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Author Topic: Dominion Anthology/Fan edtion PLEASE  (Read 6005 times)

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Sparafucile

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Dominion Anthology/Fan edtion PLEASE
« on: March 17, 2018, 02:04:55 pm »
+1

Making a request for a dominion expansion in case Donald sees it :)

If there were another dominion expansion, I would really like to see Dominion: Anthology/Fan edition
No new mechanics introduced :)   Instead - reuse and revisit the existing ones in new combinations.

There's many awesome mechanics introduced in the expansions - but the dominion universe is so big, one often doesn't see them that frequently. 

Mechanics to revisit/expand would include:

Ruins, Cards that leverage Shelters (from Dark Ages)
Boons/Hexes, Night (from Noctune)
Reserve Cards (From Adventures)
Potion Cost (From Alchemy)
Over pay, Coin Tokens (from Guilds)
Debt, Gathering Piles, Split Piles (from Empires)
Cards that Require/encourage Platinum/Colony (from Prosperity)
When Gain/When Buy effects (from Hinterlands)

One could even mix and match.  Potion cost cards that hand out Boons!  Reserve cards that cost debt!   Cards that give out ruins and coin tokens.  Get creative :).

I dont think that the expansion would need to include all the necessary supporting pieces.  (another copy of Runes, Boons, etc etc).
Players would get to use the cards that match the expansions they already own - and then would be inspired to buy the missing expansions :)

Please upvote and include your ideas for what you might want included!
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Cuzz

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Re: Dominion Anthology/Fan edtion PLEASE
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2018, 02:13:59 pm »
+1

I dont think that the expansion would need to include all the necessary supporting pieces.  (another copy of Runes, Boons, etc etc).
Players would get to use the cards that match the expansions they already own - and then would be inspired to buy the missing expansions :)

I think this part is a non-starter. People won't want to buy an expansion with a bunch of cards they can't use.
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Donald X.

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Re: Dominion Anthology/Fan edtion PLEASE
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2018, 03:01:32 pm »
+7

If there were another dominion expansion, I would really like to see Dominion: Anthology/Fan edition
No new mechanics introduced :)   Instead - reuse and revisit the existing ones in new combinations.

I dont think that the expansion would need to include all the necessary supporting pieces.  (another copy of Runes, Boons, etc etc).
Players would get to use the cards that match the expansions they already own - and then would be inspired to buy the missing expansions :)
The expansion you are looking for is Adventures. I considered doing an expansion that revisited the mechanics from the previous sets, and concluded that the thing to do was just to do more Duration cards, in a new set that did whatever new stuff too. And there it is.

I do not imagine Jay will ever go for putting out an expansion that doesn't have stuff you need to play it (beyond of course the main set). I am not too interested in it either.
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Simon Jester

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Re: Dominion Anthology/Fan edtion PLEASE
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2018, 03:29:53 pm »
+1

Honestly. I would be utterly dissapointed with a new expansion from Donald that does not include some mechanics that is utterly bonkers compared to what we previously knew about Dominion. Why would you ask for that to be excluded? 
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crj

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Re: Dominion Anthology/Fan edtion PLEASE
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2018, 03:44:33 pm »
+1

This kind of request comes up a lot. Which suggests to me that a lot of people are really keen for it.

Now, admittedly, the people who are really keen for it are also the people who will probably buy any new expansion, even if they'd prefer a Treasure Chest expansion, so publishing other expansions may, indeed, make more sense. But some day, Donald may be stumped for an idea or, worse, will produce an expansion people perceive as lacklustre...

And actually, I've said this before: most old mechanics could be revisited successfully without requiring components from the old sets. Durations have already demonstrated this. As have Events.

Potions, Platinum and Colony are in the base cards set, so even people without Alchemy/Prosperity have them now.

Night and overpay require no special equipment.

More per-player tokens like the ones in Adventures could work independently of the existing ones.

New Looters and new Ruins could turn up together, so players with the new expansion had both, and players who also had Dark Ages could mix and match.

Beyond that, it wouldn't be too onerous to include six "tavern cards" in another expansion with Reserves, for people who didn't have Adventures. And I'd say it was acceptable to ask players without Guilds or Seaside to find their own coin tokens.

VP tokens... um... suddenly turned up again in Empires, in defiance of this reasoning! Maybe debt could turn up again some day, similarly?


I'm sure I'm not the only person who'd be more interested in seeing some cool combinations of existing mechanics over still more new ones.
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Marcory

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Re: Dominion Anthology/Fan edtion PLEASE
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2018, 03:55:51 pm »
0

But on the other hand, it's cool to see Donald do old tricks in new ways. Island--the VP that disappears from your deck once you play it--reappeared as Distant Lands in Adventures. Dominate is a new kind of Colony that uses only one of the 500 cards in a set instead of 12. Trade re-implements Trader in a new way. Knights was a much cooler reworking of Saboteur.

Pretty much anything that DXV could do in a Treasure Chest he could also do in a new expansion that 1) would have a coherent theme and 2) would likely sell much better.  Or he could do another standalone, like Hinterlands--an expansion whose cards are simple and unsexy but still hold their own quite well.

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crj

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Re: Dominion Anthology/Fan edtion PLEASE
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2018, 04:22:55 pm »
0

There can be a coherent theme alongside a return to old-favourite mechanics. For example, nobody seems to mind much that, while Empires is a theme running through the card names and artwork in that expansion, it's got basically nothing to do with the mechanics.
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Marcory

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Re: Dominion Anthology/Fan edtion PLEASE
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2018, 06:06:21 pm »
0

By 'theme' I meant less the Roman empire than the use of VP's, Debt, Landmarks, Events, and Gathering cards--the new mechanics introduced in Empires.

A 'Treasure chest' expansion--of, say, 25 Kingdom cards--would need to highlight some of the hallmarks of each of Dominion's 11 existing modules. That leaves about 2 Treasure Chest cards to represent each expansion.

It would be very hard to represent the key elements of all 11 expansions while simultaneously adhering to some of the main design requirements of a Dominion set. Remember that each set needs to contain several Villages, a Kingdom Victory card, a Kingdom Treasure, a Reaction, a Junking Attack, a trasher, and some +Buy, at a minimum, as well as a good range of card costs.

It would be extremely hard to design a set will all of these basic elements while simultaneously representing each of 11 Dominion expansions.

I think Donald's approach of creating new 'advanced' expansions that expand on previous 'basic' expansions is the approach that is likely to continue to be the most aesthetically and commercially successful.
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crj

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Re: Dominion Anthology/Fan edtion PLEASE
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2018, 08:09:52 pm »
0

A 'Treasure chest' expansion--of, say, 25 Kingdom cards--would need to highlight some of the hallmarks of each of Dominion's 11 existing modules. That leaves about 2 Treasure Chest cards to represent each expansion.
I'm not so interested in a couple more cards for each expansion. That's basically promo territory.

What really interests me is cards which combine those hallmarks. Debt-cost Reserve cards. Durations you can overpay for. Durations that give you coin tokens. All that good stuff. If most cards have characteristics of more than one previous expansion, there can be a lot more than two cards relating to each.
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Donald X.

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Re: Dominion Anthology/Fan edtion PLEASE
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2018, 08:34:18 pm »
+6

What really interests me is cards which combine those hallmarks. Debt-cost Reserve cards. Durations you can overpay for. Durations that give you coin tokens. All that good stuff. If most cards have characteristics of more than one previous expansion, there can be a lot more than two cards relating to each.
If there continue to be expansions, then debt could conceivably return in one, and Reserve cards could conceivably return in one. Both in the same set? Man, I don't think it's the move to cram sets full of mechanics - yes based on my experiences to date including Nocturne - and I don't think new expansions want to just revisit old mechanics either. So, I mean, get to the variants forum and make your own debt reserve card, and you'll get to play with one.

Then too, when a set has multiple mechanics, it's best to minimize how often multiple mechanics show up on one card. Instead of it being, "this is so cool it has both cool things," it's, "if you don't like either of these mechanics, you don't like this." For example, some people like Heirlooms but not Boons. Three of the seven Heirloom-givers have Boons. Turns out, that wasn't the move.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Dominion Anthology/Fan edtion PLEASE
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2018, 09:34:01 pm »
+2

Three of the seven Heirloom-givers have Boons. Turns out, that wasn't the move.

As I recall, we tried to avoid that for a long time. But there were only so many cards in the set.
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crj

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Re: Dominion Anthology/Fan edtion PLEASE
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2018, 10:46:43 pm »
0

Then too, when a set has multiple mechanics, it's best to minimize how often multiple mechanics show up on one card. Instead of it being, "this is so cool it has both cool things," it's, "if you don't like either of these mechanics, you don't like this." For example, some people like Heirlooms but not Boons. Three of the seven Heirloom-givers have Boons. Turns out, that wasn't the move.
I see that issue with multiple novel mechanics, but does it also apply with multiple established mechanics, or a mixture of old and new?

I mean, a few years after Seaside and Alchemy had come out, I'm guessing it was pretty clear that some people would like more Potion cards while others would be horrified by that idea. By contrast, I suspect the number of people thinking "oh no, more Durations" when they saw Adventures was approximately zero. And I suspect you were confident of that in advance.

To be clear, some people might be wanting the return of heaps of existing mechanics for the sake of heaps of mechanics, or watching Courtier break, or whatever. I'm wanting the return of heaps of mechanics because I see what each brings to the party in the right circumstances, and just bet there are fascinating card ideas that are difficult or impossible to achieve without a combination of them.
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KingPeter

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Re: Dominion Anthology/Fan edtion PLEASE
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2018, 11:12:40 pm »
+1

One issue with treasure chest expansions is that they fail to have a true theme.  If you're not careful, it'll look like just a collection of outtakes and ideas.  I know Dominion doesn't rely on theme all that much, but without a theme, there won't be any common ground for people to talk about: we both might like the set, but like and dislike opposite cards.  Durations, as Adventures showed, can be brought back easily, but it's almost impossible to put Potions in a set and not make it an Alchemy sequel.

Really, the Promos are nearing the size of a small expansion, and could be seen as a treasure chest sort of expansion in their own right.
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popsofctown

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Re: Dominion Anthology/Fan edtion PLEASE
« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2018, 12:28:02 am »
+2

It's kinda fundamentally flawed to base a set design on "the subset of people who buy every dominion expansion no matter what's in it, what would they most enjoy?"

From a financial perspective at least.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2018, 01:08:06 am by popsofctown »
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crj

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Re: Dominion Anthology/Fan edtion PLEASE
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2018, 12:13:30 pm »
0

But, as I said, people may not continue unquestioningly buying expansions forever.

If money was the only consideration, then people who wanted a Treasure Chest expansion more than they wanted expansions which introduced new mechanics should boycott other expansions until they get it. Once enough people did that, a Treasure Chest would make the greater financial sense.

But money isn't the only consideration. Indeed, I get the impression the real sticking point is simply that Donald doesn't want to do it.
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theblankman

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Re: Dominion Anthology/Fan edtion PLEASE
« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2018, 02:42:37 pm »
+1

Maybe-unpopular opinion: I kinda think there's enough Dominion cards, and I hope instead of expansions we get spinoffs or just new games from Donald X.
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Donald X.

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Re: Dominion Anthology/Fan edtion PLEASE
« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2018, 04:17:04 pm »
0

I mean, a few years after Seaside and Alchemy had come out, I'm guessing it was pretty clear that some people would like more Potion cards while others would be horrified by that idea. By contrast, I suspect the number of people thinking "oh no, more Durations" when they saw Adventures was approximately zero. And I suspect you were confident of that in advance.
And yet this thread lists potion-costers as a thing to do more of.

To be clear, some people might be wanting the return of heaps of existing mechanics for the sake of heaps of mechanics, or watching Courtier break, or whatever. I'm wanting the return of heaps of mechanics because I see what each brings to the party in the right circumstances, and just bet there are fascinating card ideas that are difficult or impossible to achieve without a combination of them.
Let us use the example of Debt + Reserve. So uh. It uh costs Debt and is a Reserve card? I'm not seeing what you get out of this. Debt wasn't there to do things you couldn't do without Debt; it was there to do Debt. One card uses it to fix a problem - Engineer - and the rest just showcase it. It's been showcased already, we've done it. Reserve cards meanwhile are these things you can save until you want to use them. There's just no mechanical connection. It would just be doing a Debt + Reserve card to do one.
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Donald X.

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Re: Dominion Anthology/Fan edtion PLEASE
« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2018, 04:24:21 pm »
+5

But money isn't the only consideration. Indeed, I get the impression the real sticking point is simply that Donald doesn't want to do it.
In fact, I decided I was fine with doing a Treasure Chest set, and put in the work to see how that would go, and that set is Adventures. As a visible thing, it only revisits Duration cards. That was the way to do it. And of course it has some of the mechanics that every set gets to have though once they were a set theme - an Action-Victory card like Intrigue, special Treasures like Prosperity, when-gain like Hinterlands.
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gambit05

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Re: Dominion Anthology/Fan edtion PLEASE
« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2018, 05:07:56 pm »
+1

In fact, I decided I was fine with doing a Treasure Chest set, and put in the work to see how that would go, and that set is Adventures. As a visible thing, it only revisits Duration cards. That was the way to do it. And of course it has some of the mechanics that every set gets to have though once they were a set theme - an Action-Victory card like Intrigue, special Treasures like Prosperity, when-gain like Hinterlands.
Thanks Donald X. Now I know why my favorite expansion is Adventures. By the way, it is closely followed by Nocturne and Empires. Really great work after your "official" expansions. Keep up this good work.
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spiralstaircase

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Re: Dominion Anthology/Fan edtion PLEASE
« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2018, 05:21:49 pm »
0

So, you've said here and elsewhere that Adventures began as a treasure set, and that Durations were visible the thing you could revisit, and that's why it ended up as a sequel of sorts to Seaside.  You've said yourself that Empires started out as a sequel to Prosperity, so we got more VP tokens, as well as the novel elements that it inspired.

Anyway, I count myself among the people who are sad that we'll never see more official potion-cost cards, but I'd still love to see your sequel to Alchemy, even if it has to take some other form.
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crj

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Re: Dominion Anthology/Fan edtion PLEASE
« Reply #20 on: March 18, 2018, 09:29:35 pm »
0

Let us use the example of Debt + Reserve. So uh. It uh costs Debt and is a Reserve card? I'm not seeing what you get out of this.
I was assuming that, while brainstorming ideas for new cards, you would from time to time have come up with some idea that you shelved because to make it work you'd need some existing mechanic that you didn't want to bring into the set you were designing.

Specifically for Debt and Reserve, the first combined mechanic which springs to mind is "This is gained to your Tavern mat (instead of your discard pile) ---- At the end of your Buy phase, if you have no Debt, you may discard this from your Tavern mat". Maybe that specific combination would suck, but I hope it illustrates the kind of thing I expect to be lurking wherever mechanics meet.
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Donald X.

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Re: Dominion Anthology/Fan edtion PLEASE
« Reply #21 on: March 18, 2018, 11:12:48 pm »
+3

Let us use the example of Debt + Reserve. So uh. It uh costs Debt and is a Reserve card? I'm not seeing what you get out of this.
I was assuming that, while brainstorming ideas for new cards, you would from time to time have come up with some idea that you shelved because to make it work you'd need some existing mechanic that you didn't want to bring into the set you were designing.

Specifically for Debt and Reserve, the first combined mechanic which springs to mind is "This is gained to your Tavern mat (instead of your discard pile) ---- At the end of your Buy phase, if you have no Debt, you may discard this from your Tavern mat". Maybe that specific combination would suck, but I hope it illustrates the kind of thing I expect to be lurking wherever mechanics meet.
I'm not looking for card suggestions; there's a variants forum. I'm not trying to torment anyone by making it sound like it's a good time to suggest things either; I guess this isn't a conversation I can have. It's okay; since I'm not going to make a Debt+Reserve card, no-one will think I copied your idea. Well but really. If I discuss your idea, say what I think of it in particular, it will just prompt more homemade card discussion; it's no good for me. I am going to have to leave it as: your idea has not swayed me; feel free to share it in the variants forum and see what they think there, but it is not welcome here.
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Gazbag

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Re: Dominion Anthology/Fan edtion PLEASE
« Reply #22 on: March 18, 2018, 11:30:54 pm »
+9

Overlord can be a Debt cost reserve card. I wouldn't recommend it though. I guess it can be good as Wine Merchant on the last turn or something.
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crj

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Re: Dominion Anthology/Fan edtion PLEASE
« Reply #23 on: March 19, 2018, 10:51:48 pm »
0

It's okay; since I'm not going to make a Debt+Reserve card, no-one will think I copied your idea.
I'm aware of the variants forum. But I don't feel I was proposing a variant, and that certainly wasn't my intent. Any more than someone is proposing a variant if they discuss the mythical "+1 Card, +1 Action, +$1" card. My example was just a trivial cut-and-shut on bits of Wine Merchant and Nomad Camp.

You said you didn't see what one gets out of a card both having debt Cost and being a Reserve. My response: what one gets is the potential for the two mechanics to interact.

Sorry if it was then inappropriate to demonstrate that such interaction is possible. )-8
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Donald X.

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Re: Dominion Anthology/Fan edtion PLEASE
« Reply #24 on: March 20, 2018, 04:01:18 am »
+1

It's okay; since I'm not going to make a Debt+Reserve card, no-one will think I copied your idea.
I'm aware of the variants forum. But I don't feel I was proposing a variant, and that certainly wasn't my intent. Any more than someone is proposing a variant if they discuss the mythical "+1 Card, +1 Action, +$1" card. My example was just a trivial cut-and-shut on bits of Wine Merchant and Nomad Camp.

You said you didn't see what one gets out of a card both having debt Cost and being a Reserve. My response: what one gets is the potential for the two mechanics to interact.

Sorry if it was then inappropriate to demonstrate that such interaction is possible. )-8
It's just a conversation I can't have. It was my mistake for saying anything about it.
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ipofanes

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Re: Dominion Anthology/Fan edtion PLEASE
« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2018, 06:39:43 am »
0

Trade re-implements Trader in a new way.

Isn't it Trading Post reimplemented?

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Re: Dominion Anthology/Fan edtion PLEASE
« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2018, 06:54:47 am »
0

Trade re-implements Trader in a new way.

Isn't it Trading Post reimplemented?

No, It's Trade implemented.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Dominion Anthology/Fan edtion PLEASE
« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2018, 10:08:37 am »
+1

Maybe-unpopular opinion: I kinda think there's enough Dominion cards, and I hope instead of expansions we get spinoffs or just new games from Donald X.

I will never not be excited when a new set is announced, yet I would also love to see a new Donald X game.
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crj

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Re: Dominion Anthology/Fan edtion PLEASE
« Reply #28 on: March 20, 2018, 02:34:13 pm »
+2

I will never not be excited when a new set is announced
That statement will come back to haunt you the day Donald and RGG make an expansion that licenses Barney the Dinosaur for the theme and Monopoly for the mechanics.
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spiralstaircase

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Re: Dominion Anthology/Fan edtion PLEASE
« Reply #29 on: March 20, 2018, 04:12:47 pm »
0

and Monopoly for the mechanics.

Now there's a thought.  Though it falls down pretty much immediately, because Ruins for the browns, fair enough, but then why are the best spaces purple?
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Tombolo

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Re: Dominion Anthology/Fan edtion PLEASE
« Reply #30 on: March 22, 2018, 10:21:42 pm »
0

I will never not be excited when a new set is announced
That statement will come back to haunt you the day  and RGG make an expansion that licenses Barney the Dinosaur for the theme and Monopoly for the mechanics.

well now I'm trying to figure out how to make that work, thanks
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