediately suspect the other because of this interaction.

[Cuzz]

Cuzz is mostly lurky and looking to place votes opportunistically. Now, I can't claim to know much on his town meta but this is well in line with his scum meta.

It’s pretty much all the same.

[Xxraptorslayer96]

Request prod on Raptor

Vote: Raptor

I’m here, sorry for lurking. I just felt like I can’t contribute much to the conversation. I haven’t played with majority of you before and don’t know play styles. Hard to get first day reads.

I still like my PPS vote for the claim

[SpaceAnemone]

WW has made a bunch of posts, but not a lot of personal analysis of others' play. Plenty of commenting negative ways on other players' comments, but that's not really the same thing.

I'm mostly just singling him out at the moment because his vote seems to be in a bit of an odd unexplained place and I'd like more explanation for that.

[SpaceAnemone]

Space Count, as of #254:

Hydrad (3): Jimmmmm, Cuzz, Robz888
Robz888 (2): schadd, Hydrad
Awaclus (3): faust, SpaceAnemone, 2.71828.....
faust (2): Awaclus, pingpongsam
2.71828..... (1): Witherweaver
pingpongsam (2): Xxraptorslayer96, DatSwan

[Witherweaver]

also one thing you might not know about me space.

generally I'm a lurker. I can usually post a lot during the RVS stages of the game because those posts hold no weight. But once we start getting into the game I get scared to post as I always think that people might see the post I'm about to make as a scum post. So then I end up not posting anything.

I'm trying to fix it slowly by just kinda posting whatever i'm thinking and see how that does. But I expect i'll never be a high post count person.

vote: Hydrad

This is the kind of scummy post that scum makes thinking they would say the same thing as town when they actually wouldn’t.

see and this is kinda what I thought when I posted it.

scumslip

I'm good with where my vote is for today.

...

[Witherweaver]

WW has made a bunch of posts, but not a lot of personal analysis of others' play. Plenty of commenting negative ways on other players' comments, but that's not really the same thing.

I'm mostly just singling him out at the moment because his vote seems to be in a bit of an odd unexplained place and I'd like more explanation for that.

I have an alternative pitch, vote with me, lynch e, and if he flips scum no explanation is needed!

[iguanaiguana]

Vote Count 1.4

Hydrad (1): Jimmmmm
Robz888 (2): schadd, Hydrad
Awaclus (2): SpaceAnemone, 2.71828...
Pingpongsam (2): Xxraptorslayer96, DatSwan
faust (2): Awaclus, pingpongsam
2.71828... (1): Witherweaver
Hydrad (2): Cuzz, Robz888
Xxraptorslayor96 (1): faust

With 13 alive, i takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 lasts until Friday April 11 at 9 PM

[iguanaiguana]

Vote Count 1.4*

Hydrad (3): Jimmmmm, Cuzz, Robz888
Robz888 (2): schadd, Hydrad
Awaclus (2): SpaceAnemone, 2.71828...
Pingpongsam (2): Xxraptorslayer96, DatSwan
faust (2): Awaclus, pingpongsam
2.71828... (1): Witherweaver
Xxraptorslayor96 (1): faust

With 13 alive, i takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 lasts until Friday April 11 at 9 PM

*Mod Note: Fixed listing Hydrad twice above.

[pingpongsam]

I'm trying to decide if I should sheep WW or vote him because I just realized he is in the game and he should have already rankled me at least 3 times by now.

[Hydrad]

so like 24 hours right?

Vote: Raptor

also I have no idea how to judge cuzz. it seems towny but would he be aware enough to be doing this as scum?

[Witherweaver]

so like 24 hours right?

Vote: Raptor

also I have no idea how to judge cuzz. it seems towny but would he be aware enough to be doing this as scum?

What is 'this'?

[Witherweaver]

I'm trying to decide if I should sheep WW or vote him because I just realized he is in the game and he should have already rankled me at least 3 times by now.

I'm trying to cut down on my rankling. It was getting really out of hand.

[Hydrad]

actually

Vote: e

PPE:2

[Hydrad]

so like 24 hours right?

Vote: Raptor

also I have no idea how to judge cuzz. it seems towny but would he be aware enough to be doing this as scum?

What is 'this'?

ah sorry the "scumslip" thing on me. I guess I should have been more specific.

[Swowl]

Faust - come vote PPS with me.

[Swowl]

has no one actually brought of the option of Skum!PPS knowing the barracks (or whatever they are called in this game) and there being Vig in it?

It doesn't really matter. PPS has claimed last spot and noone countered him. He can claim basically anything from there.

right i had mentioned (few posts prior to this, sorry) that I was reading a bit back.
I mean to say - "I find it strange that at the time of the claim with all the discussion that took place around it and what it could mean... that no one brought up the Fairy Place Option Thing."

[Swowl]

also one thing you might not know about me space.

generally I'm a lurker. I can usually post a lot during the RVS stages of the game because those posts hold no weight. But once we start getting into the game I get scared to post as I always think that people might see the post I'm about to make as a scum post. So then I end up not posting anything.

I'm trying to fix it slowly by just kinda posting whatever i'm thinking and see how that does. But I expect i'll never be a high post count person.

vote: Hydrad

This is the kind of scummy post that scum makes thinking they would say the same thing as town when they actually wouldn’t.

see and this is kinda what I thought when I posted it.

scumslip

I'm good with where my vote is for today.

This is silly which probably means Cuzz is town.

I.... I don't get it lol.
I am like 98% sure it also doesn't matter, but I don't get it.

[Swowl]

I'm trying to decide if I should sheep WW or vote him because I just realized he is in the game and he should have already rankled me at least 3 times by now.

turn him into a sheep, then rankle him, then vote him.

[faust]

Faust - come vote PPS with me.

No. He's towny.

[faust]

Space Count, as of #254:

Hydrad (3): Jimmmmm, Cuzz, Robz888
Robz888 (2): schadd, Hydrad
Awaclus (3): faust, SpaceAnemone, 2.71828.....
faust (2): Awaclus, pingpongsam
2.71828..... (1): Witherweaver
pingpongsam (2): Xxraptorslayer96, DatSwan

I think your program doesn't register Raptor votes.

[Witherweaver]

Space Count, as of #254:

Hydrad (3): Jimmmmm, Cuzz, Robz888
Robz888 (2): schadd, Hydrad
Awaclus (3): faust, SpaceAnemone, 2.71828.....
faust (2): Awaclus, pingpongsam
2.71828..... (1): Witherweaver
pingpongsam (2): Xxraptorslayer96, DatSwan

I think your program doesn't register Raptor votes.

Raptors can vote? Clever girl...

[SpaceAnemone]

Space Count, as of #254:

Hydrad (3): Jimmmmm, Cuzz, Robz888
Robz888 (2): schadd, Hydrad
Awaclus (3): faust, SpaceAnemone, 2.71828.....
faust (2): Awaclus, pingpongsam
2.71828..... (1): Witherweaver
pingpongsam (2): Xxraptorslayer96, DatSwan

I think your program doesn't register Raptor votes.

I think it's just your Raptor vote! When it recognises there's a vote but doesn't match the alias, it tells me so, and i add it to the known alias list for next time. However, it can fail to notice that there's a vote at all if there's other stuff on earlier lines of text within the same bolding tag. So few people do that that I haven't gotten round to fixing the issue yet...

[faust]

Request prod on e I think.

I have townreads on lots of people, so I would kinda want to lynch a lurker.

[faust]

Then of course we could always lynch Awaclus. He's not helping getting any more useful activity in here either.

[faust]

So yeah, Raptor, e, Awaclus. That sounds like a decent lynchpool.

[Awaclus]

So yeah, Raptor, e, Awaclus. That sounds like a decent lynchpool.

Faust sounds like a better lynchpool.

[Swowl]

This is where I am at so far. Post count discounts pregame but includes RVS:

SpaceAnemonie (25) Top town read at this point. Interactions regarding the claim made sense, thinking through said claim ideas look towny.. pretty much with the exception of our opinions in reads list, I like everything so far from her.

Witherweaver (21) Half posts are meant to be jokes (funny jokes)... and I have no idea what to do with that. Normally he is more aggressive, but I have only played with Skum!WW or PR!WW. Town for now.

Robz888 (12) I am town reading at this point because he shares my like... exact detailed skepticism on the PPS claim

Cuzz (7) The only interaction he has been in is with Robz and it came out to me a brief ridiculous TvT one. So Town for now.

Faust (41) The only thing I have at all that is weird is that they opened with saying "we could potentially have the 1 shot vig claim" and then like... the 1 shot vig essentially claimed. other than that seems usual town.

Jimmmmm  ( Good points about the claims in the beginning. Reads scale the same as mine, which (while bias) makes me lean town.

Xxraptorslayer96 - I have played exactly one game with him when he was skum, and in that game he did in fact lurk... like a lot. But until the end almost all his posts were coached - or at least influenced. He gets on the skum list bc in games I have played with him where he has been town he has generally been more interactive. But I do not have faith in a read one way or another. Also complete honesty, I am aware that both he and Schadd are students and finals are in session so that is playing into my reads.

schadd (6) I am nulling this on principle. Also complete honesty, I am aware that both he and XXR are students and finals are in session so that is playing into my reads.

Awaclus (29) Opening actually seemed towny to me. The way he just on-boarded with Hydrad saying "yeah you are right lets just do draft orders" does not. Then there is Hydrad later agreeing with Awaclus. but as much as I want to read him/them as skum for it, it could still be TvT. Null?

Hydrad (27) All over the map. Claim then no claim. In for doing stuff, but only if people want to. IDK at this point because all the reasoning makes sense, just the way it is presented seems skummy. Although that thought is correlated to skummy reads on the people they are interacting with, so again.. Null/Skummy.

2.71828..... (10) opens with the I am ok with claims, but not that claim, but this claim is towny thing. Actually pretty much my second choice at this point.

pingpongsam (12) - Kill it. Burn it. Bury it in the back yard. Talked to much about it already.

So yeah - I would prefer E! or PPS today.

[faust]

So yeah, Raptor, e, Awaclus. That sounds like a decent lynchpool.

Faust sounds like a better lynchpool.

To scum it does.

[Awaclus]

So yeah, Raptor, e, Awaclus. That sounds like a decent lynchpool.

Faust sounds like a better lynchpool.

To scum it does.

No, to town.

[Cuzz]

So yeah, Raptor, e, Awaclus. That sounds like a decent lynchpool.

Faust sounds like a better lynchpool.

To scum it does.

No, to town.

Please stop this.

[Awaclus]

So yeah, Raptor, e, Awaclus. That sounds like a decent lynchpool.

Faust sounds like a better lynchpool.

To scum it does.

No, to town.

Please stop this.

Stop what, scumreading faust? No.

[2.71828.....]

Sorry about the inactivity. I still like my awaclus vote but will go almost anywhere to get a lynch today.

[faust]

I cannot make the deadline by the way. I'm happy to switch to whichever of Awaclus/e/Raptor is most likely to go throguh, but at this point it's hard for me to see. I would liek input from everyone as to which of these they would vote for.

[Robz888]

Vote: Raptor

[Jimmmmm]

Is there a case for Raptor besides that they're lurking? They have like 3 posts.

[Robz888]

Is there a case for Raptor besides that they're lurking? They have like 3 posts.

There is not.

[Jimmmmm]

Well I'll vote for them to get a lynch through, but it's kind of a nothing lynch.

[Jimmmmm]

There's not much on e either. This post is the only one that jumps out.

Advocating for a D1 claim is usually something that will generate an automatic D1 pass from me, but even more generally I think we do not tend to lynch those who come out with bold crazy plans (whether it inflates post count, activity, etc we tend to find them townie enough not to lynch D1).  I think that is manipulatable and awaclus knows it.

Vote: Awaclus

I don't really like this case on Awaclus, although I'm not sure if it makes e scummy. I'll re-read Awaclus.

[Jimmmmm]

Oh just realised there were other votes on Hydrad. Unvote as it was RVS.

[Jimmmmm]

Re-read Awaclus. I dunno, he just sounds like Awaclus. While I disagree with his mass draft order claim plan, I don't buy the argument that he's only pushing for it for Towncred.

[Jimmmmm]

I actually think both Awaclus and faust are probably Town. Which means we go for a lurker lynch?

[Jimmmmm]

Cuzz is another lurker option. His most significant post is this:

also one thing you might not know about me space.

generally I'm a lurker. I can usually post a lot during the RVS stages of the game because those posts hold no weight. But once we start getting into the game I get scared to post as I always think that people might see the post I'm about to make as a scum post. So then I end up not posting anything.

I'm trying to fix it slowly by just kinda posting whatever i'm thinking and see how that does. But I expect i'll never be a high post count person.

vote: Hydrad

This is the kind of scummy post that scum makes thinking they would say the same thing as town when they actually wouldn’t.

I kind of relate to Hydrad on this, but I'm not sure I would say it as either alignment. I dunno where that leaves me on Cuzz...

[Jimmmmm]

No I think Hydrad is Towny and Cuzz is scummy for voting for him. I would think Robz was scummy for sheeping but I think Robz is otherwise Towny.

[Jimmmmm]

I'll Vote: Cuzz for now.

I'm going to bed. I should definitely be around by deadline but might be a little busy.

[Cuzz]

Cuzz is another lurker option. His most significant post is this:

also one thing you might not know about me space.

generally I'm a lurker. I can usually post a lot during the RVS stages of the game because those posts hold no weight. But once we start getting into the game I get scared to post as I always think that people might see the post I'm about to make as a scum post. So then I end up not posting anything.

I'm trying to fix it slowly by just kinda posting whatever i'm thinking and see how that does. But I expect i'll never be a high post count person.

vote: Hydrad

This is the kind of scummy post that scum makes thinking they would say the same thing as town when they actually wouldn’t.

I kind of relate to Hydrad on this, but I'm not sure I would say it as either alignment. I dunno where that leaves me on Cuzz...

it kinda sounds like you're mostly agreeing with me

[Awaclus]

Cuzz is another lurker option. His most significant post is this:

also one thing you might not know about me space.

generally I'm a lurker. I can usually post a lot during the RVS stages of the game because those posts hold no weight. But once we start getting into the game I get scared to post as I always think that people might see the post I'm about to make as a scum post. So then I end up not posting anything.

I'm trying to fix it slowly by just kinda posting whatever i'm thinking and see how that does. But I expect i'll never be a high post count person.

vote: Hydrad

This is the kind of scummy post that scum makes thinking they would say the same thing as town when they actually wouldn’t.

I kind of relate to Hydrad on this, but I'm not sure I would say it as either alignment. I dunno where that leaves me on Cuzz...

it kinda sounds like you're mostly agreeing with me

It doesn't sound like that to me.

[Jimmmmm]

Cuzz is another lurker option. His most significant post is this:

also one thing you might not know about me space.

generally I'm a lurker. I can usually post a lot during the RVS stages of the game because those posts hold no weight. But once we start getting into the game I get scared to post as I always think that people might see the post I'm about to make as a scum post. So then I end up not posting anything.

I'm trying to fix it slowly by just kinda posting whatever i'm thinking and see how that does. But I expect i'll never be a high post count person.

vote: Hydrad

This is the kind of scummy post that scum makes thinking they would say the same thing as town when they actually wouldn’t.

I kind of relate to Hydrad on this, but I'm not sure I would say it as either alignment. I dunno where that leaves me on Cuzz...

it kinda sounds like you're mostly agreeing with me

I said I probably wouldn't say it. You said it's alignment indicative, I'm saying it's not.

[Jimmmmm]

I'm really going to bed now.

[faust]

We haven't made a lot of progress here. And I will only be around for like 20 more minutes.

[faust]

So. 2 votes on e, 2 on Awaclus, 2 on Raptor. Well one of the Raptor votes is me, so I guess moving away increases some other wagon to three votes. That's not super great either.

[Hydrad]

Ya. Well I'll be here for hammer so I can swap also. But ya there isn't really any wagons that are big at all yet. This is weird

[Robz888]

I am willing to move.

[faust]

Well I'd prefer to be rid of someone who isn't even playing. But maybe we can get a replacement.

[faust]

Puh, rules state it takes three prods for replacement. Well Raptor's 24-hour period is over in half an hour, not sure if I will still be around then. But I would appreciate if someone could prod him for me.

[faust]

I think I like staying on Raptor best.

[Xxraptorslayer96]

I think I like staying on Raptor best.

Okay.. I’ll post more. Sorry long week, and slow day one.

[Xxraptorslayer96]

Day 1 is always boring in my experience. I don’t have any good reads. I will be around for day end I believe.

[Cuzz]

Yeah I could vote for whoever too to get a lynch through but I won't be around much this evening. faust seems townie, but could do pps, Awaclus, raptor, others...

[Swowl]

I will be done coaching i think like 30 mins prior to DL. I’ll be there then. I am on PPS - could do E!

[Hydrad]

I think we have like 2 hours right? we need to pick something.

[2.71828.....]

vote: Raptor

wagons that aren't me

[SpaceAnemone]

Meh.. I agree that Raptor is definitely undercontributing. OTOH, in my previous experience of Awaclus, I feel his tunnel on faust is likely to continue in a not-necessarily-rational way. I'm not 100% sure my reasoning at the moment is going along the lines of "which rather non-pro-town townie do I care less about losing", which isn't good scumhunting.

Vote: Raptor

I'm going to have to leave it there.. sleep beckons and I'm serious shattered.

[SpaceAnemone]

Gah.. should have written PPE there.

Am just about to run a vote count to make sure I've not just L-1'd.. still haven't fixed the bug faust was pointing out this morning, though.

[SpaceAnemone]

Space Count as of #321 (as usual, not guaranteed 100% accurate, but I've corrected faust's vote manually)

Robz888 (1): schadd
faust (2): Awaclus, pingpongsam
2.71828..... (2): Witherweaver, Hydrad
pingpongsam (2): Xxraptorslayer96, DatSwan
Hydrad (1): Cuzz
Xxraptorslayer96 (4): faust, Robz888, 2.71828....., SpaceAnemone
Cuzz (1): Jimmmmm

[Jimmmmm]

If I'm not mistaken deadline is in just over an hour. I highly doubt any other lynch will gain enough traction, so I'll join Vote: Raptor

[Jimmmmm]

That should be L-2 according to Space's vote count.

[Robz888]

This quiet of an end of day probably means Raptor is town.

[2.71828.....]

This quiet of an end of day probably means Raptor is town.

do you have someone else you want to switch to? 

[Hydrad]

Vote: raptor

L-1 i believe

[Robz888]

Well, basically anyone, but I don’t think we would get the votes.

[Robz888]

I mean, I’m around if people are.

[Robz888]

We are also not going to have time to deal with claims, unfortunately. Which makes me want to lynch PPS a little more. Any takers?

[Xxraptorslayer96]

I’m VT. Kinda screwed myself by not being more active. This is mast post of the day. Good luck fellow team!

[Jimmmmm]

I’m VT. Kinda screwed myself by not being more active. This is mast post of the day. Good luck fellow team!

Draft number?

[pingpongsam]

Vote: Cuzz

[Hydrad]

we have 15 minutes

[Cuzz]

vote: raptor is good.

[Swowl]

Is that hammer?

[iguanaiguana]

Day One Final Vote Count

Robz888 (1): schadd
Pingpongsam (2): Xxraptorslayer96, DatSwan
faust (1): Awaclus
2.71828... (1): Witherweaver
Xxraptorslayor96 (7): faust, Robz888, 2.71828..., SpaceAnemone, Jimmmmm, Hydrad, Cuzz
Cuzz (1): pingpongsam

With 13 alive, it took 7 to lynch. Night 1 begins now and last until lasts until Sunday April 13 at 9 PM.

Xxraptorslayer96 was Poppy Kline a student at Breakbills University.

Thread locked!

[mcmcsalot]

Faust was killed in the night, he was Kady Orloff-Diaz the Student aligned Ninja

Day 2 Starts now and ends May 20 at 9pm

[mcmcsalot]

Vote Count 2.0

Not Voting (11): Robz888, 2.71828....., Jimmmmm, Hydrad, pingpongsam, DatSwan, Witherweaver, schadd, Cuzz, Awaclus, SpaceAnemonie

With 11 alive, it took 6 to lynch. Day 2 begins now and last until lasts until Sunday May 20 at 9 PM.

[Swowl]

well my inability to read faust continues, because I was ending yesterday leaning on a skummy vibe.
more importantly,

1) Station 1 is taken
2) Strong man could be in barracks (note in case skum got it)
3) We... really... like really need to look into the PPS claim thing. If he was Town Vig I assume he would of shot last night right?
4) the fact there is no IC post means that there is no D2 IC - correct?

[Swowl]

Day One Final Vote Count

Robz888 (1): schadd
Pingpongsam (2): Xxraptorslayer96, DatSwan
faust (1): Awaclus
2.71828... (1): Witherweaver
Xxraptorslayor96 (7): faust, Robz888, 2.71828..., SpaceAnemone, Jimmmmm, Hydrad, Cuzz
Cuzz (1): pingpongsam

With 13 alive, it took 7 to lynch. Night 1 begins now and last until lasts until Sunday April 13 at 9 PM.

Xxraptorslayer96 was Poppy Kline a student at Breakbills University.

Thread locked!

Also, while it may be a large pool, I like the idea of looking more closely at [schadd, Awaclus, WW, PPS] in regards to a lynch pool. This is acting under the assumption that there was not all 3 skum on the wagon.

[Witherweaver]

well my inability to read faust continues, because I was ending yesterday leaning on a skummy vibe.
more importantly,

1) Station 1 is taken
2) Strong man could be in barracks (note in case skum got it)
3) We... really... like really need to look into the PPS claim thing. If he was Town Vig I assume he would of shot last night right?
4) the fact there is no IC post means that there is no D2 IC - correct?

Scum-like post.

[Robz888]

well my inability to read faust continues, because I was ending yesterday leaning on a skummy vibe.
more importantly,

1) Station 1 is taken
2) Strong man could be in barracks (note in case skum got it)
3) We... really... like really need to look into the PPS claim thing. If he was Town Vig I assume he would of shot last night right?
4) the fact there is no IC post means that there is no D2 IC - correct?

Point number 3 is absolutely false. A smart town vig would not have shot last night.

So I actually did some re-reading last night--can you believe it? I'm trying as town, wow!--and I came away utterly convinced Jimmm is scum. Vote: Jimmmm

[Robz888]

Reasons: His high level of activity relative to usual Jimmmm, his series of late day posts where he tried to have very well-thought out, subtle and sophisticated opinions on everyone, and also the fact that his vote was one of the most critical in guaranteeing a lynch of Raptor, who looked very much like town by the end.

But the main thing is a gut feeling I can't shake.

[Witherweaver]

I think Robz is town.

[Robz888]

Lovin' all the support. Back it up with a Jimmm vote!

[Witherweaver]

I still haven't read the last part of yesterday.

[Jimmmmm]

Reasons: His high level of activity relative to usual Jimmmm, his series of late day posts where he tried to have very well-thought out, subtle and sophisticated opinions on everyone, and also the fact that his vote was one of the most critical in guaranteeing a lynch of Raptor, who looked very much like town by the end.

But the main thing is a gut feeling I can't shake.

See, the problem with having a lurker meta is that attempts to break that meta are met with suspicion. What can you do. I offer no apology for that or for helping get a lynch through. A Town lurker lynch is way better than no lynch.

[Swowl]

well my inability to read faust continues, because I was ending yesterday leaning on a skummy vibe.
more importantly,

1) Station 1 is taken
2) Strong man could be in barracks (note in case skum got it)
3) We... really... like really need to look into the PPS claim thing. If he was Town Vig I assume he would of shot last night right?
4) the fact there is no IC post means that there is no D2 IC - correct?

it is skummy because you disagree Station 1 is taken?
or... because I felt the need to point out Strong Man?
or... because (gonna ask Robz on clarification for PPS thing, but aside that) my PPS read?
or... because I wanted to clarify the IC thing?
Scum-like post.

[2.71828.....]

Reasons: His high level of activity relative to usual Jimmmm, his series of late day posts where he tried to have very well-thought out, subtle and sophisticated opinions on everyone, and also the fact that his vote was one of the most critical in guaranteeing a lynch of Raptor, who looked very much like town by the end.

But the main thing is a gut feeling I can't shake.

I didn't get this feeling from end of day jimmmmm at all. I think he went to sleep, woke up before the deadline, voted somewhere to help ensure a lynch.

[2.71828.....]

 And yes, by the few hours it was starting to feel like raptor was town with everything that you (robz) pointed out, but we kind of shot our self in the foot with the level of activity,  of which I am one of the primary culprits.

Getting a lynch is always better than no lynch D1, but I do think we need to look on wagon for the lynch today. Raptor was a very comfortable place for scum to hang out at

[2.71828.....]

And speaking of hanging out on the raptor wagon, vote: Robz

[Awaclus]

Also, while it may be a large pool, I like the idea of looking more closely at [schadd, Awaclus, WW, PPS] in regards to a lynch pool. This is acting under the assumption that there was not all 3 skum on the wagon.

If 2 scum were on the wagon, and 1 scum is in your pool (which conveniently excludes yourself), lynching from the wagon is still way better odds than lynching out of that pool.

[Swowl]

Also, while it may be a large pool, I like the idea of looking more closely at [schadd, Awaclus, WW, PPS] in regards to a lynch pool. This is acting under the assumption that there was not all 3 skum on the wagon.

If 2 scum were on the wagon, and 1 scum is in your pool (which conveniently excludes yourself), lynching from the wagon is still way better odds than lynching out of that pool.

You would be an excellent poker player.

[Hydrad]

welp this is why I never try to lynch faust. scum just kills him if hes town.

I feel bad for him though that this keep happening to him.

anyways I like

Vote: e for now.

although theres another person who I think might be scummy but I'm going to think about it for a bit more before I make an accusation.

[pingpongsam]

Robz is town. Meanwhile the scum team is e, space, and probably Datswan.

I can do the Vote: e thing, though.

[Jimmmmm]

Happy to Vote: e

[Witherweaver]

well my inability to read faust continues, because I was ending yesterday leaning on a skummy vibe.
more importantly,

1) Station 1 is taken
2) Strong man could be in barracks (note in case skum got it)
3) We... really... like really need to look into the PPS claim thing. If he was Town Vig I assume he would of shot last night right?
4) the fact there is no IC post means that there is no D2 IC - correct?

it is skummy because you disagree Station 1 is taken?
or... because I felt the need to point out Strong Man?
or... because (gonna ask Robz on clarification for PPS thing, but aside that) my PPS read?
or... because I wanted to clarify the IC thing?
Scum-like post.

Why do you need to know?

[Witherweaver]

Robz is town. Meanwhile the scum team is e, space, and probably Datswan.

I can do the Vote: e thing, though.

*peers inquisitively*

[2.71828.....]

That was a fast little wagon there started by hydrad hedgemaster. "I will vote e for now to see how it goes, but I have other options in case people don't like that wagon"

Don't worry hydrad, looks like you have a winner with my wagon.

[2.71828.....]

 Also, why are we voting me? Because I was on wagon and inactive yesterday? I mean, that's a perfectly good reason to vote for me, I just want to know if there is anything else

[2.71828.....]

well my inability to read faust continues, because I was ending yesterday leaning on a skummy vibe.
more importantly,

1) Station 1 is taken
2) Strong man could be in barracks (note in case skum got it)
3) We... really... like really need to look into the PPS claim thing. If he was Town Vig I assume he would of shot last night right?
4) the fact there is no IC post means that there is no D2 IC - correct?

1/2) ninja could have been picked up in the barracks (however unlikely), and talk about what is/isnt in the barracks is probably best saved for any potential claiming we might do

3) Vigs shouldn't shoot. Town 101. It is super fun to shoot, but it really shouldn't happen N1.

[iguanaiguana]

Vote Count 2.1

Jimmmmm (1): Robz888
Robz888 (1): 2.71828...
2.71828... (3): Hydrad, pingpongsam, Jimmmmm

Not Voting (6): DatSwan, Witherweaver, schadd, Cuzz, Awaclus, SpaceAnemone

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 lasts until Sunday May 20 at 9 PM.

[SpaceAnemone]

A smart town vig would not have shot last night.

I agree with this part.

So I actually did some re-reading last night--can you believe it? I'm trying as town, wow!--and I came away utterly convinced Jimmm is scum. Vote: Jimmmm

You were also on Jimmmmm yesterday, right up to point that you switched to the Raptor mislynch. Is this just a continuation of yesterday's tunnel at all?

[SpaceAnemone]

Reasons: His high level of activity relative to usual Jimmmm, his series of late day posts where he tried to have very well-thought out, subtle and sophisticated opinions on everyone, and also the fact that his vote was one of the most critical in guaranteeing a lynch of Raptor, who looked very much like town by the end.

But the main thing is a gut feeling I can't shake.

I didn't get this feeling from end of day jimmmmm at all. I think he went to sleep, woke up before the deadline, voted somewhere to help ensure a lynch.

What timezone is Jimmmmm in? Or rather, what time was the deadline in Jimmmmm-land?

[SpaceAnemone]

although theres another person who I think might be scummy but I'm going to think about it for a bit more before I make an accusation.

This is almost as helpful as PPS's super "I know something you don't know" post from D1, and you saw how well that went down. What are you hoping to achieve by signalling that you have thoughts you're just not willing to share?

[SpaceAnemone]

well my inability to read faust continues, because I was ending yesterday leaning on a skummy vibe.
more importantly,

1) Station 1 is taken
2) Strong man could be in barracks (note in case skum got it)
3) We... really... like really need to look into the PPS claim thing. If he was Town Vig I assume he would of shot last night right?
4) the fact there is no IC post means that there is no D2 IC - correct?

1/2) ninja could have been picked up in the barracks (however unlikely), and talk about what is/isnt in the barracks is probably best saved for any potential claiming we might do

3) Vigs shouldn't shoot. Town 101. It is super fun to shoot, but it really shouldn't happen N1.

Yes, vigs shouldn't shoot, but I guess Swan's assumption is more about whether vig!PPS would shoot, and that's not the same thing at all.

@PPS, do you have any games around here were you were vig so we can see how much restraint you typically show in holding your shot?

[Jimmmmm]

Reasons: His high level of activity relative to usual Jimmmm, his series of late day posts where he tried to have very well-thought out, subtle and sophisticated opinions on everyone, and also the fact that his vote was one of the most critical in guaranteeing a lynch of Raptor, who looked very much like town by the end.

But the main thing is a gut feeling I can't shake.

I didn't get this feeling from end of day jimmmmm at all. I think he went to sleep, woke up before the deadline, voted somewhere to help ensure a lynch.

What timezone is Jimmmmm in? Or rather, what time was the deadline in Jimmmmm-land?

I'm in Melbourne (UTC + 10). The deadline was at 11am I think.

[Jimmmmm]

Reasons: His high level of activity relative to usual Jimmmm, his series of late day posts where he tried to have very well-thought out, subtle and sophisticated opinions on everyone, and also the fact that his vote was one of the most critical in guaranteeing a lynch of Raptor, who looked very much like town by the end.

But the main thing is a gut feeling I can't shake.

I didn't get this feeling from end of day jimmmmm at all. I think he went to sleep, woke up before the deadline, voted somewhere to help ensure a lynch.

What timezone is Jimmmmm in? Or rather, what time was the deadline in Jimmmmm-land?

I'm in Melbourne (UTC + 10). The deadline was at 11am I think.

Oh and I was up at like 3am trying to get some rereads done.

[SpaceAnemone]

I'm in Melbourne (UTC + 10). The deadline was at 11am I think.

Aha, that's different! 14 hours ahead of forum time, yes? My train of thought had been that it was a funny suggestion of e's that you could have gone to sleep and woken up before deadline, but I guess if you're in a radically different timezone and also up at all hours then you're just unpredictable :-P

Anyone else in non-US timezones, apart from me, faust and Awaclus in Europe? It could be kind of relevant if we're looking at finger-pointing around deadline timings.

[Witherweaver]

I'm in Tokyo; 13 hours ahead of forum time.

[Robz888]

You were also on Jimmmmm yesterday, right up to point that you switched to the Raptor mislynch. Is this just a continuation of yesterday's tunnel at all?

This is not at all true, I don't think I expressed any opinion on Jimm whatsoever until just now. What on earth are you talking about?

[pingpongsam]

Never been a vig before.

[Cuzz]

Never been a vig before.

me neither. been vigged plenty though

[Awaclus]

Aha, that's different! 14 hours ahead of forum time, yes?

I'm in Tokyo; 13 hours ahead of forum time.

Can we stop using forum time as a timezone? I never have any idea what it is and I can't even google it.

[Robz888]

Aha, that's different! 14 hours ahead of forum time, yes?

I'm in Tokyo; 13 hours ahead of forum time.

Can we stop using forum time as a timezone? I never have any idea what it is and I can't even google it.

Anything to say about your dead wrong read on faust?

[Awaclus]

Aha, that's different! 14 hours ahead of forum time, yes?

I'm in Tokyo; 13 hours ahead of forum time.

Can we stop using forum time as a timezone? I never have any idea what it is and I can't even google it.

Anything to say about your dead wrong read on faust?

I didn't expect faust to make a logically incoherent argument as town. Simple as that.

[SpaceAnemone]

You were also on Jimmmmm yesterday, right up to point that you switched to the Raptor mislynch. Is this just a continuation of yesterday's tunnel at all?

This is not at all true, I don't think I expressed any opinion on Jimm whatsoever until just now. What on earth are you talking about?

Um. Yeah, I have no idea! That's a bit worrying :-/

I remember updating my rolling record of voting states, re-reading early D2, scrolling back to see what the history of votes on Jimmmmm was, and and noticing that you'd been on him a lot early D1. Right now, that's not what my voting state summary says at all, so I'm terribly confused. I guess I was more in need of sleep than I'd realised. Apologies!!

[SpaceAnemone]

Aha, that's different! 14 hours ahead of forum time, yes?

I'm in Tokyo; 13 hours ahead of forum time.

Can we stop using forum time as a timezone? I never have any idea what it is and I can't even google it.

I like "forum time" because a) it's used by most mods to dictate deadlines; and b) it's exactly the time shown by the clock in the top right of the webpage page. So that's why I keep using it. For me, referencing everything to the frame of time the game is actually running in makes the most sense, because it requires the fewest extra calculations.

Having mods state deadlines in a more European timezone like UTC would highlight the fact that most of the deadlines are infeasible for Europeans who need to be awake for usual work hours, so I could get behind that plan to a certain extent :-) Not sure it's going to get support from the vast US contingent, or out friends in the far east/south.

Personally, I find UTC weird because it's sometimes my timezone and sometimes not.. I don't know what proportion of players live somewhere where the clocks change for summer/winter, but if it's most of us, then that's an argument for picking a clock in a place where it's the same time of day at the same reference time as consistently as possible. Forum time shifts back and forth an hour slightly out of synch with the UK, but only by a week or two.

[Awaclus]

I like "forum time" because a) it's used by most mods to dictate deadlines; and b) it's exactly the time shown by the clock in the top right of the webpage page. So that's why I keep using it. For me, referencing everything to the frame of time the game is actually running in makes the most sense, because it requires the fewest extra calculations.

a) Can most mods also stop using it to dictate deadlines because I never have any idea what time deadlines are; and b) no, the time shown by the clock in the top right of the webpage is my own timezone, not "forum time".

The forum also has a pretty useful feature that lets you post the time in your own timezone and it will then display it for everyone else in their own respective timezones. I don't know why people don't use it.

[SpaceAnemone]

I like "forum time" because a) it's used by most mods to dictate deadlines; and b) it's exactly the time shown by the clock in the top right of the webpage page. So that's why I keep using it. For me, referencing everything to the frame of time the game is actually running in makes the most sense, because it requires the fewest extra calculations.

a) Can most mods also stop using it to dictate deadlines because I never have any idea what time deadlines are; and b) no, the time shown by the clock in the top right of the webpage is my own timezone, not "forum time".

The forum also has a pretty useful feature that lets you post the time in your own timezone and it will then display it for everyone else in their own respective timezones. I don't know why people don't use it.

If you go to your profile, under "Look and Layout" there's a time offset option. I left mine set to zero, and presumably that's why it defaults to displaying forum time. Perhaps if you play around on there then you'll find a way to make it display forum time for you, given that you're presumably already posting from a device capable of telling you what your local time is so it's redundant to have f.ds just tell you your own time...

[SpaceAnemone]

anyways I like

Vote: e for now.

You, e and Robz are in a little triangle of voting each other. What's your read on Robz?

[SpaceAnemone]

Gah, my vote counter sucks in this game. It doesn't get Robz's Jimmmmm vote either, so I'm just going by mod vote counts till I have free time to fix it :-(

[Awaclus]

If you go to your profile, under "Look and Layout" there's a time offset option. I left mine set to zero, and presumably that's why it defaults to displaying forum time. Perhaps if you play around on there then you'll find a way to make it display forum time for you, given that you're presumably already posting from a device capable of telling you what your local time is so it's redundant to have f.ds just tell you your own time...

I don't care about the time in the top right corner, I care about posting timestamps, which also depend on that setting.

[2.71828.....]

Feels really slow. I will try to elaborate on a robz case later

[Robz888]

anyways I like

Vote: e for now.

You, e and Robz are in a little triangle of voting each other. What's your read on Robz?

We are NOT in a voting triangle, I am voting for Jimmm, as everyone else should be. Stop *clapping emoji* erasing *clapping emoji* my lived *clapping emoji* experience *clapping emoji* !

[2.71828.....]

anyways I like

Vote: e for now.

You, e and Robz are in a little triangle of voting each other. What's your read on Robz?

We are NOT in a voting triangle, I am voting for Jimmm, as everyone else should be. Stop *clapping emoji* erasing *clapping emoji* my lived *clapping emoji* experience *clapping emoji* !

Robz seems fairly excited about something. I can't quite figure it out

[SpaceAnemone]

anyways I like

Vote: e for now.

You, e and Robz are in a little triangle of voting each other. What's your read on Robz?

We are NOT in a voting triangle, I am voting for Jimmm, as everyone else should be. Stop *clapping emoji* erasing *clapping emoji* my lived *clapping emoji* experience *clapping emoji* !

You're voting Jimmmmm, Jimmmmm's voting e, and e's voting you, which is a triangle. My post would have been totally accurate had I not clicked "reply" on the wrong message because Hydrad and Jimmmmm have such similar-looking icons and the posts were right next to each other. So on the plus side, I can work out where my error came from. On the minus side, I do seem to be erasing your lived experience, for which I apologise again :-(

[Cuzz]

anyways I like

Vote: e for now.

You, e and Robz are in a little triangle of voting each other. What's your read on Robz?

We are NOT in a voting triangle, I am voting for Jimmm, as everyone else should be. Stop *clapping emoji* erasing *clapping emoji* my lived *clapping emoji* experience *clapping emoji* !

Robz seems fairly excited about something. I can't quite figure it out

It appears to be the 1996 action-thriller Eraser. Schwarzenegger's performance was certainly applause-worthy.

[SpaceAnemone]

@Jimmmmm, you're the one whose opinion of Robz I was actually asking for.

Though Hydrad and PPS, you're also on e, so I guess I'm interested in your answers too. I recall that Robz wasn't one of PPS's hypothesized scumteam, but I can also guarantee that at he can't be 100% certain of thoat set because at least one of them is wrong.

[SpaceAnemone]

It appears to be the 1996 action-thriller Eraser. Schwarzenegger's performance was certainly applause-worthy.

While you're here, how about some reads? :-)

[Cuzz]

It appears to be the 1996 action-thriller Eraser. Schwarzenegger's performance was certainly applause-worthy.

While you're here, how about some reads? :-)

I kinda don’t have any. But you seem townie for asking. So I have one I guess.

[Hydrad]

That was a fast little wagon there started by hydrad hedgemaster. "I will vote e for now to see how it goes, but I have other options in case people don't like that wagon"

Don't worry hydrad, looks like you have a winner with my wagon.

bahahaha. ya it was kinda surprising how that took off.

Don't worry I'm just waiting for a tiny bit more before I talk about my other read. probably later tonight I will. Sorry I,m not doing it right away but there is a reason that I hope people will understand.

[Hydrad]

although theres another person who I think might be scummy but I'm going to think about it for a bit more before I make an accusation.

This is almost as helpful as PPS's super "I know something you don't know" post from D1, and you saw how well that went down. What are you hoping to achieve by signalling that you have thoughts you're just not willing to share?

Sorry. ya maybe I shouldn't have said anything until I decided to talk about it. I'll talk about it really soon though.

plus conversation right? that can't be bad I hope.

[Hydrad]

i'm In US timezone... but my schedule is pretty ever changing right now...

as I kinda sometimes stay up all night. So my times are pretty random.

[Cuzz]

vote: jimmmmm

I like the Robz sheep here

[Swowl]

A smart town vig would not have shot last night.

I agree with this part.

So normally I would agree with you, but as he essentially "claimed the role" - wouldn't PPS assume they were going to be the Target of the NK last night?

[Robz888]

A smart town vig would not have shot last night.

I agree with this part.

So normally I would agree with you, but as he essentially "claimed the role" - wouldn't PPS assume they were going to be the Target of the NK last night?

It's not really the most threatening PR for scum.

[Hydrad]

A smart town vig would not have shot last night.

I agree with this part.

So normally I would agree with you, but as he essentially "claimed the role" - wouldn't PPS assume they were going to be the Target of the NK last night?

even if he full claimed it scum probably doesn't mind it to much.

also he hasn't really claimed it. hes just saying it at least exists in the game. If anything since hes position 13 there is a high chance hes a VT.

[Swowl]

A smart town vig would not have shot last night.

I agree with this part.

So normally I would agree with you, but as he essentially "claimed the role" - wouldn't PPS assume they were going to be the Target of the NK last night?

even if he full claimed it scum probably doesn't mind it to much.

also he hasn't really claimed it. hes just saying it at least exists in the game. If anything since hes position 13 there is a high chance hes a VT.

OK I actually did not think it through - he is more likely to shoot incorrectly than correctly so why would he get the NK (check on that one, thatnks).

But the last part bothers me - If he is saying that he 100% knows it is in the game because he went that station and it was taken... why couldn't the other person who bid that station just of gone for the other PR? (cuz only one power can be taken from each slot)

[Hydrad]

But the last part bothers me - If he is saying that he 100% knows it is in the game because he went that station and it was taken... why couldn't the other person who bid that station just of gone for the other PR? (cuz only one power can be taken from each slot)

ya that part is still possible. I'm not sure if he didn't know thats how it worked or if he didn't feel like saying both of them or whatever. But ya basically we know there is at least a Vig or a rolestopper in the game. as long as PPS is telling the truth.

[Witherweaver]

I like Vote: DatSwan

[Swowl]

I like Vote: DatSwan

Whysies?

[Jimmmmm]

@Jimmmmm, you're the one whose opinion of Robz I was actually asking for.

I still lean Town on him. I think his sudden apparently strong scum read on me was at least in part to see what reactions he'd get (I hope it's not too soon for me to point that out). The only potential bite he got was Cuzz, who I still lean scum on.

[Witherweaver]

I like Vote: DatSwan

Whysies?

I got slipped a note in class saying that I should.

[Swowl]

I like Vote: DatSwan

Whysies?

I got slipped a note in class saying that I should.

... from?

[Hydrad]

ok so I've been saying I suspect someone for a couple days now.

I think I've waited long enough to let you know who it is.

I believe the person is WW. I think he is scum.

And I also would like WW to tell me if he is a VT or not.

Vote: WW

i'll also say that I still like e for voting but i'd say an e vote is like 20% sure where as for WW i'd bump it to like 70%.

[Witherweaver]

ok so I've been saying I suspect someone for a couple days now.

I think I've waited long enough to let you know who it is.

I believe the person is WW. I think he is scum.

And I also would like WW to tell me if he is a VT or not.

Vote: WW

i'll also say that I still like e for voting but i'd say an e vote is like 20% sure where as for WW i'd bump it to like 70%.

Well I'm not going to tell you that. But I can tell you that I'm not a one-shot PGO.

[Witherweaver]

And I can now tell you guys that Hydrad is fairly likely town.

[Swowl]

ok so I've been saying I suspect someone for a couple days now.

I think I've waited long enough to let you know who it is.

I believe the person is WW. I think he is scum.

And I also would like WW to tell me if he is a VT or not.

Vote: WW

i'll also say that I still like e for voting but i'd say an e vote is like 20% sure where as for WW i'd bump it to like 70%.

Well I'm not going to tell you that. But I can tell you that I'm not a one-shot PGO.

will you answer me?

[Swowl]

And I can now tell you guys that Hydrad is fairly likely town.

agreed.

[Witherweaver]

ok so I've been saying I suspect someone for a couple days now.

I think I've waited long enough to let you know who it is.

I believe the person is WW. I think he is scum.

And I also would like WW to tell me if he is a VT or not.

Vote: WW

i'll also say that I still like e for voting but i'd say an e vote is like 20% sure where as for WW i'd bump it to like 70%.

Well I'm not going to tell you that. But I can tell you that I'm not a one-shot PGO.

will you answer me?

Nope!

[pingpongsam]

Hydrad was always town. Tell us something that wasn’t obvious already. Pretty sure WW is town, too, though even without the rankling.

[pingpongsam]

Totes fine with a Datswan lyncheroonie as well.

[Hydrad]

Hydrad was always town. Tell us something that wasn’t obvious already. Pretty sure WW is town, too, though even without the rankling.

But now that means I'm like supertown.

I call dibs on being the day 2 IC now even if one didn't appear.

[Witherweaver]

Hydrad was always town. Tell us something that wasn’t obvious already. Pretty sure WW is town, too, though even without the rankling.

It was not obvious that it is now more obvious.

[2.71828.....]

So. Robz.

D1 he starts with the "joke" about claiming then says it is bad until D2.

He moves around to a few different people early (which is normal Robz D1), then when the options for lynch seem to narrow to myself, raptor, or Awaclus he votes Raptor and stays there until the end.

Fairly non-descript D1 for Robz, but that isn't too surprising. It isn't necessarily scummy, but there are a few things I think point to scum!Robz:
1) the whole mass claim joke seemed forced.
2) his position in and about the raptor wagon. He votes Raptor early(ish) for his lurking/inactivity but then as the lynch looks more and more inevitable he makes strong statements about raptor being town. Again, forced.

And now he comes out D2 with the confidence of a cop saying everyone should vote jimmmmm but gives no explanation. It all just feels suspicious to me

[iguanaiguana]

Vote Count 2.2

Jimmmmm (2): Robz888, Cuzz
Robz888 (1): 2.71828...
2.71828... (2): pingpongsam, Jimmmmm
Datswan (1): Witherweaver
Witherweaver (1): Hydrad

Not Voting (4): DatSwan, schadd, Awaclus, SpaceAnemone

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 lasts until Sunday May 20 at 9 PM.

Mod note: Prod sent to schadd

[Hydrad]

Unvote

for now. my read on WW is changing i think. dang it.

[Robz888]

So. Robz.

D1 he starts with the "joke" about claiming then says it is bad until D2.

He moves around to a few different people early (which is normal Robz D1), then when the options for lynch seem to narrow to myself, raptor, or Awaclus he votes Raptor and stays there until the end.

Fairly non-descript D1 for Robz, but that isn't too surprising. It isn't necessarily scummy, but there are a few things I think point to scum!Robz:
1) the whole mass claim joke seemed forced.
2) his position in and about the raptor wagon. He votes Raptor early(ish) for his lurking/inactivity but then as the lynch looks more and more inevitable he makes strong statements about raptor being town. Again, forced.

And now he comes out D2 with the confidence of a cop saying everyone should vote jimmmmm but gives no explanation. It all just feels suspicious to me

Lol. Alright, I think I'm sufficiently outed. Probably I was already. And I'm not going to get the Jimmmm lynch through without revealing more, since there just isn't really a case to make on him.

I know Jimmmm is scum for PR reasons.

Should I reveal my draft number before we go to night, given that I'm highly likely to die now?

[Hydrad]

oh well i'll jump on that wagon.

Vote: Jimmm

[2.71828.....]

Unvote

The only PR that can give that type of confidence is alignment cop (maybe tracker/watcher but that still shouldn't be 100% confidence like Robz seems to have), and I still don't get the whole joke about claiming on D1 if Robz is indeed the cop.

Unless he is the JOAT 1-shot version. Which actually makes sense with mass claiming so he knows who to reload with that shot.

Ok, I am fine with Robz maintaining ambiguity in whether he is JOAT/2-shot cop and following him to lynch jimmmmm.

Vote: Jimmmmm

[2.71828.....]

And I think not revealing your draft number is fine.

[pingpongsam]

Vote: Jimmmmm

[2.71828.....]

ok so I've been saying I suspect someone for a couple days now.

I think I've waited long enough to let you know who it is.

I believe the person is WW. I think he is scum.

And I also would like WW to tell me if he is a VT or not.

Vote: WW

i'll also say that I still like e for voting but i'd say an e vote is like 20% sure where as for WW i'd bump it to like 70%.

Unless we want to mass claim today I think we wait on additional claims.

Your read is noted and if you get NKed and flip tracker/watcher/motion detector/something then we can go from there based on your reads.

Right now we have multiple ambiguous PR claims that could be many things. I like having scum guessing which PR is best to NK

[2.71828.....]

That's L-1

I would like a few more reactions/interactions before a lynch.

That's just me though.

[pingpongsam]

Thanks for catching the L-1, did not know we were that close to a lynch. Thought I was #4. Missed the cuzz vote.

[Jimmmmm]

Vote: Jimmmmm

[pingpongsam]

e, why don't you tell me why you seem so scummy if you're not scum

[2.71828.....]

e, why don't you tell me why you seem so scummy if you're not scum

Creative differences in playstyle.

And I guess Jimmmm is scum

[Robz888]

I agree that E seems scummy.

[Robz888]

Gonna keep my draft number secret. Come at me, scum!

[iguanaiguana]

Day 2 Final Vote Count

Jimmmmm (6): Robz888, Cuzz, Hydrad, 2.71828..., pingpongsam, Jimmmmm
Datswan (1): Witherweaver

Not Voting (4): DatSwan, schadd, Awaclus, SpaceAnemone

With 11 alive, it took 6 to lynch.

[iguanaiguana]

Jimmmmm was The Beast, an Evil Being aligned tracker.

Night 2 starts now and lasts until 12:15PM on Friday, May 18.

Thread Locked.

[mcmcsalot]

Night will be extended due to the need to find a sub.

[mcmcsalot]

Witherweaver has died in the night. He was Margo Hansen, a student aligned vanilla townie.



Also schadd has been replaced by idontplaythisgame

[mcmcsalot]

Vote Count 3.0

Not Voting (9): Robz888, 2.71828...., Hydrad, pingpongsam, DatSwan, idontplaythisgame, Cuzz, Awaclus, SpaceAnemone

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 starts now and ends May 25 at 3:00pm

[Robz888]

Sweet, I'm still alive.

No one cast any actual votes until I say otherwise, please.

I think it's quite possible I should lead a massclaim today.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Sweet, I'm still alive.

No one cast any actual votes until I say otherwise, please.

I think it's quite possible I should lead a massclaim today.

Why? I've yet to see how it helps.

mods: schadd is not not voting, I'm not voting.

[mcmcsalot]

Sweet, I'm still alive.

No one cast any actual votes until I say otherwise, please.

I think it's quite possible I should lead a massclaim today.

Why? I've yet to see how it helps.

mods: schadd is not not voting, I'm not voting.

fixed

[Hydrad]

hurrah. that went well.

[Hydrad]

Sweet, I'm still alive.

No one cast any actual votes until I say otherwise, please.

I think it's quite possible I should lead a massclaim today.

Intriguing. I don't really mind this though.

If we are going to claim this is probably a good time since robz is probably going to eat a NK soon anyways so our other PRs will probably do pretty well still.

[Hydrad]

Also welcome Idontplaythisgame.

I can't recall if I've ever played with you. glgl tho.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Also welcome Idontplaythisgame.

I can't recall if I've ever played with you. glgl tho.

I'm not sure either. I was dead by the time you replaced into M115.

[Hydrad]

well either way. WW death seems. odd. but I'll take it.

[SpaceAnemone]

Cool. The non-Robz kill presumably means that scum don't have all the PRs that could have protected Robz. Strongman might be out of the game given that faust's role came from that slot.

I think D3 is a good time for mass-claims. Since we have a clear IC, I like the idea of him dictating claiming order. We're early enough in the day that we could feasibly do it in a couple of rounds like we've done previously, to minimise how much info there is out there for scum to base fake-claims off.

[SpaceAnemone]

I'm slightly VLA this weekend in that I'm up in Birmingham because CheesyJelly is getting married tomorrow :-)

[Robz888]

On second thought I think we probably shouldn’t massclaim. Instead, I will propose a massclaim order to be used tomorrow, presuming I will be dead by then.

[Swowl]

So here is where I am at in regards to the night actions last night:

1) Skum chose to not shoot Robz
- Why: I think the only answer is that they have a blocking role and they found it more efficient to block Robz and kill someone else. This could mean either...
a) They were worried Robz would be protected at night. So RB/JK blocks Robz and they kill elsewhere.
b) They were trying to be efficient with kills and get Robz to waste second shot and not waste a NK.
c) A combination of both.

2) Skum did try to shoot Robz
- Why: Well other than the obvious answer it would suggest they probably don't have a blocking role I guess? I feel like if they did they would choose to block him. So...
a) They shot Robz, he was protected, and we have a Vig that shot WW (or flipped kills).
b) They shot Robz, he was protected, and they had a Vig shot that killed WW (or flipped kills).



This makes the idea of Mass Claiming kind of interesting imo. At first I was all for it, and I still might be, but this has put a pause on it at least. I am currently leaning that it is more likely that Skum has a blocking role. So if they do, and they used it last night to ensure Robz does not have another incriminating result, by mass claiming we pretty much just give them targets to choose from for their block, while still allowing them to shoot Robz.
The upside would obviously be cornering them, but honestly I like Robz idea the most at this point about assigning order and agreeing it is done tomorrow.

[2.71828.....]

That worked out well.

[2.71828.....]

Except jimmm took tracker, which is unfortunate.

[Swowl]

OK also just gonna ask - robz any value you see in claiming whether or not you have any more information to provide at this point?

[Swowl]

Opinions requested:
Would skum generally value the JK slot over the MD/NZ slot, or the other way around?

[Swowl]

PPS - I am humbly asking you to clarify on what you meant by you are 100% sure the vig is in the game. We have played around with it a lot, but at this point it a piece of the puzzle that is needed.

[Swowl]

Except jimmm took tracker, which is unfortunate.

Also to this note, we can assume that if skum was the only faction that shot last night (meaning no Vig) that Jimmm tracked a VT on N1 (or Robz I guess)

[Swowl]

Except jimmm took tracker, which is unfortunate.

Also to this note, we can assume that if skum was the only faction that shot last night (meaning no Vig) that Jimmm tracked a VT on N1 (or Robz I guess)

Or I guess a PR that did not shoot. but from their perspective, they would interpret that as VT by default I think.

[pingpongsam]

PPS - I am humbly asking you to clarify on what you meant by you are 100% sure the vig is in the game. We have played around with it a lot, but at this point it a piece of the puzzle that is needed.

Considering you are in my top scum reads I’ll pass on further clarification for your sake. I’m fine with full claiming in a provided order from someone other than yourself.

[Robz888]

Okay, well, I have another night result. IDP / schadd is scum.

I am the 2-Shot Alignment Cop, by the way. I got position #1 in the draft, and picked Cop. Cops are underrated in draft games, for some reason, so my thinking was perhaps I wouldn't displace too many lower-positioned townies.

My strategy was to investigate people I thought would be unlikely to absorb a mafia kill. What do you know, it worked.

Assuming that I am dead tomorrow, and it appears that massclaiming is wise, here is the order:

2.7, PPS, Cuzz, Awaclus, Space, Hydrad

This order is deliberate.

Let's not end the day yet, if anybody has any useful night knowledge we could theoretically wrap the game up right here.

[Robz888]

If anybody has blocking powers, they are likely town, since scum should have at least blocked me last night, but evidently didn't.

[2.71828.....]

 Nice. I don't have any useful night knowledge to contribute to the group

[Awaclus]

Nice. I don't have any useful night knowledge to contribute to the group

Same.

[Hydrad]

Nice. I don't have any useful night knowledge to contribute to the group

Same.

Same

[Hydrad]

also I think you missed datswan in your claim list.

[Cuzz]

You hit 2 scum with 2 shots? Damn.

[Robz888]

also I think you missed datswan in your claim list.

Oops. (This undermines my claim that the list was deliberate and thought out... but it is!)

Claim order: 2.7, PPS, Cuzz, Awaclus, DatSwan, Space, Hydrad

[pingpongsam]

Part of me wants Robz to be scum who outed a partner and did the math to seal the win by leading us to a certain mislynch but I am not seeing it. Good job landing the MVP by Day 3! There was discussion of game breaking mechanics resulting from the draft but it looks like proper use of a role power is all it took. I’m hopeful to find that I drew the roleblock last night if there was one.

[pingpongsam]

Also, I like that Robz is shot out so he isn’t even a good target now.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Okay, well, I have another night result. IDP / schadd is scum.

Lol, what? No. I'm not sure how you're saying you got that result unless you're just looking for a reaction.

[Cuzz]

Okay, well, I have another night result. IDP / schadd is scum.

Lol, what? No. I'm not sure how you're saying you got that result unless you're just looking for a reaction.

It is interesting that the reaction here is "Lol, what?" instead of "Vote:Robz"

[Robz888]

We will need to hear from Space, and then we can proceed to with the lynch.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Okay, well, I have another night result. IDP / schadd is scum.

Lol, what? No. I'm not sure how you're saying you got that result unless you're just looking for a reaction.

It is interesting that the reaction here is "Lol, what?" instead of "Vote:Robz"

You think I think Robz came out of nowhere with that D2 bus to secure a D3 mislynch?

[Cuzz]

Okay, well, I have another night result. IDP / schadd is scum.

Lol, what? No. I'm not sure how you're saying you got that result unless you're just looking for a reaction.

It is interesting that the reaction here is "Lol, what?" instead of "Vote:Robz"

You think I think Robz came out of nowhere with that D2 bus to secure a D3 mislynch?

Either you are scum or you should think Robz is scum who is framing you, which should make you want to vote for him. What is the other option?

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Okay, well, I have another night result. IDP / schadd is scum.

Lol, what? No. I'm not sure how you're saying you got that result unless you're just looking for a reaction.

It is interesting that the reaction here is "Lol, what?" instead of "Vote:Robz"

You think I think Robz came out of nowhere with that D2 bus to secure a D3 mislynch?

Either you are scum or you should think Robz is scum who is framing you, which should make you want to vote for him. What is the other option?

Zealous town fishing for a potential free Cop result. It's a fairly common tactic in some of the IRL games I play and I don't see why it wouldn't be worth a try here.

[Cuzz]

Okay, well, I have another night result. IDP / schadd is scum.

Lol, what? No. I'm not sure how you're saying you got that result unless you're just looking for a reaction.

It is interesting that the reaction here is "Lol, what?" instead of "Vote:Robz"

You think I think Robz came out of nowhere with that D2 bus to secure a D3 mislynch?

Either you are scum or you should think Robz is scum who is framing you, which should make you want to vote for him. What is the other option?

Zealous town fishing for a potential free Cop result. It's a fairly common tactic in some of the IRL games I play and I don't see why it wouldn't be worth a try here.

Can you please flesh out how this would work from Robz's perspective exactly?

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Okay, well, I have another night result. IDP / schadd is scum.

Lol, what? No. I'm not sure how you're saying you got that result unless you're just looking for a reaction.

It is interesting that the reaction here is "Lol, what?" instead of "Vote:Robz"

You think I think Robz came out of nowhere with that D2 bus to secure a D3 mislynch?

Either you are scum or you should think Robz is scum who is framing you, which should make you want to vote for him. What is the other option?

Zealous town fishing for a potential free Cop result. It's a fairly common tactic in some of the IRL games I play and I don't see why it wouldn't be worth a try here.

Can you please flesh out how this would work from Robz's perspective exactly?

1) Cop someone
2) Claim a scum result on someone else
3) See what happens
4a) If they incriminate themselves, congrats, free Cop result!
4b) If they don't, extra interactions

[IDontPlayThisGame]

FWIW, I think this scenario is a special case and I'll explain once I'm on the bus and not trying to leave for work.

[pingpongsam]

This could be a thing but I seriously doubt it is a thing Robz does here. There’s no pressure to lie for a Hail Mary shot here.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

This could be a thing but I seriously doubt it is a thing Robz does here. There’s no pressure to lie for a Hail Mary shot here.

I don't think it's much of a Hail Mary, at least in the "try or die" sense that I tend to think of them as. It's early in the day, not much has happened, and it's something to talk about. But that could easily be semantics.

Robz caught me in my scum game (I forget the number but I was the D1 lynch) due to a poorly worded post in which I contradicted myself and suggested that we lynch him. It's possible I was caught before that and was going to be lynched anyway, but that's the moment that sticks out to me as when the rest of the votes became a formality rather than something that might happen. To that end, I think Robz is confident that, given enough material, he can accurately read me. A good way to get town talking is to accuse them and here we are*. Add to that that I've replaced into this game and would probably feel more pressure in this scenario if I am scum and you've got a situation that I think makes the outlined plan worth considering.

What about the loss of credibility he could suffer? Look at that D2. If anyone is scumreading Robz this game, you must think he's a crazier player than I do. My understanding of bussing is that it works because scum typically doesn't want to kill a partner and scum only busses when there's something to gain, namely towncred and a winning position because of it (in my head I liken it to a gambit in chess). In what world does scum bus that hard just to lynch town the next day? It'd be better to just lynch town the day he bussed. From my reread, Jim wasn't widely townread (possibly because I knew he was the D2 lynch and scum before I read the game), but he wasn't about to be lynched before Robz started that. Now we're at a point where I think the plan isn't just worth considering, I think it's viable.

*I recognize that I was silent in the day leading up to my lynch in M115, but that's because the deadline day was a mess IRL and I mentioned that in my QT after the lynch.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Anyway, my shift is about to start and I'm not sure how much I'll be able to talk during it (yes, Robz, it's still the job where I save drowning puppies).

[SpaceAnemone]

We will need to hear from Space, and then we can proceed to with the lynch.

Sorry! Here I am :-) What do we need me for?

There was little phone reception at the wedding reception venue, and who wants to be on a phone when the wedding reception literally has board games and tables for playing, and awesome people to hang out with IRL?? :-) Also, CJ is now married and it was adorable and joyful and I think maybe they're going to be superheroes now.

Also also, while I'm teetotal, I've been hanging out with increasingly drunk people all evening, and that has made me quite tipsy-feeling all by itself. Try saying "innuendo-laden spanner" three times fast. We ended up with an innuendo ladel. That kind of sums up why I might not be in the right frame of mind right now :-P

[Swowl]

I think Robz is probably town and telling the truth. I def think we should lynch IDPTG. If Robz was skum and did some weird bus thing for crazy town points vs Jimm then they had no reason to further it here. They could of just claimed they got RBd or something and even if they were lying and it was solvable we wouldn't of found out until we claimed. Upon that, stating skum on IDP has two outcomes - either they are town and Robz is Skum, or Robz is Town and they are Skum. Just adding those two up, the answer is really hard to believe Skum!Robz here. Like almost to the extent I won't even consider it.

Something that should probably be discussed prior to the day ending would be how in the hell we eneded with a WW death only last night though. If robz did not get blocked, and they also chose to kill elsewhere - that pretty much means that Skum knows there is a role that would protect Robz. Meaning they know there is either a Doctor or a Jailkeeper in the game. I guess the aside concept would be that PPS (or someone) is actually Vig and they shot jimm and Skum did try to shoot Robz but they were protected, but I think the first version is more likely. 

I am trying to think ahead here... if Robz dies tonight, then we have the claim list set up for tomorrow. But beyond that...

@Robz - it would probably be beneficial if you posted a skum to chum list before the day ends in case you don't get another chance. It would be a gtd unbiased jumping off point for us to use.

[Hydrad]

I am trying to think ahead here... if Robz dies tonight, then we have the claim list set up for tomorrow. But beyond that...

@Robz - it would probably be beneficial if you posted a skum to chum list before the day ends in case you don't get another chance. It would be a gtd unbiased jumping off point for us to use.

I guess I assumed the claim list was kinda a scum to chum list.

But I guess it could be a bit different.

[Hydrad]

But ya sorry IDPTG, unless robz says he was testing the waters I think your dead. you seemed to get an unfortunate replacement timing. kinda like me in the other game I played with you where i just insta died.

[SpaceAnemone]

I think Robz is probably town and telling the truth. I def think we should lynch IDPTG. If Robz was skum and did some weird bus thing for crazy town points vs Jimm then they had no reason to further it here.

Yes, I'm treating Robz as 99%!conf!town at least. It's one thing to bus your scum partners a bit; it's entirely another to spark a wagon on a mostly-unsuspected player and go down a teammate super-early in the game.

Something that should probably be discussed prior to the day ending would be how in the hell we eneded with a WW death only last night though.

One of WW's early posts was a "weak gut feel" vote on schadd. I can see a scumteam with schadd on it pick him as an alternative target if they're not sure enough that a Robz hit is going to go through, especially if they don't have any better read on who other PRs are.

Meaning they know there is either a Doctor or a Jailkeeper in the game.

I think it may be sufficient for them not to be sure there isn't a protective role in town's possession for them to want not to risk it.

[2.71828.....]

So....vote: IDPTG now?

I do like IDPTG's post though. A noble effort for someone who just subbed in.

[pingpongsam]

What’s the hurry, e?

[IDontPlayThisGame]

But ya sorry IDPTG, unless robz says he was testing the waters I think your dead. you seemed to get an unfortunate replacement timing. kinda like me in the other game I played with you where i just insta died.

He will. Just wait. Or don't wait, give him the interactions he's looking for.

But Robz, if you're really serious about taking this all the way, I want you to hammer me.

[2.71828.....]

What’s the hurry, e?

What's the hesitation? Robz mentioned wanting the day to last longer, which is great. Everyone has given at least some sort of feedback, so now we lynch.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Okay, well, I have another night result. IDP / schadd is scum.

Lol, what? No. I'm not sure how you're saying you got that result unless you're just looking for a reaction.

It is interesting that the reaction here is "Lol, what?" instead of "Vote:Robz"

You think I think Robz came out of nowhere with that D2 bus to secure a D3 mislynch?

Either you are scum or you should think Robz is scum who is framing you, which should make you want to vote for him. What is the other option?

Zealous town fishing for a potential free Cop result. It's a fairly common tactic in some of the IRL games I play and I don't see why it wouldn't be worth a try here.

Can you please flesh out how this would work from Robz's perspective exactly?

Anything to say now that I have?

[Robz888]

Yeah it's fine to lynch now.

Vote: IDPTG

[Swowl]

What’s the hurry, e?

There is no point in waiting:
Either IDP is Skum, so we have found Skum, and Skum knows that... so Skum also has the upper hand on all interactions.
Or Robz is Skum, and Skum knows that... so Skum has the upper hand on all interactions.

Unless you or anyone has an idea about an actual approach we should vote this out, not just to save time, but this is actually a situation where "just sitting around talking" hurts Town and helps Skum.

[Swowl]

cool.

Vote:IDPTG

[Hydrad]

Vote: IDPTG

[Cuzz]

vote: idptg

[Swowl]

I believe that was hammer-sauce.

[2.71828.....]

I believe that was hammer-sauce.

unless your vote doesn't count without a space

cool.

Vote:IDPTG

[pingpongsam]

Vote: IDPTG

[pingpongsam]

Robz could be scum. Seems unlikely but so is copping two scum in a row. Alternately he is a Mafia JOAT and knows that 2 shot cop is a safe claim to make and can prove it. It effectively ICs him and he gets a follow up massclaim to see which town players to apply his powers on in the inexorable churn of attrition.

[pingpongsam]

It is absolutely something I would consider were a mafia joat in this game setup. I’m sure my partners would howl with the fury of a thousand scorned women if I put the idea forward, though.

[Swowl]

Vote: IDPTG

[Swowl]

Vote: IDPTG

Man that took a lot of tries.

[iguanaiguana]

Day 3 Final Vote Count

IDontPlayThisGame (5): 2.71828..., Robz888, Hydrad, Cuzz, pingpongsam


Not Voting (4): IDontPlayThisGame, Awaclus, SpaceAnemone, DatSwan

With 9 alive, it took 5 to lynch.

[iguanaiguana]

IDontPlayThisGame was Irene McAllistair, an Evil Being aligned goon.

Night 2 starts now and lasts until 10:30PM on Tuesday, May 22.

Thread Locked.

[iguanaiguana]

Hydrad died!

He was Quentin Coldwater, a student-aligned neighborizer.

Vote Count 4.0

Note Voting (7): Robz888, 2.71828....., pingpongsam, datswan, Cuzz, Awaclus, SpaceAnemone

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. D4 starts now and ends on May 30 at 10:20AM forum time.

Thread unlocked!

[Robz888]

Well, one to go!

[2.71828.....]

Nice.  Robz - feel free to claim IC. 

In the meantime, I got slot #2 in the draft and took vig.  Haven't used the shot, won't use the shot.  It is kind of disappointing that Robz stole the show here and there isn't a good opportunity to shoot someone.  But oh well.  A win is a win. 

That is, as long as we don't mislynch 3 times in a row now.

[SpaceAnemone]

That is, as long as we don't mislynch 3 times in a row now.

Howcome a claimed vig with a shot in hand is expecting to live long enough for mislynching three times in a row to be relevant?

[2.71828.....]

That is, as long as we don't mislynch 3 times in a row now.

Howcome a claimed vig with a shot in hand is expecting to live long enough for mislynching three times in a row to be relevant?

I don't have to live long enough to win, we just have to lynch scum. I am not expecting anything except that sometime in the next 3 days (including today) we will lynch scum.

[Robz888]

I would like PPS to full claim next.

[pingpongsam]

VT. I’m a setup idiot and made a mistaken claim but never recanted because I was happy with the negative attention and hopefully scum uncertainty it caused. I had hoped to possibly draw a NK from it.

I never directly claimed Vig but did intend to strongly insinuate it.

I think we should consider killing the claimed vig for obvious reasons. But I still think Space is scum so there is that.

[Robz888]

And you bid the vig slot? As what draft number, again? I wanted the full claim, please.

[2.71828.....]

I came in last place in the draft order which was no surprise at all considering the subject matter. I bid one shot vig anyway so now I know for certain there is one in the game.

He went last in draft order

[pingpongsam]

Yes I bid the vig slot as last place draft.

[Swowl]

Who next?

[Robz888]

Cuzz is up next.

[Swowl]

cmon guys lets get this claim done we are gonna need time afterwards.

[Cuzz]

cmon guys lets get this claim done we are gonna need time afterwards.

Yes, I do apologize for not responding in the hours between midnight and 7 am.

I was third and picked UB, because I wanted to simulate being randomly assigned a role or something.

Then faust died. I am now a town Ninja. If I perform a killing action, that action will not be detected by a Tracker, Watcher or Motion Detector (spoiler: I will not perform a killing action).

[Robz888]

Awaclus is next.

[Awaclus]

VT. I got slot #12 and bid for Study Natural/Motion Detector.

[Robz888]

DatSwan is next.

[Swowl]

cmon guys lets get this claim done we are gonna need time afterwards.

Yes, I do apologize for not responding in the hours between midnight and 7 am.

I was third and picked UB, because I wanted to simulate being randomly assigned a role or something.

Then faust died. I am now a town Ninja. If I perform a killing action, that action will not be detected by a Tracker, Watcher or Motion Detector (spoiler: I will not perform a killing action).

haha sorry I didn't mean forit to come off that way.

[Swowl]

I was Draft Position #5 and got Doctor.

Do I claim targets now or after claim is done?

[Robz888]

I was Draft Position #5 and got Doctor.

Do I claim targets now or after claim is done?

Now!

[Swowl]

I was Draft Position #5 and got Doctor.

Do I claim targets now or after claim is done?

Now!

N1Hydrad
N2Robz
N3Robz

[pingpongsam]

WW was vigged?

[Swowl]

WW was vigged?

That is what I thought at first, but also then Robz wasn't "shot at" last night either and there is only one shot in Vig and so.....

My thinking was either they ignored Robz assuming that there was a Doctor or something in play that was gonna proc him or they have JK or something and decided to JK or something Robz and kill elsewhere - But then Robz got his shots off so the second idea went out the door, so I honestly think that they just chose to ignore Robz. After the claim is done, that will probably help in our deduction of where things lye.

[2.71828.....]

WW was vigged?

No he was not.

[pingpongsam]

How does a Doctor know if their target was targeted?

[2.71828.....]

How does a Doctor know if their target was targeted?

They don't. DatSwan was speculating. It's part ood the whole discussion we can have if we would finish claiming

also I think you missed datswan in your claim list.

Oops. (This undermines my claim that the list was deliberate and thought out... but it is!)

Claim order: 2.7, PPS, Cuzz, Awaclus, DatSwan, Space, Hydrad

Space needs to claim then that is everyone

[2.71828.....]

Then after space people who were neighborized by hydrad can also claim. Not as important, but still informative

[Robz888]

I'm currently in a neighborhood with Space and unsure whether they need to claim here. Should probably put together a list of who claimed what, and numbers.

[SpaceAnemone]

I'm currently in a neighborhood with Space and unsure whether they need to claim here. Should probably put together a list of who claimed what, and numbers.

I can confirm the bit about being in Hydrad's neighbourhood.

I'll put together a list of claims from the main thread to post in here later tonight, since I already started it yesterday before all the responses were in.

[2.71828.....]

1: Robz888 - 2-shot cop (targets: jimmmm, IDPTG; both scum)
2: 2.71828..... - 1-shot vig
3: Cuzz - UB (now ninja)
5: datswan - Doctor (targets N1 Hydard; N2/N3 Robz)
12: Awaclus - VT
13: pingpongsam - VT
??: SpaceAnemonie - unclaimed

Faust - town ninja
Hydrad - neighborizer
Xxraptorslayer96 - VT
Witherweaver - VT
idontplaythisgame - goon
Jimmmmm - Tracker

[2.71828.....]

Claimed slots taken:

Study Physical
Ninja - faust (draft position ???)
Strongman

Study Natural
Neighborizer - Hydard (draft position ???)
Motion Detector

Study Knowledge
2-shot Allignment Cop - Robz (draft position 1)
JOAT (1-shot Ninja, 1-shot Strongman, 1-shot Roleblocker)

Study Healing
Doctor - DatSwan (draft position 5)
1-shot Bulletproof

Study Psychic - No claims
1-shot Commuter
2-shot Motivator

Pray to Our Lady of the Underground
Watcher
Tracker - Jimmmmm (draft position ???)

Party with Bacchus
Day 2 Innocent Child (Town Only)
Universal Backup - Cuzz (draft position 3)

Work for the Library - No claims
Jailkeeper
JOAT (1-shot Role Cop, 1-shot Tracker, 1-shot Reloader)

Sleep with a God
1-shot Vigilante - e (draft position 2)
Roleblocker

Make a Fairy Deal - no claims
Random PR
Random PR
Random PR

[2.71828.....]

I really hope space is the JOAT (and town)

If they 1) have copped a target that is still alive and 2) are able to reload Robz for another shot

in conjunction with Hydrad doctoring Robz tonight I think the possibility for scum to win is basically zero.

[2.71828.....]

Speculation, but consider this scenario (Robz/space/hydard town):

N1/N2 Space used cop.  Their target is still alive.  If Space had targeted scum they would have claimed and we could lynch them and end the game.
N3 Space reloads Robz
N4 Space uses tracker, Robz uses cop; hydrad can doctor either one of them and the end result is the same (tracker is basically cop at this point with only 1 scum)

We lynch today in Awaclus/Cuzz/PPS/e.  Then investigation results are garnered from that same group giving us one more confirmed town.  Even if we mislynch again tomorrow there will be a result that implicates the final scum and a definitive scum lynch in lylo based on results.

[2.71828.....]

of course, that scenario might not be even possible.

[2.71828.....]

or one of hydrad/space could be scum

[2.71828.....]

If Robz is scum I am totally fine with letting him win after killing off his two partners.

[2.71828.....]

Or the plan fails because cuzz is ninja scum now that he inherited that as UB.

[Robz888]

Hydrad was draft position 11.

WW was draft position "middle-ish" and went for Day 2 IC. WW was Hydrad's first neighborhood recruit. I was the second, WW was already dead. I thought it unlikely hydrad would want to kill the person he had neigbhorized right off the bat, thus my town read on him.

[Cuzz]

Or the plan fails because cuzz is ninja scum now that he inherited that as UB.

There is no chance scum in the #3 spot takes UB.

[Robz888]

Or the plan fails because cuzz is ninja scum now that he inherited that as UB.

There is no chance scum in the #3 spot takes UB.

Right. If you are scum, you are probably not what you say you are.

[Swowl]

Or the plan fails because cuzz is ninja scum now that he inherited that as UB.

There is no chance scum in the #3 spot takes UB.

#3 skum fake claimed out another and took UB - not saying it happened just saying that would be how it happens.

[2.71828.....]

Or the plan fails because cuzz is ninja scum now that he inherited that as UB.

There is no chance scum in the #3 spot takes UB.

I mean, that's not really true. Scum did take tracker, which doesn't have any scum utility except to have something good to claim when a mass claim inevitably happened and to keep the power away from town.

Taking UB in slot 3 would allow scum to make a statement like kind of exactly like you just did.

[Cuzz]

Or the plan fails because cuzz is ninja scum now that he inherited that as UB.

There is no chance scum in the #3 spot takes UB.

I mean, that's not really true. Scum did take tracker, which doesn't have any scum utility except to have something good to claim when a mass claim inevitably happened and to keep the power away from town.

Taking UB in slot 3 would allow scum to make a statement like kind of exactly like you just did.

I mean... sure. Or they could take sometime useful like e.g. Ninja

[2.71828.....]

I assume faust was probably 6/7/8ish and took ninja - not because it would actually benefit him specifically as a member of town, but because it would benefit town as a whole.  Had he been a VT and stayed alive longer we would know for certain that scum had ninja/strongman, and that knowledge is useful.

Basically, I reject the line of thinking that says "I am draft position 3 and took UB, therefore I am town"

[Robz888]

I mean, scum UB worked out really well for O in mafia what-was-it, when he picked up Roleblocker. It's possible.

[2.71828.....]

But, now that we have all the claims (except Space who has claimed to Robz in a neighborhood), my lynchpool is {Cuzz/Awaclus/PPS} for today.  I think it would be silly to lynch Hydrad/Space because they are doctor/good PR that possible is investigative of some sort, and Robz is IC.

[2.71828.....]

I could definitely see scum!JK or scum!JOAT from the work from the library slot claiming VT, and I am not 100% comfortable with Cuzz being ninja.

But that lynchpool is based exclusively on claims, I need to go back and look at them for which from that group I want to lynch first.

[SpaceAnemone]

But, now that we have all the claims (except Space who has claimed to Robz in a neighborhood), my lynchpool is {Cuzz/Awaclus/PPS} for today.  I think it would be silly to lynch Hydrad/Space because they are doctor/good PR that possible is investigative of some sort, and Robz is IC.

... also because Hydrad was killed last night, which you're clearly aware of when you summarized claims and stuff! I'm not even sure what to make of the fact that this is the second time you're implying he could be under suspicion in the last 15 game posts or so.

[Cuzz]

Basically, I reject the line of thinking that says "I am draft position 3 and took UB, therefore I am town"

Ok but I am town so I dunno what to tell you. It’s not because I’m position 3 and UB. It’s because of my role PM in my QT.

[2.71828.....]

Basically, I reject the line of thinking that says "I am draft position 3 and took UB, therefore I am town"

Ok but I am town so I dunno what to tell you. It’s not because I’m position 3 and UB. It’s because of my role PM in my QT.

That's convincing.

[2.71828.....]

But, now that we have all the claims (except Space who has claimed to Robz in a neighborhood), my lynchpool is {Cuzz/Awaclus/PPS} for today.  I think it would be silly to lynch Hydrad/Space because they are doctor/good PR that possible is investigative of some sort, and Robz is IC.

... also because Hydrad was killed last night, which you're clearly aware of when you summarized claims and stuff! I'm not even sure what to make of the fact that this is the second time you're implying he could be under suspicion in the last 15 game posts or so.

read Datswan not Hydrad.

[Swowl]

But, now that we have all the claims (except Space who has claimed to Robz in a neighborhood), my lynchpool is {Cuzz/Awaclus/PPS} for today.  I think it would be silly to lynch Hydrad/Space because they are doctor/good PR that possible is investigative of some sort, and Robz is IC.

Am i hydrad?

[2.71828.....]

But, now that we have all the claims (except Space who has claimed to Robz in a neighborhood), my lynchpool is {Cuzz/Awaclus/PPS} for today.  I think it would be silly to lynch Hydrad/Space because they are doctor/good PR that possible is investigative of some sort, and Robz is IC.

Am i hydrad?

yeah, sorry.  I accidentally wrote hydrad instead of you

[Swowl]

robz you got reasoning for leaving space out cuz they pretty much my number one going into this. I need someone to provide a reason..

[2.71828.....]

I'm currently in a neighborhood with Space and unsure whether they need to claim here. Should probably put together a list of who claimed what, and numbers.

Space claimed to robz in their neighborhood and robz is cool with them not claiming in the game thread at this point. If tomorrow comes I think we will need them to claim in thread, but I am fine with a private claim to our IC at this point

[2.71828.....]

Also, request prod: Awaclus

Inactivity led to our D1 mislynch (speaking of which I need to go back and look at that wagon) and the only reason we have caught scum is results not good activity. While we may I be able to finish scum off strictly using results from PRs, some activity would be nice to look for scum

[Awaclus]

I'm here, no need to prod.

[pingpongsam]

If Robz is scum then WP’d I suppose. This still seems like a possibility to me, though. I am sure no one goes down that road with me today so that’s all I say on that for now.

Assuming Robz is town then he knows something about Space that would die with him unless he is doctored which presumes the doctor is truthing. I tend to think the doctor is truthing and am thinking the vig shot got WW. I think the vig is truthing but not about alignment. Said vig is busy fishing for info on space from Robz.

Vote: e

[Robz888]

I am reasonably convinced DatSwan is a town Doctor.

Space and I are currently arguing about whether she should claim here. Hopefully we will reach a conclusion soon. I am town reading her, but it is a weaker read than DatSwan.

[2.71828.....]

Said vig is busy fishing for info on space from Robz.

Vote: e

What game are you reading?

I'm currently in a neighborhood with Space and unsure whether they need to claim here. Should probably put together a list of who claimed what, and numbers.

Space claimed to robz in their neighborhood and robz is cool with them not claiming in the game thread at this point. If tomorrow comes I think we will need them to claim in thread, but I am fine with a private claim to our IC at this point

[pingpongsam]

Yeah, I dunno. Even if you NK Robz and vig Space we still learn the truth about their roles. Still, you are as good as any. I still have the sneaking suspicion that one of Robz or Space is scum. Space because they are acting funny and Robz because he is in the epic league to pull off a stunt of this caliber.

But it is more likely there is scum amongst Awaclus, e, and Cuzz. Feel pretty ok with my vote where it is.

[2.71828.....]

If I vig anyone at anytime you lynch me. There is absolutely zero reason for me to vig anyone

[pingpongsam]

If I vig anyone at anytime you lynch me. There is absolutely zero reason for me to vig anyone

Except when a vig and a NK win you the game. But, yeah, I see the point about vigging space/Robz.

[Awaclus]

Vote: Cuzz for the time being

[Swowl]

OK I have a big old post that I want to post, but first I have a question.

Has anyone at anytime this game been blocked?

I guess to be safe because of the NZ thread, no one should answer until Robz stamp of approval, but I think the question will generate a lot of black and white out of currently grey areas.

[Swowl]

I can actually elaborate slightly. Here is my theory:
I know I am the doctor.
I know I doctored Robz both nights after he claimed.
Obviously they are gonna kill me, because I clearly am going to doctor Robz again.

The question is, if there is no role they had to block Robz (which unless robz is skum, is just simply the case) then they pretty much MUST of known that there was a role that was going to proc Robz at night.

Now at first, after claim 1, I thought ok ok maybe it was me and town JK both proced Robz... but Robz got a result, so no that can't be it.
Essentially what I am getting at is that skum pretty much HAD TO KNOW that Doctor was in the game. So either Goon!Schadd/IDP or *potential* Skum!LastGuy went for either Doctor or 1 shot BP.

Currently I am leaning on believing E! is Town because if they were skum that was not Vig then on the off chance that PPS was the Vig, they lose the game by claiming (CC takes 2 days, we have 3 left, we obv kill one and win or one then the other). The only aside is that they could be high pick skum I guess and actually in fact be the vig (again, can't reasonably be Skum!RB because of second robz result).

I am like just right there in the middle on Cuzz, because as pick 3 I can totally see a town player going for UB. Especially someone like Cuzz that doesn't interact a lot and is probably pretty sure they will get the benefit of the PR. And then as skum there would obv be the advantage of the fact that given the soak came from Ninja, it is essentially unverifiable.

@ Robz/Space - If space is slot 4 it needs to be said. The information is too valuable. You don't even have to say the role I don't think, but the info on draft order is insane.

I am Doc as pick 5

Then we have 6-10 which is just up in the air.
But the just fucking nuts part to me here is that Hydrad went NZ as 11 and GOT IT. So skum 6-10 (or better) just saw no value in going for MD? I mean it has to be true, Hydrad was town so why would they lie.

Then Awaclus with VT claiming MD/NZ (most suspicious thing to me thus far)

And PPS claim VT going for Vig (which as last pick whatever, why not you confirm it is in the game - to an extent).

We have 3 lynches (unless E! is Skum!Vig- which also to raise the point if he was why not double shoot Robz after original claim).  I think those 3 lynches should be E!, Cuzz, and Awaclus (not ordered in any way).

If anything E! should be lynched tomorrow, as they cannot win the game by going mis-lynch + double NK because we still go to day after tomorrow as 2-1 and they are outted. Lynching tomorrow GTDs he does not get to successfully use the extra shot to win. If we are wrong, and he is Town, then we go to the day after tomorrow as 3-1.

So I would like to lynch:
Today = Awaclus or Cuzz
Tomorrow = E!
Last Day = Awaclus or Cuzz

The fact that PPS is left out and that I don't care about the Awaclus/Cuzz order is completely reliant upon the Space information. So this is being said on my part unkown of Space, and somewhat trusting Robz read on Space Town. Personally, I think the info needs to come out because I cannot think of a role that Space can be at this point that gets her killed tonight over me.

[pingpongsam]

Okay, why not, Vote: Cuzz

[SpaceAnemone]

Argh.. sorry I've gone quiet here. I've been waiting well over 24 hours for Robz to say something in our neighbourhood discussions, and I'm reluctant to say more out here on the claiming front till he agrees with me, or persuades me otherwise.

On the non-claiming front, I'd be happy with a Cuzz lynch, but I think Awaclus has a less townie voting history that any of the other names currently in the lynchpool (which I think is PPS, e, Cuzz and Awaclus). For e, Cuzz and PPS, there are at least a couple of things they've done with their votes (relative to where known scum votes were etc) that decrease the chance of them being scum. For Awaclus, there's nothing that would be at all inconsistent with regular scum play. I've left details in Hydrad's neighbourhood in case Robz wants to come back to any of it.. the only way we both die tonight is if e's bad, and then the rest of you know who to lynch anyway.

[Awaclus]

On the non-claiming front, I'd be happy with a Cuzz lynch, but I think Awaclus has a less townie voting history that any of the other names currently in the lynchpool (which I think is PPS, e, Cuzz and Awaclus). For e, Cuzz and PPS, there are at least a couple of things they've done with their votes (relative to where known scum votes were etc) that decrease the chance of them being scum. For Awaclus, there's nothing that would be at all inconsistent with regular scum play.

That's probably because I'm not scum so I didn't know who to vote for to make my votes look less scummy.

[pingpongsam]

On the non-claiming front, I'd be happy with a Cuzz lynch, but I think Awaclus has a less townie voting history that any of the other names currently in the lynchpool (which I think is PPS, e, Cuzz and Awaclus). For e, Cuzz and PPS, there are at least a couple of things they've done with their votes (relative to where known scum votes were etc) that decrease the chance of them being scum. For Awaclus, there's nothing that would be at all inconsistent with regular scum play.

That's probably because I'm not scum so I didn't know who to vote for to make my votes look less scummy.

By this logic e, Cuzz, and PPS must be scum.

[pingpongsam]

Space makes a good point. Unvote

[SpaceAnemone]

On the non-claiming front, I'd be happy with a Cuzz lynch, but I think Awaclus has a less townie voting history that any of the other names currently in the lynchpool (which I think is PPS, e, Cuzz and Awaclus). For e, Cuzz and PPS, there are at least a couple of things they've done with their votes (relative to where known scum votes were etc) that decrease the chance of them being scum. For Awaclus, there's nothing that would be at all inconsistent with regular scum play.

That's probably because I'm not scum so I didn't know who to vote for to make my votes look less scummy.

That's not how my analysis works. The other three have all had votes on wagons with other scums where I don't think a scum would vote so close to their buddies without giving it a second thought. You, on the other hand, have not voted for a known scum, nor been voted for by a known scum, nor even been on the same wagon as a known scum for the entire game. I think that makes it marginally more likely that the other scums didn't want to join a wagon on you, or with you already voting on it, and the behaviour of possible teammates isn't something things your typical Awaclusian meta has any control over.

[SpaceAnemone]

Space makes a good point. Unvote

Hey, my post there did also include the fact that I'm happy enough with a Cuzz lynch. We have an acting IC in Robz, so I'm happy for him to dictate... I'm just getting restless waiting for him to say what he wants to do so I thought I'd throw my own thoughts into the game. My vote analysis is only part of the overall picture, and it's easy to miss human stuff when all I'm reading is the raw votes.

[Awaclus]

That's not how my analysis works. The other three have all had votes on wagons with other scums where I don't think a scum would vote so close to their buddies without giving it a second thought. You, on the other hand, have not voted for a known scum, nor been voted for by a known scum, nor even been on the same wagon as a known scum for the entire game. I think that makes it marginally more likely that the other scums didn't want to join a wagon on you, or with you already voting on it, and the behaviour of possible teammates isn't something things your typical Awaclusian meta has any control over.

As far as voting close to buddies is concerned, I have never paid any attention to that as any alignment because I don't think it's a valid reason to think that someone is scum. Also, it's worth noting that I haven't been on a lynch wagon this whole game, because I didn't have a reason to think Raptor was scum and all the other lynches got through while I wasn't sure if it was fine for me to end the day already. That in and of itself makes it a lot less likely for scum to vote with me.

This is a team game, so of course any scum play is always a team effort, and I like to discuss bussing decisions with the entire team to make sure everyone is on the same page when the day begins, so it is not true that I don't have any "control over" the behavior of possible teammates. It isn't plausible that either my teammates or I would decide to do something unpredictable that everyone didn't agree with, unless it turned out to be necessary because of some unexpected town shenanigans.

The rest of your post is just an argument from WIFOM.

[2.71828.....]

Sorry, weekend caught up to me and I didn't get around to posting or rereading. My gut preferred lynch right now is Cuzz, with a secondary on Awaclus. Still need to actually look back at D1 interactions and really decide from there

[Awaclus]

On the non-claiming front, I'd be happy with a Cuzz lynch, but I think Awaclus has a less townie voting history that any of the other names currently in the lynchpool (which I think is PPS, e, Cuzz and Awaclus). For e, Cuzz and PPS, there are at least a couple of things they've done with their votes (relative to where known scum votes were etc) that decrease the chance of them being scum. For Awaclus, there's nothing that would be at all inconsistent with regular scum play.

That's probably because I'm not scum so I didn't know who to vote for to make my votes look less scummy.

By this logic e, Cuzz, and PPS must be scum.

That's not how it works. You could also not know who to vote for to make your votes look less scummy and still vote that way by coincidence.

[2.71828.....]

I (somewhat) agree with awaclus in that I don't think voting history is the most useful tool we have this game. Results driven lynches on D2/D3 are just as easy to stay off/get on wagon for scum. D1 is the best wagon we have to look at this game, which isn't much in the grand scheme of things

[pingpongsam]

Well Cuzz’ position D1 struck me as particularly scummy. So much so I voted him then. Everyone but Robz and Cuzz has shown strong willingness to vote him today.

[2.71828.....]

Also to note: just under 48 hours until the deadline.

[Robz888]

Hey guys, sorry to disappear! Holiday weekend and all. I'm catching up now.

[Robz888]

Well Cuzz’ position D1 struck me as particularly scummy. So much so I voted him then. Everyone but Robz and Cuzz has shown strong willingness to vote him today.

Oh, I have a strong willingness to vote for Cuzz.

E's high level of activity here is successfully decreasing my scum read on him. I'm not convinced he shouldn't shoot, by the way. I think it's possible we want him to shoot, like, Awaclus or PPS, assuming we lynch Cuzz here.

I find Awaclus's lack of activity and terrible voting pattern suspicious, but for me scum!Awaclus is pretty much indistiguishable from town!Awaclus. Meanwhile I'm cognizant of the fact that it seems like I'm the only one who finds PPS suspicious...

[Robz888]

Okay, here's the deal.

After much debate, we are revealing the following: Space obtained one of the abilities listed in the "Work for the Library" slot. Space has some interesting information to reveal based on that, but we gave chose to save it for tomorrow, since it's impossible for both of us to die tonight.

It's also possible neither of us dies tonight. To that end, DatSwan, you should generate some kind of random number thing, in which you are protecting me 75% of the time, and Space 25% of the time.

E, I want you to shoot PPS tonight.

I should note, in case all of this backfires horribly and I somehow die tonight, I am not 100% convinced Space is actually town, and in fact, this plan going south would sort of be evidence for Space being scum.

Vote: Cuzz

[SpaceAnemone]

I would put Cuzz to L-1 right now, but I'd like to see e's confirmation that he's willing to go along with Robz's plan before we see a hammer.

[Robz888]

Good idea.

[pingpongsam]

Can’t say I am thrilled with definitely dying tonight. But if you guys think it brings us to the win with more certainty so be it. I only ask to get the Cuzz hammer as my consolation prize.

[pingpongsam]

For the record the only reason I relented on my space suspicion is because Robz seemed sold on them being town. Now he’s saying he is not so sure and I am really uncomfortable with directing the vig onto me. That said, Robz seems to think the outcome will signal space’s alignment. If they do turn out to be scum here is my official told you so you sorry bastards who plotted my death instead.

[Cuzz]

Can’t say I am thrilled with definitely dying tonight. But if you guys think it brings us to the win with more certainty so be it. I only ask to get the Cuzz hammer as my consolation prize.

Why are you definitely dying tonight if you think I’m scum?

[Cuzz]

Can’t say I am thrilled with definitely dying tonight. But if you guys think it brings us to the win with more certainty so be it. I only ask to get the Cuzz hammer as my consolation prize.

Why are you definitely dying tonight if you think I’m scum?

vote: pps

[pingpongsam]

While thinking through the told you sos... remember Robz could be scum. Today we kill Cuzz and the tonight me and Awaclus die. Space is now “suspicious” and so is e. Mislynch one and NK the other FTW. Not bad for offing your partners for permacred. Just need to get rid of that one guy isn’t fully sold and might spoil the fun at the last minute. I think he is the cop but he could be scum too. I think if he is scum his plan went into full effect when our watcher/tracker flipped.

[pingpongsam]

Cuzz, if you were paying attention at all you’d see I’m basically able to see anyone but myself as scum. Why are you voting me when my death is already sealed? You are correct that if you are scum I survive which may be why you are trying to get a lynch on anyone but yourself. Never mind the fact that everyone is ok with lynching you so why am I the one you think is scum out of everyone?

[Cuzz]

Cuzz, if you were paying attention at all you’d see I’m basically able to see anyone but myself as scum. Why are you voting me when my death is already sealed? You are correct that if you are scum I survive which may be why you are trying to get a lynch on anyone but yourself. Never mind the fact that everyone is ok with lynching you so why am I the one you think is scum out of everyone?

Because I’m getting lynched here anyway and I don’t really care what happens.

[pingpongsam]

Cuzz, if you were paying attention at all you’d see I’m basically able to see anyone but myself as scum. Why are you voting me when my death is already sealed? You are correct that if you are scum I survive which may be why you are trying to get a lynch on anyone but yourself. Never mind the fact that everyone is ok with lynching you so why am I the one you think is scum out of everyone?

Because I’m getting lynched here anyway and I don’t really care what happens.

If you don’t care then admit you are scum and forfeit. My fate is cooked in and I am still trying to leave some ideas for town to find the scum. Your answer is non sequitur. I can only guess that means you know I am not scum and thus cannot properly form a reason for thinking I am.

If I were in your position as town I’d be trying to either make a solid case elsewhere or at least getting a real understanding of how my mislynch would further town’s wincon. Apathy is damnable.

[2.71828.....]

I really don't understand the plan.  I mean, I can definitely shoot tonight if everyone agrees, but town's power is its vote (unless you have magic PR abilities like Robz), and if I successfully shoot PPS and scum successfully kills, then we have just lost a day.

I mean, if we get results that find the last scum, awesome, but I don't know why it helps to have the extra kill.

[Robz888]

While thinking through the told you sos... remember Robz could be scum. Today we kill Cuzz and the tonight me and Awaclus die. Space is now “suspicious” and so is e. Mislynch one and NK the other FTW. Not bad for offing your partners for permacred. Just need to get rid of that one guy isn’t fully sold and might spoil the fun at the last minute. I think he is the cop but he could be scum too. I think if he is scum his plan went into full effect when our watcher/tracker flipped.

FWIW--and this is something you should consider for future games, if you are indeed town here--my scum read on you is almost solely based on you continuing to raise the ridiculous possibility that I could be scum here, which is something you would need to do in order to win if you are indeed scum.

[Cuzz]

While thinking through the told you sos... remember Robz could be scum. Today we kill Cuzz and the tonight me and Awaclus die. Space is now “suspicious” and so is e. Mislynch one and NK the other FTW. Not bad for offing your partners for permacred. Just need to get rid of that one guy isn’t fully sold and might spoil the fun at the last minute. I think he is the cop but he could be scum too. I think if he is scum his plan went into full effect when our watcher/tracker flipped.

FWIW--and this is something you should consider for future games, if you are indeed town here--my scum read on you is almost solely based on you continuing to raise the ridiculous possibility that I could be scum here, which is something you would need to do in order to win if you are indeed scum.

Oh I missed this somehow. Yeah the suspicion on Robz is insane and pps is real scummy for this.

[Robz888]

I really don't understand the plan.  I mean, I can definitely shoot tonight if everyone agrees, but town's power is its vote (unless you have magic PR abilities like Robz), and if I successfully shoot PPS and scum successfully kills, then we have just lost a day.

I mean, if we get results that find the last scum, awesome, but I don't know why it helps to have the extra kill.

It helps because we need to eliminate suspects. The town's collective wisdom here is influenced by people of unknown alignment, and I'd like to cut down on those.

I mean, I haven't exactly run the numbers, so if you can present a good argument for not shooting, please do so. But we essentially have to just eliminate as many not-me, not-DS, not-Space (tonight at least) people as possible, because right now we're looking for scum among them. You aren't going to accidentally shoot a PR. You aren't going to accidentally conflict with something a town PR is doing, since our town PRs are informed of exactly which player you are shooting.

Also, if you're scum, you can possibly double kill later for the win. This deprives you of that option.

[pingpongsam]

So Robz directs the vig because OMGUS, how classy.

I think these are reasonable arguments to make considering this is directly in line with something I would try to pull. Kim not advocating a Robz lynch I just want an I told you so for posterity if it proves to be true. Same for space.

Meanwhile I am fine with lynching Cuzz, e, and Awaclus in that order because the first is probably scum and is the easiest lynch, the second because he’s the vig and I think he could be scum and well nuff said and the last because he is the last option outside of the unlynchables. FWIW, short of mod confirmed IC status I don’t think anyone should be unlynchable and I detest that it happens so frequently and people get punished for resisting it.

[pingpongsam]

But if the case that I consider all options is so scummy why don’t you just vote me out instead and put your vote where your mouth is?

[pingpongsam]

I do take Cuzz’s defeatist attitude as demotivated scum.

[Cuzz]

I do take Cuzz’s defeatist attitude as demotivated scum.

Scum doesn’t get demotivated when they’re about to lose the game. They get antsy and frantic and give wild theories about how the cop who caught 2 scum might actually be scum himself.

[Robz888]

So Robz directs the vig because OMGUS, how classy.

It is'nt OMGUS, I don't normally think suspecting me is suspicious. Continuing to raise the possibility that I am scum in this specific case is what's suspicious.

[Robz888]

But if the case that I consider all options is so scummy why don’t you just vote me out instead and put your vote where your mouth is?

It's functionally the same, we can vote out you and shoot Cuzz if you prefer.

[2.71828.....]

I really don't understand the plan.  I mean, I can definitely shoot tonight if everyone agrees, but town's power is its vote (unless you have magic PR abilities like Robz), and if I successfully shoot PPS and scum successfully kills, then we have just lost a day.

I mean, if we get results that find the last scum, awesome, but I don't know why it helps to have the extra kill.

It helps because we need to eliminate suspects. The town's collective wisdom here is influenced by people of unknown alignment, and I'd like to cut down on those.

I mean, I haven't exactly run the numbers, so if you can present a good argument for not shooting, please do so. But we essentially have to just eliminate as many not-me, not-DS, not-Space (tonight at least) people as possible, because right now we're looking for scum among them. You aren't going to accidentally shoot a PR. You aren't going to accidentally conflict with something a town PR is doing, since our town PRs are informed of exactly which player you are shooting.

Also, if you're scum, you can possibly double kill later for the win. This deprives you of that option.

The problem with my shooting tonight is that worst case scenario is that we only have 4 alive starting tomorrow, which turns into a mylo no-lynch situation, which I guess is not terrible.  I mean, we could always just win tonight with a shot. 

My thinking is that I trust the town collective over my own reads every time.  I have a terrible track record of actually nailing down scum, and my top suspects are usually town (you know, like I thought Robz was scum earlier this game).  That being said, a directed vig shot is using the town collective.

[Robz888]

The problem with my shooting tonight is that worst case scenario is that we only have 4 alive starting tomorrow, which turns into a mylo no-lynch situation, which I guess is not terrible.  I mean, we could always just win tonight with a shot. 

I mean, it's the difference between having 4 alive, or having 4 alive + someone of uncertain alignment who is rather suspicious. Isn't it self apparent that the former scenario is better?

[2.71828.....]

The problem with my shooting tonight is that worst case scenario is that we only have 4 alive starting tomorrow, which turns into a mylo no-lynch situation, which I guess is not terrible.  I mean, we could always just win tonight with a shot. 

I mean, it's the difference between having 4 alive, or having 4 alive + someone of uncertain alignment who is rather suspicious. Isn't it self apparent that the former scenario is better?

I suppose you are right.  I mean, my shooting would basically be like our lynch for tomorrow if it comes down to that. 

[2.71828.....]

or we just lynch/kill scum.

sounds good

[pingpongsam]

So Robz directs the vig because OMGUS, how classy.

It is'nt OMGUS, I don't normally think suspecting me is suspicious. Continuing to raise the possibility that I am scum in this specific case is what's suspicious.

I brought it back up as parting thoughts because I thought we were about to end the day and I get vigged tonight. I didn’t realize we were going to have actual discussion. I’d like to feel vindicated by flipping town on you but I have legitimate fears about losing the game instead. That you keep using this as a means for suspicion on me is what keeps my suspicion alive so it is a mutual dynamic.

I’d like to hear how this not working out beautifully is going to implicate space. That whole bit is raising alarms as well. It certainly looks like preemptive setting up the final mislynch.

[Robz888]

Your opinions are bafflingly terrible.

[pingpongsam]

I actually have a pretty solid defense. Faust, who flipped town, thought I was town. Faust never, ever thinks I am town. If faust thinks I am town then I am practically an IC.

[Robz888]

I actually have a pretty solid defense. Faust, who flipped town, thought I was town. Faust never, ever thinks I am town. If faust thinks I am town then I am practically an IC.

I'm going to stick with my gut, which tells me that casting doubt on a virtual IC is something scum does here.

[Cuzz]

But if the case that I consider all options is so scummy why don’t you just vote me out instead and put your vote where your mouth is?

It's functionally the same, we can vote out you and shoot Cuzz if you prefer.

If it’s all the same, let’s just do this and win now then.

[Robz888]

But if the case that I consider all options is so scummy why don’t you just vote me out instead and put your vote where your mouth is?

It's functionally the same, we can vote out you and shoot Cuzz if you prefer.

If it’s all the same, let’s just do this and win now then.

Do which?

[Robz888]

The votes are already on Cuzz, so let's do it this way. We can lynch Cuzz now. DS, E, Space: remember your instructions.

[Cuzz]

The votes are already on Cuzz, so let's do it this way. We can lynch Cuzz now. DS, E, Space: remember your instructions.

K. vote: Cuzz

[pingpongsam]

Vote: Cuzz

[mcmcsalot]

Vote Count 4.Final

Cuzz (4): Awaclus, Robz888, Cuzz, pingpongsam

Note Voting (3):  2.71828....., datswan, SpaceAnemone

With 7 alive, it took 4 to lynch. Night 4 starts now and ends on May 31 at 8 AM forum time.

Cuzz was Josh Hoberman a Student aligned Universal Backup

Thread locked!

[mcmcsalot]

pingpongsam died!

He was Fen, a student-aligned vanilla townie.

Vote Count 5.0

Note Voting (5): Robz888, 2.71828....., datswan, Awaclus, SpaceAnemone

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch. Day 5 starts now and ends on June 7th at 8:00AM forum time.

Thread unlocked!

[2.71828.....]

I followed the plan and shot PPS. I think only one kill confirms DatSwan as doctor, which is awesome. Unless space is JK and prevented the kill.

Disappointed that we didn't finish scum off yesterday, but I think we are in a very good position moving forward.

[2.71828.....]

This is where I stand right now on everyone not me:

IC level - Robz - I think I said this yesterday, but if he is scum that outed two partners, gg, you win.  I do not think that is the case here at all.
Almost IC level - DatSwan - I think the lack of a second kill last night means DS protected the right person
Suspect - Space - Need the full claim and everything, but I know Robz wasn't fully convinced they were town based on their neighborhood discussions, need to know more to see what I think
Most suspect - Awaclus - Last VT remaining, POE gets me here, and I am ok with that.

Hopefully we have some results and such back that firmly implicate the last scum and this post is moot, but we will see.

[Robz888]

Well, first thing's first: DatSwan, who did you protect last night?

[Swowl]

I proced robz. I rolled a one sided due to come to that decision lol

[Robz888]

Hmm. I was hoping you had protected Space, which would give me greater confidence Space is not scum!

[Robz888]

Okay, here's the deal with Space: I instructed Space to lie and say they were a PR, when in fact, they are a VT (or a scum!PR I suppose).

My plan was to draw the night kill away from DatSwan, since I do believe DatSwan is a town Doctor, and was thus likely to die. I thought scum might shoot Space instead, if we suggested Space was a JK or an investigator, which would be nice because it would take care of my nagging suspicion that Space might be scum. Best case scenario would have been scum avoiding the Doc-JK possibilities going on with DS, Space, and me, and shoot E or Awaclus (whichever of the two was not scum).

No one dying could mean someone shot me and failed because of the Doctoring. This seems weird to me. It seems weird for scum to shoot me, when I was likely to be protected and Space was potentially a threat.

I'm quite concerned that no one dying means E is scum and saved his vig shot for tonight. I am also concerned Space decided to no-kill because Space thought if they killed DatSwan after everything I had done to draw the nightkill to Space, then I would be very suspicious of Space.

DatSwan being lying scum is possible but seems very unlikely to me. Scum DS should have shot Space last night.

I hate myself for not re-thinking the Cuzz lynch, he was seeming so townie by the end. No apologies for the vig shot against PPS.

We can still win this but I need help from whomever is actually town here.

[Robz888]

It's important to note that the Space-lies-about-having-a-PR plan was mine, and Space resisted it for a while before coming around.

[Swowl]

we need to know space draft order and selection at this point. there is no benefit in holding back.

[Robz888]

we need to know space draft order and selection at this point. there is no benefit in holding back.

Space's story: had position 8, went for 2-Shot Alignment Cop, did not get it, obviously.

[Robz888]

Probably I have to re-read for old fashioned wagon analysis. I'll try to work that into my schedule...

[Robz888]

If Awaclus did something useful for a change, that would be real great, since there's a very real chance he's not scum.

[Awaclus]

If Awaclus did something useful for a change, that would be real great, since there's a very real chance he's not scum.

Well, I did look at the setup earlier and conclude that I'm not an IC by virtue of being the last remaining VT. Turns out I wasn't even the last remaining VT anyway. That's the most useful thing I could think of.

[Awaclus]

I think it's e btw.

[Robz888]

I think it's e btw.

Can you tell me why you think it's E?

[Awaclus]

Because last night's events didn't do anything to convince me that e is town.

[Robz888]

Because last night's events didn't do anything to convince me that e is town.

Okay, but did they do anything to raise your suspicion of Space, given what I've just revealed?

[Swowl]

we need to know space draft order and selection at this point. there is no benefit in holding back.

Space's story: had position 8, went for 2-Shot Alignment Cop, did not get it, obviously.

if this is a lie in any way you need to correct it like right the fuck now.

[2.71828.....]

I like the plan from Robz.

I don't know that it changes my lynch pool for the day. Space/Awaclus is where I am looking at today.

[Swowl]

Okay, here's the deal with Space: I instructed Space to lie and say they were a PR, when in fact, they are a VT (or a scum!PR I suppose).

My plan was to draw the night kill away from DatSwan, since I do believe DatSwan is a town Doctor, and was thus likely to die. I thought scum might shoot Space instead, if we suggested Space was a JK or an investigator, which would be nice because it would take care of my nagging suspicion that Space might be scum. Best case scenario would have been scum avoiding the Doc-JK possibilities going on with DS, Space, and me, and shoot E or Awaclus (whichever of the two was not scum).

No one dying could mean someone shot me and failed because of the Doctoring. This seems weird to me. It seems weird for scum to shoot me, when I was likely to be protected and Space was potentially a threat.

I'm quite concerned that no one dying means E is scum and saved his vig shot for tonight. I am also concerned Space decided to no-kill because Space thought if they killed DatSwan after everything I had done to draw the nightkill to Space, then I would be very suspicious of Space.

DatSwan being lying scum is possible but seems very unlikely to me. Scum DS should have shot Space last night.

I hate myself for not re-thinking the Cuzz lynch, he was seeming so townie by the end. No apologies for the vig shot against PPS.

We can still win this but I need help from whomever is actually town here.

lol you know what's crazy is I actually have one of my notes from last night that is like "maybe they are trying to draw a kill".
OK more serious note - we have the remaining players in the game:

Swan - Doctor
Robz - 2 Shot Cop
E! - "0" Shot Vig
Space - VT (draft choices?)
Awaclus - VT (12, went MD)


Here is what I do not seem to understand. Skum got to pick last night who to shoot, and as they know I have to be the Doctor they absolutely should of picked me. By not picking me they (assuming all roles are accurate) they.... thought I would doctor Space? That just doesn't make any frikin sense.

more coming...

[SpaceAnemone]

we need to know space draft order and selection at this point. there is no benefit in holding back.

Space's story: had position 8, went for 2-Shot Alignment Cop, did not get it, obviously.

if this is a lie in any way you need to correct it like right the fuck now.

Robz's report about my role and bid are 100% accurate.

[Swowl]

we absolutely must lynch E! today.
The fact that we have all the flips we have, combined with no CC, combined with PPS claim, all suggests that E! is the Vig.

So either...
It is a Town!E Vig that shot PPS last night and skum is dumb enough to try and shoot Robz. In which case Space is prob skum. Or Robz - but honestly I have kind of "glhf-well played" removed that option from the table at this point.
or
It is Skum!E Vig that said he would kill PPS like a good boy and then didn't burn his shot. Why? because obv he did his job why would we lynch him? Except for the fact that if he is skum... its the easy lay up when he shoots me and Space tonight (or I guess me and Awaclus) because I will obv doctor Robz again... and he bring it to final day because there was no second bullet ever fired to this point.


Because of the absolute fact that no one knows if E! has actually shot yet or not - E! needs to be lynched today. If you are town, then I am sorry, but it is just the best plan.
We lynch a Town!E and then Skum gets one kill (probably me) and we wake up tomorrow 2-1 with one more chance.
We lynch a Skum!E and we win.
We lynch someone else and E! is skum and has a shot left to use.... E! wins the fucking game because it is 1v1.

E! has to die, there is just literally no discussion to be had on it.

If he flips town then fuck idk... i guess either tactic lynch Space or policy lynch Robz.

[Swowl]

we need to know space draft order and selection at this point. there is no benefit in holding back.

Space's story: had position 8, went for 2-Shot Alignment Cop, did not get it, obviously.

if this is a lie in any way you need to correct it like right the fuck now.

Robz's report about my role and bid are 100% accurate.

thank you. I now stand 100% by my just posted as opposed to the 99% before the confirmation.

[Awaclus]

Because last night's events didn't do anything to convince me that e is town.

Okay, but did they do anything to raise your suspicion of Space, given what I've just revealed?

A little, yeah. But the main thing is that this is how I would definitely expect the night to work out if e was scum, whereas I don't think it's obvious that it would go like this if it was Space.

[SpaceAnemone]

Sorry I was so quiet at the end of last day and opening of this day... I was saying stuff over in the QT, but mainly in-thread I didn't want to say things that might out Robz's plan. I was saying in the neighbourhood that absorbing the NK would be great because I wouldn't have to deal with explaining why lying to town had been a good idea.

I was a bit worried that Robz would reveal that we'd lied, and then turn on me having talked me into lying, and force town to take me out as a liar. If PPS and Swan had died last night, I think he could have persuaded e and Awaclus to lynch liar!me for a victory. The fact Swan protected Robz means there's no chance that Robz is scum who'd tried to take someone else out in order to get to that situation, so I really ought to stop considering possibilities for Robz lying now.

What scum has motivation not to kill Swan, though? Maybe e if he actually NKd PPS and is saving his vig shot for a chance at a double-kill victory tonight. Or Swan as a scum himself, though I do think that scum's play up till that point had seemed like they were playing around a possible protective role, so having the main protective role on their team seems less likely. I don't think Awaclus has any reason to leave Swan alive other than wifom. Same goes for me, really.. I know Robz has a worry that I could be scum who decided not to kill Swan because of worry that he'll turn on me, but why would him being dead make me any more suspicious than e or Awaclus? (Robz, the stuff I was reminding you of in the neighbourhood about how important it was to seem like you were dictating targets and stuff was a very genuine attempt on my part to help absorb the NK!).

PPE 3

[SpaceAnemone]

we absolutely must lynch E! today.
The fact that we have all the flips we have, combined with no CC, combined with PPS claim, all suggests that E! is the Vig.

So either...
It is a Town!E Vig that shot PPS last night and skum is dumb enough to try and shoot Robz. In which case Space is prob skum. Or Robz - but honestly I have kind of "glhf-well played" removed that option from the table at this point.
or
It is Skum!E Vig that said he would kill PPS like a good boy and then didn't burn his shot. Why? because obv he did his job why would we lynch him? Except for the fact that if he is skum... its the easy lay up when he shoots me and Space tonight (or I guess me and Awaclus) because I will obv doctor Robz again... and he bring it to final day because there was no second bullet ever fired to this point.


Because of the absolute fact that no one knows if E! has actually shot yet or not - E! needs to be lynched today. If you are town, then I am sorry, but it is just the best plan.
We lynch a Town!E and then Skum gets one kill (probably me) and we wake up tomorrow 2-1 with one more chance.
We lynch a Skum!E and we win.
We lynch someone else and E! is skum and has a shot left to use.... E! wins the fucking game because it is 1v1.

E! has to die, there is just literally no discussion to be had on it.

If he flips town then fuck idk... i guess either tactic lynch Space or policy lynch Robz.

I agree with everything about the e-lynch necessity, and I also think there's a reasonably chance he's likely to be the scum.

If he does flp town, though, we absolutely definitely need to keep Awaclus in the lynch pool! I'm way more suspicious of him than Robz at this point, and I posted a list of reasons for suspicion on each of the four of them (Cuzz, PPS, e and Awaclus) in the neighbourhood even before I said anything in-thread about voting patterns and stuff.

[Swowl]

kay cool good enough for this guy

Vote: E!

[2.71828.....]

I see walls of text then cool let's lynch e. I still need to reread the posts, but I don't know that I agree with the conclusion

[Robz888]

I agree I'm more inclined to lynch E here, simply because I definitely get another shot tomorrow if I'm wrong.

I think E not burning his shot IS most likely explanation for what happened.

[Robz888]

I see walls of text then cool let's lynch e. I still need to reread the posts, but I don't know that I agree with the conclusion

The issue is that if you are town, we have two more lynches, but if you are scum, we only have more lynch. In order to not lynch you, I have to bet that you are less scummy than Space and Awaclus and DatSwan (also, DS will probably be eliminated from the lynch pool if we get one more day).

[Robz888]

I mean it's possible DS blocks one of the extra shots scum!E needs to get off tonight. It's also possible scum!E took a crazy bold shot at me last night, or some other night, and has nothing extra left. So we don't lose immediately if we don't lynch him here. Still...

[2.71828.....]

Ok, yeah. I guess it does make sense from a potential threat position.

That being said, the other potential scenario is simply scum didn't shoot because they knew my lynch would be an easy argument. If scum had successfully killed we would have 4 alive, no lynch today to set up lylo tomorrow.

Since a no kill happened (either through protection or just no kill), it could very well be posturing for lylo. Let's assume scum killed hydrad, no lynch, kill robz. Lylo is me, awaclus, space. Now lylo (if I get lynched) is robz, awaclus, space.

Space and awaclus are both in those scenarios, and they are where I am looking for scum. I think at a minimum (even if we lynch me) I want to have time and provide feedback on who I think is scum between them

[Robz888]

Ok, yeah. I guess it does make sense from a potential threat position.

That being said, the other potential scenario is simply scum didn't shoot because they knew my lynch would be an easy argument. If scum had successfully killed we would have 4 alive, no lynch today to set up lylo tomorrow.

Since a no kill happened (either through protection or just no kill), it could very well be posturing for lylo. Let's assume scum killed hydrad, no lynch, kill robz. Lylo is me, awaclus, space. Now lylo (if I get lynched) is robz, awaclus, space.

Space and awaclus are both in those scenarios, and they are where I am looking for scum. I think at a minimum (even if we lynch me) I want to have time and provide feedback on who I think is scum between them

Hydrad? What?

[2.71828.....]

DatSwan. Sorry, again. DatSwan. I don't know why I keep doing that

[2.71828.....]

I don't even have ongoing games with hydrad or anything. I was typing this out on my phone as I walked my dog if that is any excuse

[Swowl]

Ok, yeah. I guess it does make sense from a potential threat position.

That being said, the other potential scenario is simply scum didn't shoot because they knew my lynch would be an easy argument. If scum had successfully killed we would have 4 alive, no lynch today to set up lylo tomorrow.

Since a no kill happened (either through protection or just no kill), it could very well be posturing for lylo. Let's assume scum killed hydrad, no lynch, kill robz. Lylo is me, awaclus, space. Now lylo (if I get lynched) is robz, awaclus, space.

Space and awaclus are both in those scenarios, and they are where I am looking for scum. I think at a minimum (even if we lynch me) I want to have time and provide feedback on who I think is scum between them

Feel the need to point out again that yeah... your points are solid, but I would much rather flip it out between Space and Awaclus tomorrow (or whoever), and lynch you today. It is nothing to do with you or your play... it's just that it makes sense. If there is even a 1% chance in anyone's head saying "oh maybe such and such could happen and we could consider E! tomorrow..." then it is not worth letting you live.

I hate to beat a dead horse - but I purposely left PPS off my skum read list on the lynch list. So there is like 0% reason for skum to believe I would protect PPS (also considering my previous pushes on them). E! eliminating PPS just makes sense as Skum!E. It further "verifies" their role.

The absolute only other possibility that makes sense is that Robz is Skum, given I did not die last night... and that is like a bazillion times less likely than E!

All in all, it doesn't matter - there is only one correct play today and that is to lynch E!

To expand:
Skum!Space = Kills me. Why the hell not? like one reason, really?
Skum!Robz = Kills me. Or maybe Space to set up Town!E, but those are the only two options other than glhf Robz is king of skum.
Skum!Awaclus = Kills me. Again, why the hell wouldn't they?
Skum!E = Kills PPS as they were told to and reserves the vig shot to solidify the win. Or, I suppose, they dumbly shoot 2 people last night (one of which sure as shit wouldn't of been Robz)... so actually yeah no that doesn't make any sense.
Skum!Swan = Town!Doctor... because there is literally no other scenario at this point in which Robz is alive.


All of this adds up to an LCD of Swan/E!/Robz. If ya'll want to hash it out tomorrow that is cool.


But if we lynch E! and he is skum we win.
If we don't lynch E! and he is skum we lose.
If we lynch E! and he is town, we get another chance tomorrow. 

Awaclus (or anyone) - poke holes in that please.

[Swowl]

I also believe that if we are going to drag this out to the end of the day then Robz and Space should talk almost exclusively in their private thread.
Robz I will doc you at night, but if E! is left alive you should divulge summaries prior to night.

[Swowl]

Ok, yeah. I guess it does make sense from a potential threat position.

That being said, the other potential scenario is simply scum didn't shoot because they knew my lynch would be an easy argument. If scum had successfully killed we would have 4 alive, no lynch today to set up lylo tomorrow.

Since a no kill happened (either through protection or just no kill), it could very well be posturing for lylo. Let's assume scum killed hydrad, no lynch, kill robz. Lylo is me, awaclus, space. Now lylo (if I get lynched) is robz, awaclus, space.

Space and awaclus are both in those scenarios, and they are where I am looking for scum. I think at a minimum (even if we lynch me) I want to have time and provide feedback on who I think is scum between them

You mean Space and Awaclus are both in these asinine scenarios where we allow it to go to no lynch? Also to point out that you are in that lylo scenario as well.

[Robz888]

Yeah, we all agree we have to lynch E. Probably the best argument against E being scum is that he should have seen this possibility and planned accordingly. But if he had burned his extra shot earlier, of course he would not be able to.

[Swowl]

 Guys this sucks can we just fucking boat someone and get done with it

[2.71828.....]

Sorry, some long days at work made it impossible to look at the game.

[Robz888]

I guess we just need parting thoughts from E and then we can lynch.

[SpaceAnemone]

Just posting here so I don't accidently pick up prods. I'm talking to Robz over in Hydrad's neighbourhood a bit, but it's pretty slow. Happy to wait for e to have time to post final thoughts.

[Awaclus]

Yeah, at this point we're really just waiting for e.

[2.71828.....]

I haven't had time to fully reread, but my gut says space. Robz - I know you are influenced by activity, and sharing a neighborhood is very likely going to influence you in lylo. I ask that you look past that.

Vote: Space for what it's worth

[2.71828.....]

Feel free to lynch whenever

[2.71828.....]

Or, you know, lynch space

[Robz888]

Yeah, I feel like you're just saying that it's Space because that's what you think I want to hear in order to maybe not lynch you. This feels right, and also necessary.

Vote: E

DatSwan, you better protect me tonight. If I am not alive tomorrow, and DatSwan is, uh, lynch DatSwan, please.

If E isn't scum, I'll be re-reading Awaclus and Space, I guess.

[SpaceAnemone]

Huh. I feel better about lynching e if I'm the best alternative he can come up with!

vote: e

[Awaclus]

Vote: e

[2.71828.....]

Yeah, probably should have taken that second shot last night. Robz, your plan for spaces fake claim totally worked on me and had me second guessing everything.

[2.71828.....]

 Also was totally convinced robz was JOAT because of his D1 start joking  about claiming. Which led to not killing robz n2. Which is good I guess since DatSwan protected him

[2.71828.....]

Lylo with space/Awaclus would have been tough for me anyway I think

[2.71828.....]

Especially since only one scum had flipped on that D1 wagon and space/Awaclus were both off wagon

[iguanaiguana]

2.71828... got lynched. He was Reynard the Fox, an evil being aligned one shot vigilante.

The game is over. Town wins!

DatSwan was Alice Quinn, a student aligned doctor.

Robz888 was Tod, a student-aligned 2 shot alignment cop.

SpaceAnemone was Marina Andrieski, a student aligned vanilla townie.

Awaclus was William "Penny" Adiyodi, a student aligned vanilla townie.

Thread unlocked to all.

[Swowl]

Hey GG everyone!
E! - I liked your last play man, almost worked.

[Robz888]

Hooray!!!

Yeah, if you had used up the second shot for sure, I dunno, I might have lynched Space here. I was getting pretty suspicious. I was never lynching Awaclus, I had secretly decided to bet the game on Awaclus being town.

[Hydrad]

hurrah.

[Robz888]

This is a good example of a neighborhood actually being used well. Despite not knowing hydrad's alignment for sure, I could guess he was town since the mafia had killed his first neighbor. And Space and I were able to use it to coordinate on a plan that actually worked to fool scum!

[Hydrad]

hurrah. I'll be honest though I just picked neighborizor because I enjoy them. So i'm glad it helped a bit.

[pingpongsam]

I was still convinced Robz might be scumgod forever. I’m a bit disappointed. I’m also a bit heated that punishing me took precedence over lynching the vig which was the obvious right move regardless of alignment. I am equally guilty for voting Cuzz too tho. Obvious MVP to Robz.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Best replacement situation ever, lol. gg town

[Swowl]

also IDK how it works but for sure MVP Robz

[pingpongsam]

I’d like to see the neighborhood QT

[Robz888]

Neighborhood here: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/UEfswC6jB7T

I'd like to see scum and mod QTs.

[pingpongsam]

Reading the Neighborhood was helpful. So it was a tossup between me or Awaclus and I had to go for actually posting thoughts and playing through the game in general. That space was doing all the cogitation in the neighborhood explains my continued off read on them.

[mcmcsalot]

MVP goes to Robz!. The game which was ultimately slightly in favor of town based on their excellent draft was made even more easy by Robz nailing two scum the first two nights.

Special shoutout to Datswan and Hydrad who both did a great job of being towny enough to trust and facilitate robz to really direct the game with a clear picture.

Secondary shoutout to Faust whos 9th place draft of ninja prevented scum from having ninja with their 10th draft.

An interesting thing to note is that Robz Cop is the only power to have directly influenced the game. Doctor Datswan never once blocked a kill(though may have dissuaded scum from shooting robz), The universal backup inherited the town ninja, Mafia's tracker died day two, and Mafia's vig never used their shot.

Mafia did gain an advantage. Upon first drafting 2.7 went for the JOAT(study knowledge) with the second draft pick and would have been blocked by robz first pick, as Schadd's ninja had also been blocked mafia would have ended up with just a tracker. I allowed 2.7 to re draft, this would allow him to know the number one draft spot went to the cop(or JOAT) as well as select essentially any power he wanted. After that I felt the sides were relatively balanced, I was fearful for the Cop/Doctor/UB combo to allow for an endless Cop/doc chain but I thought that was what town deserved for drafting so well.

[mcmcsalot]

Some snapshots from the mod qt:

In part one I added together the values for all items and created an aggregate ranking.
1. Game of Thrones
2. The Lord of the Rings
3. Harry Potter
4. The Magicians
5. The Chronicles of Narnia

1. The Ring of Power
2. The Elder Wand
3. The Leo Blade
4. Lightbringer
5. Lucy's Cordial

Bonus Questions
Gandalf 10, Dumbledore 3
Narnia 9, Fillory 4


In part two people guessed that ranking and players received -1 for each space away from the correct placement of an answer. (a 1 in parentheses indicates a correct guess to the bonus tiebreaker questions.)

Ordered based on time recieved
-12 Hydrad: (-3, -1, -2, -2, 0)(-2, 0, -2, 0, 0) / (1,1)
-6 Witherweaver: (-1, -1, 0, -1, -1)(0, 0, 0, -1, -1) / (1,0)
-10 schadd: (0, -1, -1, -1, -1)(-3, -1, -1, -1, 0) / (1,0)
-8 Faust: (0, -1, -1, -1, -1)(-1, -1, -2, 0, 0) / (0,1)
-16 Awaclus (-1, -3, -1, -3, -2)(-2, -1, -1, -1, -1) / (1,1)
0 Robz888 (0, 0, 0, 0, 0)(0, 0, 0, 0, 0) / (1,1)
-2 2.71828..... (0, 0, 0, 0, 0)(0, 0, -1, -1, 0) / (1,1)
-4 Jimmmmm (0, 0, 0, 0, 0)(0, -2, 0, -2, 0) / (1,0)
-4 datswan (0, 0, -1, -1, 0)(0, 0, -1, -1, 0) / (1,0)
-18 pingpongsam (-1, -1, -2, -1, -1)(-2, -2, -2, -3, -3) / (1,1)
-4 Xxraptorslayer96 (-1, -1, 0, -1, -1)(0, 0, 0, 0, 0) / (0,1)
-4 Cuzz (-1, -1, 0, -1, -1)(0, 0, 0, 0, 0) / (1,1)
-6 SpaceAnemone (0, 0, 0, 0, 0)(-1, -2, -2, -1, 0) / (1,0)

Robz was the only player to get a perfect score, -4 was the most common score.


Draft Selection looked like this:

Study Physical
Ninja - Faust 9, schaad 10
Strongman

Study Natural
Neighborizer - Hydrad 11
Motion Detector awaclus 12

Study Knowledge
2-shot Allignment Cop - Robz 1, SpaceAnemone 8
JOAT (1-shot Ninja, 1-shot Strongman, 1-shot Roleblocker)

Study Healing
Doctor - datswan 5
1-shot Bulletproof

Study Psychic
1-shot Commuter
2-shot Motivator

Pray to Our Lady of the Underground
Watcher
Tracker - Jimmmm 4

Party with Bacchus
Day 2 Innocent Child (Town Only) Witherweaver 7
Universal Backup Cuzz 3 Xxraptorslayer96

Work for the Library
Jailkeeper
JOAT (1-shot Role Cop, 1-shot Tracker, 1-shot Reloader)

Sleep with a God
1-shot Vigilante 2.71828 2 pingpongsam 13
Roleblocker

Make a Fairy Deal (3 Random Slots will be chosen and one random unchosen PR from each will fill out this slot)
Day 2 innocent child
Motion Detector
Roleblocker

[mcmcsalot]

Full mod qt https://quicktopic.com/52/H/eJRD6MyBRpk5Q
Speccy https://quicktopic.com/52/H/A4p9W56XuDg6Y

[Robz888]

Where's the mafia QT?

[mcmcsalot]

Mafia QT https://quicktopic.com/52/H/ZcSM5yU3e8MTX

[faust]

There is talk in the mod QT about my decision to take Ninja over Strongman. Ultimately I thought the likelihood of Strongman winding up in Fairy Deal and a scum taking it were not very high, and I would look townier being a Ninja than being a Strongman.

This game shows the power of Follow-the-Cop. Obviously Robz' night targeting was excellent. Scum probably should have used 1-shot vig + factional kill the same night... it is my understanding that this would have killed him. Of course it would look bad for the vig. It was probably a mistake to take vig over Roleblocker to begin with.

[mcmcsalot]

There is talk in the mod QT about my decision to take Ninja over Strongman. Ultimately I thought the likelihood of Strongman winding up in Fairy Deal and a scum taking it were not very high, and I would look townier being a Ninja than being a Strongman.

This game shows the power of Follow-the-Cop. Obviously Robz' night targeting was excellent. Scum probably should have used 1-shot vig + factional kill the same night... it is my understanding that this would have killed him. Of course it would look bad for the vig. It was probably a mistake to take vig over Roleblocker to begin with.

Totally agree, I didn't think about ninja looking townie than strongman which makes sense.

It's interesting because I think there were some waay better thing scum should have drafted but in the end none of it would have mattered since robz took out the Jimm so fast. I was hoping Jimm would have gone for the Work for Library JOAT instead of full tracker, because it had a 1-shot track, a 1-shot rolecop which would be great for scum and a reloader to reload 2.7's vig. But again he would have still died day 2.

[2.71828.....]

It was probably a mistake to take vig over Roleblocker to begin with.

yeah, I was just disappointed that I didn't get my mafia JOAT and prevent town from getting the two-shot cop that I just kind of went and took vig without giving it too much extra thought.

[2.71828.....]

I am surprised no one went to work for the library.  Town JOAT is great, plus JK is really good (for town or scum).

[pingpongsam]

I sincerely considered going for day 2 IC. I should have in retrospect.

[schadd]

im gnna count this as a loss so that my win-loss is 6-9