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Author Topic: Holunder's cards  (Read 9974 times)

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Holunder9

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Re: Holunder's cards
« Reply #200 on: November 20, 2018, 02:57:49 pm »
+1



This is nothing original but a variation of Gazbag's Artefact. Instead of topdecking green it freezes itself though, so the card is mainly good for buildup. No idea about the best numbers, I wouldn't want to make it cheaper due to quick piling via Workshop variants so if this is too weak/strong the length of freezing are the variables that can be changed.

EDIT: Finally found a decent, albeit wordy, formulation that prevents stacking.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2018, 03:22:36 pm by Holunder9 »
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Fly-Eagles-Fly

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Re: Holunder's cards
« Reply #201 on: November 20, 2018, 03:04:13 pm »
+1



This is nothing original but a variation of Gazbag's Artefact. Instead of topdecking green it freezes itself though, so the card is mainly good for buildup. No idea about the best numbers, I wouldn't want to make it cheaper due to quick piling via Workshop variants so if this is too weak/strong the length of freezing are the variables that can be changed.
Do these stack? I like the card, but it seems like it might not be that great if you need to freeze a card 9 times for having 3 of these in play. Also, not sure it needs the phrase in parentheses.
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Holunder9

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Re: Holunder's cards
« Reply #202 on: November 20, 2018, 03:23:44 pm »
0

Do these stack? I like the card, but it seems like it might not be that great if you need to freeze a card 9 times for having 3 of these in play. Also, not sure it needs the phrase in parentheses.
Good catch, they should not stack so I have to reword it. The reference that this should freeez itself is technically unnecessary but I am not a native speaker and neither are the folks I play with so better to be on the safe side such that everybody understands it.

EDIT: Found a decent wording that prevents stacking.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2018, 09:18:34 am by Holunder9 »
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Holunder9

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Re: Holunder's cards
« Reply #203 on: November 24, 2018, 09:38:37 am »
0



The vanilla stuff is from Tokenmonger aka Wizard. The attack is fairly mild and when you are hit the second time it is actually beneficial as you get a Fugitive effect, kind of like with Margrave. The entire thing could be too similar to Villain (discard one card, if the guy to your left always discards Copper/Silver you get 2 Coffers).

I first tried to do a discard Attack with Mutineers, the great Militia token concept by Violet CLM, but I didn't come up with something.
Here is the basic idea that is flawed for an obvious reason: nobody wants to ever discard Victory cards to spend Mutineers while somebody else has a Corsair Ship in play. Marketeers (Buy Tokens) are an alternative token that could be coupled to Victory cards but as they are weaker than the other 3 tokens this would lead to the opposite problem: everybody always discards green to spend Mutineers.

Quote
$5
Action - Duration - Attack

Each other player gets +1 Mutineer.

Until your next turn, when another player spend a Mutineer, if the discarded card is an...
Action card, +1 Villager
Treasure card, +1 Coffers 
Victory card, +1

At the start of your next turn: +2 Cards.
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Holunder9

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Re: Holunder's cards
« Reply #204 on: December 06, 2018, 06:03:10 pm »
+4



Here are some quick ideas for an alternative set of Shelters. I guess you could also mix them with the original Shelters and randomly choose one from each of the three sub-categories.

Lodge is a small house so only one dude villager is living there! While the card is superficially similar to Necropolis it will play differently. For example in games without villages it degenerates into a Ruined Village whereas Necropolis can be used as non-drawing village (this being the only situation in which you want to keep Necro). So I guess you will only use Lodge 1-3 times and then try to get rid of it.
Not much to say about Acolyte's Abode, it is my least favourite of the 3. Like Lodge it is also not something you really want to keep around but it can change the opening if somebody opens with 2-5/5-2. This is why it is perhaps too luck-dependent.
Swamp Cabin is remotely inspired by Pasture (a singular non-Supply card changing the worth of basic green). First it had 3VPs per set but got buffed to 4VPs to make it a real alt-VP kick-off card more often.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2018, 06:09:01 pm by Holunder9 »
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Holunder's cards
« Reply #205 on: December 06, 2018, 07:05:08 pm »
+2

I like the idea, but Lodge is the only of these that works well as a shelter IMO. You already said what's wrong with Acolyte's Abode, and Swamp Cabin seems pretty strong for a shelter. I guess it could be an interesting decision whether to keep it or not, but I think it potentially makes too much difference for a shelter.

Holunder9

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Re: Holunder's cards
« Reply #206 on: December 07, 2018, 02:19:32 am »
+2

I like the idea, but Lodge is the only of these that works well as a shelter IMO. You already said what's wrong with Acolyte's Abode, and Swamp Cabin seems pretty strong for a shelter. I guess it could be an interesting decision whether to keep it or not, but I think it potentially makes too much difference for a shelter.
Good point, somebody with 4/3 being able to leech off somebody elses's 5/2 isn't a good idea.
Here is an alternative for the Reaction-Shelter which is also more similar to Hovel's self-trashing:



I don't agree though that Swamp Cabin is problematic. Sure, it has nothing to do with the trash theme of Dark Ages but it is hard to come up with some novel on-trash bonus. Like Pasture, Swamp Cabin is something that would be dubious as Kingdom card so why not stick the idea on a starting card? I don't see its craziness given that Pasture is an automatic Duchy, often leads to 8VPs when you won the split (or even more in non-mirrors) and has a Kingdom card that supports the alt-VP strategy.
I also think that you will stick with Pasture more often than with Swamp Cabin.

On a sidenote, I think that in a world in which Pasture did not exist, a Shelter which would be worth 1VP per Estate you have would be good idea. Totally narrow but perhaps a thing in a Gardens or Silk Road Kingdom.

I don't like Heirlooms like Goat which speed up the game too much so I don't want to do anything crazy with Shelters but being an alt-VP enabler isn't something that messes with the opening. Here the seemingly innocent Lodge is the far worse offender as it makes terminal draw a pretty good opening buy due to zero chance of collision after the first shuffle (this is not the case with Necropolis).
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Asper

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Re: Holunder's cards
« Reply #207 on: December 07, 2018, 08:17:55 am »
0

Acolyte's Abode could just gain a cheaper card or a Silver. This way it doesn't affect the opening itself.

Holunder9

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Re: Holunder's cards
« Reply #208 on: December 07, 2018, 03:57:41 pm »
0

In my opinion a Silver-gaining Shelter would be too similar to Lucky Coin and also arguably too good.

One idea to nerf Acolyte's Abode is topdecking instead of discarding it. If you are extremely lucky you could thus use it twice in a 3P game but it is more likely that you just topdecked a dead card.

Another idea is to use Buy tokens aka Marketeers which are worth far less in the opening than Coffers:



As there is only one copy of this card in your deck there is no accountability problems, except during Masquerade games.
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Holunder's cards
« Reply #209 on: December 07, 2018, 06:55:33 pm »
0

Very minor nitpick: green should be on top of red on a Victory-Shelter.
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Holunder9

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Re: Holunder's cards
« Reply #210 on: December 08, 2018, 07:12:19 am »
0

Hovel and Overgrown Estate seem to have switched the arrangement of the colours between 1st and 2nd edition.
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Asper

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Re: Holunder's cards
« Reply #211 on: December 10, 2018, 06:50:07 pm »
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Hovel and Overgrown Estate seem to have switched the arrangement of the colours between 1st and 2nd edition.

Wow, that's really odd. The wiki confirms this.

Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Holunder's cards
« Reply #212 on: December 10, 2018, 09:33:51 pm »
0

From what I can tell from looking at the other dual-types, the top color is always the first type listed. First edition Hovel and Overgrown Estate didn't follow this pattern though, which I guess is why they were changed.
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