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[jonvs]

Hi, all! Apologies if this is the wrong category to post this.

After looking at my first-edition Dominion cards, I was thinking to myself earlier, 'Why would Donald X. have created a card like Feast in the first place, when Silver is cheaper and much more valuable? I'm not surprised it was removed in the update.' But then I thought, 'What if buying Silver were no longer an option? Then Feast might actually be worth the purchase.' And that's what gave me the idea for a special game of Dominion where there are no treasure cards: no starting coppers, and no options to buy Silver, Gold, etc. later.

Obviously if I were to do this variant, the kingdom choice would have to be carefully selected. There would also have to be a village or two and several options for +$1/+$2. It also could make the game a lot longer and make Duchies more important. I feel there would likely be a three-pile ending, because Provinces might be difficult to snag without Gold (but maybe not).

An idea for the starting decks:
- (Shelters)
- Cellar
- Pawn
- Poacher
- Village
- Vassal
- Woodcutter

One potential Kingdom:
$2
- Lighthouse
- Courtyard (or Smithy)

$3
- Shanty Town (or Fishing Village, etc.)
- Steward
- Workshop (or Ironworks or Armory)

$4
- Feast
- Mill

$5
- Festival
- Market
- Vault

Some other options that could work:
- Band of Misfits
- Bridge (or Highway, etc.)
- Caravan
- Masquerade
- Minion
- Monument
- Sauna & Avanto

I'm not sure if cards like Lurker or Remodel (or Upgrade, Replace, etc.) would make the game too swingy, or if you'd need one or two of those to make the game more playable.

Some cards that would definitely not work well with this setup, if at all:
- Adventurer
- Bandit, Thief, Cutpurse, Noble Brigand
- Black Market
- Coppersmith
- Loan, Venture, etc. (though I suppose they're Treasures, so they wouldn't be included anyway)
- Mine (or Mint)
- Moneylender
- Mountebank
- Poor House
- Squire (or Count, Courtier, etc.)
- Treasure Map
... etc.

Also, having strong attacks might make the game last forever (can you even imagine this setup with Enchantress? or Cultist?), and you couldn't play almost anything from Alchemy.

What are everyone's thoughts on this? Would you be willing to try it?

[Awaclus]

Well, Silver isn't really more valuable than Feast. Silver takes up a slot in your deck, whereas Feast disappears (whether that's an advantage or a disadvantage depends on the situation), and Feast actually guarantees that you hit $5, which Silver doesn't do.

The Silver Test also isn't a very useful concept because you aren't forced to buy a Silver if you're not buying anything better. The more useful test is the Nothing Test — every time you're about to buy a card, ask yourself if that card is better than nothing and if it isn't, don't buy it. Feast actually passes the Nothing Test more often than Silver does (because it disappears).

[LibraryAdventurer]

I like this idea, and kindof want to try it now. In some games, you don't want to buy any treasure anyway, but it still sounds neat to use this as a variant.

subvariants of this variant:
1) Fully treasureless: What jonvs said. Use alternate starting cards and carefully choose kingdom cards.
2) Hard to get Silver & Gold: Silver and Gold (and Platinum in a colony game) are not in the supply. You cannot gain them except when a card specifically says to "gain a silver", "gain a gold", or "gain a treasure". Would still want to carefully choose kingdom cards. Include Mine (or Taxman/Hero/Fallen Hero) if it's a Colony game.
3) Extreme Bandit Fort: -2VP each time you play a silver or gold (or platinum). -1VP each time you play any other treasure after the first two turns.
4) Fully coinless: Fully treasureless and... ignore all +$ on action cards. Use alternate starting cards (hermit without the madman clause?), custom kingdom with gainers and VP token cards, and/or maybe a province-gaining fan card with some kind of extra on-play cost. (Perhaps allow Horn of Plenty as a night card.)

PS: The variant & fan cards subforum is the place to post stuff like this.
[EDIT: added platinum]

[crj]

A simple hack would be to include the Alms Event. Then you could get hardcore and start people with a deck consisting of just three Estates.

[ConMan]

A simple hack would be to include the Alms Event. Then you could get hardcore and start people with a deck consisting of just three Estates.

Or Borrow plus Poor House, which gets a significant boost in that case.

[jonvs]

Well, I tried it (actually, I tried it the day after I posted this but didn’t update it)!

Here was our game:

Starting Decks: 3 Shelters, 2 Mills, 1 Poacher, 1 Village, 1 Pawn, 1 Woodcutter, and an Estate.
Kingdom: Lighthouse, Courtyard, Masquerade, Workshop, Feast, Monument, Festival, Market, Minion, Band of Misfits.

After the first two turns or so it actually felt like a relatively normal game of Dominion. The only thing was that the turns took extra time because of all the chains of cantrips. But once you got a good hand you could buy some money cards and trash your junk cards with Masquerade, so it became relatively normal after a while.

I’d do it again with two or three players … we played with five, and it took a long time between turns, so I’d advise against that. But just in case anyone is wondering: it can be done! And it does pose an interesting challenge!