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[Robz888]

Vote: Robz

where r u going?

[theorel]

I'm not sure I follow what you're "interested" in.  My original collection of thoughts is just the things that seemed salient from the previous day as I considered each player (and scanned their posts to remember what happened). One of those facts is that mcmc thought there was scum in your argument with witherweaver.  My reaction to that fact, given that mcmc is town, is to temper my original reaction, because I have no particular reason to believe that my read of the situation was in fact the correct one.  I'm not embracing mcmc's reaction, because I have no particular reason to believe that his read was in fact the correct one.

It feels like you accused me of taking mcmc's read and deciding you must be scum because of it, and so I explained the "value" judgments in my reasoning (i.e. recognizing mcmc's alignment reduced my town-read, looking at the rest of the day turned it into a scum-read), but then you accused me of not making a value judgment? I'm not sure what kind of "value" you're expecting...unless you just mean the original post?  I didn't offer much value there for anyone until the conclusion...I think you're just stuck on a style thing.

you seemed to me to be cherrypicking

mcmc said ww and me might be tvs. your reaction was that it was tvt, datswan's reaction was that it was tvt (and you seem to think he was town), space's reaction was that it was tvt (idk there is a decent chance they are town, you can care about someone's read without them being even likely town)

your reaction upon seeing mcmc's post was "nah i disagree" and the fact that you said you tempered your reaction after his flip suggests you wouldn't have been especially convinced by him initially; it seemed more likely to me that you were looking for a way to drop your townread of me and noticed "oh hey mcmc disagreed with me and flipped town" than that you had become convinced by mcmc's claim (especially since your wording didn't suggest you were specifically lending credence to him, e.g. that he is a competent town player or something. that is what i was referring to with a value judgement)

as well you had a rather confident scumread of me because you thought my place on the mcmc wagon was weird but twm and i have been talking about that for a while and you haven't seemed to be interested

vote: theorel

Or...maybe mcmc's reaction is relevant because it is what inspired my scum-read, whereas I don't particularly remember anyone else's reaction.  But lending credence to a town-read is a whole different ball-game IMO than lending credence to a confirmed town player.  Regarding your conversation with TWM, I dunno, it didn't seem like there was a need to interject into it?  I think my points were already made, none of them changed.

[theorel]

My scum-read of mcmc, not my scum-read of schadd...to clarify above post.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

that is what i was getting at with the people don't tend to defend partners thing. a lot of people here overvalue vca and are conscious of counterwagons. in response, i have observed very often that scum here will bus often and make little attempt to dislodge a scum wagon if one is building.

Not day 1. Bussing on day 1 is basically suicide. Especially with only two partners.

And I am not even talking about defending. I am just talking about a subtle move toward someone other than mcmc to make it a viable option. I actually anticipated people suspecting me of exactly that when I moved off mcmc which is why I didn't exactly spell it out yesterday.

But OK. I am not going to convince you of this. If you are town, then you are convinced you are town and did a townie thing. If you are scum I am not trying to convince you. But am interested if this idea is working for anyone else or if I am totally off base?

gosh wouldn't you think so. but people do do it. m102 galzria and pps both bussed and lynched faust d1 three players not two. ww empty bussed both of his partners in 104three players not two. i don't immediately remember it for other people who were on wagon. but like people do specifically try to get things like your unvote to happen, as far as i understand that is a significant reason for pps' hammer thing. huh? Nevermind. I don't really care.

i don't suppose the thing i did was townie it wasn't. especially the way it happened. It isn't just that you voted for mcmc that was scummy. It was what you did before and how you voted (idk i could have thought it through more probably, if i had remembered pps would hammer immediately i wouldn't have voted) but i also don't suppose that i unilaterally should have not voted according to your thing I wouldn't have minded the vote had you and pps at least given it some thought (and publicly shown this by posting said thoughts instead of saying that you had thoughts retroactively).

And again. I am not super interested in what you are saying. I want to hear from everyone else.
 There are X number of townies. Can any of you townies give me some sort of input on my thoughts here?
 Seriously?

My points in red

[The_Wine_Merchant]

And sorry for the weird structure above. I am on a tablet and this site is having some really weird issues with it and trying to quote appropriately. Was the only way I could figure out how to do it and not kill myself in the process.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Both schadd and theorel's votes for each other look like they are both trying to justify voting for the other.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Vote: theorel since he apparently can't help himself

Also horrifically weak vote to leave at a crucial moment unless you actually think he is scum? I can't tell.

[pingpongsam]

Vote: Robz

[Robz888]

Vote: theorel since he apparently can't help himself

Also horrifically weak vote to leave at a crucial moment unless you actually think he is scum? I can't tell.

I am getting scum vibes but I can't explain it really any better than I did previously.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Robz and pps. You both posted without giving comment on my thoughts on schadd. I am asking any and all townies what they rhink

[schadd]

Or...maybe mcmc's reaction is relevant because it is what inspired my scum-read, whereas I don't particularly remember anyone else's reaction.  But lending credence to a town-read is a whole different ball-game IMO than lending credence to a confirmed town player.  Regarding your conversation with TWM, I dunno, it didn't seem like there was a need to interject into it?  I think my points were already made, none of them changed.

i disagree that it is a different ballpark, the probability of a townread being town is p high. even a not-townread

i mean you asked me a question. did you think anything about the several walls of text i posted essentially in response to that question

that is what i was getting at with the people don't tend to defend partners thing. a lot of people here overvalue vca and are conscious of counterwagons. in response, i have observed very often that scum here will bus often and make little attempt to dislodge a scum wagon if one is building.

Not day 1. Bussing on day 1 is basically suicide. Especially with only two partners.

And I am not even talking about defending. I am just talking about a subtle move toward someone other than mcmc to make it a viable option. I actually anticipated people suspecting me of exactly that when I moved off mcmc which is why I didn't exactly spell it out yesterday.

But OK. I am not going to convince you of this. If you are town, then you are convinced you are town and did a townie thing. If you are scum I am not trying to convince you. But am interested if this idea is working for anyone else or if I am totally off base?

gosh wouldn't you think so. but people do do it. m102 galzria and pps both bussed and lynched faust d1 three players not two. ww empty bussed both of his partners in 104three players not two. i don't immediately remember it for other people who were on wagon. but like people do specifically try to get things like your unvote to happen, as far as i understand that is a significant reason for pps' hammer thing. huh? Nevermind. I don't really care.

i don't suppose the thing i did was townie it wasn't. especially the way it happened. It isn't just that you voted for mcmc that was scummy. It was what you did before and how you voted (idk i could have thought it through more probably, if i had remembered pps would hammer immediately i wouldn't have voted) but i also don't suppose that i unilaterally should have not voted according to your thing I wouldn't have minded the vote had you and pps at least given it some thought (and publicly shown this by posting said thoughts instead of saying that you had thoughts retroactively).

And again. I am not super interested in what you are saying. I want to hear from everyone else.
 There are X number of townies. Can any of you townies give me some sort of input on my thoughts here?
 Seriously?

My points in red

lmfao there are two scum

ok

it is minutia anyway. i guess i agree bussing is more unlikely but yes i would not have considered that

i mean i did give the thing you said thought. i said "people don't defend partners here" to try to communicate all this stuff from today and i guess wasn't clear

Both schadd and theorel's votes for each other look like they are both trying to justify voting for the other.

i mean i agree with you about theorel on me, that is largely what i am scumreading him for

[schadd]

i sort of think robz is town

i would lynch ww as well, abouts the same level of scumread as theorel

[schadd]

I was actually thinking there is no way schadd and WW are scum partners when mcmc did the thing where he said something about them being tvt.

is this the scum trap

[schadd]

And sorry for the weird structure above.

i forgive u

[Joseph2302]

Joseph, how could schadd have hammered if he was the one putting the wagon to L-1 in the first place?

And did you realise with "Let's do the thing" that you were potentially hammering?

I didn't notice that he was the one that L-1ed.
Ignore my previous comment then

[Joseph2302]

Deadline is 10pm my time tomorrow, so I should be home from about an hour before that.

(@Joseph/anyone else on UK-linked timezones, note that we're back to being 5 hours ahead again now our clocks have changed...)

Thanks for reminding, I need to change my forum time (again!)

[Joseph2302]

I'm probably not going to be around for deadline nevertheless

[Joseph2302]

But Vote: Robz seems fine

[Galzria]

Hammertime. vote: Robz

[SpaceAnemone]

Wow.. I went to bed not long after voting, and now I wake up to a hammer where all my top list of scumreads have binned the wagon in between.. that doesn't seem very encouraging for me :-/

[EFHW]

twilight until 9 a.m.

[SpaceAnemone]

Wow.. I went to bed not long after voting, and now I wake up to a hammer where all my top list of scumreads have binned the wagon in between.. that doesn't seem very encouraging for me :-/

Joined the wagon, even. Not good at phone posting.

At least Robz voted for me.. I feel like town!Robz ought to be aware that he's not playing a good game, but the vote feels quite defensive.

[theorel]

Or...maybe mcmc's reaction is relevant because it is what inspired my scum-read, whereas I don't particularly remember anyone else's reaction.  But lending credence to a town-read is a whole different ball-game IMO than lending credence to a confirmed town player.  Regarding your conversation with TWM, I dunno, it didn't seem like there was a need to interject into it?  I think my points were already made, none of them changed.

i disagree that it is a different ballpark, the probability of a townread being town is p high. even a not-townread

i mean you asked me a question. did you think anything about the several walls of text i posted essentially in response to that question

...

I think I'm just failing to explain...you posted something not answering the question, I re-posed the question, and started a separate discussion with you and with space.  Then, you answered the question, and had a back-and-forth with TWM while I was not around.  When I returned I addressed the bits of conversation directly addressed to me.  I then went to bed, I didn't feel like there was stuff there that I had a response to that would add anything beyond what TWM was saying and what I had said previously.  To me your response was basically, "Yeah, I didn't have any good reasons"...and I don't have a response to that.  If I accuse someone of doing something scummy, and they say, "yep, that was scummy", I feel like that ends the conversation.  I do not feel like there is a point in adding to that.  At that point, the only question is whether other people think it's scummy enough for a lynch.  Now maybe you don't feel like that's what you said?  But that's how it read to me.

[theorel]

That was a super-scummy lynch of Robz.  I should have pushed my scum-read of Galz instead of getting distracted by the schadd thing.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Fuck guys?