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Author Topic: Lets discuss intrigue cards:coppersmith  (Read 546 times)

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Chase Adolphson

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Lets discuss intrigue cards:coppersmith
« on: March 16, 2018, 05:35:37 pm »
0

WHY DID COPPERSMITH GET REMOVED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It is my favorite intrigue card. It has so many obvious combos. Apothecary, counting house, doom cards, (because of  greed), fountain, palace, keep, banquet, treasure trove, beggar, ill gotten gain and cache.
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Gazbag

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Re: Lets discuss intrigue cards:coppersmith
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2018, 05:58:12 pm »
+2

The thing is, you already start the game with 7 Coppers in your deck so Coppersmith never really benefited much from gaining more Coppers. It was more important to be able to draw a bunch of Coppers with Coppersmiths and have +buy so you could spend all the money, no use getting $26 and only having 1 buy right? So things like Treasure Trove, Cache, etc. weren't actually very good with Coppersmith because they make it harder for you to line everything up.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Lets discuss intrigue cards:coppersmith
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2018, 07:14:23 pm »
+7

no use getting $26 and only having 1 buy right?

I dunno if this was intentional or not, but lol.
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Holunder9

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Re: Lets discuss intrigue cards:coppersmith
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2018, 12:53:31 pm »
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WHY DID COPPERSMITH GET REMOVED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I guess because it is as weak as USING CAPS !!!
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Aleimon Thimble

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Re: Lets discuss intrigue cards:coppersmith
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2018, 03:30:41 am »
+1

Coppersmith shines on engine boards with weak trashing (or better yet: only Estate trashing) and strong everything else. So say you have Lost City and a spammable +Buy such as Pawn on the board, but only Salvager or maybe Remodel for trashing, that's a situation where Coppersmith is awesome. Throne variants can be exceptionally strong as well. If the stars align and you manage to draw deck with little or no trashing, each Coppersmith play can be a terminal +$7, which is $14 when Throned or $21 when Kinged. Insane.

Most often, though, either there's no engine at all (making Coppersmith fairly useless) or the trashing is so strong that you're better off just ditching all the Coppers. So Coppersmith is fairly situational. But it was the strongest and coolest card out of the ones that got killed in the second editions, so that's still a bit sad. I still play with it IRL though.
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crj

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Re: Lets discuss intrigue cards:coppersmith
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2018, 11:04:24 am »
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However, as discussed in this thread just a few days ago, you'll really struggle to draw your deck reliably with seven Coppers in it, let alone with several Coppersmiths as well. Indeed, even King's Court is a stop card!
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Aleimon Thimble

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Re: Lets discuss intrigue cards:coppersmith
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2018, 02:20:02 pm »
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However, as discussed in this thread just a few days ago, you'll really struggle to draw your deck reliably with seven Coppers in it, let alone with several Coppersmiths as well. Indeed, even King's Court is a stop card!

Yeah. Which means that you're not 100% guaranteed to draw your deck if you run a Coppersmith engine. It doesn't mean that the engine isn't viable.

Of course, if you're able to trash all the Coppers easily (Chapel/Remake/Steward and friends come to mind), Coppersmith is not the way to go and you should go for the more reliable engine. But if you're not, a Coppersmith engine could still beat BM or an engine without Coppersmith.
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crj

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Re: Lets discuss intrigue cards:coppersmith
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2018, 04:28:55 pm »
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Not 100% guaranteed is an understatement. Can you give an example of a plausible Coppersmith engine that's got even a 1 in 3 chance of drawing your deck?
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Chris is me

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Re: Lets discuss intrigue cards:coppersmith
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2018, 09:44:53 pm »
+3

Not 100% guaranteed is an understatement. Can you give an example of a plausible Coppersmith engine that's got even a 1 in 3 chance of drawing your deck?

Decks with limited or no copper trashing and a couple terminal payload cards get built all the time. Just throw a couple Dungeons at it.
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crj

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Re: Lets discuss intrigue cards:coppersmith
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2018, 09:59:31 pm »
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Sure. And they'll beat BM. But do you think they qualify as engines, or just BM+2*Dungeon+whatever?

Talk of reliably drawing your entire deck, let alone then playing King's Court + Coppersmith for a three-Province turn seems fanciful.
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markusin

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Re: Lets discuss intrigue cards:coppersmith
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2018, 10:16:40 pm »
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Sure. And they'll beat BM. But do you think they qualify as engines, or just BM+2*Dungeon+whatever?

Talk of reliably drawing your entire deck, let alone then playing King's Court + Coppersmith for a three-Province turn seems fanciful.

To be fair, you're probably fine if you pull a triple Province turn even just once if you're otherwise stuck playing Big Money.

Coppersmith is cool. Heck, it was my avatar on this forum for a long time. It lets you roll the dice and hope to hit $6 on turns 3-5 when drawing it with 3 Coppers. It also gives a lot of money if you did get fortunate enough to draw big. It's just, there is always high risk when you want to do anything big with Coppersmith. It's also lost a lot of its luster with the addition of say Wine Merchant or heck Miser.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2018, 10:18:36 pm by markusin »
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traces Around

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Re: Lets discuss intrigue cards:coppersmith
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2018, 10:22:39 pm »
+5

If we really want to talk about KC decks, well, there's this card called Wharf, so yeah, you can be pretty dang reliable drawing your deck. And that's not going to be 3-Province - more like all of them. This deck is good enough at drawing that you are often better off not trashing Copper anyways even without Coppersmith around.

Even not talking about KC, yeah, we are talking decks that consistently draw deck when saying throw a couple Dungeons at it, even can happen without those Dungeons. Whether or not Coppersmith was the best use of remaining terminal space was a different manner, but if you couldn't trash Copper, it used to be a pretty good deal.
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