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Author Topic: Concept: Season token  (Read 1595 times)

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dominator 123

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Concept: Season token
« on: February 20, 2018, 09:52:13 am »
+3

One day I was thinking about what good unexplored ideas there are for non-attack player interaction. Then the concept of counting if a pile had an odd or even number of cards in it came to my mind. But I realised that would be too cumbersome in play, so instead I decided it would be better to use a token to keep track of this, by flipping the token whenever a card from the pile is gained, which works the same way barring a few edge cases. Then I realised I could extend the token flipping concept to other triggers.

All these cards have the card type "Seasonal". It means, this pile starts with a Season token on it (face up), and you flip it whenever you gain that card (unless stated otherwise). Also, when a card refers to " the Season token", it refers to the one on its pile (unless stated otherwise).

Card A $2
Action-Seasonal
+2 Cards
+1 Action
If the Season token is face up, discard 2 cards.

Simplest idea. Can be a cheap Lab, but at worse is worse than Warehouse. This card is in the bad state when the pile is empty, so it will not be broken.

Card B $4
Action-Seasonal
+2 Cards
If the season token is face up, trash any number of cards from your hand and gain an equal number of Coppers to your hand. Otherwise, you may discard 4 identical cards for +3VP.

I like the idea of trashing cards and gaining a Copper to hand in return. The top part is a Vault-ish effect, and the bottom rewards an engine, but being in the odd state cannot generate VP forever.

Seasonal Village $5*
Action-Seasonal
+1 Card
+2 Actions
---------------------
This costs $3 less if the Season token is face down, but not less than $0. When you gain or trash this, flip the pile token.

Varying costs with the Season token sounds like a good idea, but I can't find a good card to tack it on to. Good with TFB, bad otherwise, even though you still probably want them. (Making this a TFB itself sounds like a bad idea)
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"Strictly Better" compares only effects and not cost, change my mind

GendoIkari

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Re: Concept: Season token
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2018, 10:54:11 am »
0

I think it would be neater if there were a shared season token. In any game with only 1 season pile, it would work exactly the same. But it would add some neat interactions when you have multiple.

The simplest comparison is to the journey token from Adventures. That flips each time you play the card, rather than each time the card is gained.
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Cave-o-sapien

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Re: Concept: Season token
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2018, 05:18:51 pm »
+1

Another option is to have 2 different versions of each card, with a little season symbol on them. Then you make a "split" pile of the two types interleaved.
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dominator 123

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Re: Concept: Season token
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2018, 09:42:30 am »
0

I think it would be neater if there were a shared season token. In any game with only 1 season pile, it would work exactly the same. But it would add some neat interactions when you have multiple.

The simplest comparison is to the journey token from Adventures. That flips each time you play the card, rather than each time the card is gained.
I guess this is possible? The issue I have with this is that the cards are balanced differently, and you are supposed to be able to have a face up Season card and face down Season cards at the same time, and flipping the token for one card also flips the other. Like how I intentionally made it always easy to flip Card A but not Card B when they are on their good side for balance purposes.

Then again, this will not matter all that much because the chance that we see both in a kingdom is close to zero.
Another option is to have 2 different versions of each card, with a little season symbol on them. Then you make a "split" pile of the two types interleaved.
This misses the point of the token completely. It depends on how many cards are left when you play it, not when you buy it. For example look at Card A. The card becomes completely different if you put the sub-Warehouses in the odd positions and the Labs in the even positions.

Any feedback on the card themselves?
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Gazbag

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Re: Concept: Season token
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2018, 12:48:35 pm »
+1

I originally read Cave-o-sapien's reminder symbol thing as being a symbol on the card that tells you what the season is, so the top card has a "face up" symbol and then they alternate and it's a way of tracking it without need for a token. I guess the problem with that is that if the pile empties there's nothing to track the season and doesn't work for the when-trash trigger. I suppose Ambassador could also get the pile in a weird order, but that seems funny.

Anyway about the cards themselves:

Card A: Love the name! If you want a real name though I suggest "Wine Cellar". I think this seems pretty strong as a $2, like I think I prefer the +2 cards discard 2 cards to Cellar anyway and this is a Lab sometimes too so maybe it should cost $3?

Card B: This is bit of a stranger one. At first glance I didn't see how the 2 abilities were connected but now I see the trashing part makes the bottom part easier because you have a bunch of Coppers. Trashing and gaining Coppers is kinda neat, it's no secret that I love Copper gaining things, but it's only really useful when trashing Estates and Curses. I don't know, this seems pretty weak I'm not sure it's a good fit for the seasons mechanic? Like I think there's some decent ideas here I just don't love how they mesh in this one?

Seasonal Village: I think I'd stick to having changing effects, this just seems odd to me. $5 for a village is very pricey and $2 isn't much of a discount. Border Village, Port and of course Fortress all are doing a Village with tfb potential already.
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Cave-o-sapien

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Re: Concept: Season token
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2018, 01:27:10 pm »
+2

I originally read Cave-o-sapien's reminder symbol thing as being a symbol on the card that tells you what the season is, so the top card has a "face up" symbol and then they alternate and it's a way of tracking it without need for a token. I guess the problem with that is that if the pile empties there's nothing to track the season and doesn't work for the when-trash trigger. I suppose Ambassador could also get the pile in a weird order, but that seems funny.

Yes, that's what I meant. Just trying to avoid extra components. I think the first issue isn't a problem if the cards are worded correctly: "If the pile shows the Summer symbol, do X". Once the pile is empty, that is never true, so it becomes the "Winter" version of the card permanently, which I think is consistent with the intended design.

1) I dislike the cost one. It just feels like the card would be cheap for one player and expensive for the other.

2) I think in general, the design of "better version/worse version" (e.g. Card A) is less interesting than the design of Card B, where it does very different things depending on the season. Having said that, I would make those things much more basic, like a card that's a Village in the Summer, but a Woodcutter in the Winter.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Concept: Season token
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2018, 01:47:20 pm »
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I prefer to the token over the alternating cards. One reason is that setting up the cards to be every other one sounds like an annoyance during setup. Not more so than ordering the Castles pile, but still. The other is that you have 2 cards that look different but are 100% identical in every way. It just feels like a more artificial way to count how many have been bought. The token seems very simple and clean; and has precedence in the Journey token. And I don't see how an extra component is a consideration at all in a fan set.
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