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Author Topic: M114: Wheel of Time II - Game Over! Town Wins!  (Read 68289 times)

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EFHW

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M114: Wheel of Time II - Game Over! Town Wins!
« on: March 06, 2018, 12:54:00 pm »

Welcome to M114: Wheel of Time II!

Mod: EFHW

This is an open setup for 12 players. Flavor is based on the book series Wheel of Time.

Players:
1. Robz888 Lynched Day 2 Padan Fain, an "Aes Sedai" Serial Killer
2. Joseph2302
3. schadd
4. SpaceAnemone
5. TheWineMerchant
6. Theorel
7. Galzria Killed N2
8. DatSwan Killed N1 Alviarin of the Aes Sedai Black Ajah
9. Awaclus Killed N1
10. mcmcsalot Lynched Day 1 Al'Lan Mandragoran. He walked in the Light
11. Witherweaver
12. pingpongsam

Spectators : e, iguanaiguana, Ghacob, ashersky, Jimmmmm

Day starts:
Day One Start
Day Two Start
Day Three Start

General rules

The Golden Rule:


Please remember that this is a game and your main objective is to have fun!  Be considerate of each other, don’t get personal, and enjoy the game. Please read The Civility Pledge before signing up for any mafia game on this site.  If you have not /pledged there, you cannot play. Excessive personal attacks or uncivil behavior may be dealt with by modifiers or modkills.

1. General Gameplay and Etiquette:

1. You may not quote information (either real or fabricated) from any game-related source other than the thread you are posting in. This means no quotes from PMs and no quotes from QTs in the main thread or in another QT. Paraphrasing is acceptable. If you are unsure whether a post is legal, please ask the moderator before posting.
2. There is to be NO personal communication outside of the forum postings and the QTs specifically designed for this purpose.
3. As a general rule you should aim for one post every 24 hours, minimum, to keep the game moving.

2. Voting, Deadlines, and Player Death:

1. Day phases will last 7 days, Night lasts 48 hours.
2. A simple majority (rounded up) of all living members must agree on one person for a lynch to occur prior to deadline.
3. Once you have reached a simple majority no further unvoting will change someone’s fate. Further votes will also be ignored.
4. Once a player is lynched the game enters twilight until the mod locks the thread; all players including the one who was lynched may continue to post during twilight.
5. If the deadline is hit without a player reaching the majority of votes, a no-lynch will occur.
6. Please submit votes as: Vote: PlayerName.  Votes may not be counted if they are not bold or do not follow this syntax. Obvious abbreviations or nicknames will be counted so long as they are unambiguous.
7. Please submit vote revocations Unvote. Unvotes are not necessary before changing votes.
8. You may Vote: No Lynch - a simple majority of these vote types are required to send the game to Night phase without a lynch.
9. Once you are killed (either via lynch or night kill) you may no longer post in the game or in Quicktopics. This means that you do not even get a “Bah” post. The dead in this game are silent.
11. If the thread is locked, you may not post.  Threads can be locked for various reasons, but no matter what the reason, you may not post.  The mod may forget to lock the thread, but if they say it is locked, it is still locked.

3. Miscellaneous/Mechanics:

1. Bold, purple text is reserved for the mod.  No invisible/small text is allowed, nor is cryptography.
2. If you have an issue/problem with the game, please discuss this in your role QT.  Do not post issues/complaints in the game thread.
3. The Mods may make mistakes - please point out any mistakes gently.  Mistakes will be corrected where possible, but sometimes mistakes are made that cannot be reversed.  These will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. Please bold all requests to the Mods so that they don’t get missed.
5. Prods of missing players will be issued upon request after 24 hours of no activity.  A prodded player has 24 hours to respond or risks replacement. A player who has been prodded 2 times is subject to replacement without further notice.  If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 48-hour period please post a notice to that effect in the thread.  Whether a prior announcement means that the missing player will not be replaced is up to the mod.
6. Please do not discuss ongoing games, it can unintentionally affect the other game. Do not discuss this game in any thread that is not directly related to it.
7. Rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, which may include modkill(s) if needed.
8. Players who discover they are too busy to play in a game or want to leave the game for civility issues are not allowed to officially /out in the thread.  A request to /out must only be done via a post in the role QT. Please do not use this as a manipulation technique.  (Note players may continue to threaten to /out or imply that they might as long as it does not include an official request). Requests to /out are final once submitted. There will be no /outing and then /inning back into the game so make sure that when you /out you have thought it through and really want to do it. Players that can't be replaced will simply be mod-killed. Whether your request to /out will lead to replacement or a modkill is up to the mod's discretion.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2018, 06:48:32 pm by EFHW »
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EFHW

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2018, 12:54:29 pm »

Wheel of Time II

Players:   12

This game is based on the Donner Party setup. Instead of Cannibals, we will have Aes Sedai.

Setup:

2 Aes Sedai Black Ajah
1 Aes Sedai Serial Killer
1 Aes Sedai Vigilante
1 Foxhead Amulet (Flavor Cop)
1 Shield (roleblocker)
6 People who walk in the Light (Town)

Darkfriends (those who don't walk in the light) will receive safe fakeclaim flavor names.

Unique Mechanics:

Daystart

Mafia have daytalk

The town cannot no-lynch. I'm removing this rule because I think non-majority lynches really hurt the game.

Aes Sedai kills (of any alignment): When an Aes Sedai night-kills someone, they take the body and put it in their stasis box, resulting in no role/alignment reveal to the town for that kill. The Aes Sedai who performed the kill learns the role/alignment reveal via their result PM. If an Aes Sedai night-kills another Aes Sedai, they take all of the bodies their target had, learning all the role/alignment information their target knew. This will include their target's night-kill target from that same night, if applicable. If more than one Aes Sedai night-kill the same target, they will all learn the target's role/alignment information. They will not learn that their target was killed multiple times. If two Aes Sedai night-kill each other, and are not in turn night-killed by yet another Aes Sedai, their role/alignment information, and that of all the bodies they possessed, is revealed to the town. The Aes Sedai mechanic has no effect on lynches. The role/alignment of the lynchee is always revealed to the town. If an Aes Sedai is lynched, the role/alignment information of all their bodies is also revealed.

Role PM's

Quote
Aes Sedai Black Ajah
Welcome, [Player Name]. You are one of the Aes Sedai Black Ajah, along with your partner, [Player Name].

Abilities:

Factional communication: At any time in the game, you may talk with your partner here [QuickTopic link].

Aes Sedai nightkill: Each night phase, one of you or your partner may perform the factional nightkill. You will receive back a result in the shared QT indicating success or failure, and in the case of success you will receive the target's role/alignment information. If they were an Aes Sedai, you will receive the role/alignment of all bodies they possessed when they were killed. The role/alignment of your night-kill targets is not shared with the town.

Win condition:

You win when all other killers are dead and you control 50% of the town or nothing can prevent this from occurring.

Quote
Aes Sedai Serial Killer
Welcome, [Player Name]. You are Padan Fain, an Aes Sedai Serial Killer.

While you are not technically an Aes Sedai, your transformations by the Dark Lord and Mordeth have given you strange powers to sense your targets and your dagger kills with just a touch.

Abilities:

Aes Sedai nightkill: Each night phase, you may perform your nightkill. You will receive back a result indicating success or failure, and in the case of success you will receive the target's role/alignment information. If they were an Aes Sedai, you will receive the role/alignment of all bodies they possessed when they were killed. The role/alignment of your night-kill targets is not shared with the town.

One-shot Night-kill Immunity: The first night you are targeted for a night-kill (even if you're targetted more than once), you will not die. You are not notified that this has occurred.

One-shot Roleblocker Immunity: The first night you are targeted by the Roleblocker, the roleblock on you will fail. You are not notified that this has occurred.

Win condition:

You win when you are the last player alive or nothing can prevent this from occurring.

Quote
Aes Sedai Vigilante
Welcome, [Player Name]. You are Egwene Al'Vere, the Amyrlin Seat. You are an Aes Sedai Vigilante.

Abilities:

Aes Sedai nightkill: Each night phase, you may perform your nightkill. You will receive back a result indicating success or failure, and in the case of success you will receive the target's role/alignment information. If they were an Aes Sedai, you will receive the role/alignment of all bodies they possessed when they were killed. The role/alignment of your night-kill targets is not shared with the town.

Win condition:

You win when all threats to the town are eliminated and there is at least one town-aligned player alive.

Quote
Town Foxhead Amulet
Welcome, [Player Name], you are Mat Cauthon, the Town Flavor Cop. The amulet you received from the Aelfinn allows you to detect when someone channels the One Power.

Abilities:

Each night phase, you may investigate one player by PM'ing the mod. You will receive results in the form of Aes Sedai, Not Aes Sedai or No Result.

Win condition:

You win when all threats to the town are eliminated and there is at least one town-aligned player alive.

Quote
Town Shield
Welcome, [Player Name], you are Rand Al'Thor, the Dragon Reborn and Town Roleblocker. You would think the Dragon Reborn would have a more exalted role, but the Car'a'carn is no more than another chief. As the strongest channeller in town, you have the ability to weave a shield cutting another channeller off from the One Power.

Abilities:

Each night you may choose to roleblocker a player, which will prevent them from using an action. The only exception to this is if you target the Serial Killer - they will bypass your block the first time this happens.

Win condition:

You win when all threats to the town are eliminated and there is at least one town-aligned player alive.

Quote
Those who walk in the light
Welcome, [Player Name], you are a Vanilla Townie.

Abilities:

Your weapon is your vote, you have no night actions.

Win condition:

You win when all threats to the town are eliminated and there is at least one town-aligned player alive.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2018, 07:33:28 pm by EFHW »
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Robz888

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2018, 01:02:58 pm »

/in
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I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.

Robz888

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2018, 01:08:44 pm »

This setup looks awesome, by the way.

Does the Aes Sedai kill result for the Black Ajah go in the shared mafia QT, or this information only given to the one that performed the kill?
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I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.

Joseph2302

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2018, 01:56:06 pm »

/in
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Mafia Stats: (correct as of 2017)
Town: 22 games, 8 wins
Scum: 5 games, 3 wins

Joseph2302

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2018, 01:56:19 pm »

And also, I'm the SK
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Mafia Stats: (correct as of 2017)
Town: 22 games, 8 wins
Scum: 5 games, 3 wins

schadd

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2018, 02:34:15 pm »

in

i would like to not join so i can replace in because efhw has replaced into like two of my games but idk if anyone is gonna replace out
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I thought you thought it was a slip because I said 'Jake's partners' instead of 'Roadrunner7671.'

EFHW

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2018, 03:17:44 pm »

This setup looks awesome, by the way.

Does the Aes Sedai kill result for the Black Ajah go in the shared mafia QT, or this information only given to the one that performed the kill?
Thanks! The result will go to the shared qt.
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SpaceAnemone

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2018, 07:16:24 pm »

/in :-)
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Congratulations! Your SpaceAnemone evolved into UniverseAnemone!
Town games: M84(L), M85(W), M86(L), M87(W), M88(L), M90(L), M92(W), M94(L), M97(L), M99(W), M100(L), M104(W), M107(W), M110(L), M112(L), RMM37(L), RMM40(D), RMM41(L), RMM43(L), RMM47(W), ZM23(W).
Scum games: M89(D), M108(L), NM8(W&MVP), NM10(L)   Mod: NM9, RMM38, RMM42.   Pronouns: they/them

The_Wine_Merchant

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2018, 07:29:15 pm »

i'll play
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Wins: M91, M96, NM10, M98, M102, M105
Losses: M100, M103, M104, M109, M112

MVPs: M91, M96
Win percentage: 54.5 (6/11)

theorel

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2018, 09:28:09 pm »

/in
Yay, Wheel of Time :)
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Galzria

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2018, 10:27:32 pm »

Strange setup. At least it's known though. I like that. I'm not alive in any other games, so /shrug.

/in
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2018, 11:58:02 pm »

sweet.

/in
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Jesus how did i fuck that up
real good. That’s how
Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

schadd

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2018, 12:43:55 am »

we have 8/12 people from gilmore girls lmfoao
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2018, 01:37:55 am »

/in
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2.71828.....

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II
« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2018, 02:10:02 am »

/tag
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mcmcsalot

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - 3 Spots left!
« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2018, 11:12:14 am »

/in!
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

mcmcsalot

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - 3 Spots left!
« Reply #17 on: March 07, 2018, 11:36:43 am »

Setup looks fun but scary difficult for town. I like the power of the sk and with a roleblocker to cover the tracks of oh I shot X and they didn't die means sk. I think I actually want to be sk for once.
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

Robz888

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - 3 Spots left!
« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2018, 11:42:55 am »

Setup looks fun but scary difficult for town. I like the power of the sk and with a roleblocker to cover the tracks of oh I shot X and they didn't die means sk. I think I actually want to be sk for once.

Yes but all multiball setups are inherently difficult for scum. SK looks reasonably strong here, I agree.
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I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.

mcmcsalot

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - 3 Spots left!
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2018, 11:45:38 am »

Setup looks fun but scary difficult for town. I like the power of the sk and with a roleblocker to cover the tracks of oh I shot X and they didn't die means sk. I think I actually want to be sk for once.

Yes but all multiball setups are inherently difficult for scum. SK looks reasonably strong here, I agree.

Oh yea I didn't think of the basic sk can kill mafia thing rescind my scary statement, it just looks fun!
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

iguanaiguana

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - 2 Spots left!
« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2018, 11:56:05 am »

My self imposed one game at a time rule sucks: (

/tag
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Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - 2 Spots left!
« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2018, 12:33:24 pm »

I think I have to

\in

because of the flavor.

I should point out that I may have questionable access over small periods in the next month or so.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - 2 Spots left!
« Reply #22 on: March 07, 2018, 01:24:29 pm »

My self imposed one game at a time rule sucks: (

/tag

Rules were made be broken.
Logged
Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

pingpongsam

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - 1 Spot left!
« Reply #23 on: March 08, 2018, 11:20:21 am »

/in
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You are the brashest scum player on f.ds.

EFHW

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - 1 Spot left!
« Reply #24 on: March 08, 2018, 12:38:07 pm »

Yay! PM's will go out by tonight.
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schadd

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - 1 Spot left!
« Reply #25 on: March 08, 2018, 12:38:24 pm »

wicked gnarly rad!
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EFHW

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - 1 Spot left!
« Reply #26 on: March 08, 2018, 12:40:30 pm »

There is no N0 because the Black Ajah has day chat, so Day 1 will start as soon as everyone has confirmed.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - 1 Spot left!
« Reply #27 on: March 08, 2018, 01:23:05 pm »

Tag
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f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

Ghacob

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - 1 Spot left!
« Reply #28 on: March 08, 2018, 02:03:30 pm »

/tag, happy to see this get off the ground so quick!
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Full!
« Reply #29 on: March 08, 2018, 02:16:19 pm »

PM's have been sent. Please confirm!

Thread Locked
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - FULL!
« Reply #30 on: March 10, 2018, 12:14:53 pm »

Jimmmmm will be replacing DatSwan. We'll start once he confirms.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - FULL!
« Reply #31 on: March 10, 2018, 07:27:08 pm »

DatSwan has reappeared! Thanks to Jimmmmm for volunteering to sub and then letting him back in the game.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - FULL!
« Reply #32 on: March 10, 2018, 07:31:10 pm »

The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes again. In one Age, called the Third Age by some, an Age yet to come, an Age long past, a wind rose above the virtual pages of forum.dominionstrategy.com The wind was not the beginning. There are neither beginnings nor endings to the turning of the Wheel of Time. But it was a beginning ...

Nynaeve grumbled to herself and pulled on her braid. It was an effort not to snap when anyone spoke to her, and in fact people seemed to be giving her a wide berth. There were 12 of them together, caught under a violet dome in Tel'aran'rhiod. Three were Darkfriends disguised by the Mirror of Mists. The fate of the world was at stake - if Rand didn't reseal the bore, the Dark Lord would destroy the wheel and there would be no more pattern. She glared at Rand's back - this was all his fault of course, the wool-headed lummox!

Day One Start


Vote Count 1.0

Not voting (12): Awaclus, DatSwan, Galzria, Joseph2303, mcmcsalot, pingpongsam, Robz888, schadd, SpaceAnemone, Theorel, The_Wine_Merchant, Witherweaver.

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day ends Sunday, March 18th at 4:45 p.m. Forum time.

THREAD UNLOCKED
« Last Edit: March 10, 2018, 07:42:11 pm by EFHW »
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EFHW

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - FULL!
« Reply #33 on: March 10, 2018, 07:31:56 pm »

Anyone who wants to can submit flavor text in the voice of a character.

Darkfriends have been given safeclaim flavor names.
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Joseph2302

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #34 on: March 10, 2018, 07:46:48 pm »

I'm the SK
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #35 on: March 10, 2018, 07:47:27 pm »

And Vote: Space
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #36 on: March 10, 2018, 07:48:12 pm »

Also I suggest a full mass roleclaim right now. If 5 people don't object in the next 5 hours, then I will claim my role
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The_Wine_Merchant

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #37 on: March 10, 2018, 07:54:40 pm »

Also I suggest a full mass roleclaim right now. If 5 people don't object in the next 5 hours, then I will claim my role
You already did? Didn't you?

Vote: joseph
Logged
Wins: M91, M96, NM10, M98, M102, M105
Losses: M100, M103, M104, M109, M112

MVPs: M91, M96
Win percentage: 54.5 (6/11)

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #38 on: March 10, 2018, 08:10:06 pm »

Also I suggest a full mass roleclaim right now. If 5 people don't object in the next 5 hours, then I will claim my role
sounds bad


vote: rob z 888 all aboard!
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #39 on: March 10, 2018, 10:06:13 pm »

vote: joseph the people claiming massclaim recently have more often than not been scum.
Logged
Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #40 on: March 10, 2018, 10:15:45 pm »

Also I suggest a full mass roleclaim right now. If 5 people don't object in the next 5 hours, then I will claim my role
This is dumb, don't do it.  While pushing for mass-claim has been scum in a couple recent games, this particular methodology seems more geared towards pushing us out of RVS into real-reads voting, so I'm tentatively reading joseph as town.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #41 on: March 10, 2018, 10:16:20 pm »

Also, hey everybody! :)
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #42 on: March 10, 2018, 10:58:07 pm »

Also I suggest a full mass roleclaim right now. If 5 people don't object in the next 5 hours, then I will claim my role
This is dumb, don't do it.  While pushing for mass-claim has been scum in a couple recent games, this particular methodology seems more geared towards pushing us out of RVS into real-reads voting, so I'm tentatively reading joseph as town.

This is why scum keeps doing this
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #43 on: March 10, 2018, 11:13:19 pm »

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #44 on: March 10, 2018, 11:38:14 pm »

vote: joseph the people claiming massclaim recently have more often than not been scum.
Fake news? I can only think of iguana in Lost.
Logged
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Losses: M100, M103, M104, M109, M112

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #45 on: March 11, 2018, 01:18:38 am »

vote: joseph the people claiming massclaim recently have more often than not been scum.
Fake news? I can only think of iguana in Lost.
Robz in smash bro’s, I’ll get other examples if forced.
Logged
Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #46 on: March 11, 2018, 01:36:00 am »

Hi guys, I'm not a one-shot PGO.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #47 on: March 11, 2018, 01:38:50 am »

vote: joseph the people claiming massclaim recently have more often than not been scum.
Fake news? I can only think of iguana in Lost.
Robz in smash bro’s, I’ll get other examples if forced.

Consider yourself forced.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #48 on: March 11, 2018, 01:47:56 am »

I agree with Mcmc, and I support his assertion without request for more evidence. He's correct. If you want more evidence, I suggest you look it up yourself.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #49 on: March 11, 2018, 03:12:57 am »

vote: witherweaver
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #50 on: March 11, 2018, 05:22:15 am »

Joseph - why do you think it is valuable to mass claim in this game?
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Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #51 on: March 11, 2018, 05:24:10 am »

Joseph - why do you think it is valuable to mass claim in this game?
It's always a good idea to get information
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #52 on: March 11, 2018, 08:46:54 am »

As much as I would like to Vote: witherweaver I must Vote: theorel.

2 reasons. 1 because he has the scummiest reaction to Joseph who is now obvtown. 2 because I don’t think I have played with theorel which statistically, probabilisticly, hoo doo, voo doo makes him way more likely to be scum.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #53 on: March 11, 2018, 09:15:51 am »

Joseph - why do you think it is valuable to mass claim in this game?
It's always a good idea to get information

What makes you think we won't just get 11 claimed VTs and a joke-claiming Joseph if we do a mass-claim now?
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Town games: M84(L), M85(W), M86(L), M87(W), M88(L), M90(L), M92(W), M94(L), M97(L), M99(W), M100(L), M104(W), M107(W), M110(L), M112(L), RMM37(L), RMM40(D), RMM41(L), RMM43(L), RMM47(W), ZM23(W).
Scum games: M89(D), M108(L), NM8(W&MVP), NM10(L)   Mod: NM9, RMM38, RMM42.   Pronouns: they/them

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #54 on: March 11, 2018, 09:20:06 am »

statistically, probabilisticly, hoo doo, voo doo

I'll take the bait: Vote: PPS :-)
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Congratulations! Your SpaceAnemone evolved into UniverseAnemone!
Town games: M84(L), M85(W), M86(L), M87(W), M88(L), M90(L), M92(W), M94(L), M97(L), M99(W), M100(L), M104(W), M107(W), M110(L), M112(L), RMM37(L), RMM40(D), RMM41(L), RMM43(L), RMM47(W), ZM23(W).
Scum games: M89(D), M108(L), NM8(W&MVP), NM10(L)   Mod: NM9, RMM38, RMM42.   Pronouns: they/them

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #55 on: March 11, 2018, 09:46:10 am »

In general, people aren't going to flip this game, which is going to make the gameplay different. Annoyingly, it's still not close enough to be that similar to the home-brew IRL no-flip Werewolf variant I used to play for me to have any useful extra insights.

I think it's going to make some kinds of scum hunting -- the ones I tend to rely on the most -- much harder, because mafia here are going to be more free than usual to throw their votes around without having to worry that town gets to know they've been tunneling towns and reading their partner as super-townie. Post-hoc wagon analysis gets super-tricky when it's all conditioned on whether we retrospectively think that X looked scummy or not, rather than knowing that a wagon on Y was mostly conf!town or something.
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Town games: M84(L), M85(W), M86(L), M87(W), M88(L), M90(L), M92(W), M94(L), M97(L), M99(W), M100(L), M104(W), M107(W), M110(L), M112(L), RMM37(L), RMM40(D), RMM41(L), RMM43(L), RMM47(W), ZM23(W).
Scum games: M89(D), M108(L), NM8(W&MVP), NM10(L)   Mod: NM9, RMM38, RMM42.   Pronouns: they/them

The_Wine_Merchant

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #56 on: March 11, 2018, 11:03:03 am »

I agree with Mcmc, and I support his assertion without request for more evidence. He's correct. If you want more evidence, I suggest you look it up yourself.
I don't think that is how it works.

And to be clear, I am not suggesting or supporting mass claim. I am just skeptical of the assertion that those that push for mass claim are more likely to be scum. If you want to convince me of something you must provide the evidence. Until then I will remain skeptical. But I think we can all live with that if we must.
Logged
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Losses: M100, M103, M104, M109, M112

MVPs: M91, M96
Win percentage: 54.5 (6/11)

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #57 on: March 11, 2018, 11:24:44 am »

vote: witherweaver

You have chosen... Poorly.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #58 on: March 11, 2018, 11:28:10 am »

I agree with Mcmc, and I support his assertion without request for more evidence. He's correct. If you want more evidence, I suggest you look it up yourself.
I don't think that is how it works.

And to be clear, I am not suggesting or supporting mass claim. I am just skeptical of the assertion that those that push for mass claim are more likely to be scum. If you want to convince me of something you must provide the evidence. Until then I will remain skeptical. But I think we can all live with that if we must.

It makes some sense because it's a way to appear active, productive, and that you have been thinking critically about the game, but doesn't actually take much work. I'd also generally think scum wants massclaim less, so they may want to appear to support it.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #59 on: March 11, 2018, 11:38:46 am »

I agree with Mcmc, and I support his assertion without request for more evidence. He's correct. If you want more evidence, I suggest you look it up yourself.
I don't think that is how it works.

And to be clear, I am not suggesting or supporting mass claim. I am just skeptical of the assertion that those that push for mass claim are more likely to be scum. If you want to convince me of something you must provide the evidence. Until then I will remain skeptical. But I think we can all live with that if we must.

Everybody who thinks pushing massclaim = not scummy reeeeeeally needs to look back at Smash Bros mafia. Scum totally pushed an early massclaim because it was in scum’s benefit while also being perceived as something town does. And Joseph was very muc in that game, he was the Day 1 lynch. So no I’m not awarding any town points to Joseph here.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #60 on: March 11, 2018, 11:40:36 am »

I would have to think harder about whether early massclaim could be good for town, but the default assumption should be no, and rushing into early mass claim has very recently been a total disaster for town, and a really obvious one in hindsight.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #61 on: March 11, 2018, 12:57:30 pm »

I would have to think harder about whether early massclaim could be good for town, but the default assumption should be no, and rushing into early mass claim has very recently been a total disaster for town, and a really obvious one in hindsight.

My first reaction is that it would be bad.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #62 on: March 11, 2018, 01:04:48 pm »

I would have to think harder about whether early massclaim could be good for town, but the default assumption should be no, and rushing into early mass claim has very recently been a total disaster for town, and a really obvious one in hindsight.

My first reaction is that it would be bad.
I think the only possibility for benefit would be PR claiming and non-PR claiming. But that still seems bad, but not as bad as a full mass claim.
Logged
Wins: M91, M96, NM10, M98, M102, M105
Losses: M100, M103, M104, M109, M112

MVPs: M91, M96
Win percentage: 54.5 (6/11)

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #63 on: March 11, 2018, 01:07:51 pm »

And one example from a sample of 100+ is still not convincing.
Logged
Wins: M91, M96, NM10, M98, M102, M105
Losses: M100, M103, M104, M109, M112

MVPs: M91, M96
Win percentage: 54.5 (6/11)

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #64 on: March 11, 2018, 01:44:29 pm »

Joseph - why do you think it is valuable to mass claim in this game?
It's always a good idea to get information

I mean I guess. But wouldn't this give skum more information than it would give us? I just don't see like any incentive to do this at all. I need to re read how the flips work, but I believe this would be another point against such an early organized claim.
Logged
Jesus how did i fuck that up
real good. That’s how
Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #65 on: March 11, 2018, 01:51:53 pm »

The two benefits I can see are:

Town directing vig kills, which seems a bit better than vig deciding for themselves and not accidentally shooting other PRs

Knowing that when a PR is NK that they were a PR.

Both have limited utility I think compared to scum knowing which PRs to kill. It is also worth pointing out that claims reduce the information that town can get from analyzing night kills as the kills become obvious for mafia.
Logged
Wins: M91, M96, NM10, M98, M102, M105
Losses: M100, M103, M104, M109, M112

MVPs: M91, M96
Win percentage: 54.5 (6/11)

schadd

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #66 on: March 11, 2018, 03:17:25 pm »

massclaim is bad. depending on whether sk and scum kill differently (which nobody should talk in detail about but i think is likely) and whether roleblocker hits, we would have 2 PRs dead d2 and the next, which is worse than any sort of problem with being unclaimed

it doesn't give us information for lynching purposes either since we weren't going to lynch the PRs anyway

vote: witherweaver

You have chosen... Poorly.
i agree with you that i am town
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Joseph2302

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #67 on: March 11, 2018, 03:28:29 pm »

massclaim is bad. depending on whether sk and scum kill differently (which nobody should talk in detail about but i think is likely) and whether roleblocker hits, we would have 2 PRs dead d2 and the next, which is worse than any sort of problem with being unclaimed

it doesn't give us information for lynching purposes either since we weren't going to lynch the PRs anyway

vote: witherweaver

You have chosen... Poorly.
i agree with you that i am town
Fine let's not mass claim just yet then.
It was just an idea to try and spice the game up
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Mafia Stats: (correct as of 2017)
Town: 22 games, 8 wins
Scum: 5 games, 3 wins

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #68 on: March 11, 2018, 03:29:15 pm »

Although the no flips is going to be interesting, as we won't know whether there's 2 or 3 factions left, whether we're at LYLO/MYLO etc.....
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schadd

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #69 on: March 11, 2018, 03:51:45 pm »

It was just an idea to try and spice the game up
maaaaan
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #70 on: March 11, 2018, 04:12:25 pm »

Although the no flips is going to be interesting, as we won't know whether there's 2 or 3 factions left, whether we're at LYLO/MYLO etc.....
We get flips at lynches though. So let's just correctly lynch?
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #71 on: March 11, 2018, 05:06:03 pm »

Although the no flips is going to be interesting, as we won't know whether there's 2 or 3 factions left, whether we're at LYLO/MYLO etc.....
We get flips at lynches though. So let's just correctly lynch?

Wow, I had somehow entirely overlooked that.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #72 on: March 11, 2018, 05:08:23 pm »

It was just an idea to try and spice the game up
maaaaan

I'm not even surprised... this is the same player who repeats the not-pro-town meta of claiming SK every game.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #73 on: March 11, 2018, 05:10:17 pm »

Town directing vig kills, which seems a bit better than vig deciding for themselves and not accidentally shooting other PRs

Aren't you usually absolutely belligerently dead against town trying to direct PRs in any way?
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #74 on: March 11, 2018, 05:23:18 pm »

Town directing vig kills, which seems a bit better than vig deciding for themselves and not accidentally shooting other PRs

Aren't you usually absolutely belligerently dead against town trying to direct PRs in any way?
I am typically set against Players of unknown alignment give suggestions. Even then vigs seem slightly different. But mostly it is the not shooting other PRs on accident that is beneficial. In terms of mass claiming, that is.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #75 on: March 11, 2018, 06:04:33 pm »

Town directing vig kills, which seems a bit better than vig deciding for themselves and not accidentally shooting other PRs

Aren't you usually absolutely belligerently dead against town trying to direct PRs in any way?
I am typically set against Players of unknown alignment give suggestions. Even then vigs seem slightly different. But mostly it is the not shooting other PRs on accident that is beneficial. In terms of mass claiming, that is.

Haha.. yeah, okay, I do still disagree with you, then. I was worried you were changing your tune too much! I think all I agreed with you on was that given the premise that we know who all the town PRs are then it's helpful to be able to direct the vig... but that premise is exceedingly unlikely because I just don't see a massclaim not being messed with by scum, and then I don't see town surviving very long if there are two competing scum factions eager to snipe out our PRs.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #76 on: March 11, 2018, 06:16:18 pm »

Town directing vig kills, which seems a bit better than vig deciding for themselves and not accidentally shooting other PRs

Aren't you usually absolutely belligerently dead against town trying to direct PRs in any way?
I am typically set against Players of unknown alignment give suggestions. Even then vigs seem slightly different. But mostly it is the not shooting other PRs on accident that is beneficial. In terms of mass claiming, that is.

Haha.. yeah, okay, I do still disagree with you, then. I was worried you were changing your tune too much! I think all I agreed with you on was that given the premise that we know who all the town PRs are then it's helpful to be able to direct the vig... but that premise is exceedingly unlikely because I just don't see a massclaim not being messed with by scum, and then I don't see town surviving very long if there are two competing scum factions eager to snipe out our PRs.
I think you do agree with me? I am not in favor of mass claiming. That is the lone benefit, but it isn't a vey good one given the poor trade off
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #77 on: March 11, 2018, 06:17:47 pm »

It was just an idea to try and spice the game up
maaaaan

I'm not even surprised... this is the same player who repeats the not-pro-town meta of claiming SK every game.
Well the game when I am the SK, no-one will expect it.
By the way, that game is this one, as I'm SK here
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Galzria

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #78 on: March 11, 2018, 06:20:22 pm »

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Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #79 on: March 11, 2018, 06:37:16 pm »

Okie dokie so nothing going on quite yet.

Joseph brought up the claim right?
I gotta be honest I don't see how anyone could see the upside. I want to believe that it was just a thing to get things going, but like... given the set up and the withholding of information when skum kills, it goes:
1) we claim
2) PRs are isolated
3) skum kills PRs
4) Town never gets verification of the flip (if I understand the set up correctly).

How could a claim be good? - just seems skummy to bring up.
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Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #80 on: March 11, 2018, 06:40:06 pm »

Although the no flips is going to be interesting, as we won't know whether there's 2 or 3 factions left, whether we're at LYLO/MYLO etc.....
We get flips at lynches though. So let's just correctly lynch?

Oh. Reading is cool. That makes a huge difference.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #81 on: March 11, 2018, 06:41:38 pm »

I guess that makes a massclaim less bad.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #82 on: March 11, 2018, 06:43:17 pm »

I think you do agree with me? I am not in favor of mass claiming. That is the lone benefit, but it isn't a vey good one given the poor trade off

Sure, I agree with you about not being in favour of mass-claiming. But I also tend to think that PRs "owe" town their power, and ought to be at least a bit accountable and willing to take town advice, at least in as far as they can discern who town is. IIRC you've disagreed with me strongly on that in the past, so when you mentioned steering town PRs now, I was a bit surprised.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #83 on: March 11, 2018, 07:10:30 pm »

It was just an idea to try and spice the game up
maaaaan

I'm not even surprised... this is the same player who repeats the not-pro-town meta of claiming SK every game.
Well the game when I am the SK, no-one will expect it.
By the way, that game is this one, as I'm SK here

I know you are lying because I am the SK!
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #84 on: March 11, 2018, 09:26:48 pm »

Also I suggest a full mass roleclaim right now. If 5 people don't object in the next 5 hours, then I will claim my role
This is dumb, don't do it.  While pushing for mass-claim has been scum in a couple recent games, this particular methodology seems more geared towards pushing us out of RVS into real-reads voting, so I'm tentatively reading joseph as town.

This is why scum keeps doing this
I'm not sure what "this" is?  I don't think Robz was town-read for pushing a mass-claim, though I could be misremembering.  I don't think scum is generally in favor of pushing us out of RVS?  Since providing real-sounding fake analysis is definitely harder than providing no reasoning at all and bantering around.

And although it does invite theory discussion, I think the particular way that he stated it pushes us more into taking sides and providing reads.  His statement is provocative, and I still think scum tends away from provocative statements in general.  Yes, that means that I'm potentially letting scum players get away with them (like in Gilmore Girls), but I just think scum doesn't like to make themselves the center of attention unnecessarily.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #85 on: March 11, 2018, 09:43:25 pm »

I think scum has gotten away with pushing scummy things early and getting town read for it because it’s “pushing us out of rvs” but I think just posting ridiculous things like massclaiming in this setup should not be given towncred
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #86 on: March 11, 2018, 10:02:17 pm »

I think scum has gotten away with pushing scummy things early and getting town read for it because it’s “pushing us out of rvs” but I think just posting ridiculous things like massclaiming in this setup should not be given towncred
I am not certain anyone is giving towncred for this reason, we are just actually discussing whether the idea has merit. It doesn't. I feel like you are trying to stop something that isn't really happening. Paranoia?
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #87 on: March 11, 2018, 10:02:41 pm »

Oh I guess theorel did.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #88 on: March 11, 2018, 11:50:10 pm »

I think scum has gotten away with pushing scummy things early and getting town read for it because it’s “pushing us out of rvs” but I think just posting ridiculous things like massclaiming in this setup should not be given towncred

So do you think Joshua is skummy for doing it?
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theorel

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #89 on: March 12, 2018, 10:46:13 am »

I think scum has gotten away with pushing scummy things early and getting town read for it because it’s “pushing us out of rvs” but I think just posting ridiculous things like massclaiming in this setup should not be given towncred
I'll just have to take your word for it.  I don't think that particular thing is true in any game I've been a part of.  Robz was not town-read in Smash Bros, Silver was town-read (by me at least) in Gilmore Girls (but it wasn't pushing anything scummy), and Space Alert was too different to apply.

Then again, in smash bros, O got town-read for doing scummy things as well.  So maybe the point is more generically that scum seems to be taking advantage of "too scummy to be scum"? this allows them to just be scummy without getting in trouble for it.  Hmm...I could be persuading myself to recalibrate here.  I feel like my sample may be too small, but you and Galz at least are suggesting it to be true (in the specific pushing for mass-claim case).  Would anyone say this has been generally true?
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theorel

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #90 on: March 12, 2018, 10:46:34 am »

I think scum has gotten away with pushing scummy things early and getting town read for it because it’s “pushing us out of rvs” but I think just posting ridiculous things like massclaiming in this setup should not be given towncred

So do you think Joshua is skummy for doing it?
You mean Joseph?
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #91 on: March 12, 2018, 05:05:58 pm »

I think scum has gotten away with pushing scummy things early and getting town read for it because it’s “pushing us out of rvs” but I think just posting ridiculous things like massclaiming in this setup should not be given towncred

So do you think Joshua is skummy for doing it?
You mean Joseph?

yes
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #92 on: March 12, 2018, 05:55:21 pm »

who wanna vote witherweaver wit me

galz want your first vote to be a good vote
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #93 on: March 12, 2018, 06:24:26 pm »

Vote: mcmc

Or theorel
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #94 on: March 12, 2018, 06:28:36 pm »

o ya that's also an ok vote
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #95 on: March 12, 2018, 08:41:39 pm »

Gah.. I really don't like being silent for more than 24 hours when I'm supposed to be active in a game, even when a thread is averaging more than one post every two hours or so! However, work mess is happening, and I had to escape to a rehearsal, and now I'm back at work and not going to be home till after 1am.. so I'm making an apologetic post and then running away for sleep. Sorry :-(
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #96 on: March 12, 2018, 09:04:07 pm »

who wanna vote witherweaver wit me

galz want your first vote to be a good vote

I could dig a WW vote. What is the reason again?
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #97 on: March 12, 2018, 09:22:15 pm »

I could dig a WW vote. What is the reason again?

What isn't the reason?
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #98 on: March 12, 2018, 09:28:13 pm »

who wanna vote witherweaver wit me

galz want your first vote to be a good vote

I could dig a WW vote. What is the reason again?
u can look at his posts

he often has a bit of sick callouty town content by now
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The_Wine_Merchant

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #99 on: March 12, 2018, 09:41:29 pm »

Hey awaclus has anyone townslipped yet?
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #100 on: March 12, 2018, 09:58:56 pm »

Hey awaclus has anyone townslipped yet?

has anyone not town slipped yet?
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #101 on: March 12, 2018, 10:27:11 pm »

lmfoaofo
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theorel

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #102 on: March 13, 2018, 07:46:25 am »

I think I like to vote: witherweaver, need to get these wagons moving people...besides Awaclus has made a compelling argument as always.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #103 on: March 13, 2018, 08:06:22 am »

Vote: theorel
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #104 on: March 13, 2018, 09:42:02 am »

Vote: mcmc

Or theorel

I don't really see McMc. Can you enlighten?
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #105 on: March 13, 2018, 09:45:15 am »

who wanna vote witherweaver wit me

galz want your first vote to be a good vote

I could dig a WW vote. What is the reason again?
u can look at his posts

he often has a bit of sick callouty town content by now

This is kind of bad, because your original vote (made without explanation) came before this justification could possibly apply, so this is post facto reasoning.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #106 on: March 13, 2018, 09:45:37 am »

I think I like to vote: witherweaver, need to get these wagons moving people...besides Awaclus has made a compelling argument as always.

This might be strike two.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - FULL!
« Reply #107 on: March 13, 2018, 10:09:29 am »

Lo, it shall come upon the world that the prison of the Greatest One shall grow weak, like the limbs of those who crafted it.

Vote Count 1.1

SpaceAnemone: (1) Joseph2302
Joseph2302: (1) mcmcsalot
Witherweaver: (2) schadd, theorel
pingpongsam: (1) SpaceAnemone
mcmcsalot: (1) The_Wine_Merchant
theorel: (1) pingpongsam

Not voting (5): Awaclus, DatSwan, Galzria, Robz888, Witherweaver.

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day ends Sunday, March 18th at 4:45 p.m. Forum time.

THREAD UNLOCKED

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schadd

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #108 on: March 13, 2018, 10:41:21 am »

who wanna vote witherweaver wit me

galz want your first vote to be a good vote

I could dig a WW vote. What is the reason again?
u can look at his posts

he often has a bit of sick callouty town content by now

This is kind of bad, because your original vote (made without explanation) came before this justification could possibly apply, so this is post facto reasoning.
nah. it's current facto. swan asked why to vote ww, not why i had voted

n.b.

and i mean it's not like the reasoning was really different at the time. "consider yourself forced" seemed more trying to look busy than scumhunty. enough to be better than rvs vote

it's interesting that you would expect me to have a significant talking point for the naked vote i made on you at the 16th game post
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #109 on: March 13, 2018, 10:47:00 am »

who wanna vote witherweaver wit me

galz want your first vote to be a good vote

I could dig a WW vote. What is the reason again?
u can look at his posts

he often has a bit of sick callouty town content by now

This is kind of bad, because your original vote (made without explanation) came before this justification could possibly apply, so this is post facto reasoning.
nah. it's current facto. swan asked why to vote ww, not why i had voted

n.b.

and i mean it's not like the reasoning was really different at the time. "consider yourself forced" seemed more trying to look busy than scumhunty. enough to be better than rvs vote

it's interesting that you would expect me to have a significant talking point for the naked vote i made on you at the 16th game post

That was a post I made within two minutes of opening the thread. Why would I need to look busy?

The latter part is a misrepresentation. What is questionable is that you made a vote and then came up with a weak reason to make it a "real vote" (or more real) later on.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #110 on: March 13, 2018, 11:21:48 am »

who wanna vote witherweaver wit me

galz want your first vote to be a good vote

I could dig a WW vote. What is the reason again?
u can look at his posts

he often has a bit of sick callouty town content by now

This is kind of bad, because your original vote (made without explanation) came before this justification could possibly apply, so this is post facto reasoning.
nah. it's current facto. swan asked why to vote ww, not why i had voted

n.b.

and i mean it's not like the reasoning was really different at the time. "consider yourself forced" seemed more trying to look busy than scumhunty. enough to be better than rvs vote

it's interesting that you would expect me to have a significant talking point for the naked vote i made on you at the 16th game post

That was a post I made within two minutes of opening the thread. Why would I need to look busy?

The latter part is a misrepresentation. What is questionable is that you made a vote and then came up with a weak reason to make it a "real vote" (or more real) later on.
scum wants to be townread all the time. i don't see why you wouldn't want to look busy at the beginning of the game

in 58 you say pushing a massclaim is something scum does to appear active or productive, and that it is thus reasonable to push joseph, who did that on the third post


for the second thing, no, that's not what i did. i initially voted you because i thought you were marginally scummy. i later campaigned to vote you because i was more confident that you were scummy. i then gave a reason when prompted that encapsulated my thinking.


the claim that i "came up with a weak reason" after the fact is in fact a claim (and in fact false) but your sentence takes it as a sort of premise ("that you in fact did this thing is questionable")
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Witherweaver

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #111 on: March 13, 2018, 11:48:24 am »

Because there's nothing about which to construct an artificial air of business.

I think I remember now why I stopped playing Mafia.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #112 on: March 13, 2018, 11:49:11 am »

It is a fact that I consider what you did to be questionable. There's no point to argue this.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #113 on: March 13, 2018, 12:04:30 pm »

Vote: WW
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #114 on: March 13, 2018, 12:08:27 pm »

Because there's nothing about which to construct an artificial air of business.
...as i said, you claimed it is reasonable to push joseph's massclaim as scummy because scum wants to look active and productive. i guess i am taking this to be the same as "looking busy" which may be unclear / not agreed with

you could construct an artificial air of business around, for example, the meta discussion of massclaiming, which is what i accused you of doing

I think I remember now why I stopped playing Mafia.
i am trying to make my points and thought process clear. sorry if i am not doing this sufficiently.

It is a fact that I consider what you did to be questionable. There's no point to argue this.
that isn't the thing i said was a claim. the claim you made was that i came up with a reason after the fact. i didn't. i had a reason to vote for you in my head when i voted you. you worded your sentence in a way that took that claim as a given, which seemed like arguing in bad faith.
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Witherweaver

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #115 on: March 13, 2018, 12:25:11 pm »

Because there's nothing about which to construct an artificial air of business.
...as i said, you claimed it is reasonable to push joseph's massclaim as scummy because scum wants to look active and productive. i guess i am taking this to be the same as "looking busy" which may be unclear / not agreed with

you could construct an artificial air of business around, for example, the meta discussion of massclaiming, which is what i accused you of doing

No, this was about the first vote:

who wanna vote witherweaver wit me

galz want your first vote to be a good vote

I could dig a WW vote. What is the reason again?
u can look at his posts

he often has a bit of sick callouty town content by now

This is kind of bad, because your original vote (made without explanation) came before this justification could possibly apply, so this is post facto reasoning.
nah. it's current facto. swan asked why to vote ww, not why i had voted

n.b.

and i mean it's not like the reasoning was really different at the time. "consider yourself forced" seemed more trying to look busy than scumhunty. enough to be better than rvs vote

it's interesting that you would expect me to have a significant talking point for the naked vote i made on you at the 16th game post

It was before I made the post about massclaiming.

Quote
I think I remember now why I stopped playing Mafia.
i am trying to make my points and thought process clear. sorry if i am not doing this sufficiently.

It is a fact that I consider what you did to be questionable. There's no point to argue this.
that isn't the thing i said was a claim. the claim you made was that i came up with a reason after the fact. i didn't. i had a reason to vote for you in my head when i voted you. you worded your sentence in a way that took that claim as a given, which seemed like arguing in bad faith.

The reasoning was presented after the fact. Whether you came up with it at the time or after is not knowable. 
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #116 on: March 13, 2018, 12:32:46 pm »

To be clear, this was how the beginning of the day went:

Hi guys, I'm not a one-shot PGO.

vote: joseph the people claiming massclaim recently have more often than not been scum.
Fake news? I can only think of iguana in Lost.
Robz in smash bro’s, I’ll get other examples if forced.

Consider yourself forced.

I agree with Mcmc, and I support his assertion without request for more evidence. He's correct. If you want more evidence, I suggest you look it up yourself.

vote: witherweaver

This was my first time opening the thread and those were my first posts. I couldn't be looking busy because there wasn't content with which to be busy about.  Hence:

Quote
and i mean it's not like the reasoning was really different at the time. "consider yourself forced" seemed more trying to look busy than scumhunty. enough to be better than rvs vote

Quote
That was a post I made within two minutes of opening the thread. Why would I need to look busy?
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schadd

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #117 on: March 13, 2018, 12:33:46 pm »

you could construct an artificial air of business around, for example, the meta discussion of massclaiming, which is what i accused you of doing
this was referring to 47.

The reasoning was presented after the fact. Whether you came up with it at the time or after is not knowable.
yup!

however, my argument was that you worded a sentence as though it was in fact knowable and that i did do the thing you said i did
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #118 on: March 13, 2018, 12:36:32 pm »

you could construct an artificial air of business around, for example, the meta discussion of massclaiming, which is what i accused you of doing
this was referring to 47.

The reasoning was presented after the fact. Whether you came up with it at the time or after is not knowable.
yup!

however, my argument was that you worded a sentence as though it was in fact knowable and that i did do the thing you said i did

I don't see an issue with that? That's the narrative I'm entertaining.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #119 on: March 13, 2018, 12:39:30 pm »

47 seemed to me at the time like it would more reasonably come from "how can i look engaged in this discussion" than "who is scum"

i'm like not even continuing to make the argument really it was just more compelling than an rvs vote

The reasoning was presented after the fact. Whether you came up with it at the time or after is not knowable.
yup!

however, my argument was that you worded a sentence as though it was in fact knowable and that i did do the thing you said i did

I don't see an issue with that? That's the narrative I'm entertaining.
ok. people can figure out whether they think your wording was manipulative i suppose
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Witherweaver

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #120 on: March 13, 2018, 12:39:38 pm »

you could construct an artificial air of business around, for example, the meta discussion of massclaiming, which is what i accused you of doing
this was referring to 47.

It sounds a lot more like you're talking about this post, which came after.

The post I made in response to McMc (47) was about McMc and not about the content about which he was talking.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #121 on: March 13, 2018, 12:41:39 pm »

47 seemed to me at the time like it would more reasonably come from "how can i look engaged in this discussion" than "who is scum"

i'm like not even continuing to make the argument really it was just more compelling than an rvs vote

Which is fine. The issue is that later on, you double down on the vote. It is like a "it was a kind of weak vote then but now it's stronger" thing that I have found scum does.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #122 on: March 13, 2018, 12:42:04 pm »

hmmm this schad and ww back and forth does not feel overly town v. town as early squabbles like this often do.
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #123 on: March 13, 2018, 01:00:20 pm »

Vote: McMc
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #124 on: March 13, 2018, 01:06:39 pm »

The post I made in response to McMc (47) was about McMc and not about the content about which he was talking.
ok i guess, it had struck me as just wanting examples

like did you expect mcmc in fact only have one example and if so would that be alignment indicative

etc

Which is fine. The issue is that later on, you double down on the vote. It is like a "it was a kind of weak vote then but now it's stronger" thing that I have found scum does.
i guess this is reasonable if you are town and have the premise "most stuff i do should generally make people think i'm town"

i thought you were scum and more content from you continued to fit the expectation i had of you as scum

Vote: McMc
reasonable

i guess i am interested in why you never voted me during this time
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #125 on: March 13, 2018, 01:08:49 pm »

I didn't feel compelled to.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #126 on: March 13, 2018, 01:31:24 pm »

hmmm this schad and ww back and forth does not feel overly town v. town as early squabbles like this often do.
That's funny, as I was reading it I felt the exact opposite.  It's so nitpicky, and wording-focused rather than substance-focused, that it strikes me as a town-interaction.  This post here though, it's very shade-casting without really putting yourself out there.  I'm agreeing with witherweaver's vote here.  In fact, I'll just go ahead and join him, vote: mcmc.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #127 on: March 13, 2018, 06:50:02 pm »

hmmm this schad and ww back and forth does not feel overly town v. town as early squabbles like this often do.
That's funny, as I was reading it I felt the exact opposite.  It's so nitpicky, and wording-focused rather than substance-focused, that it strikes me as a town-interaction.  This post here though, it's very shade-casting without really putting yourself out there.  I'm agreeing with witherweaver's vote here.  In fact, I'll just go ahead and join him, vote: mcmc.
Ding. However, if mcmc is scum, this post does feel bussy. Just for the record.
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Losses: M100, M103, M104, M109, M112

MVPs: M91, M96
Win percentage: 54.5 (6/11)

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #128 on: March 13, 2018, 07:54:31 pm »

hmmm this schad and ww back and forth does not feel overly town v. town as early squabbles like this often do.
That's funny, as I was reading it I felt the exact opposite.  It's so nitpicky, and wording-focused rather than substance-focused, that it strikes me as a town-interaction.  This post here though, it's very shade-casting without really putting yourself out there.  I'm agreeing with witherweaver's vote here.  In fact, I'll just go ahead and join him, vote: mcmc.

Have just caught up, and yes, when I got to mcmc's post, my thinking was similar. Well, it was more that both lines of reasoning have their validity: WW feels like he's taking his side with genuine conviction, but schadd's behaviour seems nothing out of the ordinary... I'm sure I've left RVS votes hanging a bunch of times and then worked out that they're reasonable places to be voting after all.

Vote: mcmc wagons!
(I really need to set up y wagon counter for this game.. I'm going to trust I'm not at risk of a derp-hammer or anything silly just yet, though!
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Town games: M84(L), M85(W), M86(L), M87(W), M88(L), M90(L), M92(W), M94(L), M97(L), M99(W), M100(L), M104(W), M107(W), M110(L), M112(L), RMM37(L), RMM40(D), RMM41(L), RMM43(L), RMM47(W), ZM23(W).
Scum games: M89(D), M108(L), NM8(W&MVP), NM10(L)   Mod: NM9, RMM38, RMM42.   Pronouns: they/them

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #129 on: March 13, 2018, 07:58:33 pm »

hmmm this schad and ww back and forth does not feel overly town v. town as early squabbles like this often do.
That's funny, as I was reading it I felt the exact opposite.  It's so nitpicky, and wording-focused rather than substance-focused, that it strikes me as a town-interaction.  This post here though, it's very shade-casting without really putting yourself out there.  I'm agreeing with witherweaver's vote here.  In fact, I'll just go ahead and join him, vote: mcmc.
Ding. However, if mcmc is scum, this post does feel bussy. Just for the record.

I was feeling very "Meh" about that comment, but then I worked out that you're actually voting mcmc, so that gets a pass. Does this mean you're also floating a Theorel vote as a possibility?
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #130 on: March 13, 2018, 08:07:47 pm »

Space Count

SpaceAnemone (1): Joseph2302
Joseph2302 (1): mcmcsalot
Witherweaver (2): schadd, Galzria
mcmcsalot (4): The_Wine_Merchant, Witherweaver, theorel, SpaceAnemone
theorel (1): pingpongsam
Not Voting (3): Robz888, DatSwan, Awaclus
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Scum games: M89(D), M108(L), NM8(W&MVP), NM10(L)   Mod: NM9, RMM38, RMM42.   Pronouns: they/them

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #131 on: March 13, 2018, 08:37:40 pm »

hmmm this schad and ww back and forth does not feel overly town v. town as early squabbles like this often do.
That's funny, as I was reading it I felt the exact opposite.  It's so nitpicky, and wording-focused rather than substance-focused, that it strikes me as a town-interaction.  This post here though, it's very shade-casting without really putting yourself out there.  I'm agreeing with witherweaver's vote here.  In fact, I'll just go ahead and join him, vote: mcmc.
Ding. However, if mcmc is scum, this post does feel bussy. Just for the record.

I was feeling very "Meh" about that comment, but then I worked out that you're actually voting mcmc, so that gets a pass. Does this mean you're also floating a Theorel vote as a possibility?

Yes.

Vote: mcmc

Or theorel

So a lot of my bussing theory is more than likely very much confirmation bias. Especially as we don't know mcmc's actual alignment. But I do think that the bus vote tends to happen how theorel's vote went down (mid-wagon, hedging with an opportunity to escape given an opportunity, sheeping someone else), especially in the early game.
Logged
Wins: M91, M96, NM10, M98, M102, M105
Losses: M100, M103, M104, M109, M112

MVPs: M91, M96
Win percentage: 54.5 (6/11)

Swowl

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #132 on: March 14, 2018, 02:54:18 am »

I didn't feel compelled to.

So you are TRing schadd?
Logged
Jesus how did i fuck that up
real good. That’s how
Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

Swowl

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #133 on: March 14, 2018, 02:58:07 am »

hmmm this schad and ww back and forth does not feel overly town v. town as early squabbles like this often do.
That's funny, as I was reading it I felt the exact opposite.  It's so nitpicky, and wording-focused rather than substance-focused, that it strikes me as a town-interaction.  This post here though, it's very shade-casting without really putting yourself out there.  I'm agreeing with witherweaver's vote here.  In fact, I'll just go ahead and join him, vote: mcmc.

Have just caught up, and yes, when I got to mcmc's post, my thinking was similar. Well, it was more that both lines of reasoning have their validity: WW feels like he's taking his side with genuine conviction, but schadd's behaviour seems nothing out of the ordinary... I'm sure I've left RVS votes hanging a bunch of times and then worked out that they're reasonable places to be voting after all.

Vote: mcmc wagons!
(I really need to set up y wagon counter for this game.. I'm going to trust I'm not at risk of a derp-hammer or anything silly just yet, though!

Feels off to me that space wouldn’t “do the derp hammer math” first.
Logged
Jesus how did i fuck that up
real good. That’s how
Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

theorel

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #134 on: March 14, 2018, 07:45:31 am »

hmmm this schad and ww back and forth does not feel overly town v. town as early squabbles like this often do.
That's funny, as I was reading it I felt the exact opposite.  It's so nitpicky, and wording-focused rather than substance-focused, that it strikes me as a town-interaction.  This post here though, it's very shade-casting without really putting yourself out there.  I'm agreeing with witherweaver's vote here.  In fact, I'll just go ahead and join him, vote: mcmc.

Have just caught up, and yes, when I got to mcmc's post, my thinking was similar. Well, it was more that both lines of reasoning have their validity: WW feels like he's taking his side with genuine conviction, but schadd's behaviour seems nothing out of the ordinary... I'm sure I've left RVS votes hanging a bunch of times and then worked out that they're reasonable places to be voting after all.

Vote: mcmc wagons!
(I really need to set up y wagon counter for this game.. I'm going to trust I'm not at risk of a derp-hammer or anything silly just yet, though!

Feels off to me that space wouldn’t “do the derp hammer math” first.
I feel like town is more likely to actually not do derp-hammer math.
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Robz888

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #135 on: March 14, 2018, 10:09:06 am »

Just checking in to apologize for having had no time for this, family vacation and all. Will have more time starting tomorrow.
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Witherweaver

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #136 on: March 14, 2018, 11:02:06 am »

I didn't feel compelled to.

So you are TRing schadd?

I'm holding out on judgement.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #137 on: March 14, 2018, 11:02:30 am »

Probably going to be absent for most of today/tomorrow.
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EFHW

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #138 on: March 14, 2018, 01:24:21 pm »

And his paths shall be many, and who shall know his name, for he shall be born among us many times, in many guises, as he has been and ever will be, time without end.

Vote Count 1.2

SpaceAnemone: (1) Joseph2302
Joseph2302: (1) mcmcsalot
Witherweaver: (2) schadd, Galzria
mcmcsalot: (4) The_Wine_Merchant, Witherweaver, theorel, SpaceAnemone
theorel: (1) pingpongsam

Not voting (5): Awaclus, DatSwan, Robz888

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day ends Sunday, March 18th at 4:45 p.m. Forum time.
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pingpongsam

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #139 on: March 14, 2018, 01:39:37 pm »

Come, vote theorel with me and let us start this day off right.
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Galzria

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #140 on: March 14, 2018, 02:44:36 pm »

vote: witherweaver

You have chosen... Poorly.

Vote: WW

All other interactions between WW & Schadd aside, this subtly suggests to me WW knows Schadd to be town - as I feel like the "choosing" of a vote is more an act of a townie who is trying to discover scum, whereas say, the "placing" of a vote is something scum does.

I guess it's a small thing, and I get WW was making a reference - but the way it was worded feels off to me.
Logged
Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Galzria

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #141 on: March 14, 2018, 02:45:39 pm »

vote: witherweaver

You have chosen... Poorly.
i agree with you that i am town

Schadd appears to have felt the same regarding this, although he didn't spell it out.
Logged
Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

schadd

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #142 on: March 14, 2018, 04:41:42 pm »

yes that was the claim
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mcmcsalot

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #143 on: March 14, 2018, 05:12:02 pm »

Hey, don’t think my statements are scummy, stand by them
Logged
Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #144 on: March 14, 2018, 06:51:14 pm »

Request prod on Joseph

He had a VLA post on Friday 9th March indicating he was away "until Monday", but that should have meant the 12th, and it's only an hour or so off being the 15th in our timezone...
Logged
Congratulations! Your SpaceAnemone evolved into UniverseAnemone!
Town games: M84(L), M85(W), M86(L), M87(W), M88(L), M90(L), M92(W), M94(L), M97(L), M99(W), M100(L), M104(W), M107(W), M110(L), M112(L), RMM37(L), RMM40(D), RMM41(L), RMM43(L), RMM47(W), ZM23(W).
Scum games: M89(D), M108(L), NM8(W&MVP), NM10(L)   Mod: NM9, RMM38, RMM42.   Pronouns: they/them

Joseph2302

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #145 on: March 14, 2018, 07:01:25 pm »

Request prod on Joseph

He had a VLA post on Friday 9th March indicating he was away "until Monday", but that should have meant the 12th, and it's only an hour or so off being the 15th in our timezone...
I'm here but been away/busy every night this week (including tonight)
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Mafia Stats: (correct as of 2017)
Town: 22 games, 8 wins
Scum: 5 games, 3 wins

Joseph2302

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #146 on: March 14, 2018, 07:01:43 pm »

Less has happened in my absence than I'd have liked
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Mafia Stats: (correct as of 2017)
Town: 22 games, 8 wins
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Joseph2302

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #147 on: March 14, 2018, 07:03:16 pm »

I'll reread tomorrow, especially mcmc as they've got the most votes currently.
Although he wasn't reading scummy to me.
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Mafia Stats: (correct as of 2017)
Town: 22 games, 8 wins
Scum: 5 games, 3 wins

SpaceAnemone

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #148 on: March 14, 2018, 07:30:28 pm »

I'm here but been away/busy every night this week (including tonight)

I'm seldom not out on any given night, but this game is dragging horribly, and people waiting for something to happen before posting is really not helping.
Logged
Congratulations! Your SpaceAnemone evolved into UniverseAnemone!
Town games: M84(L), M85(W), M86(L), M87(W), M88(L), M90(L), M92(W), M94(L), M97(L), M99(W), M100(L), M104(W), M107(W), M110(L), M112(L), RMM37(L), RMM40(D), RMM41(L), RMM43(L), RMM47(W), ZM23(W).
Scum games: M89(D), M108(L), NM8(W&MVP), NM10(L)   Mod: NM9, RMM38, RMM42.   Pronouns: they/them

SpaceAnemone

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #149 on: March 14, 2018, 08:19:54 pm »

Some things for people to disagree with me on, given that this is going to have to be a readsy game:

Robz888: 3 game posts so far, mostly VLA. I agree with him not awarding any kind of townpoints to Joseph. He needs to be more present, and has said he'll have more time starting tomorrow, so let's defer judgement till then.

Joseph2302: Has just been AWOL for a number of days on the back of a posted VLA. Opened with his usual silly SK stunt, followed by an even less helpful suggestion of massclaim. He feels even more than usual like he's acting like he expects people to want him to act, with no sensible level of engagement or thought underneath. That's not alignment-indicative, and people trying to weave town/scum narratives around if for cred or easy mislynches are people we should keep an eye on.

schadd: I'm impressed that his vote at #38 didn't cause me more of a headache for the auto-vote-counter once I got it set up for this game. Seems to be the more def!town side of the schadd-WW argument in my reading of it, but I do think they could easily both be town.

Space: Spaaaaaace :-)

TheWineMerchant: In tone, he feels a smidge grumpier than his average, but maybe that's just me having found a thing to disagree with. Most of what he says is actually really sensible. But I feel the need to keep a careful eye on him anyway.

Theorel: I really disagree with the townpoints-to-Joseph thing early on, but his later posts seem pretty sensible and echo some of my thought processes.

Galzria: Really low on content. Only five game posts, and two of them were quoting schadd's "I agree with you that I am town" statement: once at #78, and then again at #141. The only other thing he's contributed was support for mcmc about not giving town points to Joseph. While I understand other people's frustration with too much being read into Joseph's undirected behaviour, I think Galz was too curt, and almost aggressive sounding in his demand that other people don't ask for mcmc to back up his statement. We want town players to be able to offer watertight arguments.. I'm really not sure where Galz was coming from there.

DatSwan: Is he less verbose than usual? His posting rate has tailed off over the past few days, so I think he's one of the people contributing to the lull that seems to be happening. He's incorrect about the "do the derp hammer math" thing: I really did just judge it to be too early in the game to be worth being particularly concerned, and I wanted to get a vote down before distracting myself with setting up the vote counter for the game (which took something like 10 mins, but had it taken longer there was a risk I'd just have forgotten to vote). Also, it's "maths" for me, never "math".

Awaclus: The non-violent-looking avatar is weird to me. He's made only one game post so far. In fact, Request prod on Awaclus too.. I only searched for people who'd been gone over 48 hours before, and right now, he's almost up to 48 already anyway.

mcmcsalot: Is he kind of VLA just now? I believe he's been in the same VLA as Robz. I think his comment was worth the slew of votes it drew. Well, TWM was there before. It's going to be an interesting wagon to look back on later in the game, I guess, if we even get any usable flips.

Witherweaver: Could easily be TvT with the schadd stuff. OTOH, his may be the scummiest of the mcmc wagon votes, given that he was pushing at schadd a fair amount without apparently feeling compelled to vote at that point. At least he's decently active!

pingpongsam: Only four game posts, one of which is an SK joke and the other three of which push along his really-poorly-explained attempt to get a wagon going on theorel, which none fo us seem to be feeling. @PPS: care to put forward a bit more of a case there?
Logged
Congratulations! Your SpaceAnemone evolved into UniverseAnemone!
Town games: M84(L), M85(W), M86(L), M87(W), M88(L), M90(L), M92(W), M94(L), M97(L), M99(W), M100(L), M104(W), M107(W), M110(L), M112(L), RMM37(L), RMM40(D), RMM41(L), RMM43(L), RMM47(W), ZM23(W).
Scum games: M89(D), M108(L), NM8(W&MVP), NM10(L)   Mod: NM9, RMM38, RMM42.   Pronouns: they/them

pingpongsam

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #150 on: March 14, 2018, 08:29:23 pm »

Yeah, I can do a thing on theorel. It's all really based on his initial posts and how he never did anything to change my read.
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Galzria

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #151 on: March 14, 2018, 09:24:55 pm »

Galzria: Really low on content. Only five game posts, and two of them were quoting schadd's "I agree with you that I am town" statement: once at #78, and then again at #141. The only other thing he's contributed was support for mcmc about not giving town points to Joseph. While I understand other people's frustration with too much being read into Joseph's undirected behaviour, I think Galz was too curt, and almost aggressive sounding in his demand that other people don't ask for mcmc to back up his statement. We want town players to be able to offer watertight arguments.. I'm really not sure where Galz was coming from there.

We don't want players (town or scum) wasting their time going back and providing examples of things that can easily be checked for their accuracy. Mcmc, like all of us, has a limited amount of time to play. I would much rather him contribute alignment indicative content relevant to this game then spend his time pulling up quotes from other games.
Logged
Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

The_Wine_Merchant

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #152 on: March 14, 2018, 10:35:09 pm »

Busy. Sorry. Back fully on Friday.
Logged
Wins: M91, M96, NM10, M98, M102, M105
Losses: M100, M103, M104, M109, M112

MVPs: M91, M96
Win percentage: 54.5 (6/11)

The_Wine_Merchant

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #153 on: March 14, 2018, 10:36:48 pm »

Galzria: Really low on content. Only five game posts, and two of them were quoting schadd's "I agree with you that I am town" statement: once at #78, and then again at #141. The only other thing he's contributed was support for mcmc about not giving town points to Joseph. While I understand other people's frustration with too much being read into Joseph's undirected behaviour, I think Galz was too curt, and almost aggressive sounding in his demand that other people don't ask for mcmc to back up his statement. We want town players to be able to offer watertight arguments.. I'm really not sure where Galz was coming from there.

We don't want players (town or scum) wasting their time going back and providing examples of things that can easily be checked for their accuracy. Mcmc, like all of us, has a limited amount of time to play. I would much rather him contribute alignment indicative content relevant to this game then spend his time pulling up quotes from other games.
I don't think anyone asked him pull quotes.
Logged
Wins: M91, M96, NM10, M98, M102, M105
Losses: M100, M103, M104, M109, M112

MVPs: M91, M96
Win percentage: 54.5 (6/11)

Galzria

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #154 on: March 14, 2018, 10:39:43 pm »

Galzria: Really low on content. Only five game posts, and two of them were quoting schadd's "I agree with you that I am town" statement: once at #78, and then again at #141. The only other thing he's contributed was support for mcmc about not giving town points to Joseph. While I understand other people's frustration with too much being read into Joseph's undirected behaviour, I think Galz was too curt, and almost aggressive sounding in his demand that other people don't ask for mcmc to back up his statement. We want town players to be able to offer watertight arguments.. I'm really not sure where Galz was coming from there.

We don't want players (town or scum) wasting their time going back and providing examples of things that can easily be checked for their accuracy. Mcmc, like all of us, has a limited amount of time to play. I would much rather him contribute alignment indicative content relevant to this game then spend his time pulling up quotes from other games.
I don't think anyone asked him pull quotes.

vote: joseph the people claiming massclaim recently have more often than not been scum.
Fake news? I can only think of iguana in Lost.
Robz in smash bro’s, I’ll get other examples if forced.

Consider yourself forced.
Logged
Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Galzria

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #155 on: March 14, 2018, 10:41:01 pm »

I agree with Mcmc, and I support his assertion without request for more evidence. He's correct. If you want more evidence, I suggest you look it up yourself.
Logged
Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #156 on: March 14, 2018, 11:09:43 pm »

Awaclus has been prodded.
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Awaclus

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #157 on: March 15, 2018, 12:25:17 am »

I'm following the game.
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Galzria

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #158 on: March 15, 2018, 12:40:48 am »

I'm following the game.

If you wanted to follow, you should've spectated.
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Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #159 on: March 15, 2018, 12:44:26 am »

Galzria: Really low on content. Only five game posts, and two of them were quoting schadd's "I agree with you that I am town" statement: once at #78, and then again at #141. The only other thing he's contributed was support for mcmc about not giving town points to Joseph. While I understand other people's frustration with too much being read into Joseph's undirected behaviour, I think Galz was too curt, and almost aggressive sounding in his demand that other people don't ask for mcmc to back up his statement. We want town players to be able to offer watertight arguments.. I'm really not sure where Galz was coming from there.

We don't want players (town or scum) wasting their time going back and providing examples of things that can easily be checked for their accuracy. Mcmc, like all of us, has a limited amount of time to play. I would much rather him contribute alignment indicative content relevant to this game then spend his time pulling up quotes from other games.

Fairly certain this was just a mis understanding. I doubt space was suggesting people should be wasting time delving up NAI content.
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Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
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3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

Awaclus

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #160 on: March 15, 2018, 01:10:06 am »

I'm following the game.

If you wanted to follow, you should've spectated.

I mean I'm participating in the game.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #161 on: March 15, 2018, 05:59:42 am »

Ok here and ready to wrastle!

WW vs Schadd - fairly obv town v town imo opinion. Essentially argued over cemantics for the majority of the back and forth. Only thing that stands out would be the conclusion of it, but even then I’m leaning town over both of them.

Joseph - Claim thing always make me suspicious early game.

Mcmc - lots of “skum has been getting away with this recently” type of posts. Referencing like that i guess could be from town trying to create a foundation to present for a read, or could be skum creating an easy opposition to the matter.

Galz - recent post about WW quote seems like a reach (considering it’s a quote). Kind of NAI but he hasn’t said much so that’s what i got.

Theroel - i actually town read his initial town cred towards Joseph. I think skum probably stayed out of that mix.

Robz and Awaclus - not around

PPS - Theroel tunnel seems forced. However given low content, a lot has seemed forced from people so far.

Space/TWM -seems standard early game for both at this point.


Gonna go with vote:Joseph
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Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

pingpongsam

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #162 on: March 15, 2018, 06:18:32 am »

Forced? D1 sucks. I found the one thing that actually looked scummy and voted it. It’s how I roll on D1.
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mcmcsalot

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #163 on: March 15, 2018, 08:19:59 am »

We should remember scum has daychat
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

theorel

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #164 on: March 15, 2018, 08:39:57 am »

vote: witherweaver

You have chosen... Poorly.

Vote: WW

All other interactions between WW & Schadd aside, this subtly suggests to me WW knows Schadd to be town - as I feel like the "choosing" of a vote is more an act of a townie who is trying to discover scum, whereas say, the "placing" of a vote is something scum does.

I guess it's a small thing, and I get WW was making a reference - but the way it was worded feels off to me.
I disagree with your argument, but I get the "feels off" part.  I think maybe because "Chosen poorly" is an implied "I'm town" claim combined with the proposal that schadd is town and making a mistake, rather than scum making an intentional push on town.  (which leads to the same conclusion, i.e. witherweaver is casting schadd as town here).

All that said, this seems like a classic "town says something weird and gets heat for it" situation.  It's why I thought he would be a good wagon, because it might draw scum out either supporting his lynch or simply voting for him.  But then schadd and witherweaver's argument became dominant, so I don't think my vote actually had much impact there, but it still seems to have drawn out mcmc, who certainly reads scummy for how he weighed in on it.
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theorel

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #165 on: March 15, 2018, 08:41:04 am »

vote: witherweaver

You have chosen... Poorly.

Vote: WW

All other interactions between WW & Schadd aside, this subtly suggests to me WW knows Schadd to be town - as I feel like the "choosing" of a vote is more an act of a townie who is trying to discover scum, whereas say, the "placing" of a vote is something scum does.

I guess it's a small thing, and I get WW was making a reference - but the way it was worded feels off to me.
I disagree with your argument, but I get the "feels off" part.  I think maybe because "Chosen poorly" is an implied "I'm town" claim combined with the proposal that schadd is town and making a mistake, rather than scum making an intentional push on town.  (which leads to the same conclusion, i.e. witherweaver is casting schadd as town here).

All that said, this seems like a classic "town says something weird and gets heat for it" situation.  It's why I thought he would be a good wagon, because it might draw scum out either supporting his lynch or simply voting for him.  But then schadd and witherweaver's argument became dominant, so I don't think my vote actually had much impact there, but it still seems to have drawn out mcmc, who certainly reads scummy for how he weighed in on it.
(it being the argument, not my vote)
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Witherweaver

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #166 on: March 15, 2018, 09:21:35 am »

vote: witherweaver

You have chosen... Poorly.

Vote: WW

All other interactions between WW & Schadd aside, this subtly suggests to me WW knows Schadd to be town - as I feel like the "choosing" of a vote is more an act of a townie who is trying to discover scum, whereas say, the "placing" of a vote is something scum does.

I guess it's a small thing, and I get WW was making a reference - but the way it was worded feels off to me.

Ew.
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Witherweaver

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #167 on: March 15, 2018, 09:22:32 am »

Galzria: Really low on content. Only five game posts, and two of them were quoting schadd's "I agree with you that I am town" statement: once at #78, and then again at #141. The only other thing he's contributed was support for mcmc about not giving town points to Joseph. While I understand other people's frustration with too much being read into Joseph's undirected behaviour, I think Galz was too curt, and almost aggressive sounding in his demand that other people don't ask for mcmc to back up his statement. We want town players to be able to offer watertight arguments.. I'm really not sure where Galz was coming from there.

We don't want players (town or scum) wasting their time going back and providing examples of things that can easily be checked for their accuracy. Mcmc, like all of us, has a limited amount of time to play. I would much rather him contribute alignment indicative content relevant to this game then spend his time pulling up quotes from other games.

People responding to things in Mafia is helpful.
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Witherweaver

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #168 on: March 15, 2018, 09:23:22 am »

Less has happened in my absence than I'd have liked

We were just waiting for you.
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Witherweaver

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #169 on: March 15, 2018, 09:27:31 am »

vote: witherweaver

You have chosen... Poorly.

Vote: WW

All other interactions between WW & Schadd aside, this subtly suggests to me WW knows Schadd to be town - as I feel like the "choosing" of a vote is more an act of a townie who is trying to discover scum, whereas say, the "placing" of a vote is something scum does.

I guess it's a small thing, and I get WW was making a reference - but the way it was worded feels off to me.
I disagree with your argument, but I get the "feels off" part.  I think maybe because "Chosen poorly" is an implied "I'm town" claim combined with the proposal that schadd is town and making a mistake, rather than scum making an intentional push on town.  (which leads to the same conclusion, i.e. witherweaver is casting schadd as town here).

All that said, this seems like a classic "town says something weird and gets heat for it" situation.  It's why I thought he would be a good wagon, because it might draw scum out either supporting his lynch or simply voting for him.  But then schadd and witherweaver's argument became dominant, so I don't think my vote actually had much impact there, but it still seems to have drawn out mcmc, who certainly reads scummy for how he weighed in on it.

It was me telling Schadd that I'm town.

Man, you guys really stretch things around here.
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theorel

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #170 on: March 15, 2018, 10:49:19 am »

...
All that said, this seems like a classic "town says something weird and gets heat for it" situation.  It's why I thought he would be a good wagon, because it might draw scum out either supporting his lynch or simply voting for him.  But then schadd and witherweaver's argument became dominant, so I don't think my vote actually had much impact there, but it still seems to have drawn out mcmc, who certainly reads scummy for how he weighed in on it.

It was me telling Schadd that I'm town.

Man, you guys really stretch things around here.
That's kind of the point.  There's a general view (which I don't really subscribe to) that scum is more likely to tell people they're town.  Also, telling schadd that you're town implies that you know that he's not scum (as otherwise he'd already know).  This all adds up to a bunch of nothing (IMO) which can be made to sound scummy, which was my point.
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Witherweaver

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #171 on: March 15, 2018, 11:53:52 am »

...
All that said, this seems like a classic "town says something weird and gets heat for it" situation.  It's why I thought he would be a good wagon, because it might draw scum out either supporting his lynch or simply voting for him.  But then schadd and witherweaver's argument became dominant, so I don't think my vote actually had much impact there, but it still seems to have drawn out mcmc, who certainly reads scummy for how he weighed in on it.

It was me telling Schadd that I'm town.

Man, you guys really stretch things around here.
That's kind of the point.  There's a general view (which I don't really subscribe to) that scum is more likely to tell people they're town.  Also, telling schadd that you're town implies that you know that he's not scum (as otherwise he'd already know).  This all adds up to a bunch of nothing (IMO) which can be made to sound scummy, which was my point.

Well, that implication does not really work. I'd argue it does not even suggest.

But yeah I guess I was reacting to your "I get the 'feels off' part .." instead of the bulk of your post, which actually disagrees with Galz.
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Witherweaver

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #172 on: March 15, 2018, 11:56:15 am »

I guess it's worth pointing out that theorel pseudotownslipped, or fake-pseudotownslipped, as the mentality of "scum => knowing non teammate is town" assumes a bipartite game. So if that were genuine he would not be an SK, and less likely Mafia as Mafia tends to be aware of SK.
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pingpongsam

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #173 on: March 15, 2018, 12:19:45 pm »

I guess it's worth pointing out that theorel pseudotownslipped, or fake-pseudotownslipped, as the mentality of "scum => knowing non teammate is town" assumes a bipartite game. So if that were genuine he would not be an SK, and less likely Mafia as Mafia tends to be aware of SK.

You already have two claimed SK's what more do you want?
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schadd

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #174 on: March 15, 2018, 01:09:20 pm »

bipartite
you can feel free to eat my shorts
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schadd

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #175 on: March 15, 2018, 01:10:25 pm »

i would dearly like mcmc to explain why he thought me and ww wasn't tvt when he has the opportunity
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Joseph2302

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #176 on: March 15, 2018, 02:44:03 pm »

I guess it's worth pointing out that theorel pseudotownslipped, or fake-pseudotownslipped, as the mentality of "scum => knowing non teammate is town" assumes a bipartite game. So if that were genuine he would not be an SK, and less likely Mafia as Mafia tends to be aware of SK.
Agree. This is enough for me not wanting to lynch theorel today
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Joseph2302

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #177 on: March 15, 2018, 02:44:38 pm »

I guess it's worth pointing out that theorel pseudotownslipped, or fake-pseudotownslipped, as the mentality of "scum => knowing non teammate is town" assumes a bipartite game. So if that were genuine he would not be an SK, and less likely Mafia as Mafia tends to be aware of SK.

You already have two claimed SK's what more do you want?
Maybe start taking this game more seriously? The 2 SK claims were obvious jokes
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Scum: 5 games, 3 wins

Joseph2302

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #178 on: March 15, 2018, 02:45:04 pm »

I think I want to Vote: schadd right now
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pingpongsam

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #179 on: March 15, 2018, 02:48:49 pm »

I'm so serious I only voted once and I'm so serious I'm sticking to it because I am dead damned serious and y'all best not be having any fun because D1 is effing serious business and we are going to solve the scum team right here, right now and lynch them all and win the game before D2 even starts serious.
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schadd

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #180 on: March 15, 2018, 04:41:49 pm »

I'm so serious I only voted once and I'm so serious I'm sticking to it because I am dead damned serious and y'all best not be having any fun because D1 is effing serious business and we are going to solve the scum team right here, right now and lynch them all and win the game before D2 even starts serious.
if this is a criticism idk what you're getting at
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #181 on: March 15, 2018, 05:57:08 pm »

I'm so serious I only voted once and I'm so serious I'm sticking to it because I am dead damned serious and y'all best not be having any fun because D1 is effing serious business and we are going to solve the scum team right here, right now and lynch them all and win the game before D2 even starts serious.

The flipless Werewolf I used to play let us guillotine (lynch) multiple players per day. We killed suspicious people till we were happy, then asked Fate (the mod) to make it night time.. at which point the pattern of kill(s) and injuries (more common that kills) let us guess again at how many baddies were left.

(I'm typing this with a super-serious face on).
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Town games: M84(L), M85(W), M86(L), M87(W), M88(L), M90(L), M92(W), M94(L), M97(L), M99(W), M100(L), M104(W), M107(W), M110(L), M112(L), RMM37(L), RMM40(D), RMM41(L), RMM43(L), RMM47(W), ZM23(W).
Scum games: M89(D), M108(L), NM8(W&MVP), NM10(L)   Mod: NM9, RMM38, RMM42.   Pronouns: they/them

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #182 on: March 15, 2018, 05:59:25 pm »

I think I want to Vote: schadd right now

The "I think I want to" and "right now" portions of that message aren't exactly providing a lot of constructive logic or case beyond the naked vote...
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Town games: M84(L), M85(W), M86(L), M87(W), M88(L), M90(L), M92(W), M94(L), M97(L), M99(W), M100(L), M104(W), M107(W), M110(L), M112(L), RMM37(L), RMM40(D), RMM41(L), RMM43(L), RMM47(W), ZM23(W).
Scum games: M89(D), M108(L), NM8(W&MVP), NM10(L)   Mod: NM9, RMM38, RMM42.   Pronouns: they/them

Witherweaver

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #183 on: March 15, 2018, 06:08:39 pm »

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Witherweaver

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #184 on: March 15, 2018, 06:09:45 pm »

I guess it's worth pointing out that theorel pseudotownslipped, or fake-pseudotownslipped, as the mentality of "scum => knowing non teammate is town" assumes a bipartite game. So if that were genuine he would not be an SK, and less likely Mafia as Mafia tends to be aware of SK.

You already have two claimed SK's what more do you want?
Maybe start taking this game more seriously? The 2 SK claims were obvious jokes

...
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Witherweaver

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #185 on: March 15, 2018, 06:10:19 pm »

I'm so serious I only voted once and I'm so serious I'm sticking to it because I am dead damned serious and y'all best not be having any fun because D1 is effing serious business and we are going to solve the scum team right here, right now and lynch them all and win the game before D2 even starts serious.

<serious cat jpg>
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Joseph2302

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #186 on: March 15, 2018, 06:18:44 pm »

I think I want to Vote: schadd right now

The "I think I want to" and "right now" portions of that message aren't exactly providing a lot of constructive logic or case beyond the naked vote...
I have some logic for it. Enough for a D1 vote anyway
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The_Wine_Merchant

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #187 on: March 15, 2018, 06:29:15 pm »

Galzria: Really low on content. Only five game posts, and two of them were quoting schadd's "I agree with you that I am town" statement: once at #78, and then again at #141. The only other thing he's contributed was support for mcmc about not giving town points to Joseph. While I understand other people's frustration with too much being read into Joseph's undirected behaviour, I think Galz was too curt, and almost aggressive sounding in his demand that other people don't ask for mcmc to back up his statement. We want town players to be able to offer watertight arguments.. I'm really not sure where Galz was coming from there.

We don't want players (town or scum) wasting their time going back and providing examples of things that can easily be checked for their accuracy. Mcmc, like all of us, has a limited amount of time to play. I would much rather him contribute alignment indicative content relevant to this game then spend his time pulling up quotes from other games.
I don't think anyone asked him pull quotes.

vote: joseph the people claiming massclaim recently have more often than not been scum.
Fake news? I can only think of iguana in Lost.
Robz in smash bro’s, I’ll get other examples if forced.

Consider yourself forced.
I still see Nothing about quoting. I see me and WW wanting to provide more examples of what he is claiming to be scummy behavior relevant to this game and thus relevant to alignments of players in this game. If he, or you in backing him up, are unable to provide more examples from memory than I would say that this is not nearly as big of a trend as he and you are saying.

The question I want to figure out is how that reflects his alignment. Is he town misremembering or scum pushing a false narrative. My hopes in getting him to speak more about this is to get more info about this specific context but also provide more info about himself. And your deflection for him is preventing that

Vote: galz
Logged
Wins: M91, M96, NM10, M98, M102, M105
Losses: M100, M103, M104, M109, M112

MVPs: M91, M96
Win percentage: 54.5 (6/11)

The_Wine_Merchant

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #188 on: March 15, 2018, 08:03:14 pm »

I guess it's worth pointing out that theorel pseudotownslipped, or fake-pseudotownslipped, as the mentality of "scum => knowing non teammate is town" assumes a bipartite game. So if that were genuine he would not be an SK, and less likely Mafia as Mafia tends to be aware of SK.
I feel like this is important enough for me to understand that I should ask what the heel you are talking about?
Logged
Wins: M91, M96, NM10, M98, M102, M105
Losses: M100, M103, M104, M109, M112

MVPs: M91, M96
Win percentage: 54.5 (6/11)

Galzria

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #189 on: March 15, 2018, 08:05:44 pm »

Galzria: Really low on content. Only five game posts, and two of them were quoting schadd's "I agree with you that I am town" statement: once at #78, and then again at #141. The only other thing he's contributed was support for mcmc about not giving town points to Joseph. While I understand other people's frustration with too much being read into Joseph's undirected behaviour, I think Galz was too curt, and almost aggressive sounding in his demand that other people don't ask for mcmc to back up his statement. We want town players to be able to offer watertight arguments.. I'm really not sure where Galz was coming from there.

We don't want players (town or scum) wasting their time going back and providing examples of things that can easily be checked for their accuracy. Mcmc, like all of us, has a limited amount of time to play. I would much rather him contribute alignment indicative content relevant to this game then spend his time pulling up quotes from other games.
I don't think anyone asked him pull quotes.

vote: joseph the people claiming massclaim recently have more often than not been scum.
Fake news? I can only think of iguana in Lost.
Robz in smash bro’s, I’ll get other examples if forced.

Consider yourself forced.
I still see Nothing about quoting. I see me and WW wanting to provide more examples of what he is claiming to be scummy behavior relevant to this game and thus relevant to alignments of players in this game. If he, or you in backing him up, are unable to provide more examples from memory than I would say that this is not nearly as big of a trend as he and you are saying.

The question I want to figure out is how that reflects his alignment. Is he town misremembering or scum pushing a false narrative. My hopes in getting him to speak more about this is to get more info about this specific context but also provide more info about himself. And your deflection for him is preventing that

Vote: galz

Or, you know, you can stop being lazy and look it up yourself if you care that much. Especially as you're the one claiming Mcmc's claim is Fake News. Try harder. Sad.
Logged
Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

The_Wine_Merchant

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #190 on: March 15, 2018, 08:07:31 pm »

Fuck that.

I am asking him for memories. I am not going to go do work that you just said was useless. I have no memories of what mcmc's stating.

You are being a piece of work. Let mcmc answer for himself.
Logged
Wins: M91, M96, NM10, M98, M102, M105
Losses: M100, M103, M104, M109, M112

MVPs: M91, M96
Win percentage: 54.5 (6/11)

The_Wine_Merchant

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #191 on: March 15, 2018, 08:08:17 pm »

And screw you for calling me lazy. What makes you think that is an acceptable thing to call me?
Logged
Wins: M91, M96, NM10, M98, M102, M105
Losses: M100, M103, M104, M109, M112

MVPs: M91, M96
Win percentage: 54.5 (6/11)

Galzria

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #192 on: March 15, 2018, 08:14:31 pm »

Fuck that.

I am asking him for memories. I am not going to go do work that you just said was useless. I have no memories of what mcmc's stating.

You are being a piece of work. Let mcmc answer for himself.

Nobody is talking about memories. We're talking about recorded games. Mcmc is welcome to answer, but it's a waste of time for him to pull examples from games that are a) recent, and b) available for anybody to read.
Logged
Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

The_Wine_Merchant

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #193 on: March 15, 2018, 08:17:56 pm »

Fuck that.

I am asking him for memories. I am not going to go do work that you just said was useless. I have no memories of what mcmc's stating.

You are being a piece of work. Let mcmc answer for himself.

Nobody is talking about memories. We're talking about recorded games. Mcmc is welcome to answer, but it's a waste of time for him to pull examples from games that are a) recent, and b) available for anybody to read.
I am talking about memories!

ME! This entire fucking time. I have never asked him to pull examples and quote from games. I asked him for more examples. If he can't remember any specifically then I have a feeling that there aren't as many as he thinks there is. You are a journalist right?

And I agree it is a waste of time for him to pull examples. So why would it not be a waste of time for me? Is his time more precious than mine? He made the statement that implicated someone else as scummy. If he wants to convince me, which was his goal, he has to do the work (again, giving examples that he can think of). Not me. He gave one. Which is obviously biasing his memory.

But whatever. After this post I am letting this point drop and just going to try and get people to lynch you or him.
Logged
Wins: M91, M96, NM10, M98, M102, M105
Losses: M100, M103, M104, M109, M112

MVPs: M91, M96
Win percentage: 54.5 (6/11)

The_Wine_Merchant

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #194 on: March 15, 2018, 08:18:51 pm »

vote: galz
vote: galz
vote: galz

Hey Robz vote: galz

space, you sometimes listen to me, what you think about vote: galz?

schadd? Go vote: galz

WW - come vote: galz with me.
Logged
Wins: M91, M96, NM10, M98, M102, M105
Losses: M100, M103, M104, M109, M112

MVPs: M91, M96
Win percentage: 54.5 (6/11)

Galzria

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #195 on: March 15, 2018, 08:25:40 pm »

Fuck that.

I am asking him for memories. I am not going to go do work that you just said was useless. I have no memories of what mcmc's stating.

You are being a piece of work. Let mcmc answer for himself.

Nobody is talking about memories. We're talking about recorded games. Mcmc is welcome to answer, but it's a waste of time for him to pull examples from games that are a) recent, and b) available for anybody to read.
I am talking about memories!

ME! This entire fucking time. I have never asked him to pull examples and quote from games. I asked him for more examples. If he can't remember any specifically then I have a feeling that there aren't as many as he thinks there is. You are a journalist right?

And I agree it is a waste of time for him to pull examples. So why would it not be a waste of time for me? Is his time more precious than mine? He made the statement that implicated someone else as scummy. If he wants to convince me, which was his goal, he has to do the work (again, giving examples that he can think of). Not me. He gave one. Which is obviously biasing his memory.

But whatever. After this post I am letting this point drop and just going to try and get people to lynch you or him.

He literally said "I'll get other examples of forced", to which WW responded "Consider yourself forced".

All I've claimed is that it was (is) a waste of time. You even agree:

"And I agree it is a waste of time for him to pull examples."

I don't think his time is more valuable than yours. But you claimed his assertion to be Fake News. The records are there for anyone to check if they desire - what I suggest is that prior to attempting to discredit him you actually do the research. Or not. But then you shouldn't be attempting to discredit him.
Logged
Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

SpaceAnemone

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #196 on: March 15, 2018, 08:38:33 pm »

Galzria: Really low on content. Only five game posts, and two of them were quoting schadd's "I agree with you that I am town" statement: once at #78, and then again at #141. The only other thing he's contributed was support for mcmc about not giving town points to Joseph. While I understand other people's frustration with too much being read into Joseph's undirected behaviour, I think Galz was too curt, and almost aggressive sounding in his demand that other people don't ask for mcmc to back up his statement. We want town players to be able to offer watertight arguments.. I'm really not sure where Galz was coming from there.

We don't want players (town or scum) wasting their time going back and providing examples of things that can easily be checked for their accuracy. Mcmc, like all of us, has a limited amount of time to play. I would much rather him contribute alignment indicative content relevant to this game then spend his time pulling up quotes from other games.

Yeah, but are TWM and I the only two not to know what actions mcmc is talking about? I live in a world where it's totally normal not to buy into someone's claims when they don't cite their sources.

Let's be clear, It's also fair for mcmc not to invest time up-front re-remembering what games he's talking about immediately if he's not sure those pointers are necessary. Now that some of his audience here have indicated that actually, we're not aware of what he's referring to, it's a bit different, though. If the point he was making earlier was weak or unimportant to begin with, maybe he's happy to let it slide. However, if he wants to have people put weight in his argument, or take it as a good justification for his game stance, then he's probably going to have to throw in a couple more pointers.

Honestly, I'm coming at this from what feels like a really utilitarian angle: balance mcm spending ~5 minutes recalling a handful of games he played/followed in the right sort of timeframe, and then throwing out one or two more examples of vaguely where it happened (say, D1 of MXXX, or somewhere right at the opening if MYYY), against some small number of people (at least two) opening a game we may never have read, taking time to understand the setup, roles, searching through all the flips to find out who was what faction, and then reading D1 and maybe D2 to look for things mcmc might have perceived as the relevant sort of behaviour. I think the time sunk is at least an order of magnitude different for the same goal.

PPE fourish.
Logged
Congratulations! Your SpaceAnemone evolved into UniverseAnemone!
Town games: M84(L), M85(W), M86(L), M87(W), M88(L), M90(L), M92(W), M94(L), M97(L), M99(W), M100(L), M104(W), M107(W), M110(L), M112(L), RMM37(L), RMM40(D), RMM41(L), RMM43(L), RMM47(W), ZM23(W).
Scum games: M89(D), M108(L), NM8(W&MVP), NM10(L)   Mod: NM9, RMM38, RMM42.   Pronouns: they/them

The_Wine_Merchant

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #197 on: March 15, 2018, 08:45:31 pm »

I don't give a flying fuck. mcmc wanted to convince me and other players of something. He failed to do so. That is on him. Not me. If he doesn't want to convince me, fine. I'll stay that way.

Nor was it a reason for me voting for him.

Galz have you talked about anything actually worth while today?
Logged
Wins: M91, M96, NM10, M98, M102, M105
Losses: M100, M103, M104, M109, M112

MVPs: M91, M96
Win percentage: 54.5 (6/11)

Galzria

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #198 on: March 15, 2018, 08:47:36 pm »

I don't give a flying fuck. mcmc wanted to convince me and other players of something. He failed to do so. That is on him. Not me. If he doesn't want to convince me, fine. I'll stay that way.

Nor was it a reason for me voting for him.

Galz have you talked about anything actually worth while today?

Have you?
Logged
Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

SpaceAnemone

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #199 on: March 15, 2018, 08:49:57 pm »

vote: galz
vote: galz
vote: galz

Hey Robz vote: galz

space, you sometimes listen to me, what you think about vote: galz?

schadd? Go vote: galz

WW - come vote: galz with me.


It's all a bit charged just now, isn't it? Your main argument against Galz feels to me like it's just that he's coming over as a bit arrogant on mcmc's behalf for expecting us to take what mcmc says as gospel without digging into it. To me it comes across as "establishment" not enjoying one of their own being questioned by less-cultured upstarts ;-) I don't think scum!Galz would be making a good play here by going this all-out against your (my?) stance, nor by getting all het up about someone pushing a partner, so right now I feel it's unlikely to be very alignment-indicative.
Logged
Congratulations! Your SpaceAnemone evolved into UniverseAnemone!
Town games: M84(L), M85(W), M86(L), M87(W), M88(L), M90(L), M92(W), M94(L), M97(L), M99(W), M100(L), M104(W), M107(W), M110(L), M112(L), RMM37(L), RMM40(D), RMM41(L), RMM43(L), RMM47(W), ZM23(W).
Scum games: M89(D), M108(L), NM8(W&MVP), NM10(L)   Mod: NM9, RMM38, RMM42.   Pronouns: they/them

SpaceAnemone

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #200 on: March 15, 2018, 08:54:22 pm »

BTW, faust and his partner are staying with me from tomorrow till Thursday next week, so I might be more distracted by real life than usual :-)
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Scum games: M89(D), M108(L), NM8(W&MVP), NM10(L)   Mod: NM9, RMM38, RMM42.   Pronouns: they/them

The_Wine_Merchant

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #201 on: March 15, 2018, 09:32:32 pm »

so right now I feel it's unlikely to be very alignment-indicative.
It isn't. But it would make me feel better if we lynched him :)
Logged
Wins: M91, M96, NM10, M98, M102, M105
Losses: M100, M103, M104, M109, M112

MVPs: M91, M96
Win percentage: 54.5 (6/11)

The_Wine_Merchant

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #202 on: March 15, 2018, 09:43:37 pm »

I don't give a flying fuck. mcmc wanted to convince me and other players of something. He failed to do so. That is on him. Not me. If he doesn't want to convince me, fine. I'll stay that way.

Nor was it a reason for me voting for him.

Galz have you talked about anything actually worth while today?

Have you?

Let's compare:

TWM - 26 posts
1 - in post
2 - RVS joseph vote
3 - Fake news post questioning mcmc
4 - response to you that I can remain skeptical of mcmc
5 - considering potential benefit of mass claiming
6 - more on mcmc subject
7 - more on mass claim
8 - stating we get flips at lynches, point a bunch of people apparently missed
9 - responding to Space about meta PRs
10 - again talking to space about PRs
11 - calling mcmc paranoid for people giving joseph towncred
12 - clarifying that theorel did give joseph towncred
13 - vote for mcmc
14 - asking awaclus if anyone has townslipped
15 - agreeing with theorel's vote on mcmc
16 - speculating on possibility of theorel bussing
17 - busy post
18 - disagree with you #1
19 - disagree with you #2
20 - clarifying a question with WW about theorel
21 - disagree with you #3
22 - disagree with you #4
23 - disagree with you #5
24 - disagree with you #6
25 - asking if you have done anything today
26 - saying it would be fun to lynch Galz

Galz - 14 posts:

1 - in
2 - saying mcmc doesn't have to give evidence
3 - good point to schadd
4 - vote for ww
5 - reasoning for vote
6 - further clarifying
7 - disagreeing with space, catalyst for argument with me
8 - disagree with me #1
9 - disagree with me #2
10 - funny response to awaclus being awaclus
11 - disagree with me #3
12 - disagree with me #4
13 - disagree with me #5
14 - asking me if I have done anything

So yeah, I would say that I have contributed more than you, you have a total of one post (combining numbers 4, 5 and 6) that are actually useful. You, and others, can be the judge of me.

Who is lazy now?
Logged
Wins: M91, M96, NM10, M98, M102, M105
Losses: M100, M103, M104, M109, M112

MVPs: M91, M96
Win percentage: 54.5 (6/11)

schadd

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #203 on: March 15, 2018, 09:55:58 pm »

so right now I feel it's unlikely to be very alignment-indicative.
It isn't. But it would make me feel better if we lynched him :)

Logged
I thought you thought it was a slip because I said 'Jake's partners' instead of 'Roadrunner7671.'

Galzria

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #204 on: March 15, 2018, 09:57:09 pm »

I asked if you had contributed anything useful, not if you had posted more.
Logged
Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

The_Wine_Merchant

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #205 on: March 15, 2018, 09:58:33 pm »

I asked if you had contributed anything useful, not if you had posted more.

Logged
Wins: M91, M96, NM10, M98, M102, M105
Losses: M100, M103, M104, M109, M112

MVPs: M91, M96
Win percentage: 54.5 (6/11)

The_Wine_Merchant

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #206 on: March 15, 2018, 09:59:19 pm »

Open question to anyone that wants to help me out here.

Were more of my posts intrinsically more useful than the one post of Galz that was useful?

Thanks.
Logged
Wins: M91, M96, NM10, M98, M102, M105
Losses: M100, M103, M104, M109, M112

MVPs: M91, M96
Win percentage: 54.5 (6/11)

schadd

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #207 on: March 15, 2018, 10:10:36 pm »

Were more of my posts intrinsically more useful than the one post of Galz that was useful?
i don't see how this is productive


like would it for example implicate him as scum if he was in fact less useful than you thus far
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #208 on: March 15, 2018, 10:11:02 pm »

hey space if u r town can u magically communicate this fact to me as you often do
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #209 on: March 15, 2018, 10:18:33 pm »

Were more of my posts intrinsically more useful than the one post of Galz that was useful?
i don't see how this is productive


like would it for example implicate him as scum if he was in fact less useful than you thus far
Man. I am just trying to get Galz to contribute. But he appears to only have a purpose of antagonizing me.

If he is town, then he doesn't know I am town and is maybe trying to do this to get a read on me. But man is it an unfun way to play. If he is scum, I have to think he is trying to rile me up and get me lynched.
Logged
Wins: M91, M96, NM10, M98, M102, M105
Losses: M100, M103, M104, M109, M112

MVPs: M91, M96
Win percentage: 54.5 (6/11)

mcmcsalot

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #210 on: March 15, 2018, 11:27:01 pm »

i would dearly like mcmc to explain why he thought me and ww wasn't tvt when he has the opportunity

so, it may have been that I didn't get exactly what you were arguing over but it just struck me as a more "one-up" argument which I think is more likely to include scum as opposed to a purely nitpick argument.

dama
Logged
Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

Swowl

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #211 on: March 15, 2018, 11:28:00 pm »

Fuck that.

I am asking him for memories. I am not going to go do work that you just said was useless. I have no memories of what mcmc's stating.

You are being a piece of work. Let mcmc answer for himself.

Nobody is talking about memories. We're talking about recorded games. Mcmc is welcome to answer, but it's a waste of time for him to pull examples from games that are a) recent, and b) available for anybody to read.

By "recent" are you just referring to games that are close enough to memory to recall?
Logged
Jesus how did i fuck that up
real good. That’s how
Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

mcmcsalot

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #212 on: March 15, 2018, 11:29:46 pm »

I'm so serious I only voted once and I'm so serious I'm sticking to it because I am dead damned serious and y'all best not be having any fun because D1 is effing serious business and we are going to solve the scum team right here, right now and lynch them all and win the game before D2 even starts serious.
if this is a criticism idk what you're getting at

same
Logged
Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

Swowl

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #213 on: March 15, 2018, 11:30:35 pm »

I asked if you had contributed anything useful, not if you had posted more.

Do you believe he has contributed anything useful?
Logged
Jesus how did i fuck that up
real good. That’s how
Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

mcmcsalot

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #214 on: March 15, 2018, 11:30:57 pm »

I think I want to Vote: schadd right now

The "I think I want to" and "right now" portions of that message aren't exactly providing a lot of constructive logic or case beyond the naked vote...

I like this
Logged
Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

schadd

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #215 on: March 15, 2018, 11:40:11 pm »

i would dearly like mcmc to explain why he thought me and ww wasn't tvt when he has the opportunity

so, it may have been that I didn't get exactly what you were arguing over but it just struck me as a more "one-up" argument which I think is more likely to include scum as opposed to a purely nitpick argument.

dama
maaan u were all like "i stand by it"

can u point to anything specific that gave u that impression

uhhh perhaps when sober
Logged
I thought you thought it was a slip because I said 'Jake's partners' instead of 'Roadrunner7671.'

mcmcsalot

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #216 on: March 15, 2018, 11:41:34 pm »

Fuck that.

I am asking him for memories. I am not going to go do work that you just said was useless. I have no memories of what mcmc's stating.

You are being a piece of work. Let mcmc answer for himself.

this is aggressive, chill out and your scummy. I made the example of robz in smash bros where he suggested a masjclaim which neutered town and got towncred for it as scum. ill grab other examples tomorrow. but how about you try to play without the "twm is overemotional and angsty" meta for once
Logged
Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

mcmcsalot

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #217 on: March 15, 2018, 11:43:05 pm »

vote: galz
vote: galz
vote: galz

Hey Robz vote: galz

space, you sometimes listen to me, what you think about vote: galz?

schadd? Go vote: galz

WW - come vote: galz with me.


v ote: twm this is outrageous
Logged
Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

mcmcsalot

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #218 on: March 15, 2018, 11:46:02 pm »

so right now I feel it's unlikely to be very alignment-indicative.
It isn't. But it would make me feel better if we lynched him :)



you made me wake my wife up, you should think about the consequences of your actions
Logged
Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

The_Wine_Merchant

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #219 on: March 16, 2018, 12:05:33 am »

vote: galz
vote: galz
vote: galz

Hey Robz vote: galz

space, you sometimes listen to me, what you think about vote: galz?

schadd? Go vote: galz

WW - come vote: galz with me.


v ote: twm this is outrageous
Haha. Your vote doesn't count!

And don't be my mom. I'll chill when I want to chill.

Vote: mcmc
Logged
Wins: M91, M96, NM10, M98, M102, M105
Losses: M100, M103, M104, M109, M112

MVPs: M91, M96
Win percentage: 54.5 (6/11)

mcmcsalot

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #220 on: March 16, 2018, 12:14:35 am »

vote: galz
vote: galz
vote: galz

Hey Robz vote: galz

space, you sometimes listen to me, what you think about vote: galz?

schadd? Go vote: galz

WW - come vote: galz with me.


v ote: twm this is outrageous
Haha. Your vote doesn't count!

And don't be my mom. I'll chill when I want to chill.

Vote: mcmc
"look at me, I'm twm and I commit to votes off antagonism and emotion as opposed to reads, aren't I so towny"
Logged
Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

Swowl

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #221 on: March 16, 2018, 03:58:20 am »

vote: galz
vote: galz
vote: galz

Hey Robz vote: galz

space, you sometimes listen to me, what you think about vote: galz?

schadd? Go vote: galz

WW - come vote: galz with me.


v ote: twm this is outrageous
Haha. Your vote doesn't count!

And don't be my mom. I'll chill when I want to chill.

Vote: mcmc
"look at me, I'm twm and I commit to votes off antagonism and emotion as opposed to reads, aren't I so towny"

K so i disagree with this logic, but also appreciate that most i have encountered in this site seems to agree with it. However- what is the TWM motive here for risking attention to “appear towny”? There is no wagon on him, so if he is skum why would he make a scene?
Logged
Jesus how did i fuck that up
real good. That’s how
Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

Swowl

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #222 on: March 16, 2018, 04:39:19 am »

vote: galz
vote: galz
vote: galz

Hey Robz vote: galz

space, you sometimes listen to me, what you think about vote: galz?

schadd? Go vote: galz

WW - come vote: galz with me.



Why these players? I am voting Joseph, MC is also Joseph and the two of you are not fuefingbyet at this point, Awaclus isn’t voting, PPS is on Theroel, and Theroel is on MC.

This is super weird. Clearly you are pushing Galz at this point - but you never mention either of the players voting Joseph. Why not ask us to hop on the wagon too?

Logged
Jesus how did i fuck that up
real good. That’s how
Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

Swowl

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #223 on: March 16, 2018, 04:49:52 am »

Fuck that.

I am asking him for memories. I am not going to go do work that you just said was useless. I have no memories of what mcmc's stating.

You are being a piece of work. Let mcmc answer for himself.

this is aggressive, chill out and your scummy. I made the example of robz in smash bros where he suggested a masjclaim which neutered town and got towncred for it as scum. ill grab other examples tomorrow. but how about you try to play without the "twm is overemotional and angsty" meta for once

 So if he always uses the “over emotional approach”, then what is it that is skummy?
Logged
Jesus how did i fuck that up
real good. That’s how
Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

Joseph2302

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #224 on: March 16, 2018, 06:31:24 am »

Fuck that.

I am asking him for memories. I am not going to go do work that you just said was useless. I have no memories of what mcmc's stating.

You are being a piece of work. Let mcmc answer for himself.

this is aggressive, chill out and your scummy. I made the example of robz in smash bros where he suggested a masjclaim which neutered town and got towncred for it as scum. ill grab other examples tomorrow. but how about you try to play without the "twm is overemotional and angsty" meta for once

 So if he always uses the “over emotional approach”, then what is it that is skummy?
Nothing in particular makes it look scummy.
But this over emotion approach seems to be bordering on getting personal with others, which isn't the way it should be
Logged
Mafia Stats: (correct as of 2017)
Town: 22 games, 8 wins
Scum: 5 games, 3 wins

theorel

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #225 on: March 16, 2018, 07:59:33 am »

...


Why these players? I am voting Joseph, MC is also Joseph and the two of you are not fuefingbyet at this point, Awaclus isn’t voting, PPS is on Theroel, and Theroel is on MC.

This is super weird. Clearly you are pushing Galz at this point - but you never mention either of the players voting Joseph. Why not ask us to hop on the wagon too?
???
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theorel

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #226 on: March 16, 2018, 08:13:19 am »

I feel like the Galz-TWM thing is Galz antagonizing TWM, and TWM reacting to being antagonized.  I'm not getting anything alignment-useful from that interaction, mostly it just makes me uncomfortable, and I would rather games not go in that direction.  To me this situation should be defused not just by TWM not getting so riled up, but also by Galz not intentionally riling him up.  At some point in that conversation it could have been unintentional, but it hit a point where it just seems rude to me.

---
Regarding the substance of the argument.  I think that what actually happened (after looking back at the game) in smash bros is that Robz came out early for a mass-claim, and mcmc voted for him for it, and everyone else just ignored it and went forward with the claim (he did not get town-cred for it).  Later in that same game, O did something scummy (blocked a potential doctor), and got town-cred for it.  I think mcmc combined these things into a scum pushes mass-claim (which is scummy), and gets town-cred.  (I think it especially impacted mcmc because he found Robz scummy for it in Smash Bros, but didn't push it enough).

Enter this game, and someone pushes mass-claim.  I think an mcmc of either alignment sees that and reacts to it.  (either as scum seeing it as a good reason for framing, or as town seeing it and not wanting to let it get away this time).

Now maybe my perspective is off, I didn't review Lost (where TWM said this happened as well).  I don't know of any other recent games where this may have happened.  I already mentioned Gilmore Girls, where silver claimed mime as scum, which could be viewed as scum doing something scummy (though not pushing mass-claim).

Anyways, that's my 2 cents.
Logged

The_Wine_Merchant

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #227 on: March 16, 2018, 09:02:02 am »

vote: galz
vote: galz
vote: galz

Hey Robz vote: galz

space, you sometimes listen to me, what you think about vote: galz?

schadd? Go vote: galz

WW - come vote: galz with me.


v ote: twm this is outrageous
Haha. Your vote doesn't count!

And don't be my mom. I'll chill when I want to chill.

Vote: mcmc
"look at me, I'm twm and I commit to votes off antagonism and emotion as opposed to reads, aren't I so towny"
Please stop. I am asking civilly and politely.
Logged
Wins: M91, M96, NM10, M98, M102, M105
Losses: M100, M103, M104, M109, M112

MVPs: M91, M96
Win percentage: 54.5 (6/11)

The_Wine_Merchant

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #228 on: March 16, 2018, 09:03:59 am »

I am taking a 24 hour break from this game. Allowed per rules. I'll be back then
Logged
Wins: M91, M96, NM10, M98, M102, M105
Losses: M100, M103, M104, M109, M112

MVPs: M91, M96
Win percentage: 54.5 (6/11)

Witherweaver

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #229 on: March 16, 2018, 09:21:12 am »

We should remember scum has daychat

What was your thinking when you posted this?
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Witherweaver

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #230 on: March 16, 2018, 09:21:43 am »

BTW, faust and his partner are staying with me from tomorrow till Thursday next week, so I might be more distracted by real life than usual :-)

Sounds scummy.
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Joseph2302

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #231 on: March 16, 2018, 04:41:24 pm »

We should remember scum has daychat

What was your thinking when you posted this?
Presumably that scum are using their daychat.

Although it's be an interesting twist if TWM & Galzria are the 2 scum, and they planned a massive argument....
Logged
Mafia Stats: (correct as of 2017)
Town: 22 games, 8 wins
Scum: 5 games, 3 wins

Witherweaver

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #232 on: March 16, 2018, 04:48:13 pm »

Everyone loves answering for McMc this game!
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EFHW

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #233 on: March 16, 2018, 05:20:15 pm »

"What about me?" [Min's] grin stopped just short of outright laughter. "The same kind of things as the rest. A sword that isn't a sword, a golden crown of laurel leaves, a beggar's staff, you pouring water on sand, a bloody hand and a white-hot iron, three women standing over a funeral bier with you on it, black rock wet with blood--." "All right, ... you don't have to list it all."

Vote Count 1.3

Joseph2302 (2): mcmcsalot, DatSwan
Witherweaver (2): schadd, Galzria
mcmcsalot(4): Witherweaver, theorel, SpaceAnemone, The_Wine_Merchant
theorel (1): pingpongsam
schadd (1): Joseph2302

Not voting (2): Awaclus, Robz888

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day ends Sunday, March 18th at 4:45 p.m. Forum time.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #234 on: March 16, 2018, 05:21:00 pm »

v ote: twm this is outrageous

This vote not counted.
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Swowl

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #235 on: March 16, 2018, 05:42:06 pm »

...


Why these players? I am voting Joseph, MC is also Joseph and the two of you are not fuefingbyet at this point, Awaclus isn’t voting, PPS is on Theroel, and Theroel is on MC.

This is super weird. Clearly you are pushing Galz at this point - but you never mention either of the players voting Joseph. Why not ask us to hop on the wagon too?
???

ha. I think "feuding yet" ?
Logged
Jesus how did i fuck that up
real good. That’s how
Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

Galzria

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #236 on: March 16, 2018, 05:55:32 pm »

We should remember scum has daychat

What was your thinking when you posted this?
Presumably that scum are using their daychat.

Although it's be an interesting twist if TWM & Galzria are the 2 scum, and they planned a massive argument....

Plot twist!
Logged
Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

SpaceAnemone

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #237 on: March 16, 2018, 08:00:24 pm »

hey space if u r town can u magically communicate this fact to me as you often do

Um.. How about I accidentally switch into lurk mode because faust and his partner are here, and my lodger and I have been teaching them to play Space Alert IRL? :-)

Logged
Congratulations! Your SpaceAnemone evolved into UniverseAnemone!
Town games: M84(L), M85(W), M86(L), M87(W), M88(L), M90(L), M92(W), M94(L), M97(L), M99(W), M100(L), M104(W), M107(W), M110(L), M112(L), RMM37(L), RMM40(D), RMM41(L), RMM43(L), RMM47(W), ZM23(W).
Scum games: M89(D), M108(L), NM8(W&MVP), NM10(L)   Mod: NM9, RMM38, RMM42.   Pronouns: they/them

SpaceAnemone

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #238 on: March 16, 2018, 08:09:01 pm »

I think I want to Vote: schadd right now

The "I think I want to" and "right now" portions of that message aren't exactly providing a lot of constructive logic or case beyond the naked vote...

I like this

Okay, good, but you're still looking a likely lynch candidate unless someone offers up something pretty significant in the next 32-ish hours. None of the things you said in this slew of posts really added much to the game.

On deadlines, I'm likely to be mostly-unavailable from an hour or more before deadline because of plans with faust et al.
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Town games: M84(L), M85(W), M86(L), M87(W), M88(L), M90(L), M92(W), M94(L), M97(L), M99(W), M100(L), M104(W), M107(W), M110(L), M112(L), RMM37(L), RMM40(D), RMM41(L), RMM43(L), RMM47(W), ZM23(W).
Scum games: M89(D), M108(L), NM8(W&MVP), NM10(L)   Mod: NM9, RMM38, RMM42.   Pronouns: they/them

Swowl

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #239 on: March 17, 2018, 12:42:49 am »

Everyone loves answering for McMc this game!

Just kind of seems to be Joseph doing it actually i think.
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Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

Swowl

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #240 on: March 17, 2018, 01:45:17 am »

I feel like the Galz-TWM thing is Galz antagonizing TWM, and TWM reacting to being antagonized.  I'm not getting anything alignment-useful from that interaction, mostly it just makes me uncomfortable, and I would rather games not go in that direction.  To me this situation should be defused not just by TWM not getting so riled up, but also by Galz not intentionally riling him up.  At some point in that conversation it could have been unintentional, but it hit a point where it just seems rude to me.

---
Regarding the substance of the argument.  I think that what actually happened (after looking back at the game) in smash bros is that Robz came out early for a mass-claim, and mcmc voted for him for it, and everyone else just ignored it and went forward with the claim (he did not get town-cred for it).  Later in that same game, O did something scummy (blocked a potential doctor), and got town-cred for it.  I think mcmc combined these things into a scum pushes mass-claim (which is scummy), and gets town-cred.  (I think it especially impacted mcmc because he found Robz scummy for it in Smash Bros, but didn't push it enough).

Enter this game, and someone pushes mass-claim.  I think an mcmc of either alignment sees that and reacts to it.  (either as scum seeing it as a good reason for framing, or as town seeing it and not wanting to let it get away this time).

Now maybe my perspective is off, I didn't review Lost (where TWM said this happened as well).  I don't know of any other recent games where this may have happened.  I already mentioned Gilmore Girls, where silver claimed mime as scum, which could be viewed as scum doing something scummy (though not pushing mass-claim).

Anyways, that's my 2 cents.

2 cents to your 2 cents:

Galz v TWM - i agree that it seems to be NAI. I have no idea what to make of that for TWM. I cannot read him. Literally in the last game i played with him i let us flip for the lynch bc  i was so torn about having no idea i didn’t switch my vote in time trying to make up my mind. Also i have only read one Skum!Galz game... and so far not feeling skum!galz.


In LOST they are referring to II outright claiming Town!Posioner as skum goon at the beg of game i think.

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Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

Awaclus

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #241 on: March 17, 2018, 01:49:56 am »

These wagons suck.  Vote: WW sucks the least I guess.
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Swowl

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #242 on: March 17, 2018, 04:38:15 am »

I will be working a lot this weekend. I will make sure to be around as much as possible, especially towards DL. Here is my super un-helpful list at this point:


Skummy:

Joseph2302 - Very little since my last read. Combined with the need to speak for other players, which I find skumish, still leaning skum here.

mcmcsalot - Initially I did not think much of the comments on the WW/Schadd dialogue. Still don't really. However, combine that with pushing what I believe to be a push on Town!TWM is making me less sure. Just strikes me as potentially skum trying to find an out. Or not, IDK. Town!MC would have to do the same thing I suppose. I just feel like trying on TWM the way that was done seems like off.


Null:

Robz888 - Not here?

Galzria - Quiet for Galz. Really don't have an opinion at this point.

Awaclus - Same old same old. Suppose I could be down for a lynch here for the normal anti-town play reasons.

pingpongsam - I have absolutely no idea.

SpaceAnemone - Seems like normal Space to me. Don't know what that means, but not seeing a current reason to consider them for today's lynch.



Towny:

schadd - same as before. back an forth with WW seems TvT to me. Before and since has done nothing to make me believe otherwise.

TheWineMerchant - I think he is town. Mainly for the "emotional whatever" responses. I don't see why skum would draw attention to themselves like that ever, let alone D1.

Theorel - Only played on other game with them I think. I am town reading for the Joseph interactions early on as I previously stated. Since then, seems to be insightful. Could be well played under the radar skum I guess, but not on my lynch list today.

DatSwan - including myself on my reads list so PPS doesn't go on a tangent :P

Witherweaver - Seems to be the driving force at this point. Haven't played a lot with them so don't know what that means. I want to lean town, and then the wagon on him just kind of supports that I guess, so going with town for now.




TLDR: Would prefer to lynch Joseph or MC. Don't want to lynch schadd, TWM, WW or Theorel.
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Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

Joseph2302

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #243 on: March 17, 2018, 06:00:56 am »

Request prod: Awaclus and Robz
Neither have posted in ages.....
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Scum: 5 games, 3 wins

Joseph2302

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #244 on: March 17, 2018, 06:01:36 am »

Ignore prod request on Awaclus, I missed their post above..
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Scum: 5 games, 3 wins

Joseph2302

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #245 on: March 17, 2018, 06:02:14 am »

These wagons suck.  Vote: WW sucks the least I guess.
Why is WW scummy?
They've been active and driving the game on, seems towny to me
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Town: 22 games, 8 wins
Scum: 5 games, 3 wins

Awaclus

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #246 on: March 17, 2018, 06:11:05 am »

These wagons suck.  Vote: WW sucks the least I guess.
Why is WW scummy?
They've been active and driving the game on, seems towny to me

Reasons.
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Joseph2302

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #247 on: March 17, 2018, 06:32:21 am »

These wagons suck.  Vote: WW sucks the least I guess.
Why is WW scummy?
They've been active and driving the game on, seems towny to me

Reasons.
Not convinced they're good reasons
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Town: 22 games, 8 wins
Scum: 5 games, 3 wins

Awaclus

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #248 on: March 17, 2018, 06:34:53 am »

These wagons suck.  Vote: WW sucks the least I guess.
Why is WW scummy?
They've been active and driving the game on, seems towny to me

Reasons.
Not convinced they're good reasons

Not convinced they're bad reasons.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #249 on: March 17, 2018, 09:34:40 am »

Robz has been prodded.
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Robz888

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #250 on: March 17, 2018, 09:43:53 am »

Prod acknowledged. Today is last day of family vacation.
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theorel

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #251 on: March 17, 2018, 06:19:30 pm »

Deadline tomorrow...I'm probably not going to be around a lot between now and then.  I'll try to check in later tonight and tomorrow afternoon, but weekends are pretty busy for me generally.  Not that things are really moving around here anyways...And, people are here so that's it for me.  I'll try to post some more thoughts later.
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Robz888

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #252 on: March 17, 2018, 07:11:49 pm »

Back and caught up! We should lynch mcmc for his assertion that Schadd vs WW “doesn’t seem like town v town.”

It’s scummy because he didn’t explain it, qualify it, or follow it with a vote. It’s scummy specifically for mcmc, because town mcmc is thorough. Indeed, the thing I’ve learned most from my brother is to look for inconsistent reasoning and try to find scum.

If mcmc thought that feud contained scum, he really should have plopped a vote, no? Even if he wasn’t sure which one... a 50% chance is better than anything else we get Day 1.

On another matter, TWM vs Galz actually does seem town v town to me, because scum often tries to keep cool in those situations. Thought not always.

Vote: mcmc

I even agree with whoever said it, I think TWM, that theorel’s vote on mcmc seemed a bit like a bus!
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Witherweaver

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #253 on: March 17, 2018, 07:20:48 pm »

Back and caught up! We should lynch mcmc for his assertion that Schadd vs WW “doesn’t seem like town v town.”

It’s scummy because he didn’t explain it, qualify it, or follow it with a vote. It’s scummy specifically for mcmc, because town mcmc is thorough. Indeed, the thing I’ve learned most from my brother is to look for inconsistent reasoning and try to find scum.

If mcmc thought that feud contained scum, he really should have plopped a vote, no? Even if he wasn’t sure which one... a 50% chance is better than anything else we get Day 1.

On another matter, TWM vs Galz actually does seem town v town to me, because scum often tries to keep cool in those situations. Thought not always.

Vote: mcmc

I even agree with whoever said it, I think TWM, that theorel’s vote on mcmc seemed a bit like a bus!

This kind of weakly implies that you don't think that me and Schadd seemed like town v town.
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Robz888

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #254 on: March 17, 2018, 07:26:22 pm »

Back and caught up! We should lynch mcmc for his assertion that Schadd vs WW “doesn’t seem like town v town.”

It’s scummy because he didn’t explain it, qualify it, or follow it with a vote. It’s scummy specifically for mcmc, because town mcmc is thorough. Indeed, the thing I’ve learned most from my brother is to look for inconsistent reasoning and try to find scum.

If mcmc thought that feud contained scum, he really should have plopped a vote, no? Even if he wasn’t sure which one... a 50% chance is better than anything else we get Day 1.

On another matter, TWM vs Galz actually does seem town v town to me, because scum often tries to keep cool in those situations. Thought not always.

Vote: mcmc

I even agree with whoever said it, I think TWM, that theorel’s vote on mcmc seemed a bit like a bus!

This kind of weakly implies that you don't think that me and Schadd seemed like town v town.

Because neither of you lost your tempers? As I said, I mean, not necessarily. I always think you're scum, and you always are, so I would have voted for you in that exchange... but mcmc not voting for either of you is scummier than just, uh, you being you.
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Witherweaver

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #255 on: March 17, 2018, 07:28:01 pm »

Well, particularly:

Quote
On another matter, TWM vs Galz actually does seem town v town to me,
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Robz888

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #256 on: March 17, 2018, 07:32:44 pm »

Well, particularly:

Quote
On another matter, TWM vs Galz actually does seem town v town to me,

I meant, in contrast with mcmc's opinion on schadd vs. witherweaver. I didn't emphasize the actually, you did.
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Galzria

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #257 on: March 17, 2018, 07:34:20 pm »

vote: mcmc. I dig that.

Although 'not-trying-Robz' is usually town!Robz, so this could definitely be scum!Robz here. Still, I like to believe in the quality of player Robz can be as town, instead of usually is. Call it a soft spot.
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Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Robz888

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #258 on: March 17, 2018, 07:35:32 pm »

vote: mcmc. I dig that.

Although 'not-trying-Robz' is usually town!Robz, so this could definitely be scum!Robz here. Still, I like to believe in the quality of player Robz can be as town, instead of usually is. Call it a soft spot.

I'm so sick of getting called out for not tying hard enough, I'm gonna try so hard you'll be CONVINCED I'm scum!
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Galzria

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #259 on: March 17, 2018, 07:39:30 pm »

vote: mcmc. I dig that.

Although 'not-trying-Robz' is usually town!Robz, so this could definitely be scum!Robz here. Still, I like to believe in the quality of player Robz can be as town, instead of usually is. Call it a soft spot.

I'm so sick of getting called out for not tying hard enough, I'm gonna try so hard you'll be CONVINCED I'm scum!

You can certainly be sick of it. That's fair. But I also know you won't deny it's truth.  ;)

And hey, to your point, look at the game you were survivor. You tried hard as hell and I (while scum myself) was absolutely convinced you were SK. Instead you damn near single handedly pulled a victory for town. So yeah - try so hard I won't be able to see you as anything but scum - because when you do it generally means good things for town.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Swowl

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #260 on: March 17, 2018, 07:46:57 pm »

We are L-1?
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Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

Galzria

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #261 on: March 17, 2018, 07:47:11 pm »

Can somebody with a better memory than I (or who has played these more recently than I) tell me how much scum partners with daychat have typically interacted within game? Does their ability to talk in QT make them more or less likely to directly interact here, or does it depend largely on the players?
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Galzria

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #262 on: March 17, 2018, 07:47:59 pm »

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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Galzria

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #263 on: March 17, 2018, 07:50:08 pm »

We are L-1?


Yes.

TBF - I haven't looked at a vote count this game until just now. I don't see L-1 as a reason to umvote mind you, but had Robz been an uncalled L-1 I would've just derphammered.

That said, L-1 is a good call.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Robz888

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #264 on: March 17, 2018, 07:50:28 pm »

It’s a little sad that I’ve set the bar for my own town play so low that a single decent post can set off scum!Robz alarm bells. Sad... or brilliant?

My evidence-free recollection is that townies with day chat end up posting less in thread, but this isn’t true for scum players.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #265 on: March 17, 2018, 07:55:29 pm »

I'm around and have been catching up. Those votes made me go off and check whether we'd just had a hammer, but my vote counter has just returned the following:

Joseph2302 (2): mcmcsalot, DatSwan
Witherweaver (2): schadd, Awaclus
theorel (1): pingpongsam
mcmcsalot (6): Witherweaver, theorel, SpaceAnemone, The_Wine_Merchant, Robz888, Galzria
schadd (1): Joseph2302
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Town games: M84(L), M85(W), M86(L), M87(W), M88(L), M90(L), M92(W), M94(L), M97(L), M99(W), M100(L), M104(W), M107(W), M110(L), M112(L), RMM37(L), RMM40(D), RMM41(L), RMM43(L), RMM47(W), ZM23(W).
Scum games: M89(D), M108(L), NM8(W&MVP), NM10(L)   Mod: NM9, RMM38, RMM42.   Pronouns: they/them

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #266 on: March 17, 2018, 08:01:22 pm »

I don't see the WW alternative wagon so much, but I don't mind Joseph as fallback. Why do theorel and schadd need to have votes on them at this stage?
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Town games: M84(L), M85(W), M86(L), M87(W), M88(L), M90(L), M92(W), M94(L), M97(L), M99(W), M100(L), M104(W), M107(W), M110(L), M112(L), RMM37(L), RMM40(D), RMM41(L), RMM43(L), RMM47(W), ZM23(W).
Scum games: M89(D), M108(L), NM8(W&MVP), NM10(L)   Mod: NM9, RMM38, RMM42.   Pronouns: they/them

Swowl

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #267 on: March 17, 2018, 08:04:33 pm »

We are L-1?


Yes.

TBF - I haven't looked at a vote count this game until just now. I don't see L-1 as a reason to umvote mind you, but had Robz been an uncalled L-1 I would've just derphammered.

That said, L-1 is a good call.

No inference on play from me. Was 100% clarifying to keep derps at bay
Logged
Jesus how did i fuck that up
real good. That’s how
Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

Witherweaver

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #268 on: March 17, 2018, 08:41:27 pm »

Well, particularly:

Quote
On another matter, TWM vs Galz actually does seem town v town to me,

I meant, in contrast with mcmc's opinion on schadd vs. witherweaver. I didn't emphasize the actually, you did.

I didn't mean to imply you emphasized it; I was pointing it out. Because it read to me like a tacit agreement of McMc's opinion.
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theorel

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #269 on: March 17, 2018, 10:06:59 pm »

Yay, Robz's back.  Boo, he thinks I'm bussing :(

I don't really understand what about my vote seems like bussing.  I was the first to explicitly point out why his post was scummy (rather than just naked voting him), which is the same point that Robz is making here (i.e. it's scummy because he claimed a non-town-v-town interaction without actually committing himself to anything (such as with a vote or reasoning)).  It's a post designed to draw attention towards those 2 players, and make people think they're scummy without drawing attention to himself.  An attempt which ultimately failed when I posted my argument and immediately got 2 agreements with it.

I'm somewhat concerned that we nail scum day-1, and then I get vigged, because of random claims that I'm bussing, without a reasonable chance to defend myself.
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theorel

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #270 on: March 17, 2018, 10:08:28 pm »

Now, I'm not saying that mcmc would have just flown under the radar had I not made my post, but I don't understand my scum-narrative in getting my version of the argument out there first, unless it was a bad argument that could be easily discredited, which the dual-agreement argues against.
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Robz888

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #271 on: March 17, 2018, 10:30:22 pm »

I'm somewhat concerned that we nail scum day-1, and then I get vigged, because of random claims that I'm bussing, without a reasonable chance to defend myself.

Not really something to be somewhat concerned about, lynching scum Day 1 is so great when it happens. I’m sure you don’t want to be vigged, but no one else does either, so.
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EFHW

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #272 on: March 17, 2018, 10:43:48 pm »

"Humans are so hasty."

Vote Count 1.4

Joseph2302 (2): mcmcsalot, DatSwan
Witherweaver (2): schadd, Awaclus
mcmcsalot(6): Witherweaver, theorel, SpaceAnemone, The_Wine_Merchant, Robz888, Galzria L-1
theorel (1): pingpongsam
schadd (1): Joseph2302

Not voting (0): 

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day ends Sunday, March 18th at 4:45 p.m. Forum time. That's in 18 hours.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2018, 10:57:00 pm by EFHW »
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Robz888

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #273 on: March 17, 2018, 10:52:33 pm »

You have Galz voting in two places
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EFHW

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #274 on: March 17, 2018, 10:57:28 pm »

fixed
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The_Wine_Merchant

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #275 on: March 17, 2018, 11:10:09 pm »

I am back. Apologies for my behaviors.
Logged
Wins: M91, M96, NM10, M98, M102, M105
Losses: M100, M103, M104, M109, M112

MVPs: M91, M96
Win percentage: 54.5 (6/11)

The_Wine_Merchant

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #276 on: March 17, 2018, 11:11:38 pm »

I even agree with whoever said it, I think TWM, that theorel’s vote on mcmc seemed a bit like a bus!

I actually am much less sure of that once I realized that scum only has two players. Scum with only one partner wouldn't buss early like that, whereas a scum with two partners would be more likely to do so.
Logged
Wins: M91, M96, NM10, M98, M102, M105
Losses: M100, M103, M104, M109, M112

MVPs: M91, M96
Win percentage: 54.5 (6/11)

The_Wine_Merchant

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #277 on: March 17, 2018, 11:12:48 pm »

Can somebody with a better memory than I (or who has played these more recently than I) tell me how much scum partners with daychat have typically interacted within game? Does their ability to talk in QT make them more or less likely to directly interact here, or does it depend largely on the players?
Having had a scum QT with daychat that I never used it had zero impact on me.
Logged
Wins: M91, M96, NM10, M98, M102, M105
Losses: M100, M103, M104, M109, M112

MVPs: M91, M96
Win percentage: 54.5 (6/11)

The_Wine_Merchant

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #278 on: March 17, 2018, 11:16:56 pm »

weird day. I think mcmc is the only wagon that has gotten above two votes.
Logged
Wins: M91, M96, NM10, M98, M102, M105
Losses: M100, M103, M104, M109, M112

MVPs: M91, M96
Win percentage: 54.5 (6/11)

The_Wine_Merchant

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #279 on: March 17, 2018, 11:18:06 pm »

Meaning, mcmc is probably not mafia.

unvote
Logged
Wins: M91, M96, NM10, M98, M102, M105
Losses: M100, M103, M104, M109, M112

MVPs: M91, M96
Win percentage: 54.5 (6/11)

The_Wine_Merchant

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #280 on: March 17, 2018, 11:19:54 pm »

vote: schadd
Logged
Wins: M91, M96, NM10, M98, M102, M105
Losses: M100, M103, M104, M109, M112

MVPs: M91, M96
Win percentage: 54.5 (6/11)

The_Wine_Merchant

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #281 on: March 17, 2018, 11:24:05 pm »

Reason is that he has stayed completely away from the mcmc wagon. It is obviously the biggest thing going on in the game, but he hasn't voted for him or defended him. He has just ignored it except to say "reasonable" to me and someone else that voted for him.

If mcmc is town then schadd stays off the mislynch wagon. If mcmc is scum, then I don't expect schadd to act this way, but I don't really think mcmc is scum.
Logged
Wins: M91, M96, NM10, M98, M102, M105
Losses: M100, M103, M104, M109, M112

MVPs: M91, M96
Win percentage: 54.5 (6/11)

The_Wine_Merchant

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #282 on: March 17, 2018, 11:24:51 pm »

Although schadd hasn't been around since the 15th, so hasn't been around to talk about mcmc as much.

prod: schadd
Logged
Wins: M91, M96, NM10, M98, M102, M105
Losses: M100, M103, M104, M109, M112

MVPs: M91, M96
Win percentage: 54.5 (6/11)

Galzria

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #283 on: March 17, 2018, 11:25:41 pm »

I'm somewhat concerned that we nail scum day-1, and then I get vigged, because of random claims that I'm bussing, without a reasonable chance to defend myself.

Not really something to be somewhat concerned about, lynching scum Day 1 is so great when it happens. I’m sure you don’t want to be vigged, but no one else does either, so.

I agree. This seems an odd fear. Even were I say, a cop, if we lynched mafia D1 I wouldn't be at all bitter about being vigged N1.

Not to mention... being Vigged is an oddly specific way to worry about dying. Not SK'd, not Mafia Killed... Vigged. I dunno. Rubs me wrong to be concerned about that in particular.
Logged
Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

EFHW

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #284 on: March 17, 2018, 11:29:40 pm »

schadd has been prodded.
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schadd

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #285 on: March 17, 2018, 11:41:57 pm »

Reason is that he has stayed completely away from the mcmc wagon. It is obviously the biggest thing going on in the game, but he hasn't voted for him or defended him. He has just ignored it except to say "reasonable" to me and someone else that voted for him.

If mcmc is town then schadd stays off the mislynch wagon. If mcmc is scum, then I don't expect schadd to act this way, but I don't really think mcmc is scum.
i wanted to see if/how galz would leave ww

i asked mcmc what he thought was not tvt

vote: mcmc L-1 people don't tend to defend scum partners on this site, or even avoid voting them really

i townread swan
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I thought you thought it was a slip because I said 'Jake's partners' instead of 'Roadrunner7671.'

The_Wine_Merchant

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #286 on: March 17, 2018, 11:42:56 pm »

weird
Logged
Wins: M91, M96, NM10, M98, M102, M105
Losses: M100, M103, M104, M109, M112

MVPs: M91, M96
Win percentage: 54.5 (6/11)

Swowl

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #287 on: March 18, 2018, 03:27:05 am »

We are L-1?


Yes.

TBF - I haven't looked at a vote count this game until just now. I don't see L-1 as a reason to umvote mind you, but had Robz been an uncalled L-1 I would've just derphammered.

That said, L-1 is a good call.

I can't decide if this post is actually towny for stating essentially he wasn't paying attention to the vote count, or if its a purposeful town-slip by skum.
Logged
Jesus how did i fuck that up
real good. That’s how
Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

Swowl

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #288 on: March 18, 2018, 03:27:59 am »

Reason is that he has stayed completely away from the mcmc wagon. It is obviously the biggest thing going on in the game, but he hasn't voted for him or defended him. He has just ignored it except to say "reasonable" to me and someone else that voted for him.

If mcmc is town then schadd stays off the mislynch wagon. If mcmc is scum, then I don't expect schadd to act this way, but I don't really think mcmc is scum.
i wanted to see if/how galz would leave ww

i asked mcmc what he thought was not tvt

vote: mcmc L-1 people don't tend to defend scum partners on this site, or even avoid voting them really

i townread swan

at the sake of sounding conceded - may I ask why?
Logged
Jesus how did i fuck that up
real good. That’s how
Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

Swowl

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #289 on: March 18, 2018, 03:31:39 am »

I'm somewhat concerned that we nail scum day-1, and then I get vigged, because of random claims that I'm bussing, without a reasonable chance to defend myself.

Not really something to be somewhat concerned about, lynching scum Day 1 is so great when it happens. I’m sure you don’t want to be vigged, but no one else does either, so.

I agree. This seems an odd fear. Even were I say, a cop, if we lynched mafia D1 I wouldn't be at all bitter about being vigged N1.

Not to mention... being Vigged is an oddly specific way to worry about dying. Not SK'd, not Mafia Killed... Vigged. I dunno. Rubs me wrong to be concerned about that in particular.

This is like a... very good catch by Galz. The wording here is super weird. Like super weird.

vote: Robz
Logged
Jesus how did i fuck that up
real good. That’s how
Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

pingpongsam

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #290 on: March 18, 2018, 07:45:48 am »

A shiny hammer? Vote: mcmc
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Joseph2302

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #291 on: March 18, 2018, 08:27:19 am »

A shiny hammer? Vote: mcmc
Yep that's the hammer
Logged
Mafia Stats: (correct as of 2017)
Town: 22 games, 8 wins
Scum: 5 games, 3 wins

Joseph2302

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #292 on: March 18, 2018, 08:28:11 am »

I'm somewhat concerned that we nail scum day-1, and then I get vigged, because of random claims that I'm bussing, without a reasonable chance to defend myself.

Not really something to be somewhat concerned about, lynching scum Day 1 is so great when it happens. I’m sure you don’t want to be vigged, but no one else does either, so.

I agree. This seems an odd fear. Even were I say, a cop, if we lynched mafia D1 I wouldn't be at all bitter about being vigged N1.

Not to mention... being Vigged is an oddly specific way to worry about dying. Not SK'd, not Mafia Killed... Vigged. I dunno. Rubs me wrong to be concerned about that in particular.

This is like a... very good catch by Galz. The wording here is super weird. Like super weird.

vote: Robz
Yes it is.
Town read in Galz for pointing it out, I'd probably have voted Robz for this. But hammer has already happened
Logged
Mafia Stats: (correct as of 2017)
Town: 22 games, 8 wins
Scum: 5 games, 3 wins

EFHW

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #293 on: March 18, 2018, 08:49:19 am »

An hour of twilight
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EFHW

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #294 on: March 18, 2018, 09:33:40 am »

Wash the spears — while the sun climbs high.
Wash the spears — while the sun falls low.
Wash the spears — Who fears to die?
Wash the spears — No one I know!

Wash the spears — while life holds true.
Wash the spears — until life ends.
Wash the spears...

...Wash the spears — Life is a dream.
Wash the spears — All dreams must end.


Final Day 1 Vote Count

Joseph2302 (1): mcmcsalot
Witherweaver (1): Awaclus
mcmcsalot (7): Witherweaver, theorel, SpaceAnemone, Robz888, Galzria, schadd, pingpongsam
schadd (2): Joseph2302, The_Wine_Merchant
Robz888 (1): DatSwan

Not voting (0): 

With 12 alive, it took 7 to lynch.

mcmcsalot has awoken from the dream. al'Lan Mandragoran, Uncrowned King of Malkier, Dai Shan, Aan'allein is dead. He walked in the Light.

Day 2 starts Tuesday, March 20 at 10:30 a.m. forum time. Orders due by 8 a.m. that day.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2018, 09:40:43 am by EFHW »
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EFHW

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #295 on: March 18, 2018, 09:39:47 am »

THREAD LOCKED
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EFHW

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - N1
« Reply #296 on: March 20, 2018, 06:59:24 am »

Orders due in one hour.
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EFHW

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - N1
« Reply #297 on: March 20, 2018, 10:18:04 am »

Graendal lounged in her overstuffed velvet chair hanging high above the violet dome. She sipped her wine and smoothed the skirts of her barely opaque streith gown, looking forward to seeing the fruition of her carefully laid plans. The Dreamspike Moridin had given her was working perfectly. Her breath caught as she saw the first body fall limp to the ground. After the second collapse, she licked her lips in anticipation. But no one else died. Furious, she stood and threw her goblet to the non-existent floor. It vanished as she paid it no more mind. Her gown had changed from a shimmering rose color to the roiling black of threatening thunderclouds. Thwarted? By primitives such as these! She felt fear approaching, the doom of facing the Dark Lord's displeasure. But she pushed it aside. She was Graendal, she always had another plan.

Datswan and Awaclus are dead.


Day 2 Start

Vote Count 2.0

Not voting (9):
Galzria, Joseph2303, pingpongsam, Robz888, schadd, Space Anemone, The_Wine_Merchant, theorel, Witherweaver

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day ends Tuesday, March 27th at 5:00 p.m.

THREAD UNLOCKED
« Last Edit: March 20, 2018, 10:23:09 am by EFHW »
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theorel

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - N1
« Reply #298 on: March 20, 2018, 10:53:50 am »

I don't think it really hit me until seeing the deaths just now...how tough it would be getting no information from nks.
Well, let's see...without knowing anything else, we're missing a kill, it was either blocked or collided.

Awaclus seems like an unlikely scum kill for either SK or mafia.  He was not exactly highly participatory, not really a town-read.  I guess scum could kill him as a wild-card, but I'd expect lots of others first.  So, I'm guessing he was the vig-kill.

Datswan seems like a more likely scum-kill.  Pretty townie all-in-all, I think, might be worth reviewing his reads to see if scum might have killed him for his suspicions?

Interestingly, both kills are off-wagon.  Ups the chances that scum was on-wagon.  If at least both mafia are on-wagon, that gives pretty good chances of finding them.  Just from final vote-count ww and robz come off a bit scummy.
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theorel

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #299 on: March 20, 2018, 11:01:10 am »

I'm somewhat concerned that we nail scum day-1, and then I get vigged, because of random claims that I'm bussing, without a reasonable chance to defend myself.

Not really something to be somewhat concerned about, lynching scum Day 1 is so great when it happens. I’m sure you don’t want to be vigged, but no one else does either, so.

I agree. This seems an odd fear. Even were I say, a cop, if we lynched mafia D1 I wouldn't be at all bitter about being vigged N1.

Not to mention... being Vigged is an oddly specific way to worry about dying. Not SK'd, not Mafia Killed... Vigged. I dunno. Rubs me wrong to be concerned about that in particular.

Glancing back up the page, I'm reminded of this, which I didn't have a chance to respond to yesterday before the day ended.  I was specifically concerned about being suspected of bussing mcmc, so in that instance vig is the only kill I'd be worried about.  I'm not sure why that seems odd to you, but obviously other people agreed.  In hindsight as Robz said, being nk'd after a day1 scum-kill is not really a big deal...I think, maybe I was just feeling good about hitting on what I thought was scum, and kind of bummed out that people thought I was bussing.
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theorel

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - N1
« Reply #300 on: March 20, 2018, 11:23:39 am »

Okay, rereading Datswan...looks like he was early suspicious of mcmc and Joseph.  Then his vote for Robz, seems to have been a misunderstanding of Galz' post above, since he interpreted it against Robz, when I think it's just against me?

So, I doubt Robz would feel compelled to kill him over it.  Maybe Joseph, but I'm not putting high likelihood on it only applies to one person.
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Robz888

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - N1
« Reply #301 on: March 20, 2018, 11:56:17 am »

I'm somewhat concerned that we nail scum day-1, and then I get vigged, because of random claims that I'm bussing, without a reasonable chance to defend myself.

Not really something to be somewhat concerned about, lynching scum Day 1 is so great when it happens. I’m sure you don’t want to be vigged, but no one else does either, so.

I agree. This seems an odd fear. Even were I say, a cop, if we lynched mafia D1 I wouldn't be at all bitter about being vigged N1.

Not to mention... being Vigged is an oddly specific way to worry about dying. Not SK'd, not Mafia Killed... Vigged. I dunno. Rubs me wrong to be concerned about that in particular.

Glancing back up the page, I'm reminded of this, which I didn't have a chance to respond to yesterday before the day ended.  I was specifically concerned about being suspected of bussing mcmc, so in that instance vig is the only kill I'd be worried about.  I'm not sure why that seems odd to you, but obviously other people agreed.  In hindsight as Robz said, being nk'd after a day1 scum-kill is not really a big deal...I think, maybe I was just feeling good about hitting on what I thought was scum, and kind of bummed out that people thought I was bussing.

It's just that scum worries about this way more than town. If you're town it's bad for you to get vigged, but it's bad for any member of the town to get vigged.
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Witherweaver

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - N1
« Reply #302 on: March 20, 2018, 12:50:48 pm »

Okay, rereading Datswan...looks like he was early suspicious of mcmc and Joseph.  Then his vote for Robz, seems to have been a misunderstanding of Galz' post above, since he interpreted it against Robz, when I think it's just against me?

So, I doubt Robz would feel compelled to kill him over it.  Maybe Joseph, but I'm not putting high likelihood on it only applies to one person.

I agree with this.
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Joseph2302

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - N1
« Reply #303 on: March 20, 2018, 01:08:02 pm »

I don't think it really hit me until seeing the deaths just now...how tough it would be getting no information from nks.
Well, let's see...without knowing anything else, we're missing a kill, it was either blocked or collided.

Awaclus seems like an unlikely scum kill for either SK or mafia.  He was not exactly highly participatory, not really a town-read.  I guess scum could kill him as a wild-card, but I'd expect lots of others first.  So, I'm guessing he was the vig-kill.

Datswan seems like a more likely scum-kill.  Pretty townie all-in-all, I think, might be worth reviewing his reads to see if scum might have killed him for his suspicions?

Interestingly, both kills are off-wagon.  Ups the chances that scum was on-wagon.  If at least both mafia are on-wagon, that gives pretty good chances of finding them.  Just from final vote-count ww and robz come off a bit scummy.
I agree that Awaclus looks like a vig kill. He wasn't looking that towny IMO.
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Joseph2302

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #304 on: March 20, 2018, 02:38:43 pm »

Wash the spears — while the sun climbs high.
Wash the spears — while the sun falls low.
Wash the spears — Who fears to die?
Wash the spears — No one I know!

Wash the spears — while life holds true.
Wash the spears — until life ends.
Wash the spears...

...Wash the spears — Life is a dream.
Wash the spears — All dreams must end.


Final Day 1 Vote Count

Joseph2302 (1): mcmcsalot
Witherweaver (1): Awaclus
mcmcsalot (7): Witherweaver, theorel, SpaceAnemone, Robz888, Galzria, schadd, pingpongsam
schadd (2): Joseph2302, The_Wine_Merchant
Robz888 (1): DatSwan

Not voting (0): 

With 12 alive, it took 7 to lynch.

mcmcsalot has awoken from the dream. al'Lan Mandragoran, Uncrowned King of Malkier, Dai Shan, Aan'allein is dead. He walked in the Light.

Day 2 starts Tuesday, March 20 at 10:30 a.m. forum time. Orders due by 8 a.m. that day.

So the off-wagon people were mcmc, Awaclus, me, TWM & DatSean. And of those, 3 are dead. That's interesting.
But this no flip thing is weird, we'd have so much more info with a flip (obviously).
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Joseph2302

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #305 on: March 20, 2018, 02:39:04 pm »

I'm thinking at least 1, and maybe 2, scum were on the D1 wagon
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Witherweaver

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #306 on: March 20, 2018, 03:44:05 pm »

I'm thinking at least 1, and maybe 2, scum were on the D1 wagon

Doesn't this imply that you think TWM is scum?
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #307 on: March 20, 2018, 03:44:39 pm »

And yourself if you don't land on '2'...
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Robz888

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #308 on: March 20, 2018, 03:53:01 pm »

I'm thinking at least 1, and maybe 2, scum were on the D1 wagon

Doesn't this imply that you think TWM is scum?

Well no it doesn't, because even though some of the other off-wagon folks are dead, we don't know their flips. Awaclus/DS are dead and off-wagon, but we don't know whether they are scum or not. Which makes wagon analysis a pretty useless scum hunting approach this game, actually.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #309 on: March 20, 2018, 05:19:52 pm »

And yourself if you don't land on '2'...
No because I think the people on wagon are scummy.
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Robz888

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #310 on: March 20, 2018, 05:30:17 pm »

I'm realizing that scum!theorel would have known mcmc was going to flip town, and thus would not have really had to worry about being vigged for seeming like mcmc's partner. So I guess I'm not really suspicious of him anymore.
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Witherweaver

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #311 on: March 20, 2018, 05:54:52 pm »

I'm thinking at least 1, and maybe 2, scum were on the D1 wagon

Doesn't this imply that you think TWM is scum?

Well no it doesn't, because even though some of the other off-wagon folks are dead, we don't know their flips. Awaclus/DS are dead and off-wagon, but we don't know whether they are scum or not. Which makes wagon analysis a pretty useless scum hunting approach this game, actually.

Oh, right, I forgot that.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #312 on: March 20, 2018, 06:52:40 pm »

vote: schadd
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Losses: M100, M103, M104, M109, M112

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Win percentage: 54.5 (6/11)

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #313 on: March 20, 2018, 06:55:35 pm »

Also would be happy with a pps lynch. Scummy behavior that fed does actually let people get away with: hammering unnecessarily fast
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #314 on: March 20, 2018, 08:43:45 pm »

Also would be happy with a pps lynch. Scummy behavior that fed does actually let people get away with: hammering unnecessarily fast

You mean, like, as policy? PPS has pretty much established that he'd do it as town or scum.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #315 on: March 20, 2018, 08:44:23 pm »

I think I'd be okay lynching Robz.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #316 on: March 20, 2018, 09:05:26 pm »

That mcmc lynch had far too much early momentum, which I'm guilty of supporting, so we didn't exactly make scum work hard for that mislynch.

However, I'm looking at what the other options would have been. I'd deliberately tried to open up a suggestion of moving to Joseph, but nobody did. Now that Datswan is the apparent NK, we have some confidence that he's town, meaning that Joseph would at that point have had two towns on his wagon  (Swan's move over to Robz came only one post before PPS's hammer. So the Joseph wagon should have been a good place to put a "look, I'm helping" scum-vote for towncred, but nobody took it that way. Maybe it's just coincidence, but I also think that's more likely to happen with Joseph as scum.
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Town games: M84(L), M85(W), M86(L), M87(W), M88(L), M90(L), M92(W), M94(L), M97(L), M99(W), M100(L), M104(W), M107(W), M110(L), M112(L), RMM37(L), RMM40(D), RMM41(L), RMM43(L), RMM47(W), ZM23(W).
Scum games: M89(D), M108(L), NM8(W&MVP), NM10(L)   Mod: NM9, RMM38, RMM42.   Pronouns: they/them

The_Wine_Merchant

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #317 on: March 20, 2018, 09:16:16 pm »

Also would be happy with a pps lynch. Scummy behavior that fed does actually let people get away with: hammering unnecessarily fast

You mean, like, as policy? PPS has pretty much established that he'd do it as town or scum.
As in it is scummy behavior, especially the wayit was done. With the first signs of dissent to the mcmc lynch and then boom before it happens there is a vote.

But I do think schadd is scummier from the before and after in regard to mcmc
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Losses: M100, M103, M104, M109, M112

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Win percentage: 54.5 (6/11)

theorel

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #318 on: March 21, 2018, 08:45:01 am »

Okay, I think I need a reads list to keep track of everybody...
Robz: absent much of day 1.  Comes back in support of the mcmc-lynch with I feel like good reasoning, but of course we now know that was a bad lynch.  After a fresh read, often town can come in with a new direction, scum would probably feel good about pushing the leading wagon.  Still, his arguments and reactions sound townier.  I'm going to lean town here, if that's right, it's unfortunate that he didn't come in with a new direction yesterday, but it is what it is.

Joseph: early mass-claim push, and then he kind of just laid low until later in the day where he kind of avoided talking about mcmc.  Says he's going to re-read "especially mcmc", but ends up voting schadd without explicit reasoning.  Which, while I don't know that it's particularly scummy, it doesn't help get anyone off of mcmc either.  This could easily be scum trying to avoid a known bad-lynch, while trying not to derail it.  I'm leaning a little scummy here.

schadd: He has that argument with ww, which now known-town mcmc thought included scum.  After TWM notes that only mcmc has gotten above 2 votes, and pushes him for inactivity...he makes a comment about galz, and joins mcmc?  (@schadd: what did you mean by "i wanted to see if/how galz would leave ww"?)  Also he joins mcmc after TWM points out that it's scummy that he stayed off.  Highest scum-read so far.

SpaceAnemone: joins the mcmc wagon early and sticks there.  She does try to prod people to give more info, offers reads, and generally seems to do pro-town work.  I'm reading town here.

TWM: was on mcmc before it was cool.  Then had an argument with galz. Then switched back to mcmc, until he unvoted later to try to make other things happen (like schadd).  He reads town to me for how this went down, even though it's something scum might like to do to distance themselves from a bad lynch.  I guess I might be influenced by my scum-read of schadd, but I'm strongly reading him as town.

Theorel: I'm town, wee

Galzria: He agrees with mcmc, then agrees with schadd, then fights with TWM, over asking mcmc to provide examples, then agrees with robz, twice. He seems to be drawing his opinions from other players rather than providing his own...might be a higher scum-read than schadd.

Witherweaver: Argument with schadd, where he doesn't vote him. Ends up on mcmc, and sticks there while trying to pull arguments out of others. Pulled a good bit of heat over the day, but it never went anywhere...still, I'm going to tentatively lean town here.

pps: he voted for me early with no reason, and just stuck to it.  When providing an argument, it was "it's all really based on his initial posts", which doesn't really explain what he found scummy...then he defends it being forced because it's day1.  And then he hammered.  While the hammer is apparently NAI for pps, the rest reads scummy to me.  A lot like Joseph, he looked like he was trying to go somewhere other than pps, but didn't really push to make it happen.

I'm going to go ahead with vote: Galzria, though I could be persuaded to help with schadd. 
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #319 on: March 21, 2018, 05:44:42 pm »

I admit I am not in this game for reasons but I am going to get into tomorrow and Butts are going to get busted. Theorel still looks like scum with that last post. Mainly with how he prefaced it. It sounds like, “I need to make sure I stay congruent while influencing town and trying to appear towny”. To be fair it’s a pretty removed analysis that deserves more review.
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The_Wine_Merchant

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #320 on: March 21, 2018, 08:10:02 pm »

I haven’t played a ton with the Orel but that seems pretty par for the course for him. He did it in the mime game.

Prod: schadd who normally doesn’t need prodding
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Losses: M100, M103, M104, M109, M112

MVPs: M91, M96
Win percentage: 54.5 (6/11)

theorel

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #321 on: March 21, 2018, 09:39:26 pm »

I generally go to the sign-up post, grab the list of players, eliminate the dead ones, and make sure I know what everyone is doing.  I don't like to overlook the things that people are doing, it makes it too easy for scum to slip under the radar.
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theorel

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #322 on: March 21, 2018, 09:41:06 pm »

prod: Galzria he also has not yet posted today.
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Galzria

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #323 on: March 21, 2018, 10:29:24 pm »

I've been reading. Won't have time to do much today or tomorrow. Will try to get something in Friday morning. Completely unavailable Saturday/Sunday. Monday will be my first actually available day to post.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #324 on: March 21, 2018, 10:31:34 pm »

I've been reading. Won't have time to do much today or tomorrow. Will try to get something in Friday morning. Completely unavailable Saturday/Sunday. Monday will be my first actually available day to post.
What were your first impressions when you saw mcmc flip? Or awal or days wan dead? Reread a are nice, but Monday is a day before deadline.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #325 on: March 21, 2018, 10:50:05 pm »

schadd has been prodded.
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Galzria

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #326 on: March 21, 2018, 10:54:53 pm »

I've been reading. Won't have time to do much today or tomorrow. Will try to get something in Friday morning. Completely unavailable Saturday/Sunday. Monday will be my first actually available day to post.
What were your first impressions when you saw mcmc flip? Or awal or days wan dead? Reread a are nice, but Monday is a day before deadline.

It's not a reread issue, it's a work issue. I have a work deadline to run a swim meet with a few hundred kids Saturday afternoon.

Regarding your questions/points and others made thusfar:

Mcmc was your typical D1 lynch. Unlikely to hit scum, but Robz' points against him were better than anything else made D1. I'm not unhappy with my vote there.

Most people misinterpreted my point about being concerned of being Vigged as being against Robz. It was against Theorel. I was agreeing with Robz.

Robz is incorrect today in his statement that scum!Theorel knows mcmc will flip town and is thus unconcerned about partner claims - Mcmc could've flipped SK. It's a small point, but one that gives Robz scum points. I don't think either town or scum Robz forgets SK - but I think scum Robz is more likely to feign ignorance about it so as to not draw suspicion ("Mafia are more aware about SK than town...").

Both kills off wagon are interesting. I haven't put much thought into it, and certainly I haven't looked at what it means against votes yesterday. I don't see Mafia killing Awaclus here though. There are far better options in terms of "strong town players" and "more likely PR's". SK might hoping to hit Mafia though, but honestly he feels like the Vig kill. At worst, a town player that won't help town win is gone, and at best you hit scum. Datswan, then, feels like a scum kill. Whether SK or Mafia I have no clue - I would want to reread him to see if there's something there.

I wouldn't feel comfortable giving reads right now. I haven't had the time to process most of my thoughts.
Logged
Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #327 on: March 21, 2018, 11:26:59 pm »

Thanks. Understand about time and business.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #328 on: March 22, 2018, 09:00:09 am »

Sorry! I got slightly behind :-( Faust and his partner have now set off for the second part of their trip, and I'm back in the office nursing a cold almost as bad as the one faust left with :-(

I'm busy tomorrow and today from straight after work till late, so I should use my lunch break to catch up, except that if I don't go out to the shops and buy more soya milk, I won't be able to mainline enough tea this afternoon to feel human, so I'm going to head out and do that part first...
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Town games: M84(L), M85(W), M86(L), M87(W), M88(L), M90(L), M92(W), M94(L), M97(L), M99(W), M100(L), M104(W), M107(W), M110(L), M112(L), RMM37(L), RMM40(D), RMM41(L), RMM43(L), RMM47(W), ZM23(W).
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #329 on: March 22, 2018, 10:26:52 am »

Vote: PPS
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #330 on: March 22, 2018, 11:01:57 am »

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #331 on: March 22, 2018, 11:26:16 am »

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Witherweaver

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #332 on: March 22, 2018, 11:43:16 am »

Vote: Schadd
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pingpongsam

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #333 on: March 22, 2018, 11:57:02 am »

Robz doesn't seem very scummy at all. The only scummy thing about Robz is that he's actually playing the game early on. Which, for Robz, is super scummy.

Schadd is a big ole null. I can't read that guy, like at all. I was actually thinking there is no way schadd and WW are scum partners when mcmc did the thing where he said something about them being tvt. So, I get where mcmc was coming from on that except I was a bit more specific in my analysis. Either one could be scum but likely not both.

WW, on the surface doesn't look straight up scummy. If there's scum between him and schadd it's him, though. He's definitely avoiding positions that put him into much scrutiny but being sure to be suspicious of everyone else. Is this opportunism or just ignorant town? Null leaning scum here. Scum for his interactions with theorel and for his positioning on the mcmc wagon as well as his casting shade on Robz. At this point in the read I'm thinking WW and Theorel may be partners.

Space is looking like town!space. Can't say much much more than that. Does scum!space get on mcmc at that point? Maybe but not if partnered with WW/Therorel. Included themselves on their reads list, so there's that.

TWM reads pretty null so far. I know his town tells and they are later game so pass for now. Could be a theorel partner.

Vote: Theorel
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Witherweaver

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #334 on: March 22, 2018, 11:58:27 am »

What do you mean by interactions with Theorel?
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #335 on: March 22, 2018, 12:31:20 pm »

What do you mean by interactions with Theorel?

You only had one direct interaction and it was your usual dismissive. But a bit later you accused him of townslipping.

Today you start off agreeing with your partner as you go in to help frame poor Robz. Don't deny it!
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Witherweaver

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #336 on: March 22, 2018, 12:35:33 pm »

What do you mean by interactions with Theorel?

You only had one direct interaction and it was your usual dismissive. But a bit later you accused him of townslipping.

Today you start off agreeing with your partner as you go in to help frame poor Robz. Don't deny it!

I do aim to be dismissive.
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Witherweaver

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #337 on: March 22, 2018, 12:36:11 pm »

I do think Theorel is town, for what it's worth.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #338 on: March 22, 2018, 02:33:04 pm »

Robz is incorrect today in his statement that scum!Theorel knows mcmc will flip town and is thus unconcerned about partner claims - Mcmc could've flipped SK. It's a small point, but one that gives Robz scum points. I don't think either town or scum Robz forgets SK - but I think scum Robz is more likely to feign ignorance about it so as to not draw suspicion ("Mafia are more aware about SK than town...").

You're right, and also, thinking about this made me realize something you missed--SK!theorel would have been unsure about mcmc, regardless of mcmc's alignment. I don't think either town or scum Galz forgets SK!theorel, but I think SK!Galz is more likely to feign ignorance about it so as not to draw suspicion. ;)
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The_Wine_Merchant

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #339 on: March 22, 2018, 05:00:45 pm »

Vote: Schadd

Genius play. Just genius

[serious]
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #340 on: March 22, 2018, 05:06:02 pm »

I'll catch up tomorrow I'm too drunk to do anything useful now
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #341 on: March 22, 2018, 05:06:36 pm »

Other than ask what is the meaning of life? After all,  the outcome of life is death
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Witherweaver

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #342 on: March 22, 2018, 05:09:24 pm »

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schadd

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #343 on: March 22, 2018, 08:10:42 pm »

weird
my reason for not immediately voting mcmc?

i had no hurry to vote mcmc and as it happens there was a strong reason to not do that (which i mean i wasn't considering specifically but)

Schadd is a big ole null. I can't read that guy, like at all. I was actually thinking there is no way schadd and WW are scum partners when mcmc did the thing where he said something about them being tvt. So, I get where mcmc was coming from on that except I was a bit more specific in my analysis. Either one could be scum but likely not both.

WW, on the surface doesn't look straight up scummy. If there's scum between him and schadd it's him, though. He's definitely avoiding positions that put him into much scrutiny but being sure to be suspicious of everyone else.
you say either ww or i could be scum and then you say it is definitely ww that is scum

can you elaborate on that last sentence in the quote?

Vote: Schadd

Genius play. Just genius

[serious]
do you have any other reasoning for me being scum than what you've posted? 281 and 286
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #344 on: March 22, 2018, 08:18:37 pm »

schadd: He has that argument with ww, which now known-town mcmc thought included scum.
i mean you thought it didn't and if you are town you know yourself to be town
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #345 on: March 22, 2018, 08:22:30 pm »

Not sure how to elaborate. Reading his posts there is no firm stance, no resistance for people to push on but always a subtle insinuation that people are scummy. Good catch on my failed logic, I was basically just updating a text box as I read along.
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pingpongsam

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #346 on: March 22, 2018, 08:23:35 pm »

That definitely wasn’t the scum trap though, still waiting for someone to step in that...
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - N1
« Reply #347 on: March 22, 2018, 08:42:38 pm »

"At my age, if I make it up, it's still an old saying."

Vote Count 2.1

schadd (2): The_Wine_Merchant, Witherweaver
Galzria (1): theorel
theorel (1): pingpongsam

Not voting (5): Galzria, Joseph2303, Robz888, schadd, SpaceAnemone

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day ends Tuesday, March 27th at 5:00 p.m.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #348 on: March 22, 2018, 08:59:59 pm »

We should remember scum has daychat
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #349 on: March 22, 2018, 09:08:05 pm »

Reason is that he has stayed completely away from the mcmc wagon. It is obviously the biggest thing going on in the game, but he hasn't voted for him or defended him. He has just ignored it except to say "reasonable" to me and someone else that voted for him.

If mcmc is town then schadd stays off the mislynch wagon. If mcmc is scum, then I don't expect schadd to act this way, but I don't really think mcmc is scum.
i wanted to see if/how galz would leave ww

i asked mcmc what he thought was not tvt

vote: mcmc L-1 people don't tend to defend scum partners on this site, or even avoid voting them really

i townread swan
I could have sworn someone already asked schadd to explain the how gall would react part, but could not find it. schadd can you elaborate?

Ps i’ll Answer your questions when I get to an actual computer
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #350 on: March 22, 2018, 09:09:58 pm »

Found it buried in theorel post 318. schadd could you please answer?
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theorel

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #351 on: March 22, 2018, 11:01:24 pm »

schadd: He has that argument with ww, which now known-town mcmc thought included scum.
i mean you thought it didn't and if you are town you know yourself to be town
True, but now I know that mcmc actually found one of you scummy rather than just trying to get one of you lynched.  So, I'm dialing back my town-v-town read on that interaction some.  Then I scum-read you for the rest of the day, which included that odd "wanted to see what galz did" post.
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theorel

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #352 on: March 22, 2018, 11:02:12 pm »

Reason is that he has stayed completely away from the mcmc wagon. It is obviously the biggest thing going on in the game, but he hasn't voted for him or defended him. He has just ignored it except to say "reasonable" to me and someone else that voted for him.

If mcmc is town then schadd stays off the mislynch wagon. If mcmc is scum, then I don't expect schadd to act this way, but I don't really think mcmc is scum.
i wanted to see if/how galz would leave ww

i asked mcmc what he thought was not tvt

vote: mcmc L-1 people don't tend to defend scum partners on this site, or even avoid voting them really

i townread swan
To clarify, this is the post I'm talking about.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #353 on: March 23, 2018, 11:30:46 am »

I'm having thoughts about flips. Like, we need to flip scum, but also we need to make sure our flips are as informative as possible, because for most of us, the only wagon info we're going to be able to fill in is for people who flip as the result of a lynch.

That means flipping a townie who's been around on a lot of wagons and interacted with a bunch of people might still be useful for PoE, if we can't hit scum directly, whereas flipping someone who's been uncharacteristically absent is not so useful. So I really don't like the current schadd wagon, because I don't think he's actual scum.
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pingpongsam

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #354 on: March 23, 2018, 01:04:58 pm »

I'm having thoughts about flips. Like, we need to flip scum, but also we need to make sure our flips are as informative as possible, because for most of us, the only wagon info we're going to be able to fill in is for people who flip as the result of a lynch.

That means flipping a townie who's been around on a lot of wagons and interacted with a bunch of people might still be useful for PoE, if we can't hit scum directly, whereas flipping someone who's been uncharacteristically absent is not so useful. So I really don't like the current schadd wagon, because I don't think he's actual scum.

Sounds to me like you are volunteering.
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The_Wine_Merchant

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #355 on: March 23, 2018, 03:57:04 pm »

I'm having thoughts about flips. Like, we need to flip scum, but also we need to make sure our flips are as informative as possible, because for most of us, the only wagon info we're going to be able to fill in is for people who flip as the result of a lynch.

That means flipping a townie who's been around on a lot of wagons and interacted with a bunch of people might still be useful for PoE, if we can't hit scum directly, whereas flipping someone who's been uncharacteristically absent is not so useful. So I really don't like the current schadd wagon, because I don't think he's actual scum.
You say that like the rest of us are only voting for schadd because he has been absent. Which just isn't true.
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The_Wine_Merchant

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #356 on: March 23, 2018, 04:09:45 pm »

weird
my reason for not immediately voting mcmc?

i had no hurry to vote mcmc and as it happens there was a strong reason to not do that (which i mean i wasn't considering specifically but)

What was weird was that you voted, again without reasoning, immediately after I brought up, what I thought was a pretty good point that no other wagons had been seen that whole day and that this meant mcmc was less likely to be scum.

In addition I felt that your example of one interaction with mcmc was weak and forced, about the tvt thing. But you still hadn't ever commented or given an opinion on a read on mcmc either way until I called you out and you voted for him.

your vote for him below for context

Reason is that he has stayed completely away from the mcmc wagon. It is obviously the biggest thing going on in the game, but he hasn't voted for him or defended him. He has just ignored it except to say "reasonable" to me and someone else that voted for him.

If mcmc is town then schadd stays off the mislynch wagon. If mcmc is scum, then I don't expect schadd to act this way, but I don't really think mcmc is scum.
i wanted to see if/how galz would leave ww

i asked mcmc what he thought was not tvt

vote: mcmc L-1 people don't tend to defend scum partners on this site, or even avoid voting them really

i townread swan

In addition you still have not said what the thing about Galz was all about. Still weird. And the thing you say after your vote makes no sense either. I never said that I thought you and mcmc were partners. I had stopped thinking he was scum at this point, to no avail to you and pps who thought it was cool to still hammer away. So I don't know what your point is in including that statement.


Vote: Schadd

Genius play. Just genius

[serious]
do you have any other reasoning for me being scum than what you've posted? 281 and 286

I think the reasons there are pretty much sufficient. In addition, I do not think you have played a town game. There has not been posts that felt like typical schadd. This isn't enough reason to vote for you, but nor is it enough reason to not vote for you given the above. You haven't been around as much, especially later and later after being around earlier. Again, not a reason to vote alone, but it isn't making my impression of you be townie. Something that I typically get from you. Maybe that is just because it is still early in the whole game?

TL;DR. You have done some scummy stuff and you haven't left your normal townie impression
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SpaceAnemone

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #357 on: March 23, 2018, 06:50:02 pm »

I'm having thoughts about flips. Like, we need to flip scum, but also we need to make sure our flips are as informative as possible, because for most of us, the only wagon info we're going to be able to fill in is for people who flip as the result of a lynch.

That means flipping a townie who's been around on a lot of wagons and interacted with a bunch of people might still be useful for PoE, if we can't hit scum directly, whereas flipping someone who's been uncharacteristically absent is not so useful. So I really don't like the current schadd wagon, because I don't think he's actual scum.

Sounds to me like you are volunteering.

Well, I'm not doing such a good job of it if I am, because I haven't voted yet today, and I have a stack of re-reading to do.

You're not showing a great deal of variability in your voting pattern, either.. you were on Theorel for most of yesterday, and you're back there again today already.
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SpaceAnemone

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #358 on: March 23, 2018, 07:01:57 pm »

Here's a snapshot of the game at #178:

  Joseph2302 (2): mcmcsalot, DatSwan
  Witherweaver (2): schadd, Galzria
  mcmcsalot (4): The_Wine_Merchant, Witherweaver, theorel, SpaceAnemone
  theorel (1): pingpongsam
  schadd (1): Joseph2302
  Not Voting (2): Robz888, Awaclus

If we assume Awaclus was a vig kill, and Swan a scum NK very likely to have landed on town, then we have two towns on Joseph. I'd expect scums not to bus as much in this setup than a standard one, just because there's so much less benefit when we don't get clear colours for wagon-reading. So the fact that Joseph's wagon is quite green-looking makes me think he's more likely to be scum, but with pretty low certainty.

If one of those shots was from a vig, then town might actually know the alignment of someone, which might help someone out there with wagon analysis if I point out wagonny things. I don't think it's anti-town for me to show my thinking in this game in particular, because it helps town if scum can PoE each other and take each other out.

Anyway, this and another few other D1 voting states make me think that WW is another interesting person I'd like to hear a lot more from. Awaclus joined his wagon later, too.
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SpaceAnemone

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #359 on: March 23, 2018, 07:33:53 pm »

WW re-read & notes

I don't think I read as much into the "You have chosen... Poorly." quote at #57 as other people did. Seems like casual small-talk that town and scum might make with roughly equal likelihood.

Says he doesn't see mcmc (as scummy) at #104.

Takes exception to schadd's post-facto reasoning at #105. More against him at #115 and #116. He really doesn't seem to like the idea of someone giving current reasoning for not changing an existing vote. At #121 he has: It is like a "it was a kind of weak vote then but now it's stronger" thing that I have found scum does. -- I don't like it as reasoning, because it's definitely something I do as town. I think it's probably even harder to emulate as scum because it involves an evolving underlying thought process, which is something scums don't normally have (though okay, in this particular game there will be other-faction-hunting for them to do).

The slew of low-content responses around #166-#169 seems kind of designed to stay active..

At #172, WW points out that Theorel had "pseudotownslipped, or fake-pseudotownslipped" by talking as if we only have two factions. That seems useful and pro-town.

His frustration over other people answering for mcmc seems pretty genuine at #232 -- his scum-hunting probes are getting trampled on by the wrong people.

Close reading of Robz's analysis makes him question whether Robz thinks he or schadd might be scum after all.

I feel like he took Joseph's pretty shallow level of analysis a bit too seriously at the start of D2, especially given that he ends up having to backtrack at #311 after Robz points out that we don't have flips on the people killed at night.. that all seems a little weird.

Annoyingly, I partially agree with PPS's read on WW at #333, which is "null leaning scum", though I think I'm more strongly in the "null" camp than PPS. Some of WW's stuff seems solidly towny and scum-hunty, but some of it doesn't. He's reasonably active, though, so finding afew "off" posts is pretty par for the course.
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Galzria

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #360 on: March 23, 2018, 09:55:41 pm »

Here's a snapshot of the game at #178:

  Joseph2302 (2): mcmcsalot, DatSwan
  Witherweaver (2): schadd, Galzria
  mcmcsalot (4): The_Wine_Merchant, Witherweaver, theorel, SpaceAnemone
  theorel (1): pingpongsam
  schadd (1): Joseph2302
  Not Voting (2): Robz888, Awaclus

If we assume Awaclus was a vig kill, and Swan a scum NK very likely to have landed on town, then we have two towns on Joseph. I'd expect scums not to bus as much in this setup than a standard one, just because there's so much less benefit when we don't get clear colours for wagon-reading. So the fact that Joseph's wagon is quite green-looking makes me think he's more likely to be scum, but with pretty low certainty.

If one of those shots was from a vig, then town might actually know the alignment of someone, which might help someone out there with wagon analysis if I point out wagonny things. I don't think it's anti-town for me to show my thinking in this game in particular, because it helps town if scum can PoE each other and take each other out.

Anyway, this and another few other D1 voting states make me think that WW is another interesting person I'd like to hear a lot more from. Awaclus joined his wagon later, too.

The idea of Awaclus being the vig kill is something I posited, sure.

Why does that make him more likely to be town?
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

theorel

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #361 on: March 23, 2018, 11:26:29 pm »

Here's a snapshot of the game at #178:

  Joseph2302 (2): mcmcsalot, DatSwan
  Witherweaver (2): schadd, Galzria
  mcmcsalot (4): The_Wine_Merchant, Witherweaver, theorel, SpaceAnemone
  theorel (1): pingpongsam
  schadd (1): Joseph2302
  Not Voting (2): Robz888, Awaclus

If we assume Awaclus was a vig kill, and Swan a scum NK very likely to have landed on town, then we have two towns on Joseph. I'd expect scums not to bus as much in this setup than a standard one, just because there's so much less benefit when we don't get clear colours for wagon-reading. So the fact that Joseph's wagon is quite green-looking makes me think he's more likely to be scum, but with pretty low certainty.

If one of those shots was from a vig, then town might actually know the alignment of someone, which might help someone out there with wagon analysis if I point out wagonny things. I don't think it's anti-town for me to show my thinking in this game in particular, because it helps town if scum can PoE each other and take each other out.

Anyway, this and another few other D1 voting states make me think that WW is another interesting person I'd like to hear a lot more from. Awaclus joined his wagon later, too.
Galz points out that Awaclus is not more likely to be town...but I think the reason that even comes up is because you pivoted from Joseph's wagon to ww's with no real explanation.  Joseph had definitely 1, likely 2 town players voting for him.  Witherweaver had votes on him by 3 players that I think have read pretty scummy this game, with no particular reason to believe any of them are (or were) town.

So, why did you decide to re-read Witherweaver, and why did you ignore Joseph after that first line?
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theorel

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #362 on: March 23, 2018, 11:32:48 pm »

Actually, after saying that Awaclus is no more unlikely to be scum, I thought if he might be SK, and remembered (and re-checked) that the SK was not just bulletproof, but 1-shot NK-immune (meaning he couldn't die at all the first time he's targeted).  So, Awaclus and Datswan were guaranteed not the SK.  And, of course, one potential reason for the missing death last night is if the SK was targeted.
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Galzria

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #363 on: March 23, 2018, 11:34:14 pm »

Actually, I realize that what I asked isn't exactly what Space said. My fault for trying to keep up and participate while my mind is on work.

Space's thoughts and points weren't fluid above, and I realize that while they started with the theory that Awaclus was the vig kill, Awaclus wasn't actually on the Joseph wagon - and thus Space didn't suggest anything about his alignment.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #364 on: March 24, 2018, 01:53:36 am »

Word
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Losses: M100, M103, M104, M109, M112

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #365 on: March 24, 2018, 01:54:11 am »

Wordy word word. I am not scum
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #366 on: March 24, 2018, 01:54:43 am »

I just PPEd myself
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #367 on: March 24, 2018, 01:55:07 am »

Hahahahahahahahahaha
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Losses: M100, M103, M104, M109, M112

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #368 on: March 24, 2018, 01:58:13 am »

Is Joseph still drunk?
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Losses: M100, M103, M104, M109, M112

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #369 on: March 24, 2018, 06:56:46 am »

Is Joseph still drunk?
Always, I'm an alcoholic
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #370 on: March 24, 2018, 09:12:47 am »

That mcmc lynch had far too much early momentum, which I'm guilty of supporting, so we didn't exactly make scum work hard for that mislynch.
Agreed. People just voted mcmc and didn't move, which makes it easy for scum to get through the mislynch.
Which is why I think the scum were on that wagon
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Joseph2302

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #371 on: March 24, 2018, 09:17:49 am »

Here's a snapshot of the game at #178:

  Joseph2302 (2): mcmcsalot, DatSwan
  Witherweaver (2): schadd, Galzria
  mcmcsalot (4): The_Wine_Merchant, Witherweaver, theorel, SpaceAnemone
  theorel (1): pingpongsam
  schadd (1): Joseph2302
  Not Voting (2): Robz888, Awaclus

If we assume Awaclus was a vig kill, and Swan a scum NK very likely to have landed on town, then we have two towns on Joseph. I'd expect scums not to bus as much in this setup than a standard one, just because there's so much less benefit when we don't get clear colours for wagon-reading. So the fact that Joseph's wagon is quite green-looking makes me think he's more likely to be scum, but with pretty low certainty.

If one of those shots was from a vig, then town might actually know the alignment of someone, which might help someone out there with wagon analysis if I point out wagonny things. I don't think it's anti-town for me to show my thinking in this game in particular, because it helps town if scum can PoE each other and take each other out.

Anyway, this and another few other D1 voting states make me think that WW is another interesting person I'd like to hear a lot more from. Awaclus joined his wagon later, too.
It is true that 2 towns were on me, but I think there was at least 1 scum on mcmc at that time.
So I think there's 1-2 scum in {The_Wine_Merchant, Witherweaver, theorel, SpaceAnemone}.

On a side note, no-one seems to think Space is scum this game, which is interesting & unusual.

Vote: theorel is the option I want to take right now
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Witherweaver

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #372 on: March 24, 2018, 12:01:54 pm »

I would say that, condional on nothing that has happened in this specific game, there is a decent chance that there was no Vig shot.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #373 on: March 24, 2018, 12:02:22 pm »

Is Joseph still drunk?
Always, I'm an alcoholic

You two should be good friends then.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #374 on: March 24, 2018, 12:06:06 pm »

Actually, after saying that Awaclus is no more unlikely to be scum, I thought if he might be SK, and remembered (and re-checked) that the SK was not just bulletproof, but 1-shot NK-immune (meaning he couldn't die at all the first time he's targeted).  So, Awaclus and Datswan were guaranteed not the SK.  And, of course, one potential reason for the missing death last night is if the SK was targeted.

I think my lady doth protest too much.

This is useful, though.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #375 on: March 24, 2018, 07:33:00 pm »

Reason is that he has stayed completely away from the mcmc wagon. It is obviously the biggest thing going on in the game, but he hasn't voted for him or defended him. He has just ignored it except to say "reasonable" to me and someone else that voted for him.

If mcmc is town then schadd stays off the mislynch wagon. If mcmc is scum, then I don't expect schadd to act this way, but I don't really think mcmc is scum.
i wanted to see if/how galz would leave ww

i asked mcmc what he thought was not tvt

vote: mcmc L-1 people don't tend to defend scum partners on this site, or even avoid voting them really

i townread swan
I could have sworn someone already asked schadd to explain the how gall would react part, but could not find it. schadd can you elaborate?
i think i looked at vote count 1.3 and thought "he he ha ha it is only i and galzria voting ww now that is interesting" and that mcmc wagon was probably gonna be a thing since i and people tend to sightread him quickly and he seemed reasonably scum to me and i assumed other people would see that

there wasn't anything in particular i was expecting him to do, he had seemed committed to ww scum and i thought the way he would switch to mcmc if he did would be interesting somehow. i guess it wasn't really, maybe pending ww's flip

schadd: He has that argument with ww, which now known-town mcmc thought included scum.
i mean you thought it didn't and if you are town you know yourself to be town
True, but now I know that mcmc actually found one of you scummy rather than just trying to get one of you lynched.  So, I'm dialing back my town-v-town read on that interaction some.  Then I scum-read you for the rest of the day, which included that odd "wanted to see what galz did" post.
what i'm interested in is that you haven't seemed to make a value judgement of mcmc's reads

What was weird was that you voted, again without reasoning, immediately after I brought up, what I thought was a pretty good point that no other wagons had been seen that whole day and that this meant mcmc was less likely to be scum.

In addition I felt that your example of one interaction with mcmc was weak and forced, about the tvt thing. But you still hadn't ever commented or given an opinion on a read on mcmc either way until I called you out and you voted for him.

your vote for him below for context
good golly it is within my means to give reasoning for a vote as scum

what i meant by "people don't defend scum partners" is that if a wagon is cropping up on scum, scum don't fight it very often here in my memory, i.e., scum can get wagoned

it happens more often on day 2s than day 1s but like i said mcmc can be read p easily

I think the reasons there are pretty much sufficient. In addition, I do not think you have played a town game. There has not been posts that felt like typical schadd. This isn't enough reason to vote for you, but nor is it enough reason to not vote for you given the above. You haven't been around as much, especially later and later after being around earlier. Again, not a reason to vote alone, but it isn't making my impression of you be townie. Something that I typically get from you. Maybe that is just because it is still early in the whole game?

TL;DR. You have done some scummy stuff and you haven't left your normal townie impression
have u townread me like ever
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I thought you thought it was a slip because I said 'Jake's partners' instead of 'Roadrunner7671.'

schadd

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #376 on: March 24, 2018, 07:34:08 pm »

i incidentally think pps is town

i might put my early-2017 mask on and look at an old game or 2 to support this

space is also seeming a bit town
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schadd

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #377 on: March 24, 2018, 07:48:59 pm »

What was weird was that you voted, again without reasoning, immediately after I brought up, what I thought was a pretty good point that no other wagons had been seen that whole day and that this meant mcmc was less likely to be scum.

In addition I felt that your example of one interaction with mcmc was weak and forced, about the tvt thing. But you still hadn't ever commented or given an opinion on a read on mcmc either way until I called you out and you voted for him.

your vote for him below for context
...
i did also mean "mcmc seems scummy from that post" when i said the vote was reasonable

i suppose you probably want my thinking with him articulated if town, 122 struck me as something people don't think often, usually you will just have someone in particular that you think is scum; 143 seemed like he thought "i am mcmc and town mcmc is confident!" whereas he could have just explained what he was thinking

also stuff like 163 seemed like he was just trying to do stuff, made me think of m98
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SpaceAnemone

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #378 on: March 24, 2018, 08:18:12 pm »

I've made some PPS re-read notes, but really I think my whole evaluation of how scummy he feels is going to hinge on my re-read of theorel, and whether or not PPS's tunnel on theorel can seem in any way sensible.

The arguments in favour of theorel being scum, paraphrased from PPS, seem to be that theorel's reaction to Joseph's SK claim was scummy, PPS hasn't played before with theorel, and theorel's reads list started with an introductory sentence to why a reads list was useful there. I feel like I may have missed a nebulous "he sounds scummy" somewhere, and then a bit more confirmation bias, too...

Code: [Select]
Only 16 game posts, which is lower than I'd have thought.

His very first game post at #52 is a failed attempt to vote theorel, because he had "the scummiest" reaction to Joseph's early joke SK claim, and for a ridiculous reason that theorel is more likely to be scum because PPS hasn't played with him before.

Makes a presumably-jokey SK claim at #83.

Successfully votes theorel at #103. Urges others to vote at #139.

Says at #150 that he can "do a thing" on theorel, but that it's all really based on theorel's initial posts, and how he never did anything to change PPS's read. Emphasizes at #162 that he found one thing scummy and stuck to that because "D1 sucks" and that's how he rolls.

Responds at #173 to WW's post about theorel pseudo-townslipping, but doesn't seem to update his read at all -- only comments on how we already have two claimed SKs. Then a weird "all serious" post at #179, then a huge gap till he takes the hammer at #290. It looked really scummy, except that for PPS it's probably not so alignment-indicative, because I think hammers are something he likes.

His first D2 post is at #319, immediately following a theorel reads post, nad saying that theorel still looks like scum. His main argument here seems to be that theorel's post opened with "Okay, I think I need a reads list to keep track of everybody...", and PPS read that as "I need to make sure I stay congruent while influencing town and trying to appear towny". I opened my main reads list post with "Some things for people to disagree with me on, given that this is going to have to be a readsy game" -- so how is mine (which shows consciousness of how people are likely to take my observations etc, which I think is something I get scumread for)  so much less scummy than theorel's that he's getting scumread for that, and I'm widely townread?

PPS's own reads list is at #333. He comments on Robz, schadd, WW, me, TWM and theorel, but misses out Joseph and Galz entirely. He only talks about theorel in the context of being maybe-partners with WW or me, but then theorel is the one who gets the vote at the end.

He responds at #335 to WW's question about PPS's note on WW's interaction with theorel. It's notable that PPS didn't say "lack of interaction" in his reads, but that seems to be how he's explaining it. His response is 30 mins after the question, even though the question was posted within 90 seconds of PPS's reads.. I've got no record of whether PPS was online or reading things in that time, but it's definitely long enough to pick up the question and go and re-read enough to make something up if the first "observation" about WW and theorel's interactions wasn't actually a real observation at all..

At #345 he responds to schadd's catch of some logic fail in PPS's reads, and at least is willing to admit he was being inconsistent.

At #346 he implies he's set up a "scum trap".

At #354 the game has slowed down again, and he seems to be suggesting that I'd be a good town to flip over. Thankfully that one wasn't followed by a vote.
Logged
Congratulations! Your SpaceAnemone evolved into UniverseAnemone!
Town games: M84(L), M85(W), M86(L), M87(W), M88(L), M90(L), M92(W), M94(L), M97(L), M99(W), M100(L), M104(W), M107(W), M110(L), M112(L), RMM37(L), RMM40(D), RMM41(L), RMM43(L), RMM47(W), ZM23(W).
Scum games: M89(D), M108(L), NM8(W&MVP), NM10(L)   Mod: NM9, RMM38, RMM42.   Pronouns: they/them

The_Wine_Merchant

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #379 on: March 24, 2018, 10:27:00 pm »

Reason is that he has stayed completely away from the mcmc wagon. It is obviously the biggest thing going on in the game, but he hasn't voted for him or defended him. He has just ignored it except to say "reasonable" to me and someone else that voted for him.

If mcmc is town then schadd stays off the mislynch wagon. If mcmc is scum, then I don't expect schadd to act this way, but I don't really think mcmc is scum.
i wanted to see if/how galz would leave ww

i asked mcmc what he thought was not tvt

vote: mcmc L-1 people don't tend to defend scum partners on this site, or even avoid voting them really

i townread swan
I could have sworn someone already asked schadd to explain the how gall would react part, but could not find it. schadd can you elaborate?
i think i looked at vote count 1.3 and thought "he he ha ha it is only i and galzria voting ww now that is interesting" and that mcmc wagon was probably gonna be a thing since i and people tend to sightread him quickly and he seemed reasonably scum to me and i assumed other people would see that

there wasn't anything in particular i was expecting him to do, he had seemed committed to ww scum and i thought the way he would switch to mcmc if he did would be interesting somehow. i guess it wasn't really, maybe pending ww's flip
So you got nothing out of what you were, supposedly, waiting for? Cool.
Logged
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Losses: M100, M103, M104, M109, M112

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The_Wine_Merchant

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #380 on: March 24, 2018, 10:29:11 pm »

I think the reasons there are pretty much sufficient. In addition, I do not think you have played a town game. There has not been posts that felt like typical schadd. This isn't enough reason to vote for you, but nor is it enough reason to not vote for you given the above. You haven't been around as much, especially later and later after being around earlier. Again, not a reason to vote alone, but it isn't making my impression of you be townie. Something that I typically get from you. Maybe that is just because it is still early in the whole game?

TL;DR. You have done some scummy stuff and you haven't left your normal townie impression
have u townread me like ever
Sure.

And you sure did ignore on a lot of stuff to only fixate on the least important part. I mean, this is like the least substantial portion of anything I am finding you scummy for.
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Losses: M100, M103, M104, M109, M112

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The_Wine_Merchant

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #381 on: March 24, 2018, 10:31:45 pm »

What I want to know is why you (schadd) thought it was a good idea to vote for mcmc after seeing (that I pointed out) that he had been the only wagon with more than 2 votes all game long? Didn't that seem weird to you? If mcmc had been scum, all he and partner had to do was move to a wagon with another vote and now you have a competing wagon instead of letting him become the default lynch. mcmc as scum wouldn't play like that. But I point that out and instead of introspection we have two "derp" votes after each other to make sure the vote goes through. I have to think at least one of those was from scum. So you or pps. Pick one.
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Losses: M100, M103, M104, M109, M112

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EFHW

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #382 on: March 24, 2018, 10:56:23 pm »

"The Wheel weaves as the Wheel wills, and we are only the thread of the Pattern."

Vote Count 2.2

schadd (2): The_Wine_Merchant, Witherweaver
Galzria (1): theorel
theorel (2): pingpongsam, Joseph2302

Not voting (4): Galzria, Robz888, schadd, SpaceAnemone

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day ends Tuesday, March 27th at 5:00 p.m.
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The_Wine_Merchant

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #383 on: March 24, 2018, 11:16:41 pm »

Prod: Robz
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The_Wine_Merchant

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #384 on: March 24, 2018, 11:17:25 pm »

I'm so sick of getting called out for not tying hard enough, I'm gonna try so hard you'll be CONVINCED I'm scum!
Relevant
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Robz888

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #385 on: March 25, 2018, 03:12:42 pm »

I'm so sick of getting called out for not tying hard enough, I'm gonna try so hard you'll be CONVINCED I'm scum!
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I'm here, I'm here!
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Robz888

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #386 on: March 25, 2018, 03:16:46 pm »

I've read and re-read the posts since last I contributed, and I don't get like anything out of them. The game is eerily quiet, possibly because scum is being cautious, more likely because lack of flip information deprives us of things to talk about.

I am town reading TWM, I guess. He seems to be participating with a level of townie confidence similar to his postings from M-113, where he was town.

Don't have a lot of other thoughts. Going back and forth in my head on pretty much everybody else.
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pingpongsam

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #387 on: March 25, 2018, 04:31:00 pm »

Agree TWM is being townTWM. I think Space is looking townish. No one has even noticed the scum trap, so sad.
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SpaceAnemone

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #388 on: March 25, 2018, 07:45:50 pm »

Theorel re-read and notes.

Only 26 game posts to date, which is lower than I'd expected. (In contrast, this will be my 32nd post, and I'm notoriously slow at saying stuff in the early game).

#40 Says the mass roleclaim is "dumb", then softens the post by saying he thinks Joseph is prob!town for pushing out of RVS.

#84 Clarifies his reasons for having a town-read on Joseph, in response to mcmc's comment about "this is why scum keeps doing this". I read mcmc as meaning that the push for a massclaim is scummy, but his use of "this", and the content of the post he actually quoted make it ambiguous.

#89 Seems to be taking mcmc's opinions on the possibly-scumminess of Joseph's actions on board. Doesn't explicitly say he's townreading Joseph any less, though.

#102 Votes WW, pushing for wagons to move. Immediately before he voted, Joseph, WW, PPS, mcmc, and I each had one vote apiece.

#126 Voted mcmc for his comment on how schadd vs WW didn't seem TvT. Theorel said he felt exactly the opposite while reading it, and I know I did too, so this seems pretty townie of theorel.

#134 and #164 are both posts I liked because theorel is explaining why it's reasonable for townies to say stuff that others accidentally scumread. I acknowledge that posts like that may be easier to make if the player behind them knows for sure who town is, but this is a multifaction game, so that's never going to be totally true here. These observations feel like genuine town to me.

#226 addresses the Galz-TWM argument, and the fact that it's uncomfortable. Also tries to explain waht went on in the Smash Bros game, which is useful and helpful to town.

#269-#270 gets mildly defensive about Robz saying that theorel's vote seems like a bus (and now in retrospect we know that it can't have been).

#298 Comes into D2 fully engaged and talking about possible explanations for the deaths and stuff. Carrys that on through #299 and #300.

#318 Reads list that PPS later scumread him for because of the opening. He has decent reasons for his reads, and I agree with his opinions of most players. He ends up voting Galz, who's pretty absent overall. He prods Galz at #322.

#361 Oh, there's a question for me that I somehow overlooked earlier! I'll get back to that once I'm done with my current likes of thought.

Overall, I'm leaning townie on theorel. I can sort of see how his logical non-confrontational tone gets scumread by PPS, inasmuch as it sounds like my kind of tone, and I get scumread for the most ridiculously little reasons pretty often too. Anyway, I'm not keen on voting theorel for today at least.
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schadd

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #389 on: March 25, 2018, 08:02:13 pm »

i think i looked at vote count 1.3 and thought "he he ha ha it is only i and galzria voting ww now that is interesting" and that mcmc wagon was probably gonna be a thing since i and people tend to sightread him quickly and he seemed reasonably scum to me and i assumed other people would see that

there wasn't anything in particular i was expecting him to do, he had seemed committed to ww scum and i thought the way he would switch to mcmc if he did would be interesting somehow. i guess it wasn't really, maybe pending ww's flip
So you got nothing out of what you were, supposedly, waiting for? Cool.
gosh i guess not!

as i said it is within my means as scum to make something up. it is also within my means to do it as town, which i do on occasion. lmfeo.

you seem to be either under the impression or pushing the narrative that it was a grand and profound decision i spent a lot of thought on to not vote mcmc immediately. it is just a thing that i thought and did

I think the reasons there are pretty much sufficient. In addition, I do not think you have played a town game. There has not been posts that felt like typical schadd. This isn't enough reason to vote for you, but nor is it enough reason to not vote for you given the above. You haven't been around as much, especially later and later after being around earlier. Again, not a reason to vote alone, but it isn't making my impression of you be townie. Something that I typically get from you. Maybe that is just because it is still early in the whole game?

TL;DR. You have done some scummy stuff and you haven't left your normal townie impression
have u townread me like ever
Sure.

And you sure did ignore on a lot of stuff to only fixate on the least important part. I mean, this is like the least substantial portion of anything I am finding you scummy for.
what did i ignore

if you mean that last paragraph i don't know what i am supposed to responding to. you are saying a bunch of different ways that u think i am different from normal and scum. idk i'm me bitc

What I want to know is why you (schadd) thought it was a good idea to vote for mcmc after seeing (that I pointed out) that he had been the only wagon with more than 2 votes all game long? Didn't that seem weird to you? If mcmc had been scum, all he and partner had to do was move to a wagon with another vote and now you have a competing wagon instead of letting him become the default lynch. mcmc as scum wouldn't play like that. But I point that out and instead of introspection we have two "derp" votes after each other to make sure the vote goes through. I have to think at least one of those was from scum. So you or pps. Pick one.
that is what i was getting at with the people don't tend to defend partners thing. a lot of people here overvalue vca and are conscious of counterwagons. in response, i have observed very often that scum here will bus often and make little attempt to dislodge a scum wagon if one is building.

you were in gilmore girls. silverspawn could have voted datswan and prevented you from getting lynched, but he didn't. and for that reason people pushed him very little for the rest of the game.

it did not seem weird to me that there were a lot of people voting him. i have also mentioned the fact that i think people can form a read on mcmc quickly. i also did that thing, incidentally.
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SpaceAnemone

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #390 on: March 25, 2018, 08:08:55 pm »

Here's a snapshot of the game at #178:

  Joseph2302 (2): mcmcsalot, DatSwan
  Witherweaver (2): schadd, Galzria
  mcmcsalot (4): The_Wine_Merchant, Witherweaver, theorel, SpaceAnemone
  theorel (1): pingpongsam
  schadd (1): Joseph2302
  Not Voting (2): Robz888, Awaclus

If we assume Awaclus was a vig kill, and Swan a scum NK very likely to have landed on town, then we have two towns on Joseph. I'd expect scums not to bus as much in this setup than a standard one, just because there's so much less benefit when we don't get clear colours for wagon-reading. So the fact that Joseph's wagon is quite green-looking makes me think he's more likely to be scum, but with pretty low certainty.

If one of those shots was from a vig, then town might actually know the alignment of someone, which might help someone out there with wagon analysis if I point out wagonny things. I don't think it's anti-town for me to show my thinking in this game in particular, because it helps town if scum can PoE each other and take each other out.

Anyway, this and another few other D1 voting states make me think that WW is another interesting person I'd like to hear a lot more from. Awaclus joined his wagon later, too.
Galz points out that Awaclus is not more likely to be town...but I think the reason that even comes up is because you pivoted from Joseph's wagon to ww's with no real explanation.  Joseph had definitely 1, likely 2 town players voting for him.  Witherweaver had votes on him by 3 players that I think have read pretty scummy this game, with no particular reason to believe any of them are (or were) town.

So, why did you decide to re-read Witherweaver, and why did you ignore Joseph after that first line?

Sorry I missed your direct question earlier. I must've overlooked it in the ceaseless torrent of new posts in this game or something :-P

Yes, it's quite possible that i failed to show my full working in terms of where my thought process was going. I wanted to look for possible scums by seeing whether I thought there were scums on the wagons of the two other people who had multiple votes. In Joseph's case, I think he's got two towns on his tail, so I might have expected a scum to try joining at some point if Joseph is town, therefore I'm not so sure he is. I wasn't feeling confident enough to pay a vote down, and I figured some targeted re-reads may throw up something that I felt more sure about. I certainly haven't stopped considering him potential scum, but I have to weigh that against how easy a mislynch he is for scums to push.

I townread you and schadd to varying degrees, but WW is more of a null, and was so even before my re-read, so he seems to be the other wagon that might be built on scum. It wouldn't surprise me if one or other of WW and Galz is scum, though I wouldn't expect them to be the same flavour of scum because I don't think scum has any real need to bus here. Anyway, I thought hearing more from WW that might be alignment-indicative would help me colour in my wagons a bit better, and my suspicion of him pushed him up my re-read order. I think Galz ought to be next, now I've done you, though it will help if he says some useful alignment-indicative things first...

PPE 1
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theorel

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #391 on: March 25, 2018, 10:30:00 pm »

...

Sorry I missed your direct question earlier. I must've overlooked it in the ceaseless torrent of new posts in this game or something :-P

Yes, it's quite possible that i failed to show my full working in terms of where my thought process was going. I wanted to look for possible scums by seeing whether I thought there were scums on the wagons of the two other people who had multiple votes. In Joseph's case, I think he's got two towns on his tail, so I might have expected a scum to try joining at some point if Joseph is town, therefore I'm not so sure he is. I wasn't feeling confident enough to pay a vote down, and I figured some targeted re-reads may throw up something that I felt more sure about. I certainly haven't stopped considering him potential scum, but I have to weigh that against how easy a mislynch he is for scums to push.

I townread you and schadd to varying degrees, but WW is more of a null, and was so even before my re-read, so he seems to be the other wagon that might be built on scum. It wouldn't surprise me if one or other of WW and Galz is scum, though I wouldn't expect them to be the same flavour of scum because I don't think scum has any real need to bus here. Anyway, I thought hearing more from WW that might be alignment-indicative would help me colour in my wagons a bit better, and my suspicion of him pushed him up my re-read order. I think Galz ought to be next, now I've done you, though it will help if he says some useful alignment-indicative things first...

PPE 1
Makes sense, it wasn't the lack of a vote (though, really, this game is a little low on voting players right now), but rather the fact that the pivot turned into a ww re-read.  At the time, I thought he was the only player you were re-reading, which seemed odd.
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theorel

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #392 on: March 25, 2018, 10:49:55 pm »

...
schadd: He has that argument with ww, which now known-town mcmc thought included scum.
i mean you thought it didn't and if you are town you know yourself to be town
True, but now I know that mcmc actually found one of you scummy rather than just trying to get one of you lynched.  So, I'm dialing back my town-v-town read on that interaction some.  Then I scum-read you for the rest of the day, which included that odd "wanted to see what galz did" post.
what i'm interested in is that you haven't seemed to make a value judgement of mcmc's reads
...
I'm not sure I follow what you're "interested" in.  My original collection of thoughts is just the things that seemed salient from the previous day as I considered each player (and scanned their posts to remember what happened). One of those facts is that mcmc thought there was scum in your argument with witherweaver.  My reaction to that fact, given that mcmc is town, is to temper my original reaction, because I have no particular reason to believe that my read of the situation was in fact the correct one.  I'm not embracing mcmc's reaction, because I have no particular reason to believe that his read was in fact the correct one.

It feels like you accused me of taking mcmc's read and deciding you must be scum because of it, and so I explained the "value" judgments in my reasoning (i.e. recognizing mcmc's alignment reduced my town-read, looking at the rest of the day turned it into a scum-read), but then you accused me of not making a value judgment? I'm not sure what kind of "value" you're expecting...unless you just mean the original post?  I didn't offer much value there for anyone until the conclusion...I think you're just stuck on a style thing.
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The_Wine_Merchant

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #393 on: March 25, 2018, 11:12:53 pm »

that is what i was getting at with the people don't tend to defend partners thing. a lot of people here overvalue vca and are conscious of counterwagons. in response, i have observed very often that scum here will bus often and make little attempt to dislodge a scum wagon if one is building.
Not day 1. Bussing on day 1 is basically suicide. Especially with only two partners.

And I am not even talking about defending. I am just talking about a subtle move toward someone other than mcmc to make it a viable option. I actually anticipated people suspecting me of exactly that when I moved off mcmc which is why I didn't exactly spell it out yesterday.

But OK. I am not going to convince you of this. If you are town, then you are convinced you are town and did a townie thing. If you are scum I am not trying to convince you. But am interested if this idea is working for anyone else or if I am totally off base?
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The_Wine_Merchant

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #394 on: March 26, 2018, 07:58:43 am »

Space could be scum.

^Helpful post.
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The_Wine_Merchant

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #395 on: March 26, 2018, 07:59:37 am »

I don't really know why though. So that is hard for me to express. But thought if I put it out there and started typing it might help me figure it out.

But it didn't.
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Witherweaver

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #396 on: March 26, 2018, 09:22:40 am »

Space seems town to me, though that's usually the case earlier on in games.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #397 on: March 26, 2018, 09:57:45 am »

Can someone elucidate for me why a kill seems to be missing from last night? I thought we would expect a NK and a SK. Yeah, tthere's a vig but why would they blindly shoot N1?
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Robz888

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #398 on: March 26, 2018, 01:05:00 pm »

Can someone elucidate for me why a kill seems to be missing from last night? I thought we would expect a NK and a SK. Yeah, tthere's a vig but why would they blindly shoot N1?

I think we probably shouldn't speculate too wildly about this, since it would help scum pinpoint the vig, but yes, the vig deciding not to shoot is definitely not that weird to me.

Deadline is tomorrow, FWIW.
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theorel

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #399 on: March 26, 2018, 01:10:46 pm »

Vigilante shots are roughly equivalent to a lynch, just with less argument.  Vigilantes should always shoot, because it effectively doubles the number of town-directed kills which greatly increases the chance that town wins.

Limited-shot vigs, and parity situations can change this, but vigs should shoot in general. 

Consider an 11-player game, by day 3 with no vig town got 3 lynches, and scum got 3 kills.  There are 5 players left.  With a vig by day 2 there are 5 players left, town got 2 lynches, and 2 kills, scum got 2 kills...so 4 possibly scum-deaths versus 3 possible scum-deaths.
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Robz888

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #400 on: March 26, 2018, 01:15:35 pm »

Vote: theorel since he apparently can't help himself
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theorel

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #401 on: March 26, 2018, 01:16:40 pm »

Deadline is tomorrow, FWIW.

And we still have 5 (PPE: 6) total players even willing to put down a vote.  Well, I guess I'll move my vote to a more productive place, but I'd be happy to switch back to Galzria, if anyone else agrees that his behavior seems off this game.
vote: schadd
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EFHW

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #402 on: March 26, 2018, 03:22:01 pm »

"Almost dead yesterday, maybe dead tomorrow, but alive, gloriously alive, today."

Vote Count 2.3

schadd (3): The_Wine_Merchant, Witherweaver, theorel
theorel (3): pingpongsam, Joseph2302, Robz888

Not voting (3): Galzria, schadd, SpaceAnemone

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day ends Tuesday, March 27th at 5:00 p.m.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #403 on: March 26, 2018, 04:01:02 pm »

I was trying to analyse the current wagon and off-wagon configuration and could do nothing but come up with conflicting statements...
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schadd

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #404 on: March 26, 2018, 05:08:58 pm »

I'm not sure I follow what you're "interested" in.  My original collection of thoughts is just the things that seemed salient from the previous day as I considered each player (and scanned their posts to remember what happened). One of those facts is that mcmc thought there was scum in your argument with witherweaver.  My reaction to that fact, given that mcmc is town, is to temper my original reaction, because I have no particular reason to believe that my read of the situation was in fact the correct one.  I'm not embracing mcmc's reaction, because I have no particular reason to believe that his read was in fact the correct one.

It feels like you accused me of taking mcmc's read and deciding you must be scum because of it, and so I explained the "value" judgments in my reasoning (i.e. recognizing mcmc's alignment reduced my town-read, looking at the rest of the day turned it into a scum-read), but then you accused me of not making a value judgment? I'm not sure what kind of "value" you're expecting...unless you just mean the original post?  I didn't offer much value there for anyone until the conclusion...I think you're just stuck on a style thing.
you seemed to me to be cherrypicking

mcmc said ww and me might be tvs. your reaction was that it was tvt, datswan's reaction was that it was tvt (and you seem to think he was town), space's reaction was that it was tvt (idk there is a decent chance they are town, you can care about someone's read without them being even likely town)

your reaction upon seeing mcmc's post was "nah i disagree" and the fact that you said you tempered your reaction after his flip suggests you wouldn't have been especially convinced by him initially; it seemed more likely to me that you were looking for a way to drop your townread of me and noticed "oh hey mcmc disagreed with me and flipped town" than that you had become convinced by mcmc's claim (especially since your wording didn't suggest you were specifically lending credence to him, e.g. that he is a competent town player or something. that is what i was referring to with a value judgement)

as well you had a rather confident scumread of me because you thought my place on the mcmc wagon was weird but twm and i have been talking about that for a while and you haven't seemed to be interested

vote: theorel
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schadd

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #405 on: March 26, 2018, 05:09:20 pm »

that is what i was getting at with the people don't tend to defend partners thing. a lot of people here overvalue vca and are conscious of counterwagons. in response, i have observed very often that scum here will bus often and make little attempt to dislodge a scum wagon if one is building.
Not day 1. Bussing on day 1 is basically suicide. Especially with only two partners.

And I am not even talking about defending. I am just talking about a subtle move toward someone other than mcmc to make it a viable option. I actually anticipated people suspecting me of exactly that when I moved off mcmc which is why I didn't exactly spell it out yesterday.

But OK. I am not going to convince you of this. If you are town, then you are convinced you are town and did a townie thing. If you are scum I am not trying to convince you. But am interested if this idea is working for anyone else or if I am totally off base?
gosh wouldn't you think so. but people do do it. m102 galzria and pps both bussed and lynched faust d1. ww empty bussed both of his partners in 104. i don't immediately remember it for other people who were on wagon. but like people do specifically try to get things like your unvote to happen, as far as i understand that is a significant reason for pps' hammer thing.

i don't suppose the thing i did was townie (idk i could have thought it through more probably, if i had remembered pps would hammer immediately i wouldn't have voted) but i also don't suppose that i unilaterally should have not voted according to your thing
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Joseph2302

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #406 on: March 26, 2018, 06:13:36 pm »

Let's do this thing. Vote: theorel
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Joseph2302

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #407 on: March 26, 2018, 06:14:35 pm »

that is what i was getting at with the people don't tend to defend partners thing. a lot of people here overvalue vca and are conscious of counterwagons. in response, i have observed very often that scum here will bus often and make little attempt to dislodge a scum wagon if one is building.
Not day 1. Bussing on day 1 is basically suicide. Especially with only two partners.

And I am not even talking about defending. I am just talking about a subtle move toward someone other than mcmc to make it a viable option. I actually anticipated people suspecting me of exactly that when I moved off mcmc which is why I didn't exactly spell it out yesterday.

But OK. I am not going to convince you of this. If you are town, then you are convinced you are town and did a townie thing. If you are scum I am not trying to convince you. But am interested if this idea is working for anyone else or if I am totally off base?
gosh wouldn't you think so. but people do do it. m102 galzria and pps both bussed and lynched faust d1. ww empty bussed both of his partners in 104. i don't immediately remember it for other people who were on wagon. but like people do specifically try to get things like your unvote to happen, as far as i understand that is a significant reason for pps' hammer thing.

i don't suppose the thing i did was townie (idk i could have thought it through more probably, if i had remembered pps would hammer immediately i wouldn't have voted) but i also don't suppose that i unilaterally should have not voted according to your thing
Pretty sure that if schadd was scum or SK, he'd have just hammered instead of making a long post like this.
Town read on schadd therefore
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #408 on: March 26, 2018, 06:34:49 pm »

Joseph, how could schadd have hammered if he was the one putting the wagon to L-1 in the first place?

And did you realise with "Let's do the thing" that you were potentially hammering?
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #409 on: March 26, 2018, 06:37:55 pm »

Ah, I've run the vote count now. So other than schadd missing the L-1 announcement then we're good. But you two had me worried there for a while, because I'm townreading theorel!
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #410 on: March 26, 2018, 06:59:21 pm »

Galz re-read and notes.

26 game posts, though that has included some sort of too-busy-to-post period in the runup to this past weekend.

Votes WW at #113, around the schadd-v-WW disagreement, which appears to be him atking a side in that with minimal use of actual words. Makes a better case on it at #140.

Gets a bit more grumpy and confrontational for a while after that.. it's all the stuff complaining at me/TWM for expecting mcmc to cite sources, interspersed with a snark at Awaclus for not participating. This accounts for about 10 of his total game posts.

Returns to vote mcmc at #257, which seems a bit of a turnaround from insisting that it's wasting mcmc's time for us to ask him to tell us what bits of games he's referring to which his very generic statement about scum pushing roleclaims. I'm all for scum being made to do lots of extra legwork! Incidentally, it's also an unannounced L-1, though Swan queries that a couple of posts later.

Galz is also buddying up to Robz a bit in both #257 and #259, calling him a player of quality and reminiscing about old games. There's even a winky emoticon.

At #261 he asks about hwo much scum use daychat (and doesn't get called lazy for expecting other people who remember things better to go through games on his behalf!!). Possibly if I pay less attention to the irony there, I should wonder whether it's a conscious scum attempt to look townie by not knowing.. it almost seems clumsy to me in that respect.

He queries theorel's use of the term "vigged" at #283, which is one of the townier-seeming things he's done, I guess. It was his last post of D1.

Only four posts so far in D2. The first says that today (Monday) is his next available day to post, but actually his second post seems relatively townie and makes a decent point about Robz possibly feigning ignorance about the SK. His most recent two points were just puzzling over my poorly-laid-out thinking over wagons.

My overall take-home is that re-reading his D1 makes me feel scummier about him, but that his contributions to D2 seem like they could come from a busy-town place.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #411 on: March 26, 2018, 07:31:15 pm »

Robz re-read and notes

Only 19 game posts.. this won't take long, will it?

Doesn't give townpoints to Joseph for the massclaim suggestion, but also specifically says he hasn't thought about the utility of a claim in this game. Then posts about being on holiday and is gone till after a prod.

Votes mcmc on his return. He joined the wagon in L-3 position, but it was already looking inevitable. He did come in with the observation that mcmc should perhaps have voted if he was so sure one of schadd and WW would be scum, because 50% is pretty decent.

A couple more posts deal with WW's questions about his use of language around segueing away from talking about schadd-WW to talking about TWM-Galz, and whether his working implied that he also thought that one of schadd and WW may be scum.

There are a few comments back and forth with theorel about vigs, then at post #310 Robz says that scum!theorel would have known mcmc would flip town.. which is the thing Galz points out as evidence that Robz could be scum, because he's possibly-deliberately left the SK out of the thinking he presented.

At #338 Robz one-ups Galz's mini-scum-case by pointing out that Galz shouldn't have discounted SK!theorel from his thinking. I think it's invalid reasoning on Robz's part, though, because Galz was only responding to Robz's earlier statement. Possibly I'm just trying to read too much into a joke post by Robz anyway.

Robz then disappears for ages again.. and I think that's something of benefit to scum in this game, particularly as he doesn't come in with any decent excuse/apology for being prodable for a second time this game (outside of the time he was away). He comes back declaring with a townread on TWM, which seems an odd choice, because I think other people seem more townie.

I'm not impressed by his theorel vote at #400, particularly because Robz justifies it by saying "he apparently can't help himself", which sets Robz's action up as more of a policy vote because theorel is going against Robz's suggestion. Not only did theorel justify why he feels the way he does (and Robz engaged with that not at all), but for someone with a growing wagon at a point where we're nearing a deadline, I'd really like to see votes made with a definite suspicion of scumminess, or at least a pro-town intent, and this doesn't really look like either of those things.
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Witherweaver

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #412 on: March 26, 2018, 07:33:11 pm »

I would lynch Robz.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #413 on: March 26, 2018, 07:41:30 pm »

Okay, so here's my rough thinking:

Robz (scummiest end of the list)
WW, Galz
Joseph, PPS
TWM
schadd, theorel (towniest end of the list)

It rather sucks that my two biggest townreads are the two with wagons, but maybe the game is dead because there are two or three scummy people out there who have observed that town will just eat itself with little-to-no input from them.

Vote: Robz

PPE 1: yeah, go for that!
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #414 on: March 26, 2018, 07:46:03 pm »

Deadline is 10pm my time tomorrow, so I should be home from about an hour before that.

(@Joseph/anyone else on UK-linked timezones, note that we're back to being 5 hours ahead again now our clocks have changed...)
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The_Wine_Merchant

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #415 on: March 26, 2018, 08:26:42 pm »

Unvote
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #416 on: March 26, 2018, 08:31:14 pm »

I'm not impressed by his theorel vote at #400, particularly because Robz justifies it by saying "he apparently can't help himself", which sets Robz's action up as more of a policy vote because theorel is going against Robz's suggestion. Not only did theorel justify why he feels the way he does (and Robz engaged with that not at all), but for someone with a growing wagon at a point where we're nearing a deadline, I'd really like to see votes made with a definite suspicion of scumminess, or at least a pro-town intent, and this doesn't really look like either of those things.

It was mostly a policy vote, although I did have a scumread on theorel, as I had noted. I wanted to see if anyone would follow me; schadd did, but it's basically self-preservation so it doesn't say much.

Vote: Space for conveniently townreading the two main wagons--I don't buy your logic, I think you're trying to place yourself in the "see I was right camp" if we lynch town.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #417 on: March 26, 2018, 08:42:12 pm »

Vote: Space for conveniently townreading the two main wagons--I don't buy your logic, I think you're trying to place yourself in the "see I was right camp" if we lynch town.
they townread both of us well in advance of us being wagons
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schadd

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #418 on: March 26, 2018, 08:44:05 pm »

when you say you buy their logic do you mean this
It rather sucks that my two biggest townreads are the two with wagons, but maybe the game is dead because there are two or three scummy people out there who have observed that town will just eat itself with little-to-no input from them.
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Robz888

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #419 on: March 26, 2018, 08:53:56 pm »

when you say you buy their logic do you mean this
It rather sucks that my two biggest townreads are the two with wagons, but maybe the game is dead because there are two or three scummy people out there who have observed that town will just eat itself with little-to-no input from them.

I said I DON'T buy their logic
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #420 on: March 26, 2018, 08:55:39 pm »

when you say you buy their logic do you mean this
It rather sucks that my two biggest townreads are the two with wagons, but maybe the game is dead because there are two or three scummy people out there who have observed that town will just eat itself with little-to-no input from them.

Ugh you're going to make me look things up, blah.
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Robz888

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #421 on: March 26, 2018, 08:55:56 pm »

Instead of finishing this article I need to write, I got a little DAMA.
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schadd

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #422 on: March 26, 2018, 09:05:37 pm »

oups
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #423 on: March 26, 2018, 09:43:45 pm »

My access over the next couple weeks will be spotty. Basically moving across the world in a week.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #424 on: March 26, 2018, 09:45:50 pm »

Vote: Robz
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #425 on: March 26, 2018, 09:56:39 pm »

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #426 on: March 26, 2018, 10:02:29 pm »

I'm not sure I follow what you're "interested" in.  My original collection of thoughts is just the things that seemed salient from the previous day as I considered each player (and scanned their posts to remember what happened). One of those facts is that mcmc thought there was scum in your argument with witherweaver.  My reaction to that fact, given that mcmc is town, is to temper my original reaction, because I have no particular reason to believe that my read of the situation was in fact the correct one.  I'm not embracing mcmc's reaction, because I have no particular reason to believe that his read was in fact the correct one.

It feels like you accused me of taking mcmc's read and deciding you must be scum because of it, and so I explained the "value" judgments in my reasoning (i.e. recognizing mcmc's alignment reduced my town-read, looking at the rest of the day turned it into a scum-read), but then you accused me of not making a value judgment? I'm not sure what kind of "value" you're expecting...unless you just mean the original post?  I didn't offer much value there for anyone until the conclusion...I think you're just stuck on a style thing.
you seemed to me to be cherrypicking

mcmc said ww and me might be tvs. your reaction was that it was tvt, datswan's reaction was that it was tvt (and you seem to think he was town), space's reaction was that it was tvt (idk there is a decent chance they are town, you can care about someone's read without them being even likely town)

your reaction upon seeing mcmc's post was "nah i disagree" and the fact that you said you tempered your reaction after his flip suggests you wouldn't have been especially convinced by him initially; it seemed more likely to me that you were looking for a way to drop your townread of me and noticed "oh hey mcmc disagreed with me and flipped town" than that you had become convinced by mcmc's claim (especially since your wording didn't suggest you were specifically lending credence to him, e.g. that he is a competent town player or something. that is what i was referring to with a value judgement)

as well you had a rather confident scumread of me because you thought my place on the mcmc wagon was weird but twm and i have been talking about that for a while and you haven't seemed to be interested

vote: theorel

Or...maybe mcmc's reaction is relevant because it is what inspired my scum-read, whereas I don't particularly remember anyone else's reaction.  But lending credence to a town-read is a whole different ball-game IMO than lending credence to a confirmed town player.  Regarding your conversation with TWM, I dunno, it didn't seem like there was a need to interject into it?  I think my points were already made, none of them changed.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #427 on: March 26, 2018, 10:03:02 pm »

My scum-read of mcmc, not my scum-read of schadd...to clarify above post.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #428 on: March 26, 2018, 10:18:28 pm »

that is what i was getting at with the people don't tend to defend partners thing. a lot of people here overvalue vca and are conscious of counterwagons. in response, i have observed very often that scum here will bus often and make little attempt to dislodge a scum wagon if one is building.
Not day 1. Bussing on day 1 is basically suicide. Especially with only two partners.

And I am not even talking about defending. I am just talking about a subtle move toward someone other than mcmc to make it a viable option. I actually anticipated people suspecting me of exactly that when I moved off mcmc which is why I didn't exactly spell it out yesterday.

But OK. I am not going to convince you of this. If you are town, then you are convinced you are town and did a townie thing. If you are scum I am not trying to convince you. But am interested if this idea is working for anyone else or if I am totally off base?
gosh wouldn't you think so. but people do do it. m102 galzria and pps both bussed and lynched faust d1 three players not two. ww empty bussed both of his partners in 104three players not two. i don't immediately remember it for other people who were on wagon. but like people do specifically try to get things like your unvote to happen, as far as i understand that is a significant reason for pps' hammer thing. huh? Nevermind. I don't really care.

i don't suppose the thing i did was townie it wasn't. especially the way it happened. It isn't just that you voted for mcmc that was scummy. It was what you did before and how you voted (idk i could have thought it through more probably, if i had remembered pps would hammer immediately i wouldn't have voted) but i also don't suppose that i unilaterally should have not voted according to your thing I wouldn't have minded the vote had you and pps at least given it some thought (and publicly shown this by posting said thoughts instead of saying that you had thoughts retroactively).

And again. I am not super interested in what you are saying. I want to hear from everyone else.
 There are X number of townies. Can any of you townies give me some sort of input on my thoughts here?
 Seriously?

My points in red
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #429 on: March 26, 2018, 10:19:27 pm »

And sorry for the weird structure above. I am on a tablet and this site is having some really weird issues with it and trying to quote appropriately. Was the only way I could figure out how to do it and not kill myself in the process.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #430 on: March 26, 2018, 10:20:53 pm »

Both schadd and theorel's votes for each other look like they are both trying to justify voting for the other.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #431 on: March 26, 2018, 10:21:24 pm »

Vote: theorel since he apparently can't help himself

Also horrifically weak vote to leave at a crucial moment unless you actually think he is scum? I can't tell.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #432 on: March 26, 2018, 10:27:03 pm »

Vote: Robz
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #433 on: March 26, 2018, 10:31:20 pm »

Vote: theorel since he apparently can't help himself

Also horrifically weak vote to leave at a crucial moment unless you actually think he is scum? I can't tell.

I am getting scum vibes but I can't explain it really any better than I did previously.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #434 on: March 26, 2018, 11:23:08 pm »

Robz and pps. You both posted without giving comment on my thoughts on schadd. I am asking any and all townies what they rhink
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 1
« Reply #435 on: March 26, 2018, 11:43:27 pm »

Or...maybe mcmc's reaction is relevant because it is what inspired my scum-read, whereas I don't particularly remember anyone else's reaction.  But lending credence to a town-read is a whole different ball-game IMO than lending credence to a confirmed town player.  Regarding your conversation with TWM, I dunno, it didn't seem like there was a need to interject into it?  I think my points were already made, none of them changed.
i disagree that it is a different ballpark, the probability of a townread being town is p high. even a not-townread

i mean you asked me a question. did you think anything about the several walls of text i posted essentially in response to that question


that is what i was getting at with the people don't tend to defend partners thing. a lot of people here overvalue vca and are conscious of counterwagons. in response, i have observed very often that scum here will bus often and make little attempt to dislodge a scum wagon if one is building.
Not day 1. Bussing on day 1 is basically suicide. Especially with only two partners.

And I am not even talking about defending. I am just talking about a subtle move toward someone other than mcmc to make it a viable option. I actually anticipated people suspecting me of exactly that when I moved off mcmc which is why I didn't exactly spell it out yesterday.

But OK. I am not going to convince you of this. If you are town, then you are convinced you are town and did a townie thing. If you are scum I am not trying to convince you. But am interested if this idea is working for anyone else or if I am totally off base?
gosh wouldn't you think so. but people do do it. m102 galzria and pps both bussed and lynched faust d1 three players not two. ww empty bussed both of his partners in 104three players not two. i don't immediately remember it for other people who were on wagon. but like people do specifically try to get things like your unvote to happen, as far as i understand that is a significant reason for pps' hammer thing. huh? Nevermind. I don't really care.

i don't suppose the thing i did was townie it wasn't. especially the way it happened. It isn't just that you voted for mcmc that was scummy. It was what you did before and how you voted (idk i could have thought it through more probably, if i had remembered pps would hammer immediately i wouldn't have voted) but i also don't suppose that i unilaterally should have not voted according to your thing I wouldn't have minded the vote had you and pps at least given it some thought (and publicly shown this by posting said thoughts instead of saying that you had thoughts retroactively).

And again. I am not super interested in what you are saying. I want to hear from everyone else.
 There are X number of townies. Can any of you townies give me some sort of input on my thoughts here?
 Seriously?

My points in red
lmfao there are two scum

ok

it is minutia anyway. i guess i agree bussing is more unlikely but yes i would not have considered that

i mean i did give the thing you said thought. i said "people don't defend partners here" to try to communicate all this stuff from today and i guess wasn't clear


Both schadd and theorel's votes for each other look like they are both trying to justify voting for the other.
i mean i agree with you about theorel on me, that is largely what i am scumreading him for
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #436 on: March 26, 2018, 11:44:29 pm »

i sort of think robz is town

i would lynch ww as well, abouts the same level of scumread as theorel
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #437 on: March 26, 2018, 11:47:03 pm »

I was actually thinking there is no way schadd and WW are scum partners when mcmc did the thing where he said something about them being tvt.
is this the scum trap
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #438 on: March 26, 2018, 11:47:34 pm »

And sorry for the weird structure above.
i forgive u
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #439 on: March 27, 2018, 02:24:38 am »

Joseph, how could schadd have hammered if he was the one putting the wagon to L-1 in the first place?

And did you realise with "Let's do the thing" that you were potentially hammering?
I didn't notice that he was the one that L-1ed.
Ignore my previous comment then
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #440 on: March 27, 2018, 02:25:43 am »

Deadline is 10pm my time tomorrow, so I should be home from about an hour before that.

(@Joseph/anyone else on UK-linked timezones, note that we're back to being 5 hours ahead again now our clocks have changed...)
Thanks for reminding, I need to change my forum time (again!)
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #441 on: March 27, 2018, 02:26:26 am »

I'm probably not going to be around for deadline nevertheless
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #442 on: March 27, 2018, 02:28:32 am »

But Vote: Robz seems fine
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #443 on: March 27, 2018, 03:45:46 am »

Hammertime. vote: Robz
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Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #444 on: March 27, 2018, 04:27:32 am »

Wow.. I went to bed not long after voting, and now I wake up to a hammer where all my top list of scumreads have binned the wagon in between.. that doesn't seem very encouraging for me :-/
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #445 on: March 27, 2018, 04:28:51 am »

twilight until 9 a.m.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #446 on: March 27, 2018, 04:31:05 am »

Wow.. I went to bed not long after voting, and now I wake up to a hammer where all my top list of scumreads have binned the wagon in between.. that doesn't seem very encouraging for me :-/

Joined the wagon, even. Not good at phone posting.

At least Robz voted for me.. I feel like town!Robz ought to be aware that he's not playing a good game, but the vote feels quite defensive.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #447 on: March 27, 2018, 08:00:04 am »

Or...maybe mcmc's reaction is relevant because it is what inspired my scum-read, whereas I don't particularly remember anyone else's reaction.  But lending credence to a town-read is a whole different ball-game IMO than lending credence to a confirmed town player.  Regarding your conversation with TWM, I dunno, it didn't seem like there was a need to interject into it?  I think my points were already made, none of them changed.
i disagree that it is a different ballpark, the probability of a townread being town is p high. even a not-townread

i mean you asked me a question. did you think anything about the several walls of text i posted essentially in response to that question

...
I think I'm just failing to explain...you posted something not answering the question, I re-posed the question, and started a separate discussion with you and with space.  Then, you answered the question, and had a back-and-forth with TWM while I was not around.  When I returned I addressed the bits of conversation directly addressed to me.  I then went to bed, I didn't feel like there was stuff there that I had a response to that would add anything beyond what TWM was saying and what I had said previously.  To me your response was basically, "Yeah, I didn't have any good reasons"...and I don't have a response to that.  If I accuse someone of doing something scummy, and they say, "yep, that was scummy", I feel like that ends the conversation.  I do not feel like there is a point in adding to that.  At that point, the only question is whether other people think it's scummy enough for a lynch.  Now maybe you don't feel like that's what you said?  But that's how it read to me.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #448 on: March 27, 2018, 08:21:08 am »

That was a super-scummy lynch of Robz.  I should have pushed my scum-read of Galz instead of getting distracted by the schadd thing.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #449 on: March 27, 2018, 09:00:19 am »

Fuck guys?
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #450 on: March 27, 2018, 09:04:52 am »

Final Vote Count Day 2

schadd (1): theorel
theorel (1): schadd
Robz (5): SpaceAnemone, Witherweaver, pingpongsam, Joseph2302, Galzria
SpaceAnemone (1): Robz888

Not voting (1): The_Wine_Merchant

With 9 alive, it took 5 to lynch.

"I said he was worse than vile, but I did not come close. I do not believe I have ever met someone so abject and debased, yet at the same time so foul. I feel soiled from touching him, and I do not mean for the filth on his skin. Soiled in here." She touched her breast. "The degradation of his soul almost makes me doubt he has one. There is something worse to him than a Darkfriend"

Robz, aka Padan Fain, an "Aes Sedai" Serial Killer is dead.

His first and only victim, Datswan, was Alviarin of the Aes Sedai Black Ajah.

Day 3 starts Thursday at 10 a.m. Orders due by 8 a.m. that day
« Last Edit: March 27, 2018, 09:47:32 am by EFHW »
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #451 on: March 27, 2018, 09:47:19 am »

THREAD LOCKED
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - N2
« Reply #452 on: March 29, 2018, 10:37:17 am »

May you shelter in the palm of the Creator's hand. The last embrace of the mother welcome you home.

Galzria is dead.


Day 3 Start

Vote Count 3.0


Not voting (7):
Joseph2303, pingpongsam, schadd, Space Anemone, The_Wine_Merchant, theorel, Witherweaver

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Day ends Friday, April 6th at 5:00 p.m.

THREAD UNLOCKED
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 3
« Reply #453 on: March 29, 2018, 10:53:59 am »

We got lucky that the SK hit scum for us. I suppose no one rightly gets town points for lynching the SK. Hope to get a chance today to reread Datswan. If Glazria was the vig and shot last night but got NK'd does his shot fire or not? Galzria was clearly town because if he was scum and died from a vig shot we would have already won, right? Right now I'm perfectly suspicious of every single one of you.
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schadd

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 3
« Reply #454 on: March 29, 2018, 11:08:03 am »

roleblocker alive is almost a win, 3 clears between their target last night, themself, and their target tonight

either vig or flavorcop being alive and not the last night target is a win

same applies to flavorcop with two "not aes sedai"
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #455 on: March 29, 2018, 11:25:09 am »

Final Vote Count Day 2

schadd (1): theorel
theorel (1): schadd
Robz (5): SpaceAnemone, Witherweaver, pingpongsam, Joseph2302, Galzria
SpaceAnemone (1): Robz888

Not voting (1): The_Wine_Merchant

With 9 alive, it took 5 to lynch.

"I said he was worse than vile, but I did not come close. I do not believe I have ever met someone so abject and debased, yet at the same time so foul. I feel soiled from touching him, and I do not mean for the filth on his skin. Soiled in here." She touched her breast. "The degradation of his soul almost makes me doubt he has one. There is something worse to him than a Darkfriend"

Robz, aka Padan Fain, an "Aes Sedai" Serial Killer is dead.

His first and only victim, Datswan, was Alviarin of the Aes Sedai Black Ajah.

Day 3 starts Thursday at 10 a.m. Orders due by 8 a.m. that day
Important things from this:

Only 1 scum left to kill- fantastic
If SK killed scum, that means that our vig killed town N1 (if they'd killed scum then only town would be left, so game would be over)
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Joseph2302

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 3
« Reply #456 on: March 29, 2018, 11:26:16 am »

We got lucky that the SK hit scum for us. I suppose no one rightly gets town points for lynching the SK. Hope to get a chance today to reread Datswan. If Glazria was the vig and shot last night but got NK'd does his shot fire or not? Galzria was clearly town because if he was scum and died from a vig shot we would have already won, right? Right now I'm perfectly suspicious of every single one of you.
Yep Galz has to be town, so I guess scum killed and vig didn't shoot? Either that or vig killed and scum was RBed
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 3
« Reply #457 on: March 29, 2018, 11:56:20 am »

And Awaclus must have been town (?!) for the same reason
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 3
« Reply #458 on: March 29, 2018, 11:56:44 am »

But 6 v 1 is a great position to be in.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 3
« Reply #459 on: March 29, 2018, 11:57:04 am »

And neither of the 2 claimed SKs were actually the SK
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #460 on: March 29, 2018, 12:04:24 pm »

If SK killed scum, that means that our vig killed town N1 (if they'd killed scum then only town would be left, so game would be over)
uh
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #461 on: March 29, 2018, 12:25:47 pm »

If SK killed scum, that means that our vig killed town N1 (if they'd killed scum then only town would be left, so game would be over)
uh

ikr, i'm about lose my title as worst setup resolver ever.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 3
« Reply #462 on: March 29, 2018, 01:26:50 pm »

Great! We pretty much have this! Thank you to Robz for taking out a scum for us.. that's MVP stuff :-)

I'm the Foxhead Amulet. I have a "not aes sedai" result on schadd from N1. I have a valid result on a still-alive player from last night, too. I'll reveal it only after a mass-claim is done.

As for claiming order, how about taking my scum-to-chum list order from post #413, since starting a wagon on my top scumread there worked out pretty well for us?

WW
Joseph
PPS
TWM
Theorel
Schadd
Me
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 2
« Reply #463 on: March 29, 2018, 01:28:54 pm »

If SK killed scum, that means that our vig killed town N1 (if they'd killed scum then only town would be left, so game would be over)
uh

ikr, i'm about lose my title as worst setup resolver ever.
It could be useful info.
Although if we massclaim, then we'll find much more
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 3
« Reply #464 on: March 29, 2018, 01:29:19 pm »

Great! We pretty much have this! Thank you to Robz for taking out a scum for us.. that's MVP stuff :-)

I'm the Foxhead Amulet. I have a "not aes sedai" result on schadd from N1. I have a valid result on a still-alive player from last night, too. I'll reveal it only after a mass-claim is done.

As for claiming order, how about taking my scum-to-chum list order from post #413, since starting a wagon on my top scumread there worked out pretty well for us?

WW
Joseph
PPS
TWM
Theorel
Schadd
Me
Order is fine by me. Although I've already claimed SK
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 3
« Reply #465 on: March 29, 2018, 01:38:19 pm »

Although I've already claimed SK

Why yes, lynching people telling obvious lies is exactly what massclaim is about...
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 3
« Reply #466 on: March 29, 2018, 01:40:36 pm »

I'm fine with the plan to mass-claim at this point.  I am however going to be out of town Sat-Tues, so that could easily mess things up if people end up having to wait for me.  I can claim before I leave tomorrow whether it's my turn or not I suppose.
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Witherweaver

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 3
« Reply #467 on: March 29, 2018, 02:37:04 pm »

I'll say that I am Rand Al'Thor, the Shield, and I'll claim my targets after everyone else claims.
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theorel

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 3
« Reply #468 on: March 29, 2018, 02:43:41 pm »

Yeah, sorry, I'm not willing to drag this out.
I'm scum, I surrender, town wins.

If I counter-claim anyone I'm lynched tomorrow at best.  So, I'm forced to claim VT.
At which point, you have 4 ICs and 3 unknowns.  You don't even need to use any powers to win.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 3
« Reply #469 on: March 29, 2018, 02:45:17 pm »

gg town, sucked that datswan didn't submit a nk order night 1, and I missed the deadline by like a half-hour.
Then SK hitting scum n1 and town hitting SK day2.  Perfect storm, well-played everyone.
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Witherweaver

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 3
« Reply #470 on: March 29, 2018, 02:45:50 pm »

Well alright then.

Vote: theorel

for wagonstats!
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 3
« Reply #471 on: March 29, 2018, 02:47:30 pm »

I roleblocked Robz Night 1 (which he had one-shot immunity to as SK, which is good since he hit scum with it), and Schadd Night 2.
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theorel

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 3
« Reply #472 on: March 29, 2018, 02:53:33 pm »

Oh, I guess they weren't technically ICs...oops...that was dumb.
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theorel

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 3
« Reply #473 on: March 29, 2018, 02:57:22 pm »

Forgot that I could argue for the potential of a claimed PR being a scum fake-claiming.  Oh well.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 3
« Reply #474 on: March 29, 2018, 03:46:51 pm »

The game still needs to come to a formal end. Lynch or concession by QT/PM.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 3
« Reply #475 on: March 29, 2018, 03:47:08 pm »

I knew theorel was scum. Totally vindicated.

Vote: theorel
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 3
« Reply #476 on: March 29, 2018, 03:48:38 pm »

Also Space being the PR explains the iffiness I had on him, same for WW to a lesser extent because I always suspect WW. the only person I felt real good about being town was TWM.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 3
« Reply #477 on: March 29, 2018, 03:48:50 pm »

*them
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - N2
« Reply #478 on: March 29, 2018, 03:55:58 pm »

"Death is lighter than a feather, duty heavier than a mountain."

Vote Count 3.1

theorel (2): Witherweaver, pingpongsam

Not voting (5): Joseph2302, schadd, Space Anemone, The_Wine_Merchant, theorel

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Day ends Friday, April 6th at 5:00 p.m.

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 3
« Reply #479 on: March 29, 2018, 04:51:52 pm »

Vote: theorel
Not sure I like this ending though
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Mafia Stats: (correct as of 2017)
Town: 22 games, 8 wins
Scum: 5 games, 3 wins

The_Wine_Merchant

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 3
« Reply #480 on: March 29, 2018, 06:11:32 pm »

vote: theo
Logged
Wins: M91, M96, NM10, M98, M102, M105
Losses: M100, M103, M104, M109, M112

MVPs: M91, M96
Win percentage: 54.5 (6/11)

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 3
« Reply #481 on: March 29, 2018, 06:13:48 pm »

I was big and shot awaits cause he would rather spectate.

I was going to shoot galz but had self control as I figured game would be easier to figure out if less non flip deaths were floating around

Also totally knew space was cop. Reason I ended up unvoting schadd
Logged
Wins: M91, M96, NM10, M98, M102, M105
Losses: M100, M103, M104, M109, M112

MVPs: M91, M96
Win percentage: 54.5 (6/11)

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 3
« Reply #482 on: March 29, 2018, 06:14:03 pm »

*vig
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Losses: M100, M103, M104, M109, M112

MVPs: M91, M96
Win percentage: 54.5 (6/11)

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 3
« Reply #483 on: March 29, 2018, 06:28:42 pm »

Vote: theorel
Not sure I like this ending though

Naah, we totally had it in the bag anyway. I actually cleared schadd and PPS. WW claimed a role and wasn't about to be counterclaimed, and if he had been counterclaimed, we could just have lynched both him and the counterclaimant and secured the win. I think EFHW is absolutely right to make the day run its course, though.

I'd overstated my townread on theorel towards the end of D2, because it seemed the safest way to push schadd as townie without giving away that I had extra information. That was because schadd was not reading as townie to me in the slightest... In the absence of my "not aes sedai" result on him, I'd totally have given into pressure and joined his lynch :-P Having seemingly wacky townreads just seemed the surest way of diverting from schadd and onto someone I was actively scumreading. Re-reading theorel after getting Swan's flip made me wonder about his D2 opening in retrospect, but certainly earlier on I'd read him as nullish-to-maybe-town, so I think he played well.

I was only being coy about giving away my "not Aes Sedai" result on PPS because I wanted the remaining scum to worry that I had something incriminating on them, in the hope they'd come out as vig, because even forcing a 1v1 was great for town, and a quicker win for us than risking running up to lylo. I've actually really enjoyed the way the gameplay made me have to do reads while simultaneously trying to plot role stuff behind the scenes :-)

Anyway, vote: theorel

Logged
Congratulations! Your SpaceAnemone evolved into UniverseAnemone!
Town games: M84(L), M85(W), M86(L), M87(W), M88(L), M90(L), M92(W), M94(L), M97(L), M99(W), M100(L), M104(W), M107(W), M110(L), M112(L), RMM37(L), RMM40(D), RMM41(L), RMM43(L), RMM47(W), ZM23(W).
Scum games: M89(D), M108(L), NM8(W&MVP), NM10(L)   Mod: NM9, RMM38, RMM42.   Pronouns: they/them

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 3
« Reply #484 on: March 29, 2018, 06:30:16 pm »

Also totally knew space was cop. Reason I ended up unvoting schadd

Haha.. guess I wasn't quite as good at hiding that as I'd hoped. Please don't tell theorel your secret to reading me :-)
Logged
Congratulations! Your SpaceAnemone evolved into UniverseAnemone!
Town games: M84(L), M85(W), M86(L), M87(W), M88(L), M90(L), M92(W), M94(L), M97(L), M99(W), M100(L), M104(W), M107(W), M110(L), M112(L), RMM37(L), RMM40(D), RMM41(L), RMM43(L), RMM47(W), ZM23(W).
Scum games: M89(D), M108(L), NM8(W&MVP), NM10(L)   Mod: NM9, RMM38, RMM42.   Pronouns: they/them

EFHW

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Game Over! Town Wins!
« Reply #485 on: March 29, 2018, 06:47:19 pm »

"The grave is no bar to my call."

Vote Count 3.2

theorel (4): Witherweaver, pingpongsam, Joseph2302, The_Wine_Merchant

Not voting (3): schadd, Space Anemone, theorel

With 7 alive, it took 4 to lynch.
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Game Over! Town Wins!
« Reply #486 on: March 29, 2018, 06:47:39 pm »

Theorel was Liandrin of the Aes Sedai Black Ajah

Galzria was Nynaeve al'Meara, former Wisdom of Emond's Field and member of the Yellow Ajah and he walked in the Light.

Awaclus was Reanne Corley, Eldest of the Kin in Ebou Dar and he walked in the Light.

The violet dome disappeared and TWM (Egwene Al'Vere, the Amyrlin Seat and Aes Sedai Vigilante), Witherweaver (Rand Al'Thor, the Dragon Reborn and Town Shield/Roleblocker), SpaceAnemone (Mat Cauthon, and owner of the Foxhead Amulet/the Town Flavor Cop), Joseph2302 (Aviendha, Wise One of the Nine Valleys sept of the Taardad Aiel), pingpongsam (Rhuarc, Clan Chief of the Taardad Aiel ) and schadd (Moiraine Damodred, a member of the Blue Ajah) all breathed a sigh of relief. Then they quickly woke themselves up as thunder and lightning began storming overhead. Apparently a Forsaken was having a tantrum.

If only Tarmon Gaidon could be this easy!

Well played, town! MVP to SpaceAnemone for instigating the Robz lynch.


Mod QT (First message contains links to all the other game QT's): https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/GQCFYmDUem8Q

Speccy QT: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/yajjiuVGBgm
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The_Wine_Merchant

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Day 3
« Reply #487 on: March 29, 2018, 06:49:34 pm »

Also totally knew space was cop. Reason I ended up unvoting schadd

Haha.. guess I wasn't quite as good at hiding that as I'd hoped. Please don't tell theorel your secret to reading me :-)

I think I was more keyed in on it due to the GG game where I was trying to get you to lunch IDPTG, but you wouldnt because you had a result on him, but we’re hiding it. I think?

You have been a cop a lot lately.
Logged
Wins: M91, M96, NM10, M98, M102, M105
Losses: M100, M103, M104, M109, M112

MVPs: M91, M96
Win percentage: 54.5 (6/11)

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Game Over! Town Wins!
« Reply #488 on: March 29, 2018, 06:57:49 pm »

YASSS THEOREL SCUM

literally did not matter but i'm happy with that
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Game Over! Town Wins!
« Reply #489 on: March 29, 2018, 06:58:33 pm »

my scumpool for today was gonna be witherweaver space and theorel which is hilarious
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Game Over! Town Wins!
« Reply #490 on: March 29, 2018, 07:17:16 pm »

not really much in here https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/RYqnfRQPjPy

Quote from: ww
Schadd backing off on me seems scummy. Kind of like he knew he was in the wrong in our argument and didn't want to keep pushing it.
mother hugger u motherhugging deflected to mcmc

Quote from: ds
Schadd has no reason to TR me from what i can tell.
u might be right
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pingpongsam

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Game Over! Town Wins!
« Reply #491 on: March 29, 2018, 08:21:17 pm »

Thanks, EFHW, for the game. The setup was serious business. I was relieved to be VT. The noflip portion made the game much more what I enjoy, playing from the heart instead of the head.
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Galzria

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Game Over! Town Wins!
« Reply #492 on: March 29, 2018, 08:54:16 pm »

Thanks EFHW!

I was surprised to find myself dead D3, but had I not been Theorel was pretty clearly scum at that point so I wouldn't have voted for or made a case against anybody else barring incriminating results. Didn't end up mattering, but I was probably a decent kill choice for Theorel to make based solely on that.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Galzria

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Game Over! Town Wins!
« Reply #493 on: March 29, 2018, 08:55:26 pm »

 I'm sad though to have finally found the time to put in, went all N2 getting to Theorel being scum, and then wound up dead
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Galzria

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Game Over! Town Wins!
« Reply #494 on: March 29, 2018, 09:30:31 pm »

Ooh, glad to see my cop softclaim drew attention. Would've gotten me NK'd N1 had scum shot, which was the idea behind it.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Game Over! Town Wins!
« Reply #495 on: March 29, 2018, 09:33:00 pm »

Ooh, glad to see my cop softclaim drew attention. Would've gotten me NK'd N1 had scum shot, which was the idea behind it.
And in the end it's still why I shot you...so it worked even better.
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Galzria

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Game Over! Town Wins!
« Reply #496 on: March 29, 2018, 09:44:22 pm »

Haha, had we somehow lynched Schadd D2, Robz was going to shoot Theorel. Ouch.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Game Over! Town Wins!
« Reply #497 on: March 29, 2018, 09:56:32 pm »

oh ya thanks for the game
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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Game Over! Town Wins!
« Reply #498 on: March 29, 2018, 10:16:45 pm »

Haha, had we somehow lynched Schadd D2, Robz was going to shoot Theorel. Ouch.

Yep!

Incidentally, I shot DatSwan because I thought people would reach the conclusion I was unlikely to shoot him, given that he had wrongly attributed someone else's remarks to me.

I was trying to draw some attention to myself when I posted that series of scummy things... I was worried if everyone kept townreading me I'd get lynched on Day 3. The quickhammer was... unexpected.

Good job town, and YOU'RE WELCOME.
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Galzria

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Game Over! Town Wins!
« Reply #499 on: March 29, 2018, 10:23:52 pm »

Haha, had we somehow lynched Schadd D2, Robz was going to shoot Theorel. Ouch.

Yep!

Incidentally, I shot DatSwan because I thought people would reach the conclusion I was unlikely to shoot him, given that he had wrongly attributed someone else's remarks to me.

I was trying to draw some attention to myself when I posted that series of scummy things... I was worried if everyone kept townreading me I'd get lynched on Day 3. The quickhammer was... unexpected.

Good job town, and YOU'RE WELCOME.

Sorry, but I really was trying to draw a NK from scum. Between my Cop softclaim D1, and M113, wherein I was both less active than normal and a PR...:

vote: SC
Hammertime

I was hoping that there was enough there to draw the NK (Hope is different than expect, mind you. I did not EXPECT to die N2):

Hammertime. vote: Robz
Logged
Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Game Over! Town Wins!
« Reply #500 on: March 29, 2018, 10:27:55 pm »

Thinking on it more, even if I could somehow avoid getting lynched I'm pretty sure I had still lost...
You only needed 3 unlynchable players and a vig to win it.

There were 3 possibilities for me:
1. Space investigated me...I had already lost
2. Space investigated vanilla townie.
In this case you had:
2 confirmed towns (schadd + other result).  + guaranteed 2 of 3 honest vig, cop, blocker.
Suppose 1 player in this game is scum...you lynch outside the pool of 5.  Then vig the remaining player, and roleblock the cop (who cops roleblocker).
Suppose vig is scum. If he shoots anywhere else, then he's guaranteed scum...so, lynch him. 
Otherwise, cop verifies he was roleblocked, and it's either vig or cop, 5 players, so lynch them both and win.
Suppose cop is scum.  He got blocked, if he claims "blocked" it's situation 2 above (cop or vig).  If he claims roleblocker is scum, then it's between the two of them, can easily kill both (even have an extra vig shot)
Suppose blocker is scum. If he shoots anyone, he's revealed as scum, since this is the only possible 2-kill situation.  If he doesn't shoot, cop copped him, and with 5 players you can lynch cop and blocker.
So, regardless of who the scum is, town wins.

3. Space investigated the vig.
In this case finally you only have 1 confirmed town.  You have 3 claimed PRs, and 1 of them might be scum.  Then there are 3 other players, and one of them might be scum.  I'm not sure town can guarantee the win here.  Let's see suppose they lynch an unconfirmed-VT, vig another, cop the last one and roleblock the cop.
Then if there are 2 kills overnight, the cop is known town, and the vig is known town.  If the extra kill is the vig, then the cop says if he was roleblocked or not.  If not, the roleblocker is scum, if so, the remaining VT is scum.  If the extra kill is the cop, simply lynch the roleblocker, and vig the remaining VT.  So, in this case town wins.
If there is 1 kill overnight, then if cop says he's blocked, it's either vig, cop, or remaining VT.  Lynch the VT, vig the cop. If town didn't win, lynch the vig (he was scum, so only 1 kill).
If cop says he wasn't blocked.  It's either the cop or the blocker. Lynch one and vig the other.

I'm pretty sure that covers all cases.  I could have waited for Space's claim, to know if it was the easy case, or the hard case...
blocking the cop is unintuitive, and so scum might be able to trick town into thinking that they can't confirm everyone and get to a 50-50 lylo (with 4 players and no vig).  But I feel less bad about missing the fact that townies needed to consider that a claimed PR might be scum.  Since in fact, they could win if they co-ordinated regardless of who the scum was.
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Robz888

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Game Over! Town Wins!
« Reply #501 on: March 29, 2018, 11:25:47 pm »

Theorel, you were absolutely done, don't think you were wrong to resign at all.
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I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.

mcmcsalot

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Re: M114: Wheel of Time II - Game Over! Town Wins!
« Reply #502 on: March 30, 2018, 08:48:44 am »

Haha, had we somehow lynched Schadd D2, Robz was going to shoot Theorel. Ouch.

Yep!

Incidentally, I shot DatSwan because I thought people would reach the conclusion I was unlikely to shoot him, given that he had wrongly attributed someone else's remarks to me.

I was trying to draw some attention to myself when I posted that series of scummy things... I was worried if everyone kept townreading me I'd get lynched on Day 3. The quickhammer was... unexpected.

Good job town, and YOU'RE WELCOME.

SK RObz has a pretty uncanny shoot mafia rate. You shot me in in mafia 98 when I was scum as well.
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
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