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### AuthorTopic: What are all the deviations from the 2/5 and 3/4 split?  (Read 1542 times)

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#### ackmondual

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##### What are all the deviations from the 2/5 and 3/4 split?
« on: March 12, 2018, 12:27:31 am »
+1

It used to be fun to joke about getting the 3/5 split, but nowadays, it's not just a case of cheating, or accidently messing up the start decks.

For the purposes of this thread, I'll set the following parameters:
--The order is irrelevant
There are cases where 3/4 vs. 4/3 have mattered, but.. not here.  End result is you're still getting a 3-cost card, and up to a 4-cost card

Valid factors for deviation include:
--disrupting what cards you can get before the first shuffle (not counting the one at game start)
--being able to get a more expensive card, even if it's at the cost of the other card being cheaper
--being able to get more than 2 cards
--getting cards sooner (like before the first shuffle)

.

As of Nocturne and 9 expansions, I've got:
Possible to get 4/5

>Advance + Necropolis (Emp + DA)
Trash the Necropolis for a \$5 action card, while the next turn \$3, \$4, or \$5 for something else

>Baker (Guilds)
Setup has each player start off with a coin token, enabling the 3/5, 4/4, or 2/6 split

>Port - It's part of the card, but it does let you do 4/4/3 split
>Alms - 4/5 split
>Ball - 2/4/4 split
>Borrow - 4/4 split, or 2/6 split
>Ferry - let's you do 0/6 by turning the 3/4 split via Ferry token onto \$6 card, then buying that for \$4
>Save - 0/6 split or 1/5 split
>Scouting Party - accelerates to the reshuffle
>Traveling Fair - You can spend the \$4 or \$5 from first turn on this, then top deck whatever you get

EMPIRES
>Forum - 2/5/0 split
>Crumbling Castle - 4/Silver/3 split
>Debt cost cards - while 8 Debt isn't quite the same as 8-coins, I'm counting given the parameters I've set
>Banquet - 5/4 split, with a 2 Copper penalty

NOCTURNE
>Pouch - extra buy can let you get a 3rd card
>Cursed Gold - 7/2 split, 5/4 split, and everything in between
>Lucky Coin - the usual 2/5 and 3/4, but with Silver on top of that
>Ghost Town + Den Of Sin - gained into you hand, so disrupts shuffle
>Guardian - gained into your hand, so 2/6 split
>Night Watchman - ditto here as with Ghost Town + DoS above

>Blessed Village - Receive a Boon upon gaining, which could give you an extra Silver, Gold, 4-cost card, or draw you more cards
>Cursed Village - ditto here like with Blessed Village above, but with Hexes instead (e.g. Plague for Curse)

EDIT: typo in Crumbling Castle
« Last Edit: March 14, 2018, 03:06:49 am by ackmondual »
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Village, +2 Actions.  Village, +3 Actions.  Village, +4 Actions.  Village, +5 Actions.  Village, +6 Actions.  Village, +7 Actions.  Workers Village, +2 Buys, +8 Actions.  End Action Phase.  No Treasures to play.  No buy.  No Night cards to play

#### ipofanes

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##### Re: What are all the deviations from the 2/5 and 3/4 split?
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2018, 06:17:25 am »
0

>Port - It's part of the card, but it does let you do 4/4/3 split

I think this is quite a stretch since you cannot choose the other €4 card drawn. Otherwise, you might like to add the 5/2/2 split when Duchess is in the kingdom.
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#### dz

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##### Re: What are all the deviations from the 2/5 and 3/4 split?
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2018, 06:57:59 am »
+2

Otherwise, you might like to add the 5/2/2 split when Duchess is in the kingdom.

I would love to see a log where someone opens Duchy and gains Duchess and then wins.

>Crumbling Castle - 4/Silver/4 split

I'm pretty sure this is wrong. It should be \$4(Crumbling Castle) / Silver / \$3 split. Crumbling Castle costs \$4 dude.
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#### Awaclus

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##### Re: What are all the deviations from the 2/5 and 3/4 split?
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2018, 07:29:43 am »
+1

I would love to see a log where someone opens Duchy and gains Duchess and then wins.

12512751
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#### markusin

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##### Re: What are all the deviations from the 2/5 and 3/4 split?
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2018, 09:04:30 am »
0

Borrow can also be used for a 3/5 opening. With luck, you can also get a 5/4 or 4/5 opening by using Borrow on both turns if the Turn 1 borrow makes you not draw an Estate Turn 2 instead of Copper.
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#### Cuzz

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##### Re: What are all the deviations from the 2/5 and 3/4 split?
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2018, 09:23:38 am »
+1

Mandarin/\$5/\$2

Also cursed village is undersold, since both War and Bad Omens can flip your deck before T2, giving you another \$5 potentially.

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#### LaLight

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##### Re: What are all the deviations from the 2/5 and 3/4 split?
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2018, 11:08:34 am »
+6

Mandarin/\$5/\$2

Also cursed village is undersold, since both War and Bad Omens can flip your deck before T2, giving you another \$5 potentially.

Mandarin/Mandarin/Mandarin/Mandarin/Mandarin/Mandarin/Mandarin/Mandarin/Mandarin/Mandarin/\$5/\$2 you mean
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#### Cuzz

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##### Re: What are all the deviations from the 2/5 and 3/4 split?
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2018, 11:20:41 am »
0

Mandarin/\$5/\$2

Also cursed village is undersold, since both War and Bad Omens can flip your deck before T2, giving you another \$5 potentially.

Mandarin/Mandarin/Mandarin/Mandarin/Mandarin/Mandarin/Mandarin/Mandarin/Mandarin/Mandarin/\$5/\$2 you mean

Would this actually be remotely worth doing on a Tower or Obelisk board?
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#### faust

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##### Re: What are all the deviations from the 2/5 and 3/4 split?
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2018, 11:22:32 am »
+5

Mandarin/\$5/\$2

Also cursed village is undersold, since both War and Bad Omens can flip your deck before T2, giving you another \$5 potentially.

Mandarin/Mandarin/Mandarin/Mandarin/Mandarin/Mandarin/Mandarin/Mandarin/Mandarin/Mandarin/\$5/\$2 you mean

Would this actually be remotely worth doing on a Tower or Obelisk board?
Maybe if there's also Baker on the board and you can Lost Arts the Mandarins with your last \$5 after you emptied them.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

#### faust

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##### Re: What are all the deviations from the 2/5 and 3/4 split?
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2018, 11:28:43 am »
0

More on topic: cards that give 2+ cards (Port, Stonemason, Skulk etc.) as their main function should not be part of this list. I also don't think Ferry belongs here; the split does not change using this.

A notable thing missing is Summon.

It's also unclear if you want to count disruptions caused by your opponent, which would extend this list significantly.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

#### crj

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##### Re: What are all the deviations from the 2/5 and 3/4 split?
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2018, 11:34:13 am »
0

Port
I think this is quite a stretch since you cannot choose the other €4 card drawn.
Feels OK to me.

So too does Stonemason, which could get you anything up to \$2/\$1/\$1/\$2/\$2/\$2 if you go wild with it when Poor Houses are available.

Other possibilities I can see:
• Another player buys Lost City
• Another player buys Messenger
• Summon
• To state the obvious, all the terrifying potential combinations of things already mentioned. (-8
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#### faust

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##### Re: What are all the deviations from the 2/5 and 3/4 split?
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2018, 11:44:58 am »
0

Also, Doctor is missing.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

#### hypercube

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##### Re: What are all the deviations from the 2/5 and 3/4 split?
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2018, 11:49:43 am »
+3

Going back to Hinterlands there's also opponent buying Noble Brigand.

Since Villa lets you open with the entire supply it's probably worth a mention.
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#### faust

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##### Re: What are all the deviations from the 2/5 and 3/4 split?
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2018, 12:52:58 pm »
0

And don't forget Cemetery trashing Overgrown Estate!
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

#### Commodore Chuckles

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##### Re: What are all the deviations from the 2/5 and 3/4 split?
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2018, 01:48:48 pm »
0

Inn on turn 1 can get you 5/3.
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#### octelium

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##### Re: What are all the deviations from the 2/5 and 3/4 split?
« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2018, 04:00:21 pm »
0

If you want to have fun with this try the following board:
Tracker
Doctor
Night Watchman
Villa
Messenger
Cemetery
Pooka
Den of Sin
Mandarin
Mint

w/Shelters...

With a possible opening of 7(2buys)/2 ......
« Last Edit: March 12, 2018, 04:02:10 pm by octelium »
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