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Author Topic: In a 3-4p tournament setting, what's the best way to minimize luck?  (Read 3411 times)

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Forge!!!

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A lot of these non-isotropic tournaments feature two things: more than 2 players per game, and much less experienced opponents. What's the best way to minimize luck and play effectively in 3 or 4 player games? I've found in general that simpler strategies work, going for duchies earlier is better, and to watch out for 3 piling, because people love their pawns and villages. Does anyone else have any tips?
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tko

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Re: In a 3-4p tournament setting, what's the best way to minimize luck?
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2012, 04:37:25 pm »
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I played a 3-player IRL game today where I had 2 Ambassadors but an opponent got a Hoard on turn 3.  At that point, my strategy that might be reasonable in a 2-player game was outclassed and way too slow.

So adjust your strategy.  Masquerade feels great for multiplayer but Ambassador can be a little slow - maybe 1 Ambassador instead of 2.

On other posts, it's already been discussed that Pirate Ship is better in multiplayer.  So is Noble Brigand (unless Royal Seal, Cache, or other non-basic treasures are around).

Regarding the 3-piles, I've seen Jester empty piles very quickly and suprisingly so watch out for that crazy, random card.
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Arya Stark

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Re: In a 3-4p tournament setting, what's the best way to minimize luck?
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2012, 04:37:36 pm »
+1

watch the piles for sure! people will end the game when they are not in the lead just to end it, which is so frustrating for someone in 2nd place and they are about to have a good turn
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dondon151

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Re: In a 3-4p tournament setting, what's the best way to minimize luck?
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2012, 04:42:12 pm »
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Sometimes players don't like sitting through a game that they will clearly lose, so definitely watch out for those kingmaker scenarios.
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mischiefmaker

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Re: In a 3-4p tournament setting, what's the best way to minimize luck?
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2012, 06:17:26 pm »
+3

1. 4p and up games are much faster than 2p and 3p games, because in 2p and 3p games there are 4 provinces per player, but only 3 per player in 4+ games. Therefore, in 4+p games, you should a) green earlier than you otherwise would, since you need to get your share of the provinces and you're less worried about stalling out, and b) you should favor strategies that are fast over strategies that deliver megaturns later.

2. The number of green cards changes, but the number of kingdom cards does not. For this reason I tend to shy away from decks that are combo based and need multiples of a single popular card (especially if that card is a village-type), unless the combo is incredibly powerful or there is sufficient trashing, since it's very likely that you'll end up with fewer of the card than you need and you'll have 1-2 piles depleted or near depleted by the time you figure it out.

3. Rush strategies play very differently. Consider Workshop/Gardens. If you're the only one playing this strategy, you'll likely need 4 more turns to empty the Gardens, plus another 3-4 turns to empty the Estates, than you normally would. In a 4p game, you're talking about needing 7 more turns to end the game -- chances are that the game ends on Provinces before you get a chance to do that. The math changes in similar ways for Duke and Silk Road strategies.

4. Opponent strategy is much more important. In a 2p game, if I go Witch and you don't, I'm probably going to win. In a 4p game, if three of us go Witches, the guy who goes Moats has the best chance of winning. This ties in with the previous 2 points -- if you spot a strong strategy that nobody else does, then you're clear to gobble up as many of the key cards as you need; similarly, if someone else is Workshop/Gardening in a 3p game, it's very likely the two of you can 3-pile very early. It helps to know your opponents, but reading their opening and turn 3-4 buys is pretty important.

5. Opponent skill is more important. In a 2p game, if I get to 5 Provinces first (and there are no alternative VP, etc.), chances are good I'm going to win, even if I stall, because I can buy Duchies. In a 3p game, this is also true...unless one of your opponents is absolutely terrible, allowing your other opponent to green later and beat you by getting 6 Provinces (or 7). It's important to have at least a rough idea of each player's deck and whether they'll be buying Provinces anytime soon, and how many you think they'll end up with.

6. Attacks are much more devastating. Torturer with no village in 2p is pretty benign. Cutpurse is pretty weak after the early-game. Saboteur is only worth considering if you can play it consistently. But in multiplayer, a lot of these considerations go away -- if each of your opponents has a Saboteur, that's pretty similar to having a single opponent who can play his every turn. Same goes for Torturer. When you read the board, consider the possibility that each of your opponents will be playing, say, Bureaucrat, and adjust accordingly.
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Forge!!!

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Re: In a 3-4p tournament setting, what's the best way to minimize luck?
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2012, 07:35:37 pm »
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Some great advice, thanks everyone =)

Haha, it looks like someone who is level 40 is going to the tournament too. There goes the idea of everyone being less skilled  :P
« Last Edit: February 28, 2012, 07:51:26 pm by Forge!!! »
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Geronimoo

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Re: In a 3-4p tournament setting, what's the best way to minimize luck?
« Reply #6 on: February 29, 2012, 04:57:05 am »
+1

The one very interesting thing about multi-player dominion is that it's much less of a solitaire game than 2-player dominion.

An example (let's assume Smithy Big Money is the only viable strategy on the board):

You open Smithy/Silver and your opponent opens Village/Silver. Easy, you can just completely ignore what your opponent does for the rest of the game.

If we add a third player who also opens Smithy/Silver, suddenly what your Village idiot opponent does for the rest of the game has a real impact on your strategy: if he's a decent player and builds a Village/Smithy engine but doesn't know it's slower than simple Smithy Big Money you should aim for the normal strategy: get one Gold, then get Provinces. However if he's a true Village idiot buying out all the Villages first, then you need to change your strategy because your deck will need to be able to get 7 Provinces to win! This means you'll need 2 or even 3 Golds before you start greening.
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Ozle

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Re: In a 3-4p tournament setting, what's the best way to minimize luck?
« Reply #7 on: February 29, 2012, 06:32:15 am »
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Geroninininimooo has it about right.
I only ever seem to play 3 or 4 player in real life, (due to the massively popular guy I am, haha) and you got to watch what everyone is doing.

If for example they all go pirate ship or thief, A) prepare yourself for a long game, and B)possibly look for a 3 pile strategy

So you got to analyise your opponents pretty quickly, if your at a tournament and you finish early, wander over and watch them play. Even down to seeing if they have to read the cards to double check what they do.

And as importantly said here, get those greens quickly, dont waste time setting up a massive engine, because even the newbest player will buy a province on 8, so you cant wait till build up your super duper turn, because when it comes there might only be three provinces left to buy (Im guilty of this plenty of times).  Although im not so sutre of the early duke advice, because it will slow you down, so dont do it until late enough that it wont matter
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