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Author Topic: You may turn your journey token over...  (Read 1244 times)

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LibraryAdventurer

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You may turn your journey token over...
« on: March 24, 2018, 10:28:24 pm »
+1

I recently made a fan card which uses the journey token, and I was thinking what kind of design space there is using the journey token. This is mostly an experiment to think what a card would be like that said "You may turn your journey token over." What do you think?

Quote
Veteran
$5 - Action
You may turn over your journey token (it starts face-up). If it's face up, +3 cards. Otherwise, +$1, +1 Buy, and discard any number of cards for +$1 each.

Commodore Chuckles

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Re: You may turn your journey token over...
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2018, 11:47:32 pm »
+4

Two-Face
$5 - Action - Attack - Rogues Gallery
$2
Flip the Journey Token in the air. If it lands face down, each other player gains a Curse, a Ruin and a Copper and discards down to 3.
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Aquila

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Re: You may turn your journey token over...
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2018, 02:58:33 am »
+1

I recently made a fan card which uses the journey token, and I was thinking what kind of design space there is using the journey token. This is mostly an experiment to think what a card would be like that said "You may turn your journey token over." What do you think?

Quote
Veteran
$5 - Action
You may turn over your journey token (it starts face-up). If it's face up, +3 cards. Otherwise, +$1, +1 Buy, and discard any number of cards for +$1 each.


Isn't this just 'choose one' with more words? So if you wanted to feature the journey token I guess you'd add some other kind of condition that turns the journey token over, rather than the player's choice.
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Holunder9

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Re: You may turn your journey token over...
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2018, 03:10:31 am »
+1

I recently made a fan card which uses the journey token, and I was thinking what kind of design space there is using the journey token. This is mostly an experiment to think what a card would be like that said "You may turn your journey token over." What do you think?

Quote
Veteran
$5 - Action
You may turn over your journey token (it starts face-up). If it's face up, +3 cards. Otherwise, +$1, +1 Buy, and discard any number of cards for +$1 each.
I don't like the use of the Journey token on this. Note that official cards that use the Journey token alternate between a weak and a strong play effect. I don't think that play effects of nearly similar strength work well with the Journey token, especially not as the Secret Chamber / Horse Trader discard for benefit thing is something which you only want under certain circumstances. It is as if Steward would alternate between trashing and drawing 2 cards.

So what Aquila suggested, buffing the card via allowing you to always choose, seems better.
Or just use the scalable Horse Trader without the Smithy option and perhaps some other extra.
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Asper

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Re: You may turn your journey token over...
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2018, 05:51:29 am »
+1

How about:

Architect, 5$, Action
If this is the first time you play an Architect this turn, you may turn over your Journey Token (it starts face up).
If your Journey Token is face up: +3 Cards
Otherwise: +1 Card, +2 Actions

LibraryAdventurer

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Re: You may turn your journey token over...
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2018, 03:36:26 pm »
0

oops. Yeah, it's basically a choose one with more words.  :P I was thinking too much of the possible interaction with other journey token cards. This is why I often bounce random ideas off the community before I take them seriously...

Maybe to do something with this idea, it'd work better like this:
Quote
Veteran
$5 - Action
If you have at least eight (nine?) cards in hand: +$2, +1 Buy, and discard any number of cards for +$1 each.
Otherwise, +3 cards.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2018, 03:42:32 pm by LibraryAdventurer »
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Neirai the Forgiven

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Re: You may turn your journey token over...
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2018, 10:38:42 am »
+1

Okay, here's a fun but bad idea....

What if you could only turn your Journey token face down using this card? It starts face up, so this would be a card that's reliant on other cards, but without other journey cards, it's a one time choice.
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Asper

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Re: You may turn your journey token over...
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2018, 10:55:27 am »
+3

If your Journey Token is face up (it starts face up): X
Otherwise: Y
---
When you discard this from play, you may turn your Journey Token over.

Violet CLM

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Re: You may turn your journey token over...
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2018, 11:20:08 am »
+1

You may turn your Journey Token over (it starts face-up), to X.
If your Journey Token is face-up, Y. Otherwise, Z.
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Simon Jester

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Re: You may turn your journey token over...
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2018, 11:41:22 am »
+1

Okay, here's a fun but bad idea....

What if you could only turn your Journey token face down using this card? It starts face up, so this would be a card that's reliant on other cards, but without other journey cards, it's a one time choice.

Maybe as a Heirloom attached to a rather awkward Jorney token-card? The Heirloom effect can be really good but forces you to buy a Fool-level card to be able to use it more than once..

As soon a "real" Jorney-card is in the kingdom it would become much better, but I think it's okey for an effect that is as fun as it's strong 

faust

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Re: You may turn your journey token over...
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2018, 12:07:58 pm »
0

You may turn your journey token over (it starts face up).

If it's face down, X

When you gain this, if your journey token is face down, return it to the supply.
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Awaclus

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Re: You may turn your journey token over...
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2018, 12:24:37 pm »
+4

You may turn your journey token over (it starts face up).

If it's face down, X

When you gain this, if your journey token is face down, return it to the supply.

What does your journey token do when it's in the supply?
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Freddy10

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Re: You may turn your journey token over...
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2018, 12:15:47 pm »
+1

I think he means the card, not the journey token, he should put "this" instead of "it" under the line.

Another idea could be flipping the token at the end:

Quote
Veteran
$5 - Action
If your journey token is face up, +3 cards. Otherwise, +$1, +1 Buy, and discard any number of cards for +$1 each.
You may turn over your journey token (it starts face-up).
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GendoIkari

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Re: You may turn your journey token over...
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2018, 12:26:12 pm »
+6

I think he means the card, not the journey token, he should put "this" instead of "it" under the line.


Welcome to the site. Meet Awaclus.
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Fuu

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Re: You may turn your journey token over...
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2018, 01:43:36 pm »
+3

I think he means the card, not the journey token, he should put "this" instead of "it" under the line.


Welcome to the site. Meet Awaclus.

If you do, return your journey token to the supply.
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somekindoftony

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Re: You may turn your journey token over...
« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2018, 11:35:18 am »
0

Simple but playable I think. Maybe too strong at $2.

$2 Blinking Castle


Turn your journey token over (it starts face up).
Then if it's face up, +$1, +1 Buy,+2 cards and +2 Actions.


(Edited to put everything contingent on the journey token being face up. It is after all supposed to be a Castle blinking in and out of existence.) Still might be too strong at $2.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2018, 11:39:45 am by somekindoftony »
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: You may turn your journey token over...
« Reply #17 on: April 07, 2018, 07:31:48 pm »
0

Blinking Castle might be okay at $4, but don't like it when cards do absolutely nothing every other play.

...since you bumped the thread, I had another look at my Veteran, and had a new idea for it.

Quote
Veteran
$5 - Action
+3 Cards.
Turn over your journey token (it starts face-up). If it's face up and you haven't gained a province this turn, gain a victory card costing up to $2 per Veteran you have in play. If it's face down, additional +1 Card.
-
Heirloom: Gilded Sword
Could be used to gain a province, but it also can junk you with estates.

Quote
Gilded Sword
$4 - Treasure - Heirloom
+1 Buy. If your journey token is face up when you play this, discard up to 3 victory cards for +$1 each.
You may turn your journey token over.
Thought it would be fun to have a journey token heirloom, and it makes the "You may" part work.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2018, 07:36:40 pm by LibraryAdventurer »
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Holunder9

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Re: You may turn your journey token over...
« Reply #18 on: April 08, 2018, 07:33:07 am »
0

Simple but playable I think. Maybe too strong at $2.

$2 Blinking Castle


Turn your journey token over (it starts face up).
Then if it's face up, +$1, +1 Buy,+2 cards and +2 Actions.


(Edited to put everything contingent on the journey token being face up. It is after all supposed to be a Castle blinking in and out of existence.) Still might be too strong at $2.
Blinking Castle is on average a Market so definitely too cheap for $2.
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jonaskoelker

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Re: You may turn your journey token over...
« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2018, 05:24:39 pm »
0

$2 Blinking Castle
Turn your journey token over (it starts face up).
Then if it's face up, +$1, +1 Buy,+2 cards and +2 Actions.
Blinking Castle is on average a Market so definitely too cheap for $2.
By my math, each pair of Blinking Castles cost you 2 actions to play and 2 cards to draw and gives you back those 2 actions and cards, so each pair nets you +$1 and +1 buy. Each pair, not copy, has the same net benefit as one Market.

It interacts really nicely—i.e. powerfully—with Pilgrimage especially, and also Giant to some extent: $0 for $2 or $1 for $5, eh, I probably take the $0 for $2.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: You may turn your journey token over...
« Reply #20 on: April 09, 2018, 12:49:14 am »
0

I’m creating my own fan based dominion expansion. It’s called the snow line expansion. I have about a 5 to 7 cards that use the journey token.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: You may turn your journey token over...
« Reply #21 on: April 09, 2018, 12:54:15 am »
0

Freezing forest, hunters camp, yeti and cliff. Just to name a few that will work with the journey token.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: You may turn your journey token over...
« Reply #22 on: April 09, 2018, 01:01:15 am »
0

Yeti
+1 card
Flip the journey token over
If it’s face up +2 cards +2💵 and
Everyone else must discard their
Hands and draw 4 cards
Cost 5 Action-Attack

Hunters camp
+2 Actions
Flip the journey token over
If it’s face up +2 cards +1 buy
Cost 5 Action
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Holunder9

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Re: You may turn your journey token over...
« Reply #23 on: April 09, 2018, 02:59:03 am »
+1

$2 Blinking Castle
Turn your journey token over (it starts face up).
Then if it's face up, +$1, +1 Buy,+2 cards and +2 Actions.
Blinking Castle is on average a Market so definitely too cheap for $2.
By my math, each pair of Blinking Castles cost you 2 actions to play and 2 cards to draw and gives you back those 2 actions and cards, so each pair nets you +$1 and +1 buy. Each pair, not copy, has the same net benefit as one Market.
What a blunder by me, you are of course totally right.
Now the question is whether a half-Market is balanced at $2 or $3. I'd tend towards $3 but I am not sure.
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somekindoftony

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Re: You may turn your journey token over...
« Reply #24 on: April 09, 2018, 04:16:43 am »
0

Something else to think about is that it's generally better to have one big turn than two middle sized turns. That's why cards like Giant or Ranger are better than their averages.
I'm not sure how well that applies to something like Blinking Castle but it would seem to.
It would depend on a lot of random factors but generally trading one dead turn for a great one is a win. Honestly it feels like Blinking Castle is one of those cards that sit somewhere between 2 and 3. A little too costly at 3, a little too cheap at 2. And if you were playing against Knight or Rogues or other cards that affect your 3-6 cost cards it would be an even better pick at 2.
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Holunder9

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Re: You may turn your journey token over...
« Reply #25 on: April 09, 2018, 03:08:21 pm »
0

Something else to think about is that it's generally better to have one big turn than two middle sized turns. That's why cards like Giant or Ranger are better than their averages.
In the case of a payload card like Giant I agree as you can use it to get Provinces.
In the case of a terminal draw card like Ranger I disagree; in a deck-drawing engine you want 1 or 2 pairs of Rangers and it wouldn't matter if Ranger alternated between drawing 2 and 3 cards instead of 0 and 5 instead. The former can be even better as it makes your engine more consistent.
Half-Market is probably somewhere between those two cases.
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Gazbag

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Re: You may turn your journey token over...
« Reply #26 on: April 09, 2018, 04:47:28 pm »
0

Something else to think about is that it's generally better to have one big turn than two middle sized turns. That's why cards like Giant or Ranger are better than their averages.
In the case of a payload card like Giant I agree as you can use it to get Provinces.
In the case of a terminal draw card like Ranger I disagree; in a deck-drawing engine you want 1 or 2 pairs of Rangers and it wouldn't matter if Ranger alternated between drawing 2 and 3 cards instead of 0 and 5 instead. The former can be even better as it makes your engine more consistent.
Half-Market is probably somewhere between those two cases.

Front loading all of the draw to the first Ranger is great for consistency. It's similar to start of the turn duration draw like that. You draw the name number of cards but don't need to find the 2nd Ranger within the first 3 and it works really nicely alongside other draw cards too because you can wait until the end of the tun to play the 2nd Ranger so you don't need to find as many villages at the start.

I'd price blinking castle at $3 to begin with, I think it'd be quite strong there so maybe it'd be better at $4. $2 is definitely too low though because this gives +buy so that'd make them too easy to pick up. Something that is kind of lost talking about the net market effect of this is that if you have an alternating pair of these you can set this up to give +2 Actions on the first play, so you're getting a "phantom" village you can use to play your draw during the turn.
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Holunder9

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Re: You may turn your journey token over...
« Reply #27 on: April 11, 2018, 03:28:53 am »
0

Something else to think about is that it's generally better to have one big turn than two middle sized turns. That's why cards like Giant or Ranger are better than their averages.
In the case of a payload card like Giant I agree as you can use it to get Provinces.
In the case of a terminal draw card like Ranger I disagree; in a deck-drawing engine you want 1 or 2 pairs of Rangers and it wouldn't matter if Ranger alternated between drawing 2 and 3 cards instead of 0 and 5 instead. The former can be even better as it makes your engine more consistent.
Half-Market is probably somewhere between those two cases.

Front loading all of the draw to the first Ranger is great for consistency.
Sure but Ranger is not a card you want to use as mini Tactician, you want to play them in pairs and have an even number of them in your deck. Also, Ranger takes time to kick off as the first one is dead. If tempo/sifting matters a lot, e.g. in a Travellers game, a plain Smithy might be better (admittedly it probably isn't because of Ranger's extra Buy).


I'd price blinking castle at $3 to begin with, I think it'd be quite strong there so maybe it'd be better at $4.
$4 is too much. It is not like Market is a powerhouse $5. Just imagine that there are other Peddler variants in the Kingdom. You wouldn't really want to pay $4 for a half-Peddler with a half-Buy on top of it (unless you need the Buy but that applies generally for +Buy card; Herbalist isn't good just because you sometimes need to get it).
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Re: You may turn your journey token over...
« Reply #28 on: April 11, 2018, 09:31:06 am »
0

$2 Blinking Castle
Turn your journey token over (it starts face up).
Then if it's face up, +$1, +1 Buy,+2 cards and +2 Actions.
Blinking Castle is on average a Market so definitely too cheap for $2.
By my math, each pair of Blinking Castles cost you 2 actions to play and 2 cards to draw and gives you back those 2 actions and cards, so each pair nets you +$1 and +1 buy. Each pair, not copy, has the same net benefit as one Market.
What a blunder by me, you are of course totally right.
Now the question is whether a half-Market is balanced at $2 or $3. I'd tend towards $3 but I am not sure.

Pawn is a half-Market, and it's sold for $2!  ;D
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Asper

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Re: You may turn your journey token over...
« Reply #29 on: April 11, 2018, 12:51:40 pm »
0

$2 Blinking Castle
Turn your journey token over (it starts face up).
Then if it's face up, +$1, +1 Buy,+2 cards and +2 Actions.
Blinking Castle is on average a Market so definitely too cheap for $2.
By my math, each pair of Blinking Castles cost you 2 actions to play and 2 cards to draw and gives you back those 2 actions and cards, so each pair nets you +$1 and +1 buy. Each pair, not copy, has the same net benefit as one Market.
What a blunder by me, you are of course totally right.
Now the question is whether a half-Market is balanced at $2 or $3. I'd tend towards $3 but I am not sure.

Pawn is a half-Market, and it's sold for $2!  ;D

Two Pawns are less than one Market, though. They would both have to be cantrips and give a bonus on top of that to do what Market does. I assume you're being funny, but the Pawn comparison isn't that bad, actually. It certainly looks more like a 3$ to me.

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Re: You may turn your journey token over...
« Reply #30 on: April 13, 2018, 03:20:31 am »
0

$2 Blinking Castle
Turn your journey token over (it starts face up).
Then if it's face up, +$1, +1 Buy,+2 cards and +2 Actions.
Blinking Castle is on average a Market so definitely too cheap for $2.
By my math, each pair of Blinking Castles cost you 2 actions to play and 2 cards to draw and gives you back those 2 actions and cards, so each pair nets you +$1 and +1 buy. Each pair, not copy, has the same net benefit as one Market.
What a blunder by me, you are of course totally right.
Now the question is whether a half-Market is balanced at $2 or $3. I'd tend towards $3 but I am not sure.

Pawn is a half-Market, and it's sold for $2!  ;D

Two Pawns are less than one Market, though. They would both have to be cantrips and give a bonus on top of that to do what Market does. I assume you're being funny, but the Pawn comparison isn't that bad, actually. It certainly looks more like a 3$ to me.
Yeah, compared to all the $2 cantrips with a little bonus half-Market looks too good. Even the stronger ones like Patrician that are more often than not a Lab in a set-up engine suck in the opening whereas the Blinking Castle is always OKish.
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faust

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Re: You may turn your journey token over...
« Reply #31 on: April 13, 2018, 03:24:18 am »
0

$2 Blinking Castle
Turn your journey token over (it starts face up).
Then if it's face up, +$1, +1 Buy,+2 cards and +2 Actions.
Blinking Castle is on average a Market so definitely too cheap for $2.
By my math, each pair of Blinking Castles cost you 2 actions to play and 2 cards to draw and gives you back those 2 actions and cards, so each pair nets you +$1 and +1 buy. Each pair, not copy, has the same net benefit as one Market.
What a blunder by me, you are of course totally right.
Now the question is whether a half-Market is balanced at $2 or $3. I'd tend towards $3 but I am not sure.

Pawn is a half-Market, and it's sold for $2!  ;D

Two Pawns are less than one Market, though. They would both have to be cantrips and give a bonus on top of that to do what Market does. I assume you're being funny, but the Pawn comparison isn't that bad, actually. It certainly looks more like a 3$ to me.
I mean Caravan Guard is essentially a half-Peddler (minus the reaction) at $3. Half-Market is better, but missing the reaction... so probably fine.
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