Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7  All

Author Topic: very short strategy article  (Read 37403 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

faust

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3376
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
  • Respect: +5142
    • View Profile
Re: very short strategy article
« Reply #75 on: February 26, 2018, 06:13:29 am »
+2

And you super can ignore Nomad Camp's impact on the opening
Nope. If you open with Nomad Camp chances to hit 5 on turn 2 are 40%. Decent enough of there is an important junker/trasher that costs $5 and which you otherwise MIGHT only get after the second shuffle instead of the first.

Chances of terminal collison are, if memory serves right, around 30% so depending on the Kingdom this could very well be better than e.g. Silver/Silver. In short, your exaggerated, unconditional claims are wrong. If they were true Nomad Camp would have to cost $2 as it is, in your opinion, ALWAYS worse than Woodcutter.
Nomad Camp is super bad and worse than Woodcutter.
Sorry dude, it ain't.
Your reasoning is truly mesmerizing.
Awaclus claimed two things, that Nomad Camp is a bad choice in the opening and that during the game he'd prefer Woodcutter. That boils down to claiming that Nomad Camp is worse than Woodcutter which implies that it'd have to cost $2 which implies that DXV made a big blunder while designing Nomad Camp.

Obviously this is wrong and I don't know why I am even responding to him or you.
So if card A is worse then card B, then card A must cost less then card B?

So Sentry should really cost $1 since it is worse than Chapel.
Logged
You say the ocean's rising, like I give a shit
You say the whole world's ending, honey it already did

Holunder9

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 837
  • Respect: +380
    • View Profile
Re: very short strategy article
« Reply #76 on: February 26, 2018, 06:19:21 am »
0

So Sentry should really cost $1 since it is worse than Chapel.
Dude, you might want to do yourself a favour and read the entire thread. It is kind of very remotely about the notion of "strictly better", whether it should include costs or not and comparing very similar cards like Walled Village and Village or, big surprise, Nomad Camp and Woodcutter with each other.
Well, I guess you already know that and, like some infamous other poster, just play for deflection.
Logged

faust

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3376
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
  • Respect: +5142
    • View Profile
Re: very short strategy article
« Reply #77 on: February 26, 2018, 06:24:31 am »
0

So Sentry should really cost $1 since it is worse than Chapel.
Dude, you might want to do yourself a favour and read the entire thread. It is kind of very remotely about the notion of "strictly better", whether it should include costs or not and comparing very similar cards like Walled Village and Village or, big surprise, Nomad Camp and Woodcutter with each other.
Well, I guess you already know that and, like some infamous other poster, just play for deflection.
I know what this thread is about. I don't see how this backs up your argument that one card CANNOT be worse than another if it costs more. That, mind you, was the argument you were making.
Logged
You say the ocean's rising, like I give a shit
You say the whole world's ending, honey it already did

faust

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3376
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
  • Respect: +5142
    • View Profile
Re: very short strategy article
« Reply #78 on: February 26, 2018, 06:25:53 am »
0

Fun fact: I once knew another guy whose username started with "Ho" and ended in some digit. You remind me of him.
Logged
You say the ocean's rising, like I give a shit
You say the whole world's ending, honey it already did

Holunder9

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 837
  • Respect: +380
    • View Profile
Re: very short strategy article
« Reply #79 on: February 26, 2018, 06:39:33 am »
0

I know what this thread is about.
Doubtful given that went on a tangent and compared Sentry with Chapel.

Quote
I don't see how this backs up your argument that one card CANNOT be worse than another if it costs more. That, mind you, was the argument you were making.
Nope. All I did was to point out that Awaclus basically claimed that Nomad Camp is always worse than Woodcutter which implies that it would have to be cheaper (unless you ignore "strictly better" rules and would be fine with Walled Village costing $3) which is simply wrong.

Fun fact: I once knew another guy whose username started with "Ho" and ended in some digit. You remind me of him.
If this is some veiled "hoe" insult better let it be.
Logged

Donald X.

  • Dominion Designer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6357
  • Respect: +25671
    • View Profile
Re: very short strategy article
« Reply #80 on: February 26, 2018, 06:40:08 am »
+14

Awaclus claimed two things, that Nomad Camp is a bad choice in the opening and that during the game he'd prefer Woodcutter. That boils down to claiming that Nomad Camp is worse than Woodcutter which implies that it'd have to cost $2 which implies that DXV made a big blunder while designing Nomad Camp.

Obviously this is wrong and I don't know why I am even responding to him or you.
I've made lots of mistakes, so I wouldn't end with "...implies that DXV made a big blunder" as if that got you anywhere. You have to figure out how good a card is separate from that.

A key thing to understand here is that costs in the $2-$4 range are very similar. The differences for most cards boil down to 1) openings, 2) +Buys, and 3) perception. Here you don't want to load up on either, so +Buys isn't a factor (even though the card itself means we know they're available), and the Nomad Camp opening is deceptive, it does give you a shot at a Woodcutter/$5 opening but it passes it off as a $4/$5 opening, which it isn't. What really matters though is perception. Nomad Camp looks like Woodcutter with a bonus, and so has to cost more than $3... because there are some people who hate strictly better cards! I got to use the term the way I like to. There are people who hate it if one card is strictly better than another, and there's no pull the other way, no reason I need to make strictly better cards. So, Nomad Camp costs $4.

I said "most cards" because sometimes the cost is relevant to the power level in some sneaky way; the example I always think of first is, Border Village was too weak, so I raised its cost from $5 to $6.

Anyway Nomad Camp is of course intended to be Woodcutter with a bonus. Most players do not regularly draw their deck, even if they'd like to. Sometimes you are lamenting not having +Buy, and Nomad Camp gets it into your next hand. But when you're drawing your deck and decide oops now you need +Buy, putting Nomad Camp on top hurts your chance of drawing your deck next turn, since it's a "stop card." And some players draw their deck often enough that therefore overall Nomad Camp looks worse than Woodcutter to them.

Nomad Camp is of course worse than lots of $2's and $3's, including some that give +1 Buy. It's impossible to avoid, especially when e.g. you can't make cards strictly better than Woodcutter.
Logged

Holunder9

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 837
  • Respect: +380
    • View Profile
Re: very short strategy article
« Reply #81 on: February 26, 2018, 06:48:36 am »
+1

Anyway Nomad Camp is of course intended to be Woodcutter with a bonus. Most players do not regularly draw their deck, even if they'd like to. Sometimes you are lamenting not having +Buy, and Nomad Camp gets it into your next hand. But when you're drawing your deck and decide oops now you need +Buy, putting Nomad Camp on top hurts your chance of drawing your deck next turn, since it's a "stop card." And some players draw their deck often enough that therefore overall Nomad Camp looks worse than Woodcutter to them.
To be fair I also think that back when you made Nomad Camp engines occured a bit more rarely in games than today. Or is that just my distorted perception due to Adventures and the second editions featuring less terminals?
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11808
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
  • Respect: +12846
    • View Profile
    • Birds of Necama
Re: very short strategy article
« Reply #82 on: February 26, 2018, 07:28:39 am »
0

And you super can ignore Nomad Camp's impact on the opening
Nope. If you open with Nomad Camp chances to hit 5 on turn 2 are 40%. Decent enough of there is an important junker/trasher that costs $5 and which you otherwise MIGHT only get after the second shuffle instead of the first.

Chances of terminal collison are, if memory serves right, around 30% so depending on the Kingdom this could very well be better than e.g. Silver/Silver. In short, your exaggerated, unconditional claims are wrong. If they were true Nomad Camp would have to cost $2 as it is, in your opinion, ALWAYS worse than Woodcutter.
Nomad Camp is super bad and worse than Woodcutter.
Sorry dude, it ain't.

You want to play that cage match?
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's Creative Commons albums for free

LaLight

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 774
  • Shuffle iT Username: LaLight
  • Because I'm a potato
  • Respect: +971
    • View Profile
Re: very short strategy article
« Reply #83 on: February 26, 2018, 07:30:13 am »
0

And you super can ignore Nomad Camp's impact on the opening
Nope. If you open with Nomad Camp chances to hit 5 on turn 2 are 40%. Decent enough of there is an important junker/trasher that costs $5 and which you otherwise MIGHT only get after the second shuffle instead of the first.

Chances of terminal collison are, if memory serves right, around 30% so depending on the Kingdom this could very well be better than e.g. Silver/Silver. In short, your exaggerated, unconditional claims are wrong. If they were true Nomad Camp would have to cost $2 as it is, in your opinion, ALWAYS worse than Woodcutter.
Nomad Camp is super bad and worse than Woodcutter.
Sorry dude, it ain't.

You want to play that cage match?

Will you play IRL tho?
Logged
Wins: 15, 10
Losses: 11, 5, 1
Draws: 1
MVPs: 4
Mod/Co-mod: 18

I always have a limited access to forum on weekends.

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11808
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
  • Respect: +12846
    • View Profile
    • Birds of Necama
Re: very short strategy article
« Reply #84 on: February 26, 2018, 07:35:31 am »
0

And you super can ignore Nomad Camp's impact on the opening
Nope. If you open with Nomad Camp chances to hit 5 on turn 2 are 40%. Decent enough of there is an important junker/trasher that costs $5 and which you otherwise MIGHT only get after the second shuffle instead of the first.

Chances of terminal collison are, if memory serves right, around 30% so depending on the Kingdom this could very well be better than e.g. Silver/Silver. In short, your exaggerated, unconditional claims are wrong. If they were true Nomad Camp would have to cost $2 as it is, in your opinion, ALWAYS worse than Woodcutter.
Nomad Camp is super bad and worse than Woodcutter.
Sorry dude, it ain't.

You want to play that cage match?

Will you play IRL tho?

If he's in Joensuu, then sure.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's Creative Commons albums for free

LaLight

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 774
  • Shuffle iT Username: LaLight
  • Because I'm a potato
  • Respect: +971
    • View Profile
Re: very short strategy article
« Reply #85 on: February 26, 2018, 07:35:51 am »
0

And you super can ignore Nomad Camp's impact on the opening
Nope. If you open with Nomad Camp chances to hit 5 on turn 2 are 40%. Decent enough of there is an important junker/trasher that costs $5 and which you otherwise MIGHT only get after the second shuffle instead of the first.

Chances of terminal collison are, if memory serves right, around 30% so depending on the Kingdom this could very well be better than e.g. Silver/Silver. In short, your exaggerated, unconditional claims are wrong. If they were true Nomad Camp would have to cost $2 as it is, in your opinion, ALWAYS worse than Woodcutter.
Nomad Camp is super bad and worse than Woodcutter.
Sorry dude, it ain't.

You want to play that cage match?

Will you play IRL tho?

If he's in Joensuu, then sure.

Problem is there's no Woodcutter on Shuffle IT
Logged
Wins: 15, 10
Losses: 11, 5, 1
Draws: 1
MVPs: 4
Mod/Co-mod: 18

I always have a limited access to forum on weekends.

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11808
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
  • Respect: +12846
    • View Profile
    • Birds of Necama
Re: very short strategy article
« Reply #86 on: February 26, 2018, 07:41:06 am »
0

And you super can ignore Nomad Camp's impact on the opening
Nope. If you open with Nomad Camp chances to hit 5 on turn 2 are 40%. Decent enough of there is an important junker/trasher that costs $5 and which you otherwise MIGHT only get after the second shuffle instead of the first.

Chances of terminal collison are, if memory serves right, around 30% so depending on the Kingdom this could very well be better than e.g. Silver/Silver. In short, your exaggerated, unconditional claims are wrong. If they were true Nomad Camp would have to cost $2 as it is, in your opinion, ALWAYS worse than Woodcutter.
Nomad Camp is super bad and worse than Woodcutter.
Sorry dude, it ain't.

You want to play that cage match?

Will you play IRL tho?

If he's in Joensuu, then sure.

Problem is there's no Woodcutter on Shuffle IT

Woodcutter doesn't have to be there, there's Nomad Camp.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's Creative Commons albums for free

pacovf

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3499
  • Multiediting poster
  • Respect: +3838
    • View Profile
Re: very short strategy article
« Reply #87 on: February 26, 2018, 09:53:15 am »
+2

And you super can ignore Nomad Camp's impact on the opening
Nope. If you open with Nomad Camp chances to hit 5 on turn 2 are 40%. Decent enough of there is an important junker/trasher that costs $5 and which you otherwise MIGHT only get after the second shuffle instead of the first.

Chances of terminal collison are, if memory serves right, around 30% so depending on the Kingdom this could very well be better than e.g. Silver/Silver. In short, your exaggerated, unconditional claims are wrong. If they were true Nomad Camp would have to cost $2 as it is, in your opinion, ALWAYS worse than Woodcutter.
Nomad Camp is super bad and worse than Woodcutter.
Sorry dude, it ain't.

You want to play that cage match?

Will you play IRL tho?

If he's in Joensuu, then sure.

Problem is there's no Woodcutter on Shuffle IT

Woodcutter doesn't have to be there, there's Nomad Camp.

It would have to be to do a proper cage match. He is claiming that Nomad Camp is better than Woodcutter, not that it’s better than nothing. You would have to buy at least one to prove them wrong.
Logged
pacovf has a neopets account.  It has 999 hours logged.  All his neopets are named "Jessica".  I guess that must be his ex.

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11808
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
  • Respect: +12846
    • View Profile
    • Birds of Necama
Re: very short strategy article
« Reply #88 on: February 26, 2018, 10:06:01 am »
0

It would have to be to do a proper cage match. He is claiming that Nomad Camp is better than Woodcutter, not that it’s better than nothing. You would have to buy at least one to prove them wrong.

The only requirement for a proper cage match is that Nomad Camp is always present in the kingdom. The purpose of cage matches isn't to prove anyone wrong in the first place, it's to learn how to play a card better.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's Creative Commons albums for free

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9701
  • Respect: +10741
    • View Profile
Re: very short strategy article
« Reply #89 on: February 26, 2018, 10:33:09 am »
0

It would have to be to do a proper cage match. He is claiming that Nomad Camp is better than Woodcutter, not that it’s better than nothing. You would have to buy at least one to prove them wrong.

The only requirement for a proper cage match is that Nomad Camp is always present in the kingdom. The purpose of cage matches isn't to prove anyone wrong in the first place, it's to learn how to play a card better.

Yeah, perhaps if we were talking about "is Witch or Cultist stronger", then a game that has both, where each player agrees to not buy a different one of them would be a good judge. But when we're talking about Woodcutter vs Nomad Camp, then the correct play in the vast majority of games is to not buy either when both are available. So for Awaclus to demonstrate what he's intending to; he just needs to play a game where he doesn't buy Nomad Camp, while the other player does.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11808
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
  • Respect: +12846
    • View Profile
    • Birds of Necama
Re: very short strategy article
« Reply #90 on: February 26, 2018, 11:01:45 am »
0

Yeah, perhaps if we were talking about "is Witch or Cultist stronger", then a game that has both, where each player agrees to not buy a different one of them would be a good judge. But when we're talking about Woodcutter vs Nomad Camp, then the correct play in the vast majority of games is to not buy either when both are available. So for Awaclus to demonstrate what he's intending to; he just needs to play a game where he doesn't buy Nomad Camp, while the other player does.

I never got the idea of buy restrictions in cage matches. Just have the card(s) present and see what happens — if you lose games while following your own advice, then your advice is probably bad, and if you don't even follow your own advice yourself (within reason), then your advice is also probably bad. I mean, if someone is claiming that you never want to buy Cultist when Witch is present, and someone else is claiming the opposite, then the buy restriction would at least match with the respective claims they're making, but it would still be unnecessary because those people wouldn't buy the other card anyway if they're following their own advice. In this case however, I'm not claiming that you never want Nomad Camp, and Holunder isn't claiming that you always do, so that buy restriction doesn't even match with what we're trying to demonstrate.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's Creative Commons albums for free

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9701
  • Respect: +10741
    • View Profile
Re: very short strategy article
« Reply #91 on: February 26, 2018, 11:34:45 am »
0

Yeah, perhaps if we were talking about "is Witch or Cultist stronger", then a game that has both, where each player agrees to not buy a different one of them would be a good judge. But when we're talking about Woodcutter vs Nomad Camp, then the correct play in the vast majority of games is to not buy either when both are available. So for Awaclus to demonstrate what he's intending to; he just needs to play a game where he doesn't buy Nomad Camp, while the other player does.

I never got the idea of buy restrictions in cage matches. Just have the card(s) present and see what happens — if you lose games while following your own advice, then your advice is probably bad, and if you don't even follow your own advice yourself (within reason), then your advice is also probably bad. I mean, if someone is claiming that you never want to buy Cultist when Witch is present, and someone else is claiming the opposite, then the buy restriction would at least match with the respective claims they're making, but it would still be unnecessary because those people wouldn't buy the other card anyway if they're following their own advice. In this case however, I'm not claiming that you never want Nomad Camp, and Holunder isn't claiming that you always do, so that buy restriction doesn't even match with what we're trying to demonstrate.

The Cultist vs Witch example is more in the context of 2 players both trying to figure out which is stronger, as opposed to 2 players starting out with different opinions / advice on which one you should buy.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

pacovf

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3499
  • Multiediting poster
  • Respect: +3838
    • View Profile
Re: very short strategy article
« Reply #92 on: February 26, 2018, 02:02:02 pm »
+2

I felt like Holunder was claiming that Nomad Camp was better than Woodcutter, and you were claiming the opposite. If Woodcutter is not in the set, then the cage match wouldn’t be able to prove nor disprove either of the statements. At best, it would just prove whether Nomad Camp is better than nothing (or silver, I guess) or not. But maybe I misunderstood Holunder’s initial position?

In either case, this discussion is not sufficiently interesting for me to argue either way nor go back to fish for quotes.
Logged
pacovf has a neopets account.  It has 999 hours logged.  All his neopets are named "Jessica".  I guess that must be his ex.

markusin

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3846
  • Shuffle iT Username: markusin
  • I also switched from Starcraft
  • Respect: +2437
    • View Profile
Re: very short strategy article
« Reply #93 on: February 26, 2018, 02:20:38 pm »
0

I felt like Holunder was claiming that Nomad Camp was better than Woodcutter, and you were claiming the opposite. If Woodcutter is not in the set, then the cage match wouldn’t be able to prove nor disprove either of the statements. At best, it would just prove whether Nomad Camp is better than nothing (or silver, I guess) or not. But maybe I misunderstood Holunder’s initial position?

In either case, this discussion is not sufficiently interesting for me to argue either way nor go back to fish for quotes.

You can simulate well enough with Messenger, where Alms is on the board to simulate its cost of $3 and you never use the deck discard ability.

The point of contention seemed to be whether or not topdecking a Woodcutter on gain makes it better or worse.
Logged

Gazbag

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 735
  • Shuffle iT Username: Gazbag
  • Respect: +1003
    • View Profile
Re: very short strategy article
« Reply #94 on: February 26, 2018, 02:30:44 pm »
0

I think the main purpose would be to show that Nomad opening isn't good.
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11808
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
  • Respect: +12846
    • View Profile
    • Birds of Necama
Re: very short strategy article
« Reply #95 on: February 26, 2018, 03:16:06 pm »
0

I felt like Holunder was claiming that Nomad Camp was better than Woodcutter, and you were claiming the opposite. If Woodcutter is not in the set, then the cage match wouldn’t be able to prove nor disprove either of the statements.

It sure would. I'm saying that it's only ever a good idea to buy Nomad Camp when the topdecking is bad. While this does mean that Woodcutter is better, it's not in any way dependent on Woodcutter's existence.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's Creative Commons albums for free

blueblimp

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2849
  • Respect: +1559
    • View Profile
Re: very short strategy article
« Reply #96 on: February 26, 2018, 05:12:39 pm »
+1

Anyway Nomad Camp is of course intended to be Woodcutter with a bonus. Most players do not regularly draw their deck, even if they'd like to. Sometimes you are lamenting not having +Buy, and Nomad Camp gets it into your next hand. But when you're drawing your deck and decide oops now you need +Buy, putting Nomad Camp on top hurts your chance of drawing your deck next turn, since it's a "stop card." And some players draw their deck often enough that therefore overall Nomad Camp looks worse than Woodcutter to them.
To be fair I also think that back when you made Nomad Camp engines occured a bit more rarely in games than today. Or is that just my distorted perception due to Adventures and the second editions featuring less terminals?
This is true. Nomad Camp was released in Hinterlands, the last expansion on isotropic, and the last expansion before Dark Ages. In that era, engines were often good, but not always, and sometimes would require top-notch piloting to outperform more straightforward strategies. In the end game of non-engine strategies, when you miss Duchy at $4, then buying a Nomad Camp can be an OK way to increase the chance of Duchy or Province the next turn.

IGG also came out in Hinterlands and IGG rushes were often strong. Spending your first turn's $4 on Nomad Camp is a pretty reasonable thing to do in an IGG kingdom.

Nomad Camp was always considered a weak card, but at the time I think it would have been rated above Woodcutter. Qvist's 2012 ranking put Nomad Camp at 133 and Woodcutter at 151. Oops, that was a "favorite" list, not a "best" list.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2018, 05:17:07 pm by blueblimp »
Logged

Chris is me

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2745
  • Shuffle iT Username: Chris is me
  • What do you want me to say?
  • Respect: +3457
    • View Profile
Re: very short strategy article
« Reply #97 on: February 26, 2018, 06:08:28 pm »
+2

Anyway Nomad Camp is of course intended to be Woodcutter with a bonus. Most players do not regularly draw their deck, even if they'd like to. Sometimes you are lamenting not having +Buy, and Nomad Camp gets it into your next hand. But when you're drawing your deck and decide oops now you need +Buy, putting Nomad Camp on top hurts your chance of drawing your deck next turn, since it's a "stop card." And some players draw their deck often enough that therefore overall Nomad Camp looks worse than Woodcutter to them.
To be fair I also think that back when you made Nomad Camp engines occured a bit more rarely in games than today. Or is that just my distorted perception due to Adventures and the second editions featuring less terminals?
This is true. Nomad Camp was released in Hinterlands, the last expansion on isotropic, and the last expansion before Dark Ages. In that era, engines were often good, but not always, and sometimes would require top-notch piloting to outperform more straightforward strategies. In the end game of non-engine strategies, when you miss Duchy at $4, then buying a Nomad Camp can be an OK way to increase the chance of Duchy or Province the next turn.

IGG also came out in Hinterlands and IGG rushes were often strong. Spending your first turn's $4 on Nomad Camp is a pretty reasonable thing to do in an IGG kingdom.

Nomad Camp was always considered a weak card, but at the time I think it would have been rated above Woodcutter. Qvist's 2012 ranking put Nomad Camp at 133 and Woodcutter at 151. Oops, that was a "favorite" list, not a "best" list.

The other big thing was Fool's Gold, which a Nomad Camp opening let you get two of in combination with terminal +Buy. This was pretty good for Fool's Gold money strategies which back then were really popular.
Logged
Twitch channel: http://www.twitch.tv/chrisisme2791

bug me on discord

pm me if you wanna do stuff for the blog

they/them

Jack Rudd

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1323
  • Shuffle iT Username: Jack Rudd
  • Respect: +1379
    • View Profile
Re: very short strategy article
« Reply #98 on: February 26, 2018, 06:14:15 pm »
0

Treasure Map's another card where you want Nomad Camp's on-gain ability. Although it's not always easy to buy a $4 card on the turn you activate your Treasure Maps.
Logged
Centuries later, archaeologists discover the remains of your ancient civilization.

Evidence of thriving towns, Pottery, roads, and a centralized government amaze the startled scientists.

Finally, they come upon a stone tablet, which contains but one mysterious phrase!

'ISOTROPIC WILL RETURN!'

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11808
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
  • Respect: +12846
    • View Profile
    • Birds of Necama
Re: very short strategy article
« Reply #99 on: February 26, 2018, 06:26:31 pm »
+1

Treasure Map's another card where you want Nomad Camp's on-gain ability. Although it's not always easy to buy a $4 card on the turn you activate your Treasure Maps.

Treasure Map is another card whose topdecking is a drawback.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's Creative Commons albums for free
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7  All
 

Page created in 0.171 seconds with 22 queries.