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Screwyioux

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Fortress Big Money
« on: April 02, 2018, 11:26:30 am »
+8

Fortress Big Money



With our most recent episode of the podcast out, I wanted to clarify a reference we made to one of the staple strategies in high-level Dominion counterplay. I figured most people knew about it, but it looks like some arenít aware of the power combo.
Thatís okay though, itís why we do what we do. It doesnít mean weíve failed, it just means we need to slow down and take a step back (only been teaching domindion for like a month or something so itís understandable if some people need to catch up). Iím going to start with the basics here. I think most of us know that drawing cards is powerful, and actions win games, but you never know whoís reading (who knows, maybe Iíll even read this before I publish).

Weíll start by talking about something else. My qualifications for this are that Iím very good at Dominion (I played in the gencon qualifier last year and I own all the expansions).

Whatís the goal of a big money deck? Obviously, itís to buy 5 of the 8 provinces before your opponent can do whatever it is theyíre doing. Doing this is a strong play. It requires and showcases a level of drawing and buying that separates a good player from a great one.

Why is fortress so good for this? Why wouldnít you just buy a silver? You canít buy provinces without coins, and getting 5 of them requires 40(!!) coins at minimum. You get money by drawing cards, and drawing cards can be a pain.

Letís do some math on how your first two turns break down WITHOUT the powerhouse opener of Fortress-Fortress (Fortress-Silver if you miss the shuffle):


As you can see, Silver Smithee looks like it comes out ahead most of the time, but thatís a logical fallacy.
You see, Smithey, despite being able to draw silver copper gold, could draw things dead, like estates and Semithys you canít play now.

Thatís where fortress comes in. You need 8 money, but you start out with all these cards that only give you a $1. How do you turn five of those into $8 (much less $40)?
Easy. You need more of them. Obviously, youíre grabbing an extra copper with your markets whenever you havenít spent all your money on Silvers and Fortresses, which helps with your money density, but it doesnít change the fact that you have only start out with 5 cards of the 8 you need.
You play a Fortress from your hand and it draws you a card. Youíve now seen 6 of the 8 cards you need. Thatís where the Smitehy tree stops dead in its tracks and its why we skip that card whenever we can get Fortress instead.
The Fortress pile, however, synergizes with itself in ways weíre still trying to understand here in the top tables of the dominion community. After all, this is a game of resource management. Your cards are resources. Your money is a resource and your actions are the most important resource (with points coming in as a close second).

Smithyíse problem is that it consumes the resources it needs, actions. Marketís issue here isnít that it consumes resources, but it doesnít create the resources you need to play more of them. It says plus action on it, but a good Dominion player is tracking how many actions he plays per turn versus his available pool and realizes heís not actually profiting when he draws and plays a fortress. If youíre not making actions, youíre losing actions.
Obviously, Fortress creates value in this situation by not only refusing to consume actions, but adding them to your pool.

We have this theory from Dominion called opportunity cost (which is way too complicated to go into here so just google it or something), which states that any time you buy a  Market, it could have been a Fortress. So every time you play that action, itís like you lose an action you could have had.

Now that weíve established that, letís come back to how a Fortress big money deck wins the game (and it does).
Smiethy showed us some cards but didnít quite get us to Province. Fortress, on the other hand doesnít have that hard cap of how many you can play.
Playing 3 or 4 of them means that youíve seen more than enough of your deck to buy a province, and possibly enough to grab an extra duchy or silver too!

Letís do some math on Fortress:
 

The other strength of Fortress is that cards like Swingler, Knights and Rogue actually INCREASE the number of Fortresses in your deck, making it possible to own the entire Fortress pile by turn 4 or five if you plan correctly.

Now getting into exactly who wins the game based on how the Fortress split goes is well beyond the scope of this article, but hopefully now you understand the strategy and how it applies to games of Dominion for epic comebacks.

Check out the episode in question below and happy holidays, everyone!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmXmjOxKMTg
« Last Edit: April 05, 2018, 03:55:50 pm by Screwyioux »
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faust

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Re: Fortress Big Money
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2018, 11:36:23 am »
+13

Aren't you a day late?
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

terminalCopper

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Re: Fortress Big Money
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2018, 12:01:59 pm »
0

The other strength of Fortress is that cards like Swingler, Knights and Rogue actually INCREASE the number of Fortresses
Begging for a meme.
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jonts26

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Re: Fortress Big Money
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2018, 12:02:59 pm »
+1

Aren't you a day late?

And a dollar short of the double fortress open.
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jonaskoelker

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Re: Fortress Big Money
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2018, 04:08:50 pm »
+1

I was a little skeptical first, but then I looked at the Nakagami density function and that persuaded me to give Fortress/BM a try. I think it most closely captures the development of your money density.

How does Fortress/BM compare to big money with Coin of the Realm?
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Dingan

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Re: Fortress Big Money
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2018, 04:58:52 pm »
+1

The fact that that youtube link wasn't to Rick Astley had me skeptical at first
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Aleimon Thimble

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Re: Fortress Big Money
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2018, 05:27:24 am »
+3

The fact that that youtube link wasn't to Rick Astley had me skeptical at first

The fact that you said the link wasn't to Rick Astley made me think that it was, but then it wasn't. Pretty nice double-reverse psychology.
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[...] The God of heaven has given you Dominion [...] (Daniel 2:37)

Awaclus

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Re: Fortress Big Money
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2018, 05:29:21 am »
+4

This YouTube link is to Rick Astley: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?board=50.0
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Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's albums for free

Screwyioux

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Re: Fortress Big Money
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2018, 08:56:34 am »
+4

I was a little skeptical first, but then I looked at the Nakagami density function and that persuaded me to give Fortress/BM a try. I think it most closely captures the development of your money density.

How does Fortress/BM compare to big money with Coin of the Realm?


Exactly! And that's a good thought. Big Money CoTR is widely accepted to be the close-second counterpart to BM Fortress, so I decided to run the numbers through my bot and I think the results speak for themselves:
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Screwyioux

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Re: Fortress Big Money
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2018, 08:57:38 am »
+3

This YouTube link is to Rick Astley: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?board=50.0


One of the great tragedies of our generation is how Youtube's preroll ads have ruined the comedic timing of such a cherished meme.
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Awaclus

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Re: Fortress Big Money
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2018, 09:01:53 am »
+3

This YouTube link is to Rick Astley: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?board=50.0


One of the great tragedies of our generation is how Youtube's preroll ads have ruined the comedic timing of such a cherished meme.

One of the great comedies of our generation is how you can block the ads with a browser extension. (or if you're on Opera, you don't even need an extension)
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Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's albums for free

Aleimon Thimble

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Re: Fortress Big Money
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2018, 09:37:53 am »
0

This YouTube link is to Rick Astley: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?board=50.0


One of the great tragedies of our generation is how Youtube's preroll ads have ruined the comedic timing of such a cherished meme.

One of the great comedies of our generation is how you can block the ads with a browser extension. (or if you're on Opera, you don't even need an extension)

There are forums where admitting that you have an ad blocker gets you banned. I take it this is not one of those forums?

(Not that I have one)
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[...] The God of heaven has given you Dominion [...] (Daniel 2:37)

jonts26

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Re: Fortress Big Money
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2018, 09:40:26 am »
+6

This YouTube link is to Rick Astley: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?board=50.0


One of the great tragedies of our generation is how Youtube's preroll ads have ruined the comedic timing of such a cherished meme.

One of the great comedies of our generation is how you can block the ads with a browser extension. (or if you're on Opera, you don't even need an extension)

There are forums where admitting that you have an ad blocker gets you banned. I take it this is not one of those forums?

(Not that I have one)

We ban you for not having an ad blocker. I'll have to report you.
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jonaskoelker

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Re: Fortress Big Money
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2018, 12:03:59 pm »
+2

I decided to run the numbers through my bot and I think the results speak for themselves: [...]
This is spiraling out of control :o
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Fuu

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Re: Fortress Big Money
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2018, 02:39:45 pm »
+3

Fortress / big money is insane with Goat.
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