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Author Topic: Proposed Change for Season 27: B Champion Matches  (Read 583 times)

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samath

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Proposed Change for Season 27: B Champion Matches
« on: February 23, 2018, 06:14:05 pm »
+6

Hi everyone! As one of your league moderators, I've been looking at various ways to make the league better. I'd like to share an idea I've had that, if a combination of the players in the league and my fellow moderators agree, wouldn't go into effect until next season. (To be clear, I haven't won them over yet, and opinions here are my own, not the moderator team's as a whole).

If you're new or otherwise aren't aware, at the end of every season, the top two players from A play in a "Champion Match" to determine the league champion that year. The results of this 6-game match are added to the season's results, which just means that sometimes the leader only needs to win one or two of the six games. The Champion Match is a big event at the end of the year; it's usually streamed on Twitch with commentary and lots of spectators.

My proposal is to add analogous Champion Matches to other divisions. That is, for the prize of promoting to the next level, the top two players from each division would play an additional 6-game match, and those results would be added to the final results of the division to determine the winner. To the extent possible, we would also make big events out of these Champion Matches with streaming and commentary.

In particular, I'd most like to see this happen in the B division, where the prize (promotion to A) and quality of play are both highest. If it's successful and scales, we could potentially extend it to C, D, and E in subsequent seasons, but for now my proposal is simply to add a champion match to the two B divisions.

The main reason I'd like to see this is to add more end-of-season events like the Champion Matches in A. Those are nice for building community, showcasing talent, and (to a lesser extent) providing a dramatic finale to the season. B Champion Matches would ideally achieve the same goals, and additionally would also help ensure that those who promote into A are the best against strong competition (not that we've had any problems with that in the past).

There could also be an additional twist: The second-place finisher from B2 could play the top finisher from B1, and vice-versa. We balance the divisions (by rating at the beginning of the season) so there isn't a concern about imbalance, but it could happen that two players from the same division both have exceptionally good seasons, yet (under the current system, and under my proposal without this twist) only one of them may advance. Additionally, this cross-division battle would make for new matches that didn't take place during the season, unlike the current champion's matches.

What do you think? At some point we might hold a vote, but for now I'm most interested in hearing whether this is something that league participants would be interested in.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2018, 10:10:37 pm by samath »
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Donald X.

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Re: Proposed Change for Season 27: B Champion Matches
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2018, 02:01:34 am »
0

Well I'm not in the league but it sounds good to me.
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Bryan

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Re: Proposed Change for Season 27: B Champion Matches
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2018, 01:59:43 pm »
+2

First off, thanks for trying to make the league better Sam, we all appreciate your work.

I'm against this for a few reasons;
1. It's more matches to schedule per season, and a repeat opponent.
2. I don't really like the idea of a "6th chance" uneven match where one player has a desperation shot at winning 5/6 or something like that
3. All the normal league games should matter equally, so this might just be putting undue focus on one particular match (especially in the need 5/6 wins case)
4. I think people who are going to watch matches will just watch anyway, since we announce all of our matches in discord

The cross division idea might be okay, its at least not a repeat opponent (1) and adds more information from outside the group. I don't know how you would compare the records of the two groups, though. For instance, what if one group had only 5 players.
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DG

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Re: Proposed Change for Season 27: B Champion Matches
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2018, 02:58:30 pm »
+1

I'd prefer not to play an extra match, and not against one of the same opponents. I suggested in the past having two A groups with a play off between the top spot(s) in each group. You could also have a promotion/relegation match between a second place in one division vs a second bottom in another, which would be a fresh match.
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Rabid

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Re: Proposed Change for Season 27: B Champion Matches
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2018, 03:01:41 pm »
+1

An alternative might be to feature more of the regular season games.
Pick a "game of the week" to make a big deal out of and provide commentary.
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samath

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Re: Proposed Change for Season 27: B Champion Matches
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2018, 04:36:04 am »
+1

To the question of how to compare divisions with unequal numbers of games played: I think in this case we would just compare the average number of wins, including the final game. For instance, if we had implemented this last season, the two matches would have been PerryGreen (14/24) versus Burning Skull (16.5/30) and tracer (13/24) versus gloures (18/30). If you work it out, this would have meant that Burning Skull would need to win 3.5 to advance over PerryGreen, while tracer would need to win 4 to advance over gloures.
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samath

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Re: Proposed Change for Season 27: B Champion Matches
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2018, 06:38:58 am »
+1

Also, to the question of the competitiveness of these matches, I ran the numbers on the 25 seasons we have to date. The average number of games in the champion match that the second-place finisher would need to win is 4.5, or 4.4 with the twist. In 37% of cases (36% with the twist), the underdog would need to win 5 or more matches to promote. (In 4% of cases, i.e. twice, there would be no need for a match.) The full histogram is attached.
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WQB

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Re: Proposed Change for Season 27: B Champion Matches
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2018, 07:24:21 am »
0

I like the idea and I would like to try it out next season!
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ato.gurkan

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Re: Proposed Change for Season 27: B Champion Matches
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2018, 01:15:57 am »
+1

Hi,

I voiced my opinion in discord, but would like to repeat and elaborate more here.

I am in favor matches between 1st place in B1 vs 2nd place in B2 and vice versa. For these matches, I feel we need to take into account the performance during the season, but I am not sure how. Every solution makes some assumption. For me, the players being more or less evenly distributed between two divisions is the safest assumption, though surely this will be wrong in some seasons.

I  think this eliminates some chance factor in promoting from B to A. Sometimes the player who just got demoted from A is particularly strong and I'd consider the players ending up in their division particularly unlucky. This would balance things a little in situations like that. Of course if that person ends up second in their division, then if makes the winner of the other division particularly unlucky.

As a secondary reason, I think it would be cool to have more commentated games, especially if they are arranged to be viewed easily in a large number of timezones (I am at UTC+3 and miss a lot of matches I'd like to watch). This is becoming less important for me since a number of good players commentate on  high level games and publish on YouTube nowadays (and also I am busy with other things in my life). The players themselves publishing is not the same thing since I find the spectator chat both entertaining and educative.

Finally I am against having top two finishers from a single division to play a match to promote. This is an additional burden for many and I do not see much of an upside. This is Dominion, sometimes you will be unlucky; if you want a second chance, play next season as well  ;) On a more serious note, I think this falls firmly into "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" category.

If such a change, in any form, is to be implemented, I believe we need more community input.

cheers,
--therem
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samath

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Re: Proposed Change for Season 27: B Champion Matches
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2018, 10:10:27 pm »
+1

Hi everyone,

Due to a variety of factors (lack of interest among my fellow moderators, a much greater number of publicized matches this season, and a huge influx of new players in the coming season), we will not be pursuing Champion Matches in the B Division at this time. Sorry to all who were interested -- I'm sure there will be plenty more opportunities for high-stakes matches in the future!

SamE
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