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[Tahtweasel]

I don't think we've had a thread like this since Hinterlands. I challenge anyone to come up with a kingdom half as annoying as this one.

Scrying Pool
Secret Chamber
Ghost Ship
Hamlet
Spy
Moneylender
Pearl Diver
Cutpurse
Inn
Young Witch (Bane: Pawn)

[chwhite]

Hey, that actually seems like a really fun kingdom. 

[Epoch]

What's the context for "annoying" here?  Length of time of your opponent's turns on isotropic?  Because, yes, these would make for very long turns.

[jonts26]

You should throw a Goons in there just to make sure no one wants to end this game on Provinces.

[greatexpectations]

You should throw a Goons in there just to make sure no one wants to end this game on Provinces.

that would probably speed up the game if anything.  on a scrying pool board hamlets, pawns, and pearl divers would go real quick.

[RisingJaguar]

Scrying pool with secret chambers... *shudders*

But yes this does look like a fun game. 

[eHalcyon]

I don't think we've had a thread like this since Hinterlands. I challenge anyone to come up with a kingdom half as annoying as this one

Probably not the same kind of annoying as your example, but...

Border Village
Goons
Adventurer
Harem
Nobles
Fairgrounds
Possession
King's Court
Forge
Expand

(No colonies)

I think it would be pretty annoying if every kingdom card was $6 or $7.



Vineyard
Tunnel
Throne Room
Island
Quarry
Golem
Royal Seal
Contraband
Harem
King's Court

Quarry, TR, KC and Golem, where the only other action is... Island.... awesome.



Masquerade
Swindler
Ambassador
Militia
Sea Hag
Bureaucrat
Saboteur/Ghost Ship
Torturer
Ill-Gotten Gains
Peddler

Peddler is in there solely for Swindler.  Maybe Possession can replace something too, for Ambassador and Masquerade "fun".

[mischiefmaker]

RE: games that just take forever, are you sure you couldn't fit King's Court-Cartographer in there somewhere? Seems like every game I play with that combo has me staring at the screen wondering if my opponent is still there....oh, ok, there, he put all 4 cards back on the deck...and drew another...and looks at 3 of those cards again...

Also, http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120210-194546-b10d8a83.html. Seems like a fairly innocuous board but this 16-turn game went nearly half an hour long.

[andwilk]

What's wrong with that kingdom?  It looks interesting enough to me. Definitely not the "worst" kingdom I would think of.  This one is just asking for a Scrying Pool deck.  Once you are drawing a lot of your deck, Secret Chamber can be used for money.

Voila.


What do people consider a "bad/worst" kingdom.  To me, it's a lack of useful strategic card combinations in the kingdom, basically forcing a Big Money game.  My worst kingdom would be this:

Counting House
Saboteur
Feast
Quarry
Great Hall
Scheme
Village
Embargo
Native Village
Pearl Diver

Why is this the worst kingdom?  It has villages, but no draw.  Counting House and Quarry are there, but no +buys to support them.  The lack of worthwhile actions hurts Quarry as well.  Feast is there, but with crappy $5 actions.  Scheme... there's nothing to scheme!  And I added Embargo in there so that you could embargo the only important cards: money and victory cards.

[ecq]

Real game presented to me in veto mode (Colony game):

The 12 chosen cards are Black Market, Goons, King's Court, Menagerie, Oasis, Possession, Saboteur, Smithy, Throne Room, Torturer, Venture, and Witch.

Vetoes were Saboteur and Black Market.

I sat down to design a more annoying kingdom but I kept coming up with nearly the same cards.  So, I'd say that set, except veto Menagerie and Smithy.  Possibly replace Witch with Moat.

[Tahtweasel]

What's wrong with that kingdom?  It looks interesting enough to me. Definitely not the "worst" kingdom I would think of.  This one is just asking for a Scrying Pool deck.  Once you are drawing a lot of your deck, Secret Chamber can be used for money.

Voila.

Yes, there exists a strategy for the board I created - a strategy that encourages people to both (a) play an attack card repeatedly and (b) purchase Secret Chamber.

[Tahtweasel]

Here's another submission of mine:

Chapel
Golem
Possession
Farming Village

No $2 cards or attacks.

Once you've played this sort of board enough, you will know exactly why.

[jotheonah]

...but Chapel is a $2 card.

[randomdragoon]

I don't think we've had a thread like this since Hinterlands. I challenge anyone to come up with a kingdom half as annoying as this one.

Scrying Pool
Secret Chamber
Ghost Ship
Hamlet
Spy
Moneylender
Pearl Diver
Cutpurse
Inn
Young Witch (Bane: Pawn)

Might be more annoying if it was Margrave instead, so your opponents have to do something every time you play it, not just the first. Replace Moneylender with Spice Merchant to cause more clicking. Also, if there is a way to fit in both Treasury and Alchemist into that board, then each cleanup becomes a massive pain as well (Isotropic will repeatedly ask you if you want to clean up Treasury or Alchemist or some irrelevant card first, and when you click on one, it will ask you again if you want to put it on top)

[jonts26]

Here's my submission for worst kingdom design:

Hamlet
Swindler
Smugglers
Scheme
Chancellor
Sea Hag
Throne Room
Scout
Margrave
Adventurer

The key cards here are Swindler and Sea Hag. Chancellor, Scout and Adventurer only exist to give good swindle targets at 3,4 and 6. Scheme, Hamlet, and Throne room are there to facilitate early and often attacking. Smugglers for some added randomness and another option for opening. And Margrave for a discard attack, but one which makes it more likely that everyone plays there attacks as often as possible.

[randomdragoon]

Here's my submission for worst kingdom design:

Hamlet
Swindler
Smugglers
Scheme
Chancellor
Sea Hag
Throne Room
Scout
Margrave
Adventurer

The key cards here are Swindler and Sea Hag. Chancellor, Scout and Adventurer only exist to give good swindle targets at 3,4 and 6. Scheme, Hamlet, and Throne room are there to facilitate early and often attacking. Smugglers for some added randomness and another option for opening. And Margrave for a discard attack, but one which makes it more likely that everyone plays there attacks as often as possible.

Personally, I like Farmland as a $6 swindler target much more - they only get the benefit on buy, not on gain.

[jotheonah]

Here's my submission for worst kingdom design:

Hamlet
Swindler
Smugglers
Scheme
Chancellor
Sea Hag
Throne Room
Scout
Margrave
Adventurer

The key cards here are Swindler and Sea Hag. Chancellor, Scout and Adventurer only exist to give good swindle targets at 3,4 and 6. Scheme, Hamlet, and Throne room are there to facilitate early and often attacking. Smugglers for some added randomness and another option for opening. And Margrave for a discard attack, but one which makes it more likely that everyone plays there attacks as often as possible.

For some reason I want to see Saboteur in this kingdom for true horribleness.

[chwhite]

Here's my submission:

Transmute
Workshop
Swindler
Scout
Coppersmith
Feast
Saboteur
Counting House
Adventurer
Peddler

Have fun playing Swindler-BM!  Hope your Provinces don't become Peddlers!  I was thinking about Chancellor... but it would arguably be too useful here, Workshop is worse.

[petrie911]

Perhaps this wouldn't be the worst kingdom, but seeing these kinds of kingdoms always annoys me

Scrying Pool
Bridge
Goons
Coppersmith
Chapel
Lookout
Vault
Scheme
Library
Outpost

It feels like there *should* be some sort of combo here, but there just isn't.

Here's another submission of mine:

Chapel
Golem
Possession
Farming Village

No $2 cards or attacks.

Once you've played this sort of board enough, you will know exactly why.

That sounds horrible to play IRL.  Especially once you get done with all the possessing and have to figure out whose turn it is.

[olneyce]

Chapel
Remodel
Salvager
Lookout
Mint
Expand
Bank
Coppersmith
Swindler
Trade Route

[Wingnut]

Fortune Teller
Ambassador
Talisman
Duchess
Possession
King Court
Throne Room
Saboteur
Workshop
Smugglers

Have fun trying to do anything other than Amb ping pong. And once that ends, its still Amb ping pong, only with Possession and any point that might have been found.

[O]

Moat
Lighthouse
Duchess
Hamlet
Secret Chamber
Fortune Teller
Thief
Pawn
Scout
Fairgrounds