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[ThetaSigma12]

Some cards cost 7$ or more, because at 5$, they would be too swingy if one player opens 5$ and the other doesn‘t. This risk can be solved by debt. Example given, Forge could be priced 7 debt. Similarly, Prince would be more interesting as a debt card.

My fear is that Forge would be an autobuy, at least in kingdoms sans Chapel. This would render the second turn uninteresting. The elegance about Royal Blacksmith and City Quarter is that you could open with them, it is just very ineffectual. Whereas Forge is exactly what you need at the start of the game.

OTOH we have Overlord, which is often a very good opener.

[crj]

What I intended was just making Island an Action-Victory-Reserve that put itself on your tavern mat with another card underneath. I hadn't intended that the other card then be in Reserve, though actually that would be more amusing than significant: doesn't every Reserve card already have an easier way to get it onto the Tavern mat than playing ReserveIsland?

[crj]

Example given, Forge could be priced 7 debt.

My fear is that Forge would be an autobuy, at least in kingdoms sans Chapel. This would render the second turn uninteresting.

Hasn't Donate demonstrated that good trashing with a high Debt cost is far from uninteresting? Indeed, the bigger risk might be that a Debt-cost Forge would be seen as an inferior Donate rather than a fiddly mid-to-late-game trash for benefit.

[ipofanes]

Example given, Forge could be priced 7 debt.

My fear is that Forge would be an autobuy, at least in kingdoms sans Chapel. This would render the second turn uninteresting.

Hasn't Donate demonstrated that good trashing with a high Debt cost is far from uninteresting? Indeed, the bigger risk might be that a Debt-cost Forge would be seen as an inferior Donate rather than a fiddly mid-to-late-game trash for benefit.

But Donate is also an autobuy, just not an instabuy. The interesting part is its timing. While trashers like Chapel and Forge (should it be available at early game) take some turns to complete their trashing, allowing some alternate economy to build. Other than the one shot Donate, Forge would still be a late trash-for-benefit in the late game (and, admittedly, be a dead card for some turns in the mid-game). I may still buy Chapel over Debt-Forge, but then I buy Chapel over current Forge too.

[Awaclus]

But Donate is also an autobuy, just not an instabuy. The interesting part is its timing. While trashers like Chapel and Forge (should it be available at early game) take some turns to complete their trashing, allowing some alternate economy to build. Other than the one shot Donate, Forge would still be a late trash-for-benefit in the late game (and, admittedly, be a dead card for some turns in the mid-game). I may still buy Chapel over Debt-Forge, but then I buy Chapel over current Forge too.

Buying Donate on turn 1 to trash three Estates and two Coppers is damn near an automatic decision in every game.

[weesh]

Buying Donate on turn 1 to trash three Estates and two Coppers is damn near an automatic decision in every game.

even on a 2/5 opening?

[Awaclus]

Buying Donate on turn 1 to trash three Estates and two Coppers is damn near an automatic decision in every game.

even on a 2/5 opening?

That depends on the situation, but assuming there's a powerful $5 on the board, it's probably better to donate t3. Either way, you're at a severe disadvantage though.