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[Swowl]

Joseph - why do you think it is valuable to mass claim in this game?

[Joseph2302]

Joseph - why do you think it is valuable to mass claim in this game?

It's always a good idea to get information

[pingpongsam]

As much as I would like to Vote: witherweaver I must Vote: theorel.

2 reasons. 1 because he has the scummiest reaction to Joseph who is now obvtown. 2 because I don’t think I have played with theorel which statistically, probabilisticly, hoo doo, voo doo makes him way more likely to be scum.

[SpaceAnemone]

Joseph - why do you think it is valuable to mass claim in this game?

It's always a good idea to get information

What makes you think we won't just get 11 claimed VTs and a joke-claiming Joseph if we do a mass-claim now?

[SpaceAnemone]

statistically, probabilisticly, hoo doo, voo doo

I'll take the bait: Vote: PPS :-)

[SpaceAnemone]

In general, people aren't going to flip this game, which is going to make the gameplay different. Annoyingly, it's still not close enough to be that similar to the home-brew IRL no-flip Werewolf variant I used to play for me to have any useful extra insights.

I think it's going to make some kinds of scum hunting -- the ones I tend to rely on the most -- much harder, because mafia here are going to be more free than usual to throw their votes around without having to worry that town gets to know they've been tunneling towns and reading their partner as super-townie. Post-hoc wagon analysis gets super-tricky when it's all conditioned on whether we retrospectively think that X looked scummy or not, rather than knowing that a wagon on Y was mostly conf!town or something.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I agree with Mcmc, and I support his assertion without request for more evidence. He's correct. If you want more evidence, I suggest you look it up yourself.

I don't think that is how it works.

And to be clear, I am not suggesting or supporting mass claim. I am just skeptical of the assertion that those that push for mass claim are more likely to be scum. If you want to convince me of something you must provide the evidence. Until then I will remain skeptical. But I think we can all live with that if we must.

[Witherweaver]

vote: witherweaver

You have chosen... Poorly.

[Witherweaver]

I agree with Mcmc, and I support his assertion without request for more evidence. He's correct. If you want more evidence, I suggest you look it up yourself.

I don't think that is how it works.

And to be clear, I am not suggesting or supporting mass claim. I am just skeptical of the assertion that those that push for mass claim are more likely to be scum. If you want to convince me of something you must provide the evidence. Until then I will remain skeptical. But I think we can all live with that if we must.

It makes some sense because it's a way to appear active, productive, and that you have been thinking critically about the game, but doesn't actually take much work. I'd also generally think scum wants massclaim less, so they may want to appear to support it.

[Robz888]

I agree with Mcmc, and I support his assertion without request for more evidence. He's correct. If you want more evidence, I suggest you look it up yourself.

I don't think that is how it works.

And to be clear, I am not suggesting or supporting mass claim. I am just skeptical of the assertion that those that push for mass claim are more likely to be scum. If you want to convince me of something you must provide the evidence. Until then I will remain skeptical. But I think we can all live with that if we must.

Everybody who thinks pushing massclaim = not scummy reeeeeeally needs to look back at Smash Bros mafia. Scum totally pushed an early massclaim because it was in scum’s benefit while also being perceived as something town does. And Joseph was very muc in that game, he was the Day 1 lynch. So no I’m not awarding any town points to Joseph here.

[Robz888]

I would have to think harder about whether early massclaim could be good for town, but the default assumption should be no, and rushing into early mass claim has very recently been a total disaster for town, and a really obvious one in hindsight.

[Witherweaver]

I would have to think harder about whether early massclaim could be good for town, but the default assumption should be no, and rushing into early mass claim has very recently been a total disaster for town, and a really obvious one in hindsight.

My first reaction is that it would be bad.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I would have to think harder about whether early massclaim could be good for town, but the default assumption should be no, and rushing into early mass claim has very recently been a total disaster for town, and a really obvious one in hindsight.

My first reaction is that it would be bad.

I think the only possibility for benefit would be PR claiming and non-PR claiming. But that still seems bad, but not as bad as a full mass claim.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

And one example from a sample of 100+ is still not convincing.

[Swowl]

Joseph - why do you think it is valuable to mass claim in this game?

It's always a good idea to get information

I mean I guess. But wouldn't this give skum more information than it would give us? I just don't see like any incentive to do this at all. I need to re read how the flips work, but I believe this would be another point against such an early organized claim.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

The two benefits I can see are:

Town directing vig kills, which seems a bit better than vig deciding for themselves and not accidentally shooting other PRs

Knowing that when a PR is NK that they were a PR.

Both have limited utility I think compared to scum knowing which PRs to kill. It is also worth pointing out that claims reduce the information that town can get from analyzing night kills as the kills become obvious for mafia.

[schadd]

massclaim is bad. depending on whether sk and scum kill differently (which nobody should talk in detail about but i think is likely) and whether roleblocker hits, we would have 2 PRs dead d2 and the next, which is worse than any sort of problem with being unclaimed

it doesn't give us information for lynching purposes either since we weren't going to lynch the PRs anyway

vote: witherweaver

You have chosen... Poorly.

i agree with you that i am town

[Joseph2302]

massclaim is bad. depending on whether sk and scum kill differently (which nobody should talk in detail about but i think is likely) and whether roleblocker hits, we would have 2 PRs dead d2 and the next, which is worse than any sort of problem with being unclaimed

it doesn't give us information for lynching purposes either since we weren't going to lynch the PRs anyway

vote: witherweaver

You have chosen... Poorly.

i agree with you that i am town

Fine let's not mass claim just yet then.
It was just an idea to try and spice the game up

[Joseph2302]

Although the no flips is going to be interesting, as we won't know whether there's 2 or 3 factions left, whether we're at LYLO/MYLO etc.....

[schadd]

It was just an idea to try and spice the game up

maaaaan

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Although the no flips is going to be interesting, as we won't know whether there's 2 or 3 factions left, whether we're at LYLO/MYLO etc.....

We get flips at lynches though. So let's just correctly lynch?

[SpaceAnemone]

Although the no flips is going to be interesting, as we won't know whether there's 2 or 3 factions left, whether we're at LYLO/MYLO etc.....

We get flips at lynches though. So let's just correctly lynch?

Wow, I had somehow entirely overlooked that.

[SpaceAnemone]

It was just an idea to try and spice the game up

maaaaan

I'm not even surprised... this is the same player who repeats the not-pro-town meta of claiming SK every game.

[SpaceAnemone]

Town directing vig kills, which seems a bit better than vig deciding for themselves and not accidentally shooting other PRs

Aren't you usually absolutely belligerently dead against town trying to direct PRs in any way?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Town directing vig kills, which seems a bit better than vig deciding for themselves and not accidentally shooting other PRs

Aren't you usually absolutely belligerently dead against town trying to direct PRs in any way?

I am typically set against Players of unknown alignment give suggestions. Even then vigs seem slightly different. But mostly it is the not shooting other PRs on accident that is beneficial. In terms of mass claiming, that is.