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Author Topic: Turbo-Treasure-Map Combo: Plan+Engineer  (Read 706 times)

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Graystripe77

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Turbo-Treasure-Map Combo: Plan+Engineer
« on: January 30, 2018, 01:48:36 am »
+1

Open Plan, naming Engineer.
Buy Engineers, trashing coppers and estates.
Trash Engineers when you play them for 2x Treasure Maps.

This combo is super smooth because you can put 6x Treasure Maps in your deck by the third shuffle, and Engineer allows you to have really smooth early buys, While Plan simply enables incredible consistency to land the Treasure Maps together.
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ednever

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Re: Turbo-Treasure-Map Combo: Plan+Engineer
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2018, 02:54:47 pm »
0

I can't think of many cases where I would want 6 activated treasure maps...

But it might be a nice start to get Two TMs that give you trash+economy and then let you transition into something else...
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Chris is me

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Re: Turbo-Treasure-Map Combo: Plan+Engineer
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2018, 03:13:02 pm »
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The main problem with a TM rush is that the Treasure Maps actively antisynergize - each time you activate a pair you make the next pair much harder to connect. You could do this sort of thing with two or three or four TMís for an okay BM strategy on a board with just nothing else going on, but youíll have trouble on a lot of real boards with better Plan targets.
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Awaclus

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Re: Turbo-Treasure-Map Combo: Plan+Engineer
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2018, 03:28:48 pm »
0

The main problem with TM is that there are better things to do with your turn than playing a bunch of Golds.
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Graystripe77

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Re: Turbo-Treasure-Map Combo: Plan+Engineer
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2018, 05:38:40 pm »
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The main problem with a TM rush is that the Treasure Maps actively antisynergize - each time you activate a pair you make the next pair much harder to connect. You could do this sort of thing with two or three or four TMís for an okay BM strategy on a board with just nothing else going on, but youíll have trouble on a lot of real boards with better Plan targets.

Realistically, you only care about connect once or twice, then you can trash the rest as you draw them. The point is that it makes getting the first activation extremely fast, and gives good odds on a second activation as well. 8 Golds straight into buying Provinces can end the game very fast, especially when Plan has thinned the Coppers and Estates from your deck.
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Re: Turbo-Treasure-Map Combo: Plan+Engineer
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2018, 07:19:52 pm »
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The main problem with a TM rush is that the Treasure Maps actively antisynergize - each time you activate a pair you make the next pair much harder to connect. You could do this sort of thing with two or three or four TMís for an okay BM strategy on a board with just nothing else going on, but youíll have trouble on a lot of real boards with better Plan targets.

Realistically, you only care about connect once or twice, then you can trash the rest as you draw them. The point is that it makes getting the first activation extremely fast, and gives good odds on a second activation as well. 8 Golds straight into buying Provinces can end the game very fast, especially when Plan has thinned the Coppers and Estates from your deck.

Whatís a best case?
T1 Plan
T2 Treasure Map (remember, only 5/12 odds you can even do this)
(Shuffle)
T3 TM
T4 TM
(Shuffle)
T5 Collide, Buy Silver I guess
T6 Province???
(Shuffle)

You now have a 13 card deck with 4 Golds, 1 TM, 1 Province, 7 Copper. Basically if you miss Province you, Buy one more treasure map and hope for a T9 or T10 collision? Letís say you get one more Province one more Tmap, and T9 you get the collision, which is super low odds. Then you can potentially get Province 5 at T12-13.

Thatís... comparable to the average case for Gear BM, for the absolute best case here. Leaves a bit to be desired?
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crj

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Re: Turbo-Treasure-Map Combo: Plan+Engineer
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2018, 07:23:10 pm »
+1

But... Plan doesn't thin your deck. The only way to trash a card is to buy a card.

I can see the usefulness of getting an early Treasure Map collision. But if the best way to trash a starting Copper is to buy an Engineer, shuffle, play the Engineer for two Treasure Maps, shuffle, then play those two Treasure Maps for no benefit, I think it's time to consider the possibility that it's better to put up with the copper in your deck. Especially as the Treasure Maps will run out half-way through trashing your starting deck.

Come to think of it, surely it would be better to skip the Engineer step and put Plan directly on Treasure Map?
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Re: Turbo-Treasure-Map Combo: Plan+Engineer
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2018, 08:37:55 pm »
0

The main problem with a TM rush is that the Treasure Maps actively antisynergize - each time you activate a pair you make the next pair much harder to connect. You could do this sort of thing with two or three or four TMís for an okay BM strategy on a board with just nothing else going on, but youíll have trouble on a lot of real boards with better Plan targets.

Realistically, you only care about connect once or twice, then you can trash the rest as you draw them. The point is that it makes getting the first activation extremely fast, and gives good odds on a second activation as well. 8 Golds straight into buying Provinces can end the game very fast, especially when Plan has thinned the Coppers and Estates from your deck.

Whatís a best case?
T1 Plan
T2 Treasure Map (remember, only 5/12 odds you can even do this)
(Shuffle)
T3 TM
T4 TM
(Shuffle)
T5 Collide, Buy Silver I guess
T6 Province???
(Shuffle)

You now have a 13 card deck with 4 Golds, 1 TM, 1 Province, 7 Copper. Basically if you miss Province you, Buy one more treasure map and hope for a T9 or T10 collision? Letís say you get one more Province one more Tmap, and T9 you get the collision, which is super low odds. Then you can potentially get Province 5 at T12-13.

Thatís... comparable to the average case for Gear BM, for the absolute best case here. Leaves a bit to be desired?

You don't buy Treasure Map... the whole point of the combo is using Engineer.
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Re: Turbo-Treasure-Map Combo: Plan+Engineer
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2018, 09:42:59 pm »
0

The main problem with a TM rush is that the Treasure Maps actively antisynergize - each time you activate a pair you make the next pair much harder to connect. You could do this sort of thing with two or three or four TMís for an okay BM strategy on a board with just nothing else going on, but youíll have trouble on a lot of real boards with better Plan targets.

Realistically, you only care about connect once or twice, then you can trash the rest as you draw them. The point is that it makes getting the first activation extremely fast, and gives good odds on a second activation as well. 8 Golds straight into buying Provinces can end the game very fast, especially when Plan has thinned the Coppers and Estates from your deck.

Whatís a best case?
T1 Plan
T2 Treasure Map (remember, only 5/12 odds you can even do this)
(Shuffle)
T3 TM
T4 TM
(Shuffle)
T5 Collide, Buy Silver I guess
T6 Province???
(Shuffle)

You now have a 13 card deck with 4 Golds, 1 TM, 1 Province, 7 Copper. Basically if you miss Province you, Buy one more treasure map and hope for a T9 or T10 collision? Letís say you get one more Province one more Tmap, and T9 you get the collision, which is super low odds. Then you can potentially get Province 5 at T12-13.

Thatís... comparable to the average case for Gear BM, for the absolute best case here. Leaves a bit to be desired?

You don't buy Treasure Map... the whole point of the combo is using Engineer.

Sorry - I swear I knew that when I first posted, but when I came back to the thread to write the second response I must have forgotten. Long day.
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