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Author Topic: Motley batch  (Read 2298 times)

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popsofctown

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Motley batch
« on: March 06, 2018, 02:13:14 am »
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Chemistry $0P Action - Treasure
+1 Buy.
Play an action or treasure from the supply.  Trash it when it would leave play.  Trash Chemistry.  You may gain a potion.

Seasonal Commision
6$ Treasure - Duration
Worth 3$
When you play this, reveal your hand and trash all Actions in your hand or play area.  For each card trashed this way, gain a differently named Action of that cost or less.  At the start of your next turn, return Seasonal Commision and each card you trashed this way to the supply and gain a Gold.

Brewer 3$ Action - Attack
Name a card.  If you have one copy of that card on your Tavern mat for each opponent, each opponent gains a copy from your mat.  Put any number of cards with that name from your hand onto your Tavern Mat.

Mayor 5$ Victory
Worth 4 VP
_____________
Your provinces are worth 4 VP

Crucible 3$ Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
_______________________
While this is in play, Silver is worth 1$ more, but when you play a treasure, it's not worth $ if there are more Treasures in play than Crucibles.
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dz

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Re: Motley batch
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2018, 02:25:23 am »
+1

So does Chemistry move the card into play? And why do you also have to lose Chemistry? And does it HAVE to cost P? Like there's no other way to do it?

For Seasonal Commision, why do you have to trash them, wait till the next turn to then return them to their pile? That means you're going to have to look through the trash and put them all back in the pile, which would be tedious. Instead just return them immediately.

Brewer and Crucible seem really confusing and messy. Mayor seems fine.
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popsofctown

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Re: Motley batch
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2018, 03:36:06 am »
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So does Chemistry move the card into play? And why do you also have to lose Chemistry? And does it HAVE to cost P? Like there's no other way to do it?


For Seasonal Commision, why do you have to trash them, wait till the next turn to then return them to their pile? That means you're going to have to look through the trash and put them all back in the pile, which would be tedious. Instead just return them immediately.


Brewer and Crucible seem really confusing and messy. Mayor seems fine.
Comparison to Overlord makes me feel like Chemistry isn't unique enough from Overlordunless it's a potion card, the way Alchemists needs potions to feel different enough from Lab, and that P is less than <8> so it probably needs to trash the Chemistry.  But I'm with you on feeling like it needs to be powered up from there, that's why I sprinkled + buy on it and then the potion gain.  Maybe even it could have a better other bonus too.

Seasonal Commission is a power level adjustment, for it to miss reshuffles more, and for the cards it gains to miss reshuffles more.  It is the same reason that Caravan isn't an Action card that reads "+1 Card, +1 Action, draw an additional card in cleanup this turn.".  It's only tedious if you refuse to use sensible shortcuts; it's pretty obviously useful to put the cards in a separate pile considered "special part of the trash" instead of actually burying them in the trash.

You could just consider those cards "set aside with Seasonal Commission" for a card that is the same aside from "when you trash this" triggers.  I think I like the triggers better, but I'm not positive it's the better version.

I think Mayor is also my favorite.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2018, 03:46:44 am by popsofctown »
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Jack Rudd

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Re: Motley batch
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2018, 08:45:55 am »
+3

I shall play a Chemistry as a Chemistry, which I shall play as a Chemistry, which I shall carry on doing until the pile is empty.
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Drab Emordnilap

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Re: Motley batch
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2018, 09:03:01 am »
+1

Re: Mayor

This effect doesn't currently exist (obviously) and that's fine. But once this effect exists, the effect "your provinces are worth 8vp" could also exist. If you have both Mayor and this other card, how much are your provinces now worth?
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Gazbag

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Re: Motley batch
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2018, 11:38:27 am »
+1

Chemistry: This can play Treasures in the Action phase and Actions in the buy phase, is this intentional? Also it gain and plays the entire Chemistry pile as Jack Rudd pointed out, but that's easy to fix. It seems like a pretty wonky overcomplicated Overlord to me.

Seasonal Commission: So it's just a Gold that can change all your actions and occasionally misses a shuffle? This should either just trash the actions or return them. More importantly though this seems like it would be better as an Event? Why would you buy it otherwise?

Brewer: Seems too similar to Ambassador, I don't think Ambassador really needs any spin-off cards, nobody likes Ambassador. Also manages to be much weirder than Ambassador, Ambassador is already a weird card!

Mayor: I like where this is going, although in it's current form it might play very similarly to Duke. I'd try it at different costs and vp values and see if it works anywhere.
Crucible: Seems like a lot of nonsense to go through for a fancy Merchant. It also seems much better than Merchant and Merchant is a pretty good card. I'm guessing this is Grand Market for $3 without much trouble, you just have to trash Coppers and Buy Crucibles to get around the drawback which seems like things you'd be doing anyway so not much of a drawback?


Re: Mayor

This effect doesn't currently exist (obviously) and that's fine. But once this effect exists, the effect "your provinces are worth 8vp" could also exist. If you have both Mayor and this other card, how much are your provinces now worth?

Inheritance exists so another thing that changes the types and effects of Estates could exist, so what do your Estates do when both are used?
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Cave-o-sapien

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Re: Motley batch
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2018, 12:42:58 pm »
+1

Re: Mayor

This effect doesn't currently exist (obviously) and that's fine. But once this effect exists, the effect "your provinces are worth 8vp" could also exist. If you have both Mayor and this other card, how much are your provinces now worth?

I really like the idea of Mayor, but it does seem quite unusual for a card to change the VP worth of another card directly. Even if we think that Pasture "makes your Estates worth 2VP", we know it doesn't actually work like that.

Having said that, I don't know how to fix it and maintain what you're trying to achieve.
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markusin

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Re: Motley batch
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2018, 02:19:20 pm »
0

Re: Mayor

This effect doesn't currently exist (obviously) and that's fine. But once this effect exists, the effect "your provinces are worth 8vp" could also exist. If you have both Mayor and this other card, how much are your provinces now worth?

I really like the idea of Mayor, but it does seem quite unusual for a card to change the VP worth of another card directly. Even if we think that Pasture "makes your Estates worth 2VP", we know it doesn't actually work like that.

Having said that, I don't know how to fix it and maintain what you're trying to achieve.

You can do a horrible thing with a personal token on Mayor that you take when gaining Mayor for the first time, similar to Trade Route or the Adventure tokens, and this token is worth -2VP per Province you have at the end of the game. The drawback here is that you would still have the token if you trasher your last Mayor, and you don't get it if you got Mayor through Masquerade.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2018, 02:20:34 pm by markusin »
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Neirai the Forgiven

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Re: Motley batch
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2018, 02:36:04 pm »
+1

There are some really interesting concepts here, but I think you'll need to iterate over these a lot to land them. Here are some suggestions:

Chemistry $0P Action - Treasure
+1 Buy.
Play an action or treasure from the supply.  Trash it when it would leave play.  Trash Chemistry.  You may gain a potion.
This should be an Event, since having to buy it then trash it slows it down to the point where I wouldn't spend a Potion on it.
Also, you might want to consider capping the targets so players don't just use it on Platinums. Or not.

Seasonal Commision
6$ Treasure - Duration
Worth 3$
When you play this, reveal your hand and trash all Actions in your hand or play area.  For each card trashed this way, gain a differently named Action of that cost or less.  At the start of your next turn, return Seasonal Commision and each card you trashed this way to the supply and gain a Gold.
I suggest:
Quote
Seasonal Commission - Treasure $6
$3
At the start of your Clean-up, exchange each Action you have in play for a differently named Action of equal or less cost, and exchange this for a Gold.
Warning: this still is a great way to make people spend 10 minutes deciding what to do with all their actions. Also, if they have more than one Seasonal Commission in play........

Brewer 3$ Action - Attack
Name a card.  If you have one copy of that card on your Tavern mat for each opponent, each opponent gains a copy from your mat.  Put any number of cards with that name from your hand onto your Tavern Mat.
My advice on this is totally different: I'd completely rework it to be a card that collects copies of the named card and then puts them into your hand. So something like "Name a card. Put any number of cards with that name from your hand onto your Tavern Mat. Reveal your hand. If your hand contains copies of the named card, put all the copies from your Tavern Mat into your hand." Then playtest it to death to determine what the cost of it should actually be.

Mayor 5$ Victory
Worth 4 VP
_____________
Your provinces are worth 4 VP
This is a fun idea but the problem (other than what other players say) is, why would I buy a Province, then? I guess to end the game? Although perhaps that is the point, to make is so that players buy Mayors and then tries to end the game before the players who buy no Mayors can get a lead. In which case, this is pretty decent, although testing will determine costings.

[Crucible 3$ Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
_______________________
While this is in play, Silver is worth 1$ more, but when you play a treasure, it's not worth $ if there are more Treasures in play than Crucibles.
I'd do this (warning: phase breaking!) like so:
Quote
Crucible - Action $3
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
Play a Treasure card
-
While this is in play, Silver is worth +$1, and you cannot play Treasures during your Buy phase.
Normal comment about testing.
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popsofctown

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Re: Motley batch
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2018, 08:44:06 pm »
0

Chemistry: This can play Treasures in the Action phase and Actions in the buy phase, is this intentional? Also it gain and plays the entire Chemistry pile as Jack Rudd pointed out, but that's easy to fix. It seems like a pretty wonky overcomplicated Overlord to me.

Seasonal Commission: So it's just a Gold that can change all your actions and occasionally misses a shuffle? This should either just trash the actions or return them. More importantly though this seems like it would be better as an Event? Why would you buy it otherwise?

Brewer: Seems too similar to Ambassador, I don't think Ambassador really needs any spin-off cards, nobody likes Ambassador. Also manages to be much weirder than Ambassador, Ambassador is already a weird card!

Mayor: I like where this is going, although in it's current form it might play very similarly to Duke. I'd try it at different costs and vp values and see if it works anywhere.
Crucible: Seems like a lot of nonsense to go through for a fancy Merchant. It also seems much better than Merchant and Merchant is a pretty good card. I'm guessing this is Grand Market for $3 without much trouble, you just have to trash Coppers and Buy Crucibles to get around the drawback which seems like things you'd be doing anyway so not much of a drawback?


Re: Mayor

This effect doesn't currently exist (obviously) and that's fine. But once this effect exists, the effect "your provinces are worth 8vp" could also exist. If you have both Mayor and this other card, how much are your provinces now worth?

Inheritance exists so another thing that changes the types and effects of Estates could exist, so what do your Estates do when both are used?
Inheritance is inherently timestamped though.

I like Nerai's Crucible and Seasonal Commision wordings.

I'm kind of ok with Duke coming up too frequently, like, I really enjoy Duke games. 
 
I did try to camp out the most unoccupied space, though, 3-4 range alt VP is crowded by Silk Road and Gardens (or it would be if Silk Roads didn't suck as much?), and Fairground's cost wouldn't be substantially meaningfully difference if it were an engine payload card, but I think is a substantial difference when it's a sloggy card.

"When you buy a Province, you may gain a Mayor" seems interesting.  Do you necessarily take that deal, with Mayor at 5/4? 

Chemistry doesn't break anymore if you just add the word another or make it a potion cost event.  The card is kind of not awesome, but potion costs are fighting uphill you know.
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Neirai the Forgiven

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Re: Motley batch
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2018, 07:38:23 pm »
+1

Chemistry doesn't break anymore if you just add the word another or make it a potion cost event.  The card is kind of not awesome, but potion costs are fighting uphill you know.

Personally, I'd actually make Chemistry an Event that just plays an action or treasure from the Supply and then rats you with a Potion. Potions aren't necessarily useless (especially in a heavy-Alchemy kingdom) but if you get too many of them, they're less useful.
You might need to up the cost, then, however. I personally would make it cost PP.
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popsofctown

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Re: Motley batch
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2018, 01:26:05 am »
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Chemistry doesn't break anymore if you just add the word another or make it a potion cost event.  The card is kind of not awesome, but potion costs are fighting uphill you know.

Personally, I'd actually make Chemistry an Event that just plays an action or treasure from the Supply and then rats you with a Potion. Potions aren't necessarily useless (especially in a heavy-Alchemy kingdom) but if you get too many of them, they're less useful.
You might need to up the cost, then, however. I personally would make it cost PP.
Ben Brode would say you have captured the soul of the card
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