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Author Topic: Let's discuss: $2 defensive cards  (Read 452 times)

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crj

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Let's discuss: $2 defensive cards
« on: February 27, 2018, 11:22:38 am »
+2

There are now quite a lot of these: Moat,  Lighthouse and Guardian offer straightforward immunity; Secret Chamber (retired), Beggar and Faithful Hound let the attack through but affect how it pans out.

It's easy to see mechanically how they differ, but which ones defend you best in practice? And which are the best to have in your deck when not being attacked? Would any of them be worth buying in a kingdom that had no attacks?

An alternative to defence is retaliation; instead of buying these, you could be buying attacks and trying to give as good as you get. Another alternative is repair: trashing the junk, draw-to-N, etc. Where's the balance there?

Do Hexes, with their unpredictable variety of effects, make repair harder and shift the balance in favour of offence/defence?

If you're going to buy these cards, when's the right time? Are they worth spending a $3 on before the first shuffle? Do you buy them in advance, or wait until your opponents have started picking up attacks? Guardian protects you the same shuffle you buy it rather than waiting for the next shuffle; how much of a benefit is that?
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Holunder9

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Re: Let's discuss: $2 defensive cards
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2018, 11:53:51 am »
+1

But which ones defend you best in practice? And which are the best to have in your deck when not being attacked? Would any of them be worth buying in a kingdom that had no attacks?
I'd answer Lighthouse to these 3 questions.
I'd also answer Faithful Hound to the second and third question, it can be good when you have discard for benefit.
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Gazbag

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Re: Let's discuss: $2 defensive cards
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2018, 12:18:02 pm »
+2

Guardian and Lighthouse are the best defence, Guardian has better defence than Lighthouse but is weaker when in your deck so it balances out. Moat is the beast out of the others, Faithful Hound doesn't really defend against attacks unless you wanted the Hound anyway, Beggar as attack defence almost never happens. It's generally not worth adding the reactions to your deck in 2p unless you have a use for the action part.

When not being attacked Moat and Faithful Hound can be decent enough draw so you buy them sometimes, the dog also has it's discard tricks which can be pretty good. Lighthouse can be fine in draw-to-X decks as a Silver that plays more nicely in that type of deck, Guardian has uses in the opening letting you open Guardian/$5 on a 3/4 start, Beggar is good when it's good.

The important thing is that the only one's that are good at blocking attacks are Guardian and Lighthouse because you don't have to draw them in your 5 card hand for them to work. Only buy the others when you want them anyway.
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Awaclus

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Re: Let's discuss: $2 defensive cards
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2018, 12:27:47 pm »
+4

It's easy to see mechanically how they differ, but which ones defend you best in practice?

Is it Moat?
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Jack Rudd

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Re: Let's discuss: $2 defensive cards
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2018, 01:19:59 pm »
+4

It's easy to see mechanically how they differ, but which ones defend you best in practice?

Is it Moat?
It doesn't count, you know, if the meme could actually be a plausible answer to the question.
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Re: Let's discuss: $2 defensive cards
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2018, 02:24:16 pm »
+2

I was surprised by how effective Beggar was at defending against Knight attacks in a game I once played (and lost). Aside from that, I'm not sure I've ever seen it used in defense.

For the rest, I agree with pretty much everything Gazbag said.
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enfynet

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Re: Let's discuss: $2 defensive cards
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2018, 02:28:01 pm »
+4

Page provides you the best defense, eventually.
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crj

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Re: Let's discuss: $2 defensive cards
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2018, 06:45:02 pm »
0

I was surprised by how effective Beggar was at defending against Knight attacks in a game I once played (and lost). Aside from that, I'm not sure I've ever seen it used in defense.
I would consider Tunnel a defensive card. If someone plays a hand-size attack, you're likely to get a benefit that outweighs the penalty. And that in turn is a deterrent from playing such an attack. (Or, at least, that held before everyone around here decided Gold was a sucky card, which still feels like a surprising conclusion to reach...)

Beggar's reaction isn't that good, of course. But it's not nothing. And Knights are by no means the only attack which goes after the top of your deck.
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crj

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Re: Let's discuss: $2 defensive cards
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2018, 06:53:42 pm »
0

Guardian has better defence than Lighthouse but is weaker when in your deck so it balances out.
But you can play Guardian even if you draw it "dead". Is that definitely weaker than $1 this turn which depends on you still having actions?

Quote
Faithful Hound doesn't really defend against attacks unless you wanted the Hound anyway

Hmm. Yes. Interesting point.

Though if there's a Hound strategy and a non-Hound strategy on the board, the Hound strategy countering discard attacks might tip the balance in its favour.
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trivialknot

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Re: Let's discuss: $2 defensive cards
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2018, 08:46:30 pm »
0

Guardian has better defence than Lighthouse but is weaker when in your deck so it balances out.
But you can play Guardian even if you draw it "dead". Is that definitely weaker than $1 this turn which depends on you still having actions?
In a typical kingdom, the best draw might be some smithy variant, and then you only draw 3 cards dead per turn at most.  So this might let you play Guardian more often than Lighthouse, but probably not twice as often.  It's not enough to make up for the fact that Lighthouse gives twice as much money.

Usually you don't have Guardian and Lighthouse next to each other, and you just buy the one that's available because you need the defense and can't be picky.  But even if they were together in the same kingdom, I could see Guardian getting some use, because of the ability to play immediately. 
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