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Author Topic: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!  (Read 3874 times)

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LastFootnote

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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2018, 08:45:32 pm »
+1

How does the bane card work? Is it larger than a card, so that the pile sits on it, and you can see the word ďbaneĒ on each side?
No, you just turn it sideways and put it under the pile, and "Bane" sticks out on both sides.

Iím pretty sure that was my idea (itís what I do with the Young Witch randomizer now), but Iím like 0 for 2 on remembering stuff today.
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crj

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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2018, 09:15:19 pm »
0

Or you align it the same direction as the pile and leave it sticking out the top. Which I suspect would work better with the kind of card layouts we seem to adopt.
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werothegreat

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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #27 on: March 21, 2018, 12:01:41 am »
+15

Now I need to update the wiki...
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jonaskoelker

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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #28 on: March 21, 2018, 01:17:03 am »
+13

Now I need to update the wiki...

Contrary to popular belief, I [...] run the wiki all on my own.
:P

Seriously though, have a good time doing so. Your work on the wiki is greatly appreciated, and I think I speak for more than just myself when I say this.
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majiponi

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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #29 on: March 22, 2018, 09:28:15 am »
+3

So, I "get" a coin token when I play a Baker while I am possessed, right? Rule changed AGAIN?
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weesh

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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #30 on: March 22, 2018, 10:37:46 am »
+1

this change doesn't affect me at all.  I only play with my own 1st edition set.  Unless...
Is there any more design space for coffers/coins?  Like enough for it to be used again in a future set?

It's one of the blandest mechanics in the game, but it plays absurdly well.  There are not that many mechanics in the game where you think "i want that 4$ more than that 3$" and end up buying the 3$ anyways.  coffers in a game mean there are more meaningful and interesting decisions.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #31 on: March 22, 2018, 11:50:07 am »
0

Coffers seems like.. perfectly correct for this.
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markusin

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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #32 on: March 22, 2018, 11:56:28 am »
+1

So, I "get" a coin token when I play a Baker while I am possessed, right? Rule changed AGAIN?

I believe so, yes.
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Kirian

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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #33 on: March 22, 2018, 01:22:11 pm »
+9

This is the first time I'd noticed that Donald made jokes about nose-stealing in two separate expansion descriptions.  It seems fitting they'd end up in the same box.

I like the name Coffer(s) for the token mat, but I don't like +1 Coffers on the card.  Possibly I don't like the double-plural?  If Baker gives me +1 Coffers, Butcher should give +2 Cofferses.  Cofferss?  Covfefes?
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markusin

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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #34 on: March 22, 2018, 01:27:11 pm »
0

This is the first time I'd noticed that Donald made jokes about nose-stealing in two separate expansion descriptions.  It seems fitting they'd end up in the same box.

I like the name Coffer(s) for the token mat, but I don't like +1 Coffers on the card.  Possibly I don't like the double-plural?  If Baker gives me +1 Coffers, Butcher should give +2 Cofferses.  Cofferss?  Covfefes?

The "Coffers" are not the coin tokens. So, it's more like the coffers gain +2 in my head, or "+1 (to the) Coffers".
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crj

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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #35 on: March 22, 2018, 01:30:49 pm »
+5

For me, "+1 to Coffers", or maybe even "+ to Coffers" would have been fine. "+1 Coffers" is icky.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #36 on: March 22, 2018, 01:48:25 pm »
+8

For me, "+1 to Coffers", or maybe even "+ to Coffers" would have been fine. "+1 Coffers" is icky.

From my point of view, the Jedi are evil!
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Kirian

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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #37 on: March 22, 2018, 06:46:32 pm »
0

For me, "+1 to Coffers", or maybe even "+ to Coffers" would have been fine. "+1 Coffers" is icky.

From my point of view, the Jedi are evil!

Well, I mean, on many levels...
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Chase Adolphson

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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #38 on: March 22, 2018, 07:23:19 pm »
+1

A few comments and photos...

I like the coffers mat. But I like mats in general. Maybe that's because we play on a rug with a lot of texture, and it would be easy to lose coin or victory tokens otherwise. I'd use a debt mat if there was one. If I was playing at a table, I might not use mats at all. But I have kids. They like playing on the floor.

The coin tokens are shiny, so camouflage hasn't been a problem for us:


As for the word "coffers," maybe it's awkward but my five-year-old (who can barely read but has every card from every expansion memorized based on the artwork) loves it. He instituted the house rule "when you get a coffers, cough". Play butcher; cough twice.

Here's the bane card, which I didn't realize was new since I've never seen the original Guilds & Cornucopia (except on Shuffle iT):


Cover of the new rule book:


Contents:



Your five year old plays dominion?!?!?!?!?!?!?! Wow he's smart!
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werothegreat

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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #39 on: March 22, 2018, 11:34:58 pm »
0

So, I "get" a coin token when I play a Baker while I am possessed, right? Rule changed AGAIN?

Not "again".  This is consistent with the second edition wording of Possession that also tells you to gain all tokens the Possessed player would gain.
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Ghacob

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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #40 on: March 23, 2018, 12:38:48 am »
+4

So, I "get" a coin token when I play a Baker while I am possessed, right? Rule changed AGAIN?

Not "again".  This is consistent with the second edition wording of Possession that also tells you to gain all tokens the Possessed player would gain.

Nay, as of now, it is the Posessee, not the Possessor who gains the coin tokens, or any non-debt token for that matter.
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Jeebus

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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #41 on: March 23, 2018, 12:58:07 am »
0

Apart from the "Coffers" thing, are there other changes to the card texts compared to the 2nd edition versions we have seen before (which has been online)?

I see that the rulebook is still not online: http://riograndegames.com/Game/1293-Dominion-Cornucopia-amp-Guilds

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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #42 on: March 23, 2018, 01:27:20 am »
+1

I always thought they should of had a token for young witches bane. A bane token. About a year ago I had to throw out my young witch cards and a few others from dominion. Because my step father made me. But I didnít want to lose the mechanics of some of my favorite cards. So I used the blank cards to replace them with cards that didnít bother him. So I replaced young witch with crocodile. And what are crocodiles afraid of. Hippos! So I found an eraser with the picture of hippo on it. Most of my friends donít care either way about young witch. But they definitely loved the hippo token for the game. It made the game easier thatís for sure. Also are they ever going to do a seaside 2nd edition. Lookout, and Seahag have no real benefit. And lookout can destroy your deck at the end of the game. One time I drew 2 duchies and province with lookout and it was online when it happened.talk about bad luck! And cutpurse is a pretty weak attack card too. And thereís not many ways to trash cards in seaside. If you want a card to trash cards salvager is the only really good one. Navigator and explorer are disappointing too. And pearl diver isnít much better than those. So thereís at least 5 cards they should replace or least tweak a little. Lookout should let you draw a card also, seahag should at least give you a couple of treasure, cutpurse should make them discard a treasure instead of a copper. For a hand when they only have silvers and golds. Navigator should let you choose (like cartographer). Explorer should cost 4 instead of 5. Cause itís always the last card you would buy for 5 money. And pearl diver should let you draw that card after you look at the bottom at least. No one seems to buy pearl diver at least not right away, when native village, lighthouse and embargo are in the game. Even haven is bought more often.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #43 on: March 23, 2018, 01:36:09 am »
+2

So, I "get" a coin token when I play a Baker while I am possessed, right? Rule changed AGAIN?

Not "again".  This is consistent with the second edition wording of Possession that also tells you to gain all tokens the Possessed player would gain.

You have this backwards. He was asking about playing Baker while he was possessed; not about forcing someone to play Baker while Possessing them. And indeed, the rule is changing again; it is now back to the original printed first edition Possession, for everything except .
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #44 on: March 23, 2018, 07:55:49 am »
+4

I always thought they should of had a token for young witches bane. A bane token. About a year ago I had to throw out my young witch cards and a few others from dominion. Because my step father made me. But I didnít want to lose the mechanics of some of my favorite cards. So I used the blank cards to replace them with cards that didnít bother him. So I replaced young witch with crocodile. And what are crocodiles afraid of. Hippos! So I found an eraser with the picture of hippo on it. Most of my friends donít care either way about young witch. But they definitely loved the hippo token for the game. It made the game easier thatís for sure. Also are they ever going to do a seaside 2nd edition. Lookout, and Seahag have no real benefit. And lookout can destroy your deck at the end of the game. One time I drew 2 duchies and province with lookout and it was online when it happened.talk about bad luck! And cutpurse is a pretty weak attack card too. And thereís not many ways to trash cards in seaside. If you want a card to trash cards salvager is the only really good one. Navigator and explorer are disappointing too. And pearl diver isnít much better than those. So thereís at least 5 cards they should replace or least tweak a little. Lookout should let you draw a card also, seahag should at least give you a couple of treasure, cutpurse should make them discard a treasure instead of a copper. For a hand when they only have silvers and golds. Navigator should let you choose (like cartographer). Explorer should cost 4 instead of 5. Cause itís always the last card you would buy for 5 money. And pearl diver should let you draw that card after you look at the bottom at least. No one seems to buy pearl diver at least not right away, when native village, lighthouse and embargo are in the game. Even haven is bought more often.

First off I'm sorry to hear about Young Witch. I also grew up in a fairly religious-fundamentalist kind of situation, and have horrible memories of the implications of constantly-changing and arbitrary decisions regarding what books, TV shows, films, and games I was allowed. Rabbits shooting Turtles = fine, but Robots kicking Robots = evil - Harry Potter being fine up until the release of Order of the Phoenix and then having to literally burn the previous four books - etc etc etc. It's shit.

But mainly I wanted to reply to you about Seaside. Seaside has actually got a 2nd edition, but the changes are pretty minor, and mostly cosmetic. Outpost is slightly different but I think that's the only gameplay change (and the change only matters in very few situations). Seaside is one of my favourite expansions, if not outright my favourite, and I feel the need to defend a couple of cards from your ire and encourage you to experiment with them more. You're right that Navigator and Explorer are generally weak. They're both cards that are strong in money-based decks, and those are generally the weaker choice compared with engine decks unless the engine available is very poor. They both combo well with Hunting Party, and Navigator can occasionally be useful in a Duke strategy maybe, but that's about it. But hey, some cards are more limited in their use than others. I've certainly used both of these cards well in the past, it's just not common. Pearl Diver is also obviously weak, but it's a $2 cantrip, so it' can't be that strong or any board with +buy will see it massively rushed. Cutpurse is odd - it's overpowered in 4P and mostly underpowered in 2P, but it's not awful. But as for Lookout and Sea Hag, I think you're really missing something, as these two cards are very strong. Sea Hag used to be considered one of the premium $4 cards in the game. It has become less powerful as later sets have given more and more ways to deal with curses, but in plenty of boards it is still an absolute must-buy. Lookout is even more impressive relative to price, in my opinion. If you look at the Qvist card rankings, Lookout is always right up there among the absolute best $3 cards such as Masquarade, Ambassador, and Steward. I rank it even higher than the community in general. It's just a fiddly card to play with and you absolutely should not be using it in the late-game, as you point out. But what use are most trashers in the late-game? Lookout has the very rare quality of being a powerful deck-thinner and giving decent odds of a T3/4 $5 buy (this is because it is a sifter/cycler as well as a trasher - that discard is almost as important as the trash). Often you have to weigh up the benefits of upping your odds of being able to get a powerful $5 early vs being able to thin down your deck (unless you open 5/2, when naturally lookout is not really going to be attractive anyway). If that power 5 is either a junker such as Mountebank or Witch, or a power trasher like Sentry, Junk Dealer, or Upgrade, then the deal is even sweeter. But even if it's just a regulation power 5, Lookout is a supreme opening buy and I'd often even take it over Chapel. I think the only reason people hate lookout so much is that they just can't seem to stop themselves playing it long into the mid-game or even late-game, and then it's obviously horrible. Just treat it like a late-game Chapel - as a dead card. If you can get rid of it, so much the better, but if you can't, then one dead card is better than ten! Keep on buying lookout - just restrain yourself from playing it late-game. Once you've opened Lookout/Militia or even Lookout/Cutpurse or Lookout/Navigator a few times and been able to thin by one card and buy a Mountebank by the T5 shuffle once or twice, you'll probably be more amenable to it.
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ipofanes

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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #45 on: March 23, 2018, 08:05:44 am »
0

First off I'm sorry to hear about Young Witch. I also grew up in a fairly religious-fundamentalist kind of situation, and have horrible memories of the implications of constantly-changing and arbitrary decisions regarding what books, TV shows, films, and games I was allowed. Rabbits shooting Turtles = fine, but Robots kicking Robots = evil - Harry Potter being fine up until the release of Order of the Phoenix and then having to literally burn the previous four books - etc etc etc. It's shit.

While I cannot empathise in the same way because I have not been subjected to that kind of environment, I must admit that the creative circumvention brought a smile to my face. To me, it sounds like the curses Hergť came up with for Cptn. Haddock since most of the more regular curses were off limits in the Christian youth magazine he published in.
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #46 on: March 23, 2018, 08:10:42 am »
0

Yeah, Lookout is legitimately like a 85th percentile card.
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #47 on: March 23, 2018, 12:46:14 pm »
0

So, I "get" a coin token when I play a Baker while I am possessed, right? Rule changed AGAIN?

Not "again".  This is consistent with the second edition wording of Possession that also tells you to gain all tokens the Possessed player would gain.

You have this backwards. He was asking about playing Baker while he was possessed; not about forcing someone to play Baker while Possessing them. And indeed, the rule is changing again; it is now back to the original printed first edition Possession, for everything except .

Says who? Possession explicitly says you gain any tokens they would gain. "+Coffers" means gain a token. Which means if you are Possessed, and play Baker, the Possessor gets the token.
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #48 on: March 23, 2018, 12:52:31 pm »
+1

You have this backwards. He was asking about playing Baker while he was possessed; not about forcing someone to play Baker while Possessing them. And indeed, the rule is changing again; it is now back to the original printed first edition Possession, for everything except .

Not exactly, the Possessor also gets VP tokens, and (horribly) the -$1 token.

Here's the timeline, assuming that you would always play with the newest versions of everything:

* Possessor gets no tokens.

* Empires is released, with Possession errata in the rulebook. Possessor gets Debt tokens, Coin tokens and the -$1 token. Possessor doesn't get Pirate Ship tokens, based on the way Pirate Ship works as explained in the Seaside rulebook (later corrected in the 2nd edition card text).

* Prosperity 2nd edition is released, with changed rules about VP tokens. Possessor now gets VP tokens, Debt tokens, Coin tokens and the -$1 token.

* Guilds 2nd edition is released, with changed rules about Coin tokens. Possessor now gets VP tokens, Debt tokens and the -$1 token.

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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #49 on: March 23, 2018, 12:57:28 pm »
0

Says who? Possession explicitly says you gain any tokens they would gain. "+Coffers" means gain a token. Which means if you are Possessed, and play Baker, the Possessor gets the token.

Possession does say "gain", but according to Donald, the Possessor only gets tokens the player would take, and this doesn't include tokens the player would put on or add to mats. Therefore no Pirate Ship tokens and no player tokens from Adventures (except the -$1 token). And now, no Coin tokens. If this has been omitted from the wiki, I suggest it's added.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2018, 12:59:10 pm by Jeebus »
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