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Author Topic: Rebuild as a Remodel variant  (Read 1687 times)

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JW

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Rebuild as a Remodel variant
« on: March 15, 2018, 10:35:04 pm »
+3

Revised Rebuild
$5 Action
Trash a card from your hand. If it is a Curse, Ruins, Shelter, or Victory card, gain a card costing up to $3 more than it. Otherwise, gain a card costing up to $2 more than it.

Vagrant’s cousin and a slightly better Remodel. It might be a bit too weak in games with Shelters because you don't have starting Estates to convert to cards that cost $5.

Inspired by the following exchange:

Any card that lets you almost entirely bypass building up your deck is going to be bad for the game. Either it's too weak to consider, or it's strong enough and makes games boring. And that's pretty much Rebuild's entire concept: play it a lot and gain Provinces.
On the other hand, Expand is fine, and not even considered that great a card. Despite working on things other than Victories.

Ways in which Expand is weaker:
  • Costs more
  • Terminal
  • Works from hand, not from deck
Is there really no way Rebuild could be saved by playing around with one or more of those?

For more on the problems with Rebuild, see Donald X's comments:

Quote
In retrospect the card is clearly too powerful for how interesting it is. Which is to say, the most powerful cards should make for lots of interesting gameplay and different situations; Chapel for example may be strong, but the games play out differently depending on the rest of the cards. With Rebuild the rest of the cards are too unlikely to get involved in your Rebuild deck.

For casual players it probably isn't a problem, unless one of them reads online about how to use Rebuild. For serious players you will probably have more fun just not playing with Rebuild after you've had the experience. I would rather that not be the case, but well at least there are 34 other kingdom cards in Dark Ages.
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Holunder9

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Re: Rebuild as a Remodel variant
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2018, 06:16:41 am »
0

Not that I would try to fix Rebuild in any way but the card looks roughly balanced. Probably a bit weaker than Replace though.
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Gazbag

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Re: Rebuild as a Remodel variant
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2018, 07:28:54 am »
+5

Card seems deece, expanding Estates is nice. $5 Remodels with benefit are relatively unexplored compared to a lot things.

An idea to "fix" Rebuild but keep it closer to what it was intended as I had was just to cap it at gaining Duchies, or Victory costing up to $5 to work with kingdom vp. So it can still dig out and upgrade estates but not drain the Province pie. 
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Kirian

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Re: Rebuild as a Remodel variant
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2018, 03:03:18 pm »
0

I don't know... I think the simplest fix for Rebuild is to just remove the +1 Action.  That takes care of about 80% of the issue...
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Awaclus

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Re: Rebuild as a Remodel variant
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2018, 01:31:58 am »
0

The best way to fix Rebuild is to get better at the game until you know how to beat it.
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Re: Rebuild as a Remodel variant
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2018, 01:39:35 pm »
+1

I don't know... I think the simplest fix for Rebuild is to just remove the +1 Action.  That takes care of about 80% of the issue...

If anything, this makes Rebuild less interesting - when you go for it, you have no hope of incorporrating anything else in the deck at all. It’s not that much weaker as a monolithic strategy, though obviously a nerf.

I think the fix in the OP is actually cool and interesting.
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Holunder9

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Re: Rebuild as a Remodel variant
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2018, 12:16:56 pm »
0

I don't think that making the card terminal would do the trick. Digging for a Victory card AND expanding it is the problem of Rebuild, it makes it a fail-safe certain card.
If the card were terminal all you'd have to do would be to add some villages to your deck and that's it, nothing further is necessary (of course the deck still profits from generating enough playload for further Rebuilds and draw/sifting to play the Rebuilds more frequently).
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Gazbag

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Re: Rebuild as a Remodel variant
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2018, 12:40:30 pm »
0

I think all that making Rebuild terminal does is make the mirror even more luck based as you basically play it the same and hope they don't collide...
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Holger

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Re: Rebuild as a Remodel variant
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2018, 02:30:16 pm »
0

I don't know... I think the simplest fix for Rebuild is to just remove the +1 Action.  That takes care of about 80% of the issue...

If anything, this makes Rebuild less interesting - when you go for it, you have no hope of incorporrating anything else in the deck at all. It’s not that much weaker as a monolithic strategy, though obviously a nerf.

Surprisingly, removing the +1 Action is quite a strong nerf - it makes Rebuild-BM only marginally stronger than Smithy-BM according to simulations I did a few years ago:

TerminalRebuild loses to the strongest BM cards: Wharf, Goons, GhostShip, DoubleJack, all Cursers.

It essentially ties with Monument (51:49), Envoy (48.5:51.5), Smithy (52:48) and Courtyard (50:50), and wins against all other implemented one-card strategies (Militia, Masq., HP, Amb., Library, ...).

Of course, TerminalRebuild-BM would still be better than Smithy-BM against engines because it eliminates the Duchy pile.

Quote
I think the fix in the OP is actually cool and interesting.

Agreed. I think it could even work without the "Otherwise" sentence, maybe at $4.
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