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Author Topic: Enchantress on a Ghosted Enchantress  (Read 739 times)

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William Howard Taft

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Enchantress on a Ghosted Enchantress
« on: February 06, 2018, 11:52:36 pm »
+1

My game group is about to murder each other so can anyone clarify for me, what happens when Ghost plays an Enchantress and your opponent has an Enchantress in play?

a: +1 Card +1 Action, Enchantress attack, then +4 cards on my next turn?
b: +1 Card +1 Action, Enchantress attack, then +2 cards on my next turn?
c: Something else?

Thanks!
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Donald X.

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Re: Enchantress on a Ghosted Enchantress
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2018, 12:04:45 am »
+8

My game group is about to murder each other so can anyone clarify for me, what happens when Ghost plays an Enchantress and your opponent has an Enchantress in play?

a: +1 Card +1 Action, Enchantress attack, then +4 cards on my next turn?
b: +1 Card +1 Action, Enchantress attack, then +2 cards on my next turn?
c: Something else?
The first time it's played, you get +1 Card +1 Action and nothing else (there's no dividing line). The second time, you get the attack and set yourself up for +2 Cards next turn. So B. And Ghost still stays out until Enchantress is discarded from play.
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enfynet

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Re: Enchantress on a Ghosted Enchantress
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2018, 12:09:27 am »
+2

Ghost:
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal an Action. Discard the other cards and set aside the Action. At the start of your next turn, play it twice.

Enchantress:
Until your next turn, the first time each other player plays an Action card on their turn, they get +1 Card and +1 Action instead of following its instructions.
At the start of your next turn,
+2 Cards
----

So your Ghost is holding your Enchantress, and your opponent plays Enchantress.

Now, because they have Enchantress in play:

Play 1. +1 Card, +1 Action

Play 2. Until your next turn, the first time each other player plays an Action card on their turn, they get +1 Card and +1 Action instead of following its instructions.
At the start of your next turn,
+2 Cards
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William Howard Taft

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Re: Enchantress on a Ghosted Enchantress
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2018, 12:58:42 am »
0

The first time it's played, you get +1 Card +1 Action and nothing else (there's no dividing line). The second time, you get the attack and set yourself up for +2 Cards next turn. So B. And Ghost still stays out until Enchantress is discarded from play.

That's what I thought. Thanks for clarifying!
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GendoIkari

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Re: Enchantress on a Ghosted Enchantress
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2018, 08:23:02 am »
+2

William Howard Taft is asking questions about ghosts....
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William Howard Taft

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Re: Enchantress on a Ghosted Enchantress
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2018, 05:58:56 pm »
+1

The first time it's played, you get +1 Card +1 Action and nothing else (there's no dividing line).

Since you answered, any chance can you provide a brief explanation as to why Enchantress doesn't affect anything below the dividing line? I know that's what it says in the instructions, but the person in my game group always demands to know why something is the way it is and when we say "that's just how it is in the rules" she still wants to understand why.
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dz

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Re: Enchantress on a Ghosted Enchantress
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2018, 06:08:38 pm »
0

Cause the enchanted card still remains in play. Enchantress only changes a cards on play effect to a cantrip, the "while in play" doesn't happen when the card is played.
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Donald X.

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Re: Enchantress on a Ghosted Enchantress
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2018, 06:18:19 pm »
+1

Since you answered, any chance can you provide a brief explanation as to why Enchantress doesn't affect anything below the dividing line? I know that's what it says in the instructions, but the person in my game group always demands to know why something is the way it is and when we say "that's just how it is in the rules" she still wants to understand why.
The part below the line isn't the "instructions" referred to by Enchantress. There's no more in-depth answer.
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William Howard Taft

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Re: Enchantress on a Ghosted Enchantress
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2018, 07:27:47 pm »
0

The part below the line isn't the "instructions" referred to by Enchantress. There's no more in-depth answer.

I meant more why the part below the line doesn't count as instructions. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy that I get VP for Groundskeeper despite the attack, but I don't exactly understand why. I'm guessing it's the same reason that Throne Rooms don't affect anything below the line?
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Donald X.

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Re: Enchantress on a Ghosted Enchantress
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2018, 07:37:07 pm »
+1

The part below the line isn't the "instructions" referred to by Enchantress. There's no more in-depth answer.

I meant more why the part below the line doesn't count as instructions. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy that I get VP for Groundskeeper despite the attack, but I don't exactly understand why. I'm guessing it's the same reason that Throne Rooms don't affect anything below the line?
There's simply no bigger explanation. When you play a card you do the part above the line. That's what Enchantress refers to. How does it communicate this? With its card text and FAQ.
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ConMan

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Re: Enchantress on a Ghosted Enchantress
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2018, 09:52:33 pm »
+1

The part below the line isn't the "instructions" referred to by Enchantress. There's no more in-depth answer.

I meant more why the part below the line doesn't count as instructions. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy that I get VP for Groundskeeper despite the attack, but I don't exactly understand why. I'm guessing it's the same reason that Throne Rooms don't affect anything below the line?
The above-the-line part is the part that happens when you play the card, and that's what Enchantress affects. Below-the-line stuff is just stuff that happens because the card is in play - if there was an effect that moved cards into play without playing them, then the stuff below the line would still happen, and it's been decided that those effects aren't affected by Enchantress (partially, I suspect, because it's harder to track).
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GendoIkari

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Re: Enchantress on a Ghosted Enchantress
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2018, 01:00:32 am »
+1

The part below the line isn't the "instructions" referred to by Enchantress. There's no more in-depth answer.

I meant more why the part below the line doesn't count as instructions. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy that I get VP for Groundskeeper despite the attack, but I don't exactly understand why. I'm guessing it's the same reason that Throne Rooms don't affect anything below the line?

A helpful thing is that Enchantress says "...the first time each other player plays an Action card on their turn..." Key word being "plays". This means that Enchantress affects what happens when you play the card. Stuff above the line is what happens when you play the card. Stuff below the line has nothing to do with playing the card; so they aren't instructions you would follow at that time. That's a natural result of "do A instead of B". "B" only means the things that you would be doing right then.
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chipperMDW

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Re: Enchantress on a Ghosted Enchantress
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2018, 01:02:24 am »
+1

The part below the line isn't the "instructions" referred to by Enchantress. There's no more in-depth answer.

I meant more why the part below the line doesn't count as instructions. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy that I get VP for Groundskeeper despite the attack, but I don't exactly understand why. I'm guessing it's the same reason that Throne Rooms don't affect anything below the line?

It's not that the text below the line doesn't count as instructions. It's that the text below the line represents instructions to be followed at a time other than playing the card. The rulebook for the 2nd edition of the base set clearly says this.

Enchantress talks about doing something else instead of following a card's instructions when the card is played. It says absolutely nothing about following (or not following) instructions on the card in any other situation, so Enchantress doesn't affect the functionality of the other instructions whatsoever.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2018, 01:11:51 am by chipperMDW »
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Jeebus

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Re: Enchantress on a Ghosted Enchantress
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2018, 12:43:34 pm »
0

You mentioned Throne Room, and you're right. So compare with Throne Rooming a card. When you play Throne Room + Groundskeeper, you only do the play instructions twice, not what's below the line. It's the same with Enchantress. Both Throne Room and Enchantress refers to playing a card.

Also, compare with Watchtower, which also has instructions below the line. These instructions obviously don't happen when you play Throne Room + Watchtower. Similarly, these instructions are not affected by a played Enchantress when you reveal Watchtower. Just another example of how below-the-line instructions have nothing to do with playing the card.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2018, 12:45:23 pm by Jeebus »
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