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Author Topic: Posting losses in an attempt to get better.  (Read 2385 times)

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Chris is me

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Re: Posting losses in an attempt to get better.
« Reply #25 on: January 31, 2018, 03:30:51 pm »
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-

As an aside, in the future PLEASE post the kingdom from each log you copy here. No way to quickly check what’s on the board without loading the game...

Thanks for the explanation.

I have posted each board using the kingdom tags from the fds Chrome extension. Are you not seeing the board? Is anyone else not seeing it? If there is a problem I will also list the cards in future.

This one might be on my end, I think my phone and the slow service it has is joking on trying to load several kingdom’s worth of images. My bad!
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Cave-o-sapien

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Re: Posting losses in an attempt to get better.
« Reply #26 on: January 31, 2018, 05:22:03 pm »
+1

In the game log below, you called your Ratcatcher 4 times on turns 4, 9, 13 and 16, trashing 3 estates and your Moneylender; you played Moneylender 4 times, on turns 3, 6, 9, 12.

I don't think it's crazy to think that Bard/Monastery would outperform that combination, both in terms of trashing and economy.
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terminalCopper

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Re: Posting losses in an attempt to get better.
« Reply #27 on: February 01, 2018, 06:13:09 am »
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This is probably the fifth time I look at this board, and finally, I feel like having an idea what to do :)

I'd open Ratcatcher/Bards, planning something like
2 Ratcatcher, 6 Bards + Lost Arts, 2 Libraries, Duplicate, gaining some treasures by Bards.

If I use Duplicate twice, this will be achieved until T10. My ratcatchers are slow, but being two, they should have trashed approx. 3 estates and 2 coppers, leaving me with a deck similar to

6 nonterminal Bards
2 Libraries
7 treasures.

In average, I hold 6/15 * 5 = two Bards per starting hand, and 2/15*5 = 0,66 Libraries.

This is a good starting point to achieve $11, some examples:
play one Bard, library draws 8$, bard gives +1$
play two Bards,  library draws 7$
play three Bards, have 3$ in hand, +extra card and extra coin

Something like this should work more often than not; buying 4 colonies by T16 seems possible to me.

Btw, I'd like to adress two interesting subthemes:

Monastery>Ratcatcher?

In most cases, yes. Definitely, I have Monastery on #3, it's bonkers! Compared to Ratcatcher,

a) it misses less shuffles,
b) it can trash multiple cards,
c) it's never drawn dead,
d) when trashing copper, copper still provides +1$.

Usually, this outperforms ratcatcher - but not in the situation I described. I don't really care about trashing faster (a) and b)), because my library wants to draw up to 7 treasures, and I don't want to spend time on replacing coppers by other treasures. c) doesn''t matter because libraries don't draw actions dead.

Compared to this, ratcatcher has three advantages,

a) It draws a card, which is important to get 4$/5$/6$
b) it trashes before library draws, which will draw one more card
c) it gets out of the way when it comes to greening.

Therefore, in this specific situation, I prefer Ratcatchers to Monastery.

Pirate Ship? Really? Maybe ...

I gave +1 to fausts posting because it is really a fascinating idea. If everything works well, Pirate Ship is really an option here.

However, it doesn't really scare me, because it's clumsy to achieve all three goals in a reasonable amount of time: trashing, gaining multiple Pirate Ships and spiking 6$ for lost arts. My gut tells me this will be slow, and in case that my Bard-Deck is threatened by this, the detour to replace lib's by some Poachers is not desirable, but possible.

But, to be fair, I'm not sure here. Maybe, really, this might be one of the rare decks where Pirate Ship is king, thanks to Lost Arts and Colonies.
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xyz123

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Re: Posting losses in an attempt to get better.
« Reply #28 on: February 02, 2018, 02:08:30 pm »
0

Had another little run of wins and my rating seems to be heading in the right direction. But then all good things come to an end.




Provinces/Shelters game. Starts with Goat because of Pixie.

Code: [Select]
Game #11269850, rated.
SG252: 43.26
copyleft: 46.97

S starts with 6 Coppers, a Hovel, a Necropolis, an Overgrown Estate and a Goat.
c starts with 6 Coppers, a Hovel, a Necropolis, an Overgrown Estate and a Goat.
S shuffles their deck.
S draws 2 Coppers, a Necropolis, an Overgrown Estate and a Goat.
c shuffles their deck.
c draws 5 cards.

Turn 1 - SG252
S plays a Necropolis.
S plays 2 Coppers and a Goat.
S trashes an Overgrown Estate.
S draws a Copper.
S plays a Copper.
S buys and gains a Lookout.
S shuffles their deck.
S draws 4 Coppers and a Hovel.

Turn 1 - copyleft
c plays 4 Coppers.
c buys and gains a Hermit.
c draws 5 cards.

Turn 2 - SG252
S plays 4 Coppers.
S buys and gains a Hermit.
S draws 2 Coppers, a Lookout, a Necropolis and a Goat.

Turn 2 - copyleft
c plays a Goat.
c trashes a Hovel.
c plays 2 Coppers.
c buys and gains a Silver.
c shuffles their deck.
c draws 5 cards.

Turn 3 - SG252
S plays a Lookout.
S shuffles their deck.
S looks at 3 Coppers.
S trashes a Copper.
S discards a Copper.
S topdecks a Copper.
S plays 2 Coppers and a Goat.
S trashes a Necropolis.
S buys and gains a Silver.
S shuffles their deck.
S draws 2 Coppers, a Silver, a Hermit and a Hovel.

Turn 3 - copyleft
c plays a Goat.
c trashes a Necropolis.
c plays 2 Coppers and a Silver.
c buys and gains a Butcher.
c draws 5 cards.

Turn 4 - SG252
S plays a Hermit.
S trashes a Hovel.
S gains a Hermit.
S plays 2 Coppers and a Silver.
S buys and gains a Feodum.
S draws 3 Coppers, a Lookout and a Goat.

Turn 4 - copyleft
c plays a Hermit.
c looks at 5 cards.
c gains a Silver.
c plays 4 Coppers.
c buys and gains a Silver.
c shuffles their deck.
c draws 5 cards.

Turn 5 - SG252
S plays a Lookout.
S shuffles their deck.
S looks at a Copper, a Silver and a Hermit.
S trashes a Copper.
S discards a Silver.
S topdecks a Hermit.
S plays a Goat.
S trashes a Copper.
S plays 2 Coppers.
S buys and gains a Silver.
S shuffles their deck.
S draws 2 Coppers, a Feodum and 2 Hermits.

Turn 5 - copyleft
c plays a Goat.
c trashes an Overgrown Estate.
c draws a card.
c plays 2 Coppers and 2 Silvers.
c buys and gains a Gold.
c draws 5 cards.

Turn 6 - SG252
S plays a Hermit.
S trashes a Feodum.
S gains 3 Silvers.
S gains a Silver.
S plays 2 Coppers.
S buys and gains a Pixie.
S draws a Copper, 2 Silvers, a Lookout and a Goat.

Turn 6 - copyleft
c plays a Butcher.
c plays 3 Coppers and a Silver.
c buys and gains a Gold.
c shuffles their deck.
c draws 5 cards.

Turn 7 - SG252
S plays a Lookout.
S shuffles their deck.
S looks at 2 Coppers and a Silver.
S trashes a Copper.
S discards a Copper.
S topdecks a Silver.
S plays a Goat.
S trashes a Copper.
S plays 2 Silvers.
S buys and gains a Bandit.
S draws 3 Silvers, a Hermit and a Pixie.

Turn 7 - copyleft
c plays a Hermit.
c gains a Silver.
c plays a Goat.
c trashes a Copper.
c plays 2 Silvers.
c buys and gains a Gold.
c draws 5 cards.

Turn 8 - SG252
S plays a Hermit.
S looks at a Bandit, a Lookout, a Copper, a Goat and 2 Silvers.
S gains a Silver.
S plays 3 Silvers.
S buys and gains a Butcher.
S shuffles their deck.
S draws 2 Silvers, 2 Hermits and a Pixie.

Turn 8 - copyleft
c plays 2 Coppers and 2 Golds.
c buys and gains a Province.
c shuffles their deck.
c draws 5 cards.

Turn 9 - SG252
S plays a Pixie.
S draws a Copper.
S takes The Forest's Gift.
S discards The Forest's Gift.
S plays a Hermit.
S gains a Pixie.
S plays a Copper and 2 Silvers.
S buys and gains a Feodum.
S draws 2 Silvers, a Lookout, a Butcher and a Goat.

Turn 9 - copyleft
c plays a Butcher.
c plays 2 Coppers and 2 Silvers.
c buys and gains a Hunting Grounds.
c draws 5 cards.

Turn 10 - SG252
S plays a Lookout.
S looks at 3 Silvers.
S trashes a Silver.
S discards a Silver.
S topdecks a Silver.
S plays a Butcher.
S plays 2 Silvers and a Goat.
S buys and gains a Gold.
S shuffles their deck.
S draws a Copper, a Silver, a Bandit, a Lookout and a Hermit.

Turn 10 - copyleft
c plays a Hermit.
c looks at 6 cards.
c gains a Silver.
c plays 3 Coppers and a Gold.
c buys and gains a Province.
c draws 5 cards.

Turn 11 - SG252
S plays a Bandit.
S gains a Gold.
c shuffles their deck.
c reveals a Silver and a Province.
c trashes a Silver.
c discards a Province.
S plays a Copper and a Silver.
S buys and gains a Feodum.
S draws a Silver, a Hermit, a Butcher and 2 Pixies.

Turn 11 - copyleft
c plays a Goat.
c trashes a Silver.
c plays a Silver and 2 Golds.
c buys and gains a Province.
c draws 5 cards.

Turn 12 - SG252
S plays a Pixie.
S draws a Feodum.
S takes The Earth's Gift.
S discards The Earth's Gift.
S plays a Pixie.
S draws a Gold.
S takes The Sun's Gift.
S discards The Sun's Gift.
S plays a Butcher.
S trashes a Gold.
S gains a Province.
S plays a Silver.
S buys a Pixie.
S takes 2 VP from Colonnade.
S gains a Pixie.
S draws 4 Silvers and a Goat.

Turn 12 - copyleft
c plays a Hunting Grounds.
c draws 4 cards.
c plays 3 Coppers and 2 Silvers.
c buys a Hunting Grounds.
c takes 2 VP from Colonnade.
c gains a Hunting Grounds.
c shuffles their deck.
c draws 5 cards.

Turn 13 - SG252
S plays 4 Silvers.
S buys and gains a Province.
S shuffles their deck.
S draws 2 Silvers, a Province, a Lookout and a Goat.

Turn 13 - copyleft
c plays 2 Coppers and 2 Golds.
c buys and gains a Province.
c draws 5 cards.

Turn 14 - SG252
S plays 2 Silvers and a Goat.
S trashes a Lookout.
S buys and gains a Duchy.
S draws a Copper, a Silver, a Bandit, a Feodum and a Pixie.

Turn 14 - copyleft
c plays a Hunting Grounds.
c draws 4 cards.
c plays a Copper, 2 Silvers and a Gold.
c buys and gains a Province.
c draws 5 cards.

Turn 15 - SG252
S plays a Pixie.
S draws a Feodum.
S takes The Moon's Gift.
S discards The Moon's Gift.
S plays a Bandit.
S gains a Gold.
c shuffles their deck.
c reveals a Copper and a Gold.
c trashes a Gold.
c discards a Copper.
S plays a Copper and a Silver.
S buys a Pixie.
S takes 2 VP from Colonnade.
S gains a Pixie.
S draws 2 Silvers, a Province, a Butcher and a Pixie.

Turn 15 - copyleft
c plays a Hunting Grounds.
c draws 4 cards.
c plays 3 Coppers.
c buys and gains a Silver.
c draws 5 cards.

Turn 16 - SG252
S plays a Pixie.
S draws a Silver.
S takes The Swamp's Gift.
S discards The Swamp's Gift.
S plays a Butcher.
S plays 3 Silvers.
S buys and gains a Duchy.
S shuffles their deck.
S draws a Gold, a Duchy, 2 Hermits and a Pixie.

Turn 16 - copyleft
c plays a Hunting Grounds.
c draws 4 cards.
c plays a Copper, 2 Silvers and 2 Golds.
c buys and gains a Province.
c shuffles their deck.
c draws 5 cards.

A terrible board for me as there are lots of cards I know I am not great at using. I am not sure what to do with Madman when it is the only village. I am not great at knowing when to trash Feodum for early Silvers, I know I am bad with Butcher. Usually when it comes up the right thing to do with it tends to be something I didn't think of.

There are several interactions here but I struggle to see how the come together for a coherent strategy:
Bandit gains gold the Butcher can turn into Provinces.
Butcher Hunting Grounds into Province.
The only guaranteed +buy is Contraband, but I don't think you want it here.
Cobbler looks interesting but there are not really any spammable cards it can gain.
If something clever with Butcher and the gainers can be done Mission potentially becomes useful.

It all depends though on making Madman work, which as I said earlier I am bad with. I also struggle with knowing when to skip buying to gain one unless I have a dud turn.

In this game I did try experimenting with Pixies but the right Boon never came up at the right time.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2018, 02:11:52 pm by xyz123 »
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Chappy7

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Re: Posting losses in an attempt to get better.
« Reply #29 on: February 02, 2018, 04:17:01 pm »
0

I'm no expert, and I find myself, like you, often wondering the best way to use madman. However, looking at this board, I'd be tempted to have fun trying to make Feodum decent, which quite possibly would make me lose.  My reasoning is that several cards here can act as weak to decent silver gainers.  Pixie, hermit, feodum, taxman, cobbler, and butcher could all possibly get you silvers. (Even on mission turns) Also, if I was doing this, I'd totally go for contraband.  If they name silver, I'll buy cobblers or butchers.  If they don't name silver, I'll use that extra buy to grab a couple of them and/or buy mission and try to grab a silver on my extra turn.
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aku_chi

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Re: Posting losses in an attempt to get better.
« Reply #30 on: February 02, 2018, 05:45:56 pm »
+2

I would play a moneyish strategy on that board.  Goat trashing + Butcher should make the game fast.  Madman seems too fancy.  I think I'd open Lookout + Silver, look to pick up a Bandit and a couple Butchers on $5+ hands.  I'd grab Pixies on <$5 hands.  Butcher Gold and Province into Province and win fast.  Simple!
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Cave-o-sapien

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Re: Posting losses in an attempt to get better.
« Reply #31 on: February 02, 2018, 07:15:25 pm »
0

I would play a moneyish strategy on that board.  Goat trashing + Butcher should make the game fast.  Madman seems too fancy.  I think I'd open Lookout + Silver, look to pick up a Bandit and a couple Butchers on $5+ hands.  I'd grab Pixies on <$5 hands.  Butcher Gold and Province into Province and win fast.  Simple!

I was also thinking Butcher + Bandit might be the way to go here. You might occasionally be able to have a good Mission turn with that approach.
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xyz123

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Re: Posting losses in an attempt to get better.
« Reply #32 on: February 05, 2018, 02:13:32 pm »
0

This does seem to be helping. I have managed a couple of wins against level 50+ players since I last posted here.

However...




Provinces/Estates Game.

Code: [Select]
Game #11368588, rated.
Yosarrian18: 51.48
SG252: 44.69

Y starts with 7 Coppers and 3 Estates.
S starts with 7 Coppers and 3 Estates.
Y shuffles their deck.
Y draws 5 cards.
S shuffles their deck.
S draws 5 Coppers.

Turn 1 - Yosarrian18
Y plays 3 Coppers.
Y buys and gains a Silver.
Y draws 5 cards.

Turn 1 - SG252
S plays 5 Coppers.
S buys and gains a Bridge Troll.
S draws 2 Coppers and 3 Estates.

Turn 2 - Yosarrian18
Y plays 4 Coppers.
Y buys and gains a Salvager.
Y shuffles their deck.
Y draws 5 cards.

Turn 2 - SG252
S plays 2 Coppers.
S buys and gains a Guardian.
S plays a Guardian.
S shuffles their deck.
S draws 2 Coppers and 3 Estates.

Turn 3 - Yosarrian18
Y plays 3 Coppers and a Silver.
Y buys and gains a Highway.
Y draws 5 cards.

Turn 3 - SG252
S starts their turn.
S gets +1 Coin (Guardian).
S plays 2 Coppers.
S buys and gains a Chariot Race.
S draws 4 Coppers and a Bridge Troll.

Turn 4 - Yosarrian18
Y plays a Salvager.
Y trashes an Estate.
Y plays 3 Coppers.
Y buys and gains a Highway.
Y shuffles their deck.
Y draws 5 cards.

Turn 4 - SG252
S plays a Bridge Troll.
S plays 4 Coppers.
S buys and gains a Salvager and a Guardian.
S plays a Guardian.
S shuffles their deck.
S draws 3 Coppers and 2 Estates.

Turn 5 - Yosarrian18
Y plays a Copper.
Y returns -Coin token set by Bridge Troll.
Y plays a Copper and a Silver.
Y buys and gains a Chariot Race.
Y draws 5 cards.

Turn 5 - SG252
S starts their turn.
S gets +1 Buy (Bridge Troll).
S gets +1 Coin (Guardian).
S plays 3 Coppers.
S buys and gains a Highway.
S draws 2 Coppers, an Estate, a Chariot Race and a Guardian.

Turn 6 - Yosarrian18
Y plays a Highway.
Y draws a card.
Y plays a Highway.
Y draws a card.
Y plays a Salvager.
Y trashes a Copper.
Y plays 3 Coppers.
Y buys and gains a Highway.
Y shuffles their deck.
Y draws 5 cards.

Turn 6 - SG252
S plays a Chariot Race.
S reveals a Salvager.
S puts a Salvager into their hand.
Y reveals a Highway.
S plays a Salvager.
S trashes an Estate.
S plays 2 Coppers.
S buys and gains a Chariot Race.
S plays a Guardian.
S shuffles their deck.
S draws 3 Coppers, an Estate and a Highway.

Turn 7 - Yosarrian18
Y plays a Highway.
Y draws a card.
Y plays a Highway.
Y draws a card.
Y plays a Salvager.
Y trashes an Estate.
Y plays 2 Coppers.
Y buys and gains a Chariot Race and a Guardian.
Y plays a Guardian.
Y draws 5 cards.

Turn 7 - SG252
S starts their turn.
S gets +1 Coin (Guardian).
S plays a Highway.
S draws a Chariot Race.
S plays a Chariot Race.
S reveals a Copper.
S puts a Copper into their hand.
Y reveals a Chariot Race.
S plays 4 Coppers.
S buys and gains a Bridge Troll.
S draws a Copper, an Estate, a Salvager, a Bridge Troll and a Guardian.

Turn 8 - Yosarrian18
Y starts their turn.
Y gets +1 Coin (Guardian).
Y plays 2 Coppers and a Silver.
Y buys and gains a Highway.
Y shuffles their deck.
Y draws 5 cards.

Turn 8 - SG252
S plays a Salvager.
S trashes an Estate.
S plays a Copper.
S buys a Delve.
S gains a Silver.
S buys a City Quarter.
S takes 8 debt.
S gains a City Quarter.
S repays 1 debt (7 remaining).
S plays a Guardian.
S shuffles their deck.
S draws 3 Coppers, a Highway and a Chariot Race.

Turn 9 - Yosarrian18
Y plays a Chariot Race.
Y reveals a Highway.
Y puts a Highway into their hand.
S reveals a Copper.
Y gets 1 VP.
Y plays a Highway.
Y draws a card.
Y plays a Highway.
Y draws a card.
Y plays a Chariot Race.
Y reveals a Copper.
Y puts a Copper into their hand.
S reveals a Copper.
Y plays a Highway.
Y draws a card.
Y plays a Highway.
Y draws a card.
Y buys and gains a Highway.
Y plays a Guardian.
Y draws 5 cards.

Turn 9 - SG252
S starts their turn.
S gets +1 Coin (Guardian).
S plays a Chariot Race.
S reveals a Copper.
S puts a Copper into their hand.
Y shuffles their deck.
Y reveals a Chariot Race.
S plays a Highway.
S draws an Estate.
S plays 4 Coppers.
S repays 5 debt (2 remaining).
S draws 2 Coppers, a Silver, a Chariot Race and a Guardian.

Turn 10 - Yosarrian18
Y starts their turn.
Y gets +1 Coin (Guardian).
Y plays a Salvager.
Y trashes an Estate.
Y plays 2 Coppers and a Silver.
Y buys and gains a Bridge Troll and a Guardian.
Y plays a Guardian.
Y draws 5 cards.

Turn 10 - SG252
S plays a Chariot Race.
S reveals a Bridge Troll.
S puts a Bridge Troll into their hand.
Y reveals a Copper.
S gets 1 VP.
S plays a Bridge Troll.
S plays 2 Coppers and a Silver.
S repays 2 debt.
S buys and gains a Chariot Race and a Guardian.
S plays a Guardian.
S plays a Guardian.
S shuffles their deck.
S draws 2 Coppers, a Salvager, a Bridge Troll and a City Quarter.

Turn 11 - Yosarrian18
Y starts their turn.
Y gets +1 Coin (Guardian).
Y plays a Chariot Race.
Y reveals a Copper.
Y puts a Copper into their hand.
S reveals a Copper.
Y plays a Highway.
Y draws a card.
Y plays a Highway.
Y draws a card.
Y plays a Chariot Race.
Y reveals a Highway.
Y puts a Highway into their hand.
S reveals a Copper.
Y gets 1 VP.
Y plays a Highway.
Y draws a card.
Y plays a Highway.
Y draws a card.
Y plays a Highway.
Y shuffles their deck.
Y draws a card.
Y buys and gains a Highway.
Y plays a Guardian.
Y draws 5 cards.

Turn 11 - SG252
S starts their turn.
S gets +1 Buy (Bridge Troll).
S gets +1 Coin (Guardian).
S gets +1 Coin (Guardian).
S plays a City Quarter.
S reveals 2 Coppers, a Bridge Troll and a Salvager.
S draws a Copper and an Estate.
S plays a Salvager.
S trashes an Estate.
S plays a Bridge Troll.
S plays 3 Coppers.
S buys and gains 2 Highways.
S draws a Copper, a Silver, a Highway, a Chariot Race and a Guardian.

Turn 12 - Yosarrian18
Y starts their turn.
Y gets +1 Coin (Guardian).
Y plays a Bridge Troll.
Y plays 2 Coppers and a Silver.
Y buys and gains a Highway.
Y shuffles their deck.
Y draws 5 cards.

Turn 12 - SG252
S starts their turn.
S gets +1 Buy (Bridge Troll).
S plays a Chariot Race.
S reveals a Copper.
S puts a Copper into their hand.
Y reveals a Highway.
S plays a Highway.
S draws a Chariot Race.
S plays a Chariot Race.
S reveals a Chariot Race.
S puts a Chariot Race into their hand.
Y reveals a Highway.
S plays a Chariot Race.
S reveals a Copper.
S puts a Copper into their hand.
Y reveals a Highway.
S plays a Silver.
S returns -Coin token set by Bridge Troll.
S plays 3 Coppers.
S buys and gains a Bridge Troll and a Chariot Race.
S plays a Guardian.
S shuffles their deck.
S draws 4 Coppers and a City Quarter.

Turn 13 - Yosarrian18
Y starts their turn.
Y gets +1 Buy (Bridge Troll).
Y plays a Highway.
Y draws a card.
Y plays a Highway.
Y draws a card.
Y plays a Highway.
Y draws a card.
Y plays a Highway.
Y draws a card.
Y plays a Highway.
Y draws a card.
Y plays 3 Coppers and a Silver.
Y buys and gains a Province and a Bridge Troll.
Y plays a Guardian.
Y draws 5 cards.

Turn 13 - SG252
S starts their turn.
S gets +1 Coin (Guardian).
S plays a City Quarter.
S reveals 4 Coppers.
S plays 4 Coppers.
S buys and gains a Bridge Troll.
S draws 3 Bridge Trolls and 2 Chariot Races.

Turn 14 - Yosarrian18
Y starts their turn.
Y gets +1 Coin (Guardian).
Y plays a Chariot Race.
Y reveals a Copper.
Y puts a Copper into their hand.
S reveals a Copper.
Y plays a Chariot Race.
Y reveals a Highway.
Y puts a Highway into their hand.
S reveals a Copper.
Y gets 1 VP.
Y plays a Highway.
Y draws a card.
Y plays a Highway.
Y draws a card.
Y plays a Salvager.
Y trashes a Copper.
Y buys and gains 2 Chariot Races.
Y plays a Guardian.
Y shuffles their deck.
Y draws 5 cards.

Turn 14 - SG252
S plays a Chariot Race.
S reveals a Copper.
S puts a Copper into their hand.
Y reveals a Highway.
S plays a Chariot Race.
S reveals a Guardian.
S puts a Guardian into their hand.
Y reveals a Highway.
S plays a Bridge Troll.
S plays a Copper.
S buys a City Quarter.
S takes 8 debt.
S gains a City Quarter.
S repays 1 debt (7 remaining).
S plays a Guardian.
S draws a Copper, a Silver, a Salvager, a Highway and a Chariot Race.

Turn 15 - Yosarrian18
Y starts their turn.
Y gets +1 Coin (Guardian).
Y plays a Chariot Race.
Y reveals a Highway.
Y puts a Highway into their hand.
S reveals a Chariot Race.
Y gets 1 VP.
Y plays a Highway.
Y draws a card.
Y plays a Highway.
Y draws a card.
Y plays a Highway.
Y draws a card.
Y plays a Bridge Troll.
Y plays 2 Coppers and a Silver.
Y buys and gains a Province and a Chariot Race.
Y draws 5 cards.

Turn 15 - SG252
S starts their turn.
S gets +1 Buy (Bridge Troll).
S gets +1 Coin (Guardian).
S plays a Chariot Race.
S reveals a Chariot Race.
S puts a Chariot Race into their hand.
Y reveals a Highway.
S plays a Chariot Race.
S reveals a Highway.
S puts a Highway into their hand.
Y reveals a Highway.
S plays a Highway.
S draws a Copper.
S plays a Highway.
S draws a Highway.
S plays a Highway.
S draws a Guardian.
S plays a Salvager.
S trashes a Copper.
S plays a Copper and a Silver.
S repays 4 debt (3 remaining).
S plays a Guardian.
S shuffles their deck.
S draws a Copper, 3 Bridge Trolls and a Guardian.

Turn 16 - Yosarrian18
Y starts their turn.
Y gets +1 Buy (Bridge Troll).
Y plays a Chariot Race.
Y reveals a Highway.
Y puts a Highway into their hand.
S reveals a Silver.
Y gets 1 VP.
Y plays a Chariot Race.
Y reveals a Highway.
Y puts a Highway into their hand.
S reveals a Silver.
Y gets 1 VP.
Y plays a Highway.
Y draws a card.
Y plays a Highway.
Y draws a card.
Y plays a Highway.
Y draws a card.
Y plays a Chariot Race.
Y reveals a Highway.
Y puts a Highway into their hand.
S reveals a Silver.
Y gets 1 VP.
Y plays a Highway.
Y draws a card.
Y plays a Bridge Troll.
Y plays 2 Coppers.
Y buys and gains 2 Provinces and a Chariot Race.
Y plays a Guardian.
Y shuffles their deck.
Y draws 5 cards.

Turn 16 - SG252
S starts their turn.
S gets +1 Coin (Guardian).
S plays a Bridge Troll.
S plays a Copper.
S repays 2 debt (1 remaining).
S plays a Guardian.
S draws a Copper, a Silver, a Highway and 2 City Quarters.

Turn 17 - Yosarrian18
Y starts their turn.
Y gets +1 Buy (Bridge Troll).
Y gets +1 Coin (Guardian).
Y plays a Chariot Race.
Y reveals a Province.
Y puts a Province into their hand.
S reveals a Bridge Troll.
Y gets 1 VP.
Y plays a Chariot Race.
Y reveals a Highway.
Y puts a Highway into their hand.
S reveals a Bridge Troll.
Y plays a Highway.
Y draws a card.
Y plays a Chariot Race.
Y reveals a Highway.
Y puts a Highway into their hand.
S reveals a Bridge Troll.
Y plays a Highway.
Y draws a card.
Y plays 2 Coppers.
Y buys and gains a Bridge Troll and a Guardian.
Y plays a Guardian.
Y plays a Guardian.
Y draws 5 cards.

Turn 17 - SG252
S starts their turn.
S gets +1 Buy (Bridge Troll).
S gets +1 Coin (Guardian).
S plays a City Quarter.
S reveals a Copper, a Highway, a City Quarter and a Silver.
S draws a Highway and a Bridge Troll.
S plays a City Quarter.
S reveals a Copper, 2 Highways, a Silver and a Bridge Troll.
S draws a Copper and 2 Chariot Races.
S plays a Chariot Race.
S reveals a Chariot Race.
S puts a Chariot Race into their hand.
Y reveals a Chariot Race.
S plays a Chariot Race.
S reveals a Chariot Race.
S puts a Chariot Race into their hand.
Y reveals a Chariot Race.
S plays a Chariot Race.
S reveals a Copper.
S puts a Copper into their hand.
Y reveals a Chariot Race.
S plays a Chariot Race.
S reveals a Guardian.
S puts a Guardian into their hand.
Y reveals a Chariot Race.
S plays a Highway.
S draws a Salvager.
S plays a Highway.
S draws a Copper.
S plays a Bridge Troll.
S plays a Salvager.
S trashes a Copper.
S plays 3 Coppers and a Silver.
S repays 1 debt.
S buys and gains a Duchy, a Province and 2 Gardens.
S plays a Guardian.
S shuffles their deck.
S draws 2 Coppers, a Highway and 2 City Quarters.

Turn 18 - Yosarrian18
Y starts their turn.
Y gets +1 Coin (Guardian).
Y gets +1 Coin (Guardian).
Y plays a Chariot Race.
Y reveals a Chariot Race.
Y puts a Chariot Race into their hand.
S reveals a Chariot Race.
Y plays a Highway.
Y draws a card.
Y plays a Chariot Race.
Y reveals a Bridge Troll.
Y puts a Bridge Troll into their hand.
S reveals a Chariot Race.
Y gets 1 VP.
Y plays a Highway.
Y draws a card.
Y plays a Chariot Race.
Y reveals a Highway.
Y puts a Highway into their hand.
S reveals a Chariot Race.
Y gets 1 VP.
Y plays a Highway.
Y draws a card.
Y plays a Bridge Troll.
Y plays a Silver.
Y buys and gains a Province and a Guardian.
Y plays a Guardian.
Y draws 5 cards.

Turn 18 - SG252
S starts their turn.
S gets +1 Buy (Bridge Troll).
S gets +1 Coin (Guardian).
S plays a City Quarter.
S reveals 2 Coppers, a Highway and a City Quarter.
S draws a Salvager and a Chariot Race.
S plays a City Quarter.
S reveals a Chariot Race, 2 Coppers, a Highway and a Salvager.
S draws a Copper, a Province and a Highway.
S plays a Chariot Race.
S reveals a Duchy.
S puts a Duchy into their hand.
Y shuffles their deck.
Y reveals a Chariot Race.
S gets 1 VP.
S plays a Highway.
S draws a Bridge Troll.
S plays a Highway.
S draws a Chariot Race.
S plays a Chariot Race.
S reveals a Guardian.
S puts a Guardian into their hand.
Y reveals a Chariot Race.
S plays a Salvager.
S trashes a Copper.
S plays a Bridge Troll.
S plays 2 Coppers.
S buys and gains a Province and 3 Gardens.
S plays a Guardian.
S draws a Copper, 2 Gardens, a Bridge Troll and a Guardian.

Turn 19 - Yosarrian18
Y starts their turn.
Y gets +1 Buy (Bridge Troll).
Y gets +1 Coin (Guardian).
Y plays a Highway.
Y draws a card.
Y plays a Chariot Race.
Y reveals a Highway.
Y puts a Highway into their hand.
S reveals a Bridge Troll.
Y plays a Highway.
Y draws a card.
Y plays a Highway.
Y draws a card.
Y plays 4 Coppers.
Y buys and gains a Province and a Gardens.
Y draws 5 cards.

The big temptation on this board is the City Quarter megaturn, however, after playing the board I think this might be a trap. With Highway and Bridge Troll there is so much cost reduction here that you want very little coin in your deck, meaning debt takes a long time to pay off. Whilst I spent several turns paying off debt my opponent was getting ahead.

An interesting thing here is that my opponent scored a lot more from his Chariot Races than I did from mine. We both only bought a single Salvager for thinning. Was the difference luck, a consequence of my opponent improving their deck whilst I was paying off debt or is there some other trick that I am not seeing?
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Mic Qsenoch

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Re: Posting losses in an attempt to get better.
« Reply #33 on: February 05, 2018, 02:31:29 pm »
+3

I don't think it's crazy to open Mine here as a way of building a deck which can more easily pay off City Quarters, but the Bridge Troll is nice for picking up Chariot Races. I think I'd rather eat the Bridge Troll attack than have any Guardians getting in the way of draw, but not really sure of this. I think it's a crime to ignore Archive on this board, it's really great here with the slow trashing, incentive to draw the deck, and for boosting initial CQ plays. There may be something to opening Salvager over the 5s just to thin more quickly, and I'd at least consider a second one, though I'd have to read the game carefully to see if there was a good spot for it.
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faust

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Re: Posting losses in an attempt to get better.
« Reply #34 on: February 06, 2018, 02:37:13 am »
+1

An interesting thing here is that my opponent scored a lot more from his Chariot Races than I did from mine. We both only bought a single Salvager for thinning. Was the difference luck, a consequence of my opponent improving their deck whilst I was paying off debt or is there some other trick that I am not seeing?
Well, if your deck was running on Bridge Troll/Highway, then I assume a bunch of the time you would flip cards that both cost $0 at the time, when you might have scored without Highway/Bridge Troll.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

xyz123

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Re: Posting losses in an attempt to get better.
« Reply #35 on: February 06, 2018, 03:01:41 am »
0

An interesting thing here is that my opponent scored a lot more from his Chariot Races than I did from mine. We both only bought a single Salvager for thinning. Was the difference luck, a consequence of my opponent improving their deck whilst I was paying off debt or is there some other trick that I am not seeing?
Well, if your deck was running on Bridge Troll/Highway, then I assume a bunch of the time you would flip cards that both cost $0 at the time, when you might have scored without Highway/Bridge Troll.

So was my opponents, which is why I am a bit confused about it.
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Fuu

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Re: Posting losses in an attempt to get better.
« Reply #36 on: February 06, 2018, 09:26:44 am »
0

Hmm what about Gardens on this one? Gaining cards is enabled by Treasure Trove, and Delve for cheap Silver. To try and get a lot of Treasure Trove plays, tempted also to Mine Silver into Treasure Trove.
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Awaclus

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Re: Posting losses in an attempt to get better.
« Reply #37 on: February 06, 2018, 09:47:25 am »
0

Hmm what about Gardens on this one? Gaining cards is enabled by Treasure Trove, and Delve for cheap Silver. To try and get a lot of Treasure Trove plays, tempted also to Mine Silver into Treasure Trove.

I don't think it can compete with the engine.
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Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

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markusin

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Re: Posting losses in an attempt to get better.
« Reply #38 on: February 06, 2018, 10:22:51 am »
0

Hmm what about Gardens on this one? Gaining cards is enabled by Treasure Trove, and Delve for cheap Silver. To try and get a lot of Treasure Trove plays, tempted also to Mine Silver into Treasure Trove.

I don't think it can compete with the engine.

Yeah the engine seems really explosive here once you start the cost reduction train, though I'm not sure how fast Treasure Trove / Delve money might be when it comes to Province rushing.
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terminalCopper

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Re: Posting losses in an attempt to get better.
« Reply #39 on: February 07, 2018, 09:35:42 am »
+2

Hmm what about Gardens on this one? Gaining cards is enabled by Treasure Trove, and Delve for cheap Silver. To try and get a lot of Treasure Trove plays, tempted also to Mine Silver into Treasure Trove.

I don't think it can compete with the engine.

Yeah the engine seems really explosive here once you start the cost reduction train, though I'm not sure how fast Treasure Trove / Delve money might be when it comes to Province rushing.

Even without thinking, I would have chosen the engine path.  I totally agree with Mic that I want 2 Salvagers and multiple Archives here, but no Guardians. The only point where I disagree is that I wouldn't open Mine on 5/2; Bridge Troll looks stronger to me. I think it is more important to have better economy than our opponent right from the start than having a better shot at CQ's later. We should be able to get CQs by salvaging silver or salvaging salvager, also we don't need that many. Even a single CQ can provide enough actions to bring 4 Bridge Trolls in play, add four highways and pick 5 provs for free. No need to do better.

However, to be fair, it's not totally clear to me whether engine is best here. BM is really a powerful option in this kingdom, because there's a lot more synergy going on than Treasure Trove & Delve. Salvager helps milling provinces, it can also salvage Treasure Trove's Gold; Archive is great in huge decks, it smoothes out draws, and helps to bring Salvagers and their targets together. In general, Archive/Treasure Trove/Delve are good in BM, and the described synergies turn BM into a tough benchmark. If you open 2/5, an approximate plan might be

T1/2: Treasure Trove / Delve
T3/4: Salvager / Archive
T5-T9: 2 Provinces, Salvager, Delves, Archive
T10 - T12: Buy 2 more Provinces, mill a third Province
-> 4 provinces, with 3 provinces left

This performance is close to Gear-BM, which is one of the best BM-attempts in Dominion. And it has to be mentioned that the deck doesn't stall in T12, there's more Gold coming in, and milling will go on.

I don't think it makes sense to describe a similar buying plan for engine strategies, they are way more complex, flexible and situational. But my gut tells me that in a non-mirror against a good BM-player, our camp of engine believers would have to hurry up.

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xyz123

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Re: Posting losses in an attempt to get better.
« Reply #40 on: February 07, 2018, 03:55:22 pm »
+1

It may not need a particularly good BM player to be that quick. I used terminalCopper's post as a guide for playing money against Lord Rattington and bought 5 Provinces in 13 turns.
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xyz123

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Re: Posting losses in an attempt to get better.
« Reply #41 on: February 08, 2018, 02:14:54 pm »
0




Provinces/Estates game, no events or landmarks.

Code: [Select]
Game #11468004, rated.
Winnion: 49.46
SG252: 45.39

W starts with 7 Coppers and 3 Estates.
S starts with 7 Coppers and 3 Estates.
W shuffles their deck.
W draws 5 cards.
S shuffles their deck.
S draws 4 Coppers and an Estate.

Turn 1 - Winnion
W draws 5 cards.

Turn 1 - SG252
S plays 4 Coppers.
S buys and gains a Sea Hag.
S draws 3 Coppers and 2 Estates.

Turn 2 - Winnion
W plays 5 Coppers.
W buys and gains a Stables.
W shuffles their deck.
W draws 5 cards.

Turn 2 - SG252
S plays 3 Coppers.
S buys and gains a Wishing Well.
S shuffles their deck.
S draws 3 Coppers, an Estate and a Sea Hag.

Turn 3 - Winnion
W plays 4 Coppers.
W buys and gains a Potion.
W draws 5 cards.

Turn 3 - SG252
S plays a Sea Hag.
W discards a Copper.
W gains a Curse.
S plays 3 Coppers.
S buys and gains a Wishing Well.
S draws 3 Coppers, an Estate and a Wishing Well.

Turn 4 - Winnion
W plays a Stables.
W discards a Copper.
W shuffles their deck.
W draws 3 cards.
W plays 3 Coppers.
W buys and gains a Menagerie.
W draws 5 cards.

Turn 4 - SG252
S plays a Wishing Well.
S draws an Estate.
S wishes for Copper and finds it.
S plays 4 Coppers.
S buys and gains a Potion.
S shuffles their deck.
S draws 4 Coppers and a Sea Hag.

Turn 5 - Winnion
W plays 4 Coppers.
W buys and gains a Temple.
W shuffles their deck.
W draws 5 cards.

Turn 5 - SG252
S plays a Sea Hag.
W discards a Curse.
W gains a Curse.
S plays 4 Coppers.
S buys and gains a Temple.
S draws a Copper, an Estate, 2 Wishing Wells and a Potion.

Turn 6 - Winnion
W plays 3 Coppers and a Potion.
W buys and gains a University.
W draws 5 cards.

Turn 6 - SG252
S plays a Wishing Well.
S draws a Copper.
S wishes for Copper but reveals Estate.
S plays a Wishing Well.
S draws an Estate.
S wishes for Copper and finds it.
S plays 3 Coppers and a Potion.
S buys and gains a University.
S shuffles their deck.
S draws 3 Coppers, an Estate and a Temple.

Turn 7 - Winnion
W plays a Stables.
W discards a Copper.
W draws 3 cards.
W plays a Menagerie.
W reveals a Curse, 2 Coppers, a Temple and an Estate.
W draws a card.
W plays a Temple.
W gets 1 VP.
W trashes a Curse and an Estate.
W plays 3 Coppers.
W buys and gains a Menagerie.
W shuffles their deck.
W draws 5 cards.

Turn 7 - SG252
S plays a Temple.
S gets 1 VP.
S trashes a Copper and an Estate.
S draws 2 Coppers, a Wishing Well, a Sea Hag and a Potion.

Turn 8 - Winnion
W plays 3 Coppers.
W buys and gains a Menagerie.
W draws 5 cards.

Turn 8 - SG252
S plays a Wishing Well.
S draws an Estate.
S wishes for Copper and finds it.
S plays a Sea Hag.
W discards a Copper.
W gains a Curse.
S plays 3 Coppers and a Potion.
S buys and gains a University.
S shuffles their deck.
S draws a Copper, an Estate, a Wishing Well, a Potion and a University.

Turn 9 - Winnion
W plays a Menagerie.
W reveals 2 Coppers, an Estate and a Potion.
W draws a card.
W plays 2 Coppers and a Potion.
W buys and gains a University.
W draws 5 cards.

Turn 9 - SG252
S plays a University.
S gains a Stables.
S plays a Wishing Well.
S draws a Copper.
S wishes for Copper but reveals University.
S plays 2 Coppers and a Potion.
S buys and gains a University.
S draws a Copper, an Estate, a Wishing Well, a University and a Temple.

Turn 10 - Winnion
W plays a Menagerie.
W reveals a Copper, a Temple, a Stables and a University.
W shuffles their deck.
W draws 3 cards.
W plays a University.
W gains a Walled Village.
W plays a Stables.
W discards a Copper.
W draws 3 cards.
W plays a Temple.
W gets 1 VP.
W trashes a Curse, a Copper and an Estate.
W plays a Menagerie.
W reveals a Copper and an Estate.
W draws 3 cards.
W plays a Menagerie.
W reveals a Curse, 2 Coppers and an Estate.
W draws a card.
W plays a University.
W gains a Temple.
W takes 3 VP from the Temple pile.
W plays 2 Coppers.
W shuffles their deck.
W draws 5 cards.

Turn 10 - SG252
S plays a University.
S gains an Armory.
S plays a Wishing Well.
S draws a Copper.
S wishes for Copper but reveals Sea Hag.
S plays a Temple.
S gets 1 VP.
S trashes a Copper and an Estate.
S shuffles their deck.
S draws 4 Coppers and a Sea Hag.

Turn 11 - Winnion
W plays a Menagerie.
W reveals 3 Coppers and a Potion.
W draws a card.
W plays a University.
W gains a Stables.
W plays 3 Coppers and a Potion.
W buys and gains a University.
W draws 5 cards.

Turn 11 - SG252
S plays a Sea Hag.
W discards a Temple.
W gains a Curse.
S plays 4 Coppers.
S buys and gains a Menagerie.
S draws an Estate, a Potion, 2 Universities and a Temple.

Turn 12 - Winnion
W plays a Menagerie.
W reveals a Temple, a Walled Village, an Estate and a University.
W draws 3 cards.
W plays a Walled Village.
W draws a card.
W plays a University.
W gains a Stables.
W plays a Temple.
W gets 1 VP.
W trashes a Curse, a Copper and an Estate.
W plays a Copper.
W buys and gains a Copper.
W shuffles their deck.
W draws 5 cards.

Turn 12 - SG252
S plays a University.
S gains a Menagerie.
S plays a University.
S gains a Menagerie.
S plays a Temple.
S gets 1 VP.
S trashes an Estate.
S draws a Copper, 2 Wishing Wells, a Stables and an Armory.

Turn 13 - Winnion
W plays a Stables.
W discards a Copper.
W draws 3 cards.
W plays a Menagerie.
W reveals 2 Menageries, a Copper, a Temple and a Potion.
W draws a card.
W plays a Menagerie.
W reveals a Menagerie, 2 Coppers, a Temple and a Potion.
W draws a card.
W plays a Menagerie.
W reveals 3 Coppers, a Temple and a Potion.
W draws a card.
W plays a Walled Village.
W draws a card.
W plays a Temple.
W gets 1 VP.
W trashes a Temple.
W plays 3 Coppers and a Potion.
W buys and gains a Silver.
W draws 5 cards.

Turn 13 - SG252
S plays a Wishing Well.
S draws a University.
S shuffles their deck.
S wishes for Copper but reveals Temple.
S plays a Wishing Well.
S draws a Temple.
S wishes for Copper but reveals University.
S plays a University.
S gains a Temple.
S takes 4 VP from the Temple pile.
S plays a Stables.
S discards a Copper.
S draws 2 Coppers and a University.
S plays a University.
S gains a Menagerie.
S plays an Armory.
S gains an Armory.
S plays a Temple.
S gets 1 VP.
S trashes a Copper.
S draws a Copper, a Sea Hag, a Potion, a Menagerie and an Armory.

Turn 14 - Winnion
W plays a University.
W gains a Stables.
W plays a Stables.
W discards a Copper.
W draws 3 cards.
W plays a Stables.
W discards a Copper.
W shuffles their deck.
W draws 3 cards.
W plays a University.
W gains an Inn.
W looks at a card.
W shuffles an Inn into their deck.
W plays a Menagerie.
W reveals a Curse, a Menagerie, a Silver and a University.
W draws 3 cards.
W plays a Menagerie.
W reveals a Curse, a Silver, a Copper, a Stables, a Potion and a University.
W draws 3 cards.
W plays a Temple.
W gets 1 VP.
W trashes a Curse.
W plays a Stables.
W discards a Copper.
W draws 3 cards.
W plays a Walled Village.
W draws a card.
W plays an Inn.
W draws 2 cards.
W discards a card and a Potion.
W plays a Menagerie.
W reveals a Silver, 4 Coppers and a University.
W draws a card.
W plays a Stables.
W discards a Copper.
W shuffles their deck.
W draws 3 cards.
W plays a University.
W gains a Temple.
W takes 2 VP from the Temple pile.
W plays a Silver, 5 Coppers and a Potion.
W buys and gains a Gold.
W shuffles their deck.
W draws 5 cards.

Turn 14 - SG252
S plays a Menagerie.
S reveals a Copper, an Armory, a Potion and a Sea Hag.
S draws a Copper, a University and a Menagerie.
S plays a University.
S gains a Menagerie.
S plays an Armory.
S gains a Silver.
S plays a Menagerie.
S reveals 2 Coppers, a Potion and a Sea Hag.
S draws a Silver.
S plays a Sea Hag.
W discards a Copper.
W gains a Curse.
S plays a Silver, 2 Coppers and a Potion.
S buys and gains a Walled Village.
S shuffles their deck.
S draws a University, 3 Menageries and a Temple.

Turn 15 - Winnion
W plays an Inn.
W draws 2 cards.
W discards a card and a University.
W plays a Temple.
W gets 1 VP.
W trashes a Curse and a Copper.
W plays a Menagerie.
W reveals nothing.
W draws 3 cards.
W plays a University.
W gains a Temple.
W takes 1 VP from the Temple pile.
W plays a Stables.
W plays a Temple.
W gets 1 VP.
W draws 5 cards.

Turn 15 - SG252
S plays a University.
S gains a Walled Village.
S plays a Menagerie.
S reveals 2 Menageries and a Temple.
S draws an Armory.
S plays a Menagerie.
S reveals a Menagerie, a Temple and an Armory.
S draws a Copper, a Sea Hag and a Stables.
S plays a Menagerie.
S reveals a Copper, a Temple, an Armory, a Stables and a Sea Hag.
S draws a Menagerie, a Temple and a Walled Village.
S plays a Stables.
S discards a Copper.
S draws a Copper, a Silver and a University.
S plays a Walled Village.
S draws a Potion.
S plays a University.
S gains an Armory.
S plays a Temple.
S gets 1 VP.
S trashes a Copper.
S plays a Menagerie.
S reveals a Silver, a Temple, an Armory, a Potion and a Sea Hag.
S draws a Copper and 2 Wishing Wells.
S plays a Wishing Well.
S draws a Menagerie.
S wishes for Menagerie but reveals Copper.
S plays a Menagerie.
S reveals a Silver, a Copper, a Wishing Well, a Temple, an Armory, a Potion and a Sea Hag.
S draws a Copper, a University and an Armory.
S plays a University.
S gains a Walled Village.
S plays a Wishing Well.
S shuffles their deck.
S draws a Walled Village.
S wishes for Walled Village but reveals Armory.
S plays a Walled Village.
S draws an Armory.
S plays a Sea Hag.
W discards a Copper.
W gains a Curse.
S plays a Temple.
S gets 1 VP.
S trashes a Copper.
S plays an Armory.
S gains a Temple.
S takes 3 VP from the Temple pile.
S plays an Armory.
S gains a Silver.
S plays an Armory.
S gains a Menagerie.
S plays a Silver, a Copper and a Potion.
S buys and gains a Silver.
S draws a Copper, a Silver, a Menagerie, a Temple and a Walled Village.

Turn 16 - Winnion
W plays a Menagerie.
W reveals a Gold, a Menagerie, a Walled Village and a Stables.
W draws 3 cards.
W plays a Walled Village.
W draws a card.
W plays a Stables.
W discards a Copper.
W draws 3 cards.
W plays a Stables.
W discards a Copper.
W shuffles their deck.
W draws 3 cards.
W plays a Stables.
W discards a Potion.
W draws 3 cards.
W plays a Menagerie.
W reveals a Gold, a Curse, a Menagerie, a Silver, 2 Coppers, 2 Temples and a University.
W draws a card.
W plays a Temple.
W gets 1 VP.
W trashes a Curse and a Copper.
W plays a University.
W gains an Armory.
W plays a Menagerie.
W reveals a Gold, a Silver, a Copper, a Temple and a University.
W draws 3 cards.
W plays a Temple.
W gets 1 VP.
W trashes a Copper.
W plays a University.
W gains an Inn.
W looks at 3 cards.
W shuffles an Inn and an Armory into their deck.
W plays a Temple.
W gets 1 VP.
W trashes a Copper.
W plays a University.
W gains a Temple.
W takes 3 VP from the Temple pile.
W plays a Gold and a Silver.
W buys and gains a Duchy.
W draws 5 cards.

Turn 16 - SG252
S plays a Menagerie.
S reveals a Silver, a Copper, a Temple and a Walled Village.
S shuffles their deck.
S draws a Wishing Well, a Menagerie and a Stables.
S plays a Menagerie.
S reveals a Silver, a Copper, a Wishing Well, a Temple, a Walled Village and a Stables.
S draws a University, a Temple and a Walled Village.
S plays a Walled Village.
S draws a Menagerie.
S plays a Temple.
S gets 1 VP.
S trashes a Wishing Well.
S plays a Menagerie.
S reveals a Silver, a Copper, a Temple, a Walled Village, a Stables and a University.
S draws a Potion, an Armory and a Temple.
S plays a Walled Village.
S draws a University.
S plays a Temple.
S gets 1 VP.
S trashes a Potion.
S plays a University.
S gains a Temple.
S takes 2 VP from the Temple pile.
S plays a University.
S gains a Menagerie.
S plays an Armory.
S gains a Silver.
S plays a Stables.
S discards a Copper.
S draws a Copper and 2 Silvers.
S plays 3 Silvers and a Copper.
S buys and gains a Gold.
S draws a Wishing Well, a Sea Hag, 2 Menageries and an Armory.

Turn 17 - Winnion
W plays an Inn.
W shuffles their deck.
W draws 2 cards.
W discards a card and an Armory.
W plays a Stables.
W discards a Copper.
W draws 3 cards.
W plays a Menagerie.
W reveals an Inn, a Silver, a Duchy and a Temple.
W draws 3 cards.
W plays a Temple.
W gets 1 VP.
W trashes a Temple.
W plays an Inn.
W draws 2 cards.
W discards a card and a University.
W plays a Temple.
W gets 1 VP.
W trashes a Temple.
W plays a Gold and a Silver.
W buys and gains a Temple.
W takes 2 VP from the Temple pile.
W draws 5 cards.

Turn 17 - SG252
S plays a Menagerie.
S reveals a Menagerie, a Wishing Well, an Armory and a Sea Hag.
S draws a Silver, an Armory and a Walled Village.
S plays a Walled Village.
S draws a Menagerie.
S plays an Armory.
S gains a Walled Village.
S plays a Menagerie.
S reveals a Menagerie, a Silver, a Wishing Well, an Armory and a Sea Hag.
S shuffles their deck.
S draws a University, a Menagerie and a Walled Village.
S plays a Menagerie.
S reveals a Menagerie, a Silver, a Wishing Well, a Walled Village, an Armory, a Sea Hag and a University.
S draws a Copper, a Silver and a Temple.
S plays a University.
S gains a Walled Village.
S plays a Walled Village.
S draws a University.
S plays a University.
S gains an Armory.
S plays a Wishing Well.
S draws a Walled Village.
S wishes for Menagerie but reveals Walled Village.
S plays a Walled Village.
S draws a Walled Village.
S plays a Walled Village.
S draws a Silver.
S plays a Menagerie.
S reveals 3 Silvers, a Copper, a Temple, an Armory and a Sea Hag.
S draws a Temple.
S plays a Sea Hag.
W discards a Stables.
W gains a Curse.
S plays an Armory.
S gains a Walled Village.
S plays a Temple.
S gets 1 VP.
S trashes a Copper.
S plays 3 Silvers.
S buys and gains a Gold.
S draws a Gold, 2 Menageries, a Temple and a Walled Village.

Turn 18 - Winnion
W plays a Stables.
W discards a Potion.
W draws 3 cards.
W plays a University.
W gains a Walled Village.
W plays a Menagerie.
W reveals a Curse, a Menagerie, a Stables and a University.
W shuffles their deck.
W draws 3 cards.
W plays a Walled Village.
W draws a card.
W plays a Menagerie.
W reveals a Curse, an Inn, a Stables, an Armory, a Potion and a University.
W draws 3 cards.
W plays an Armory.
W gains a Walled Village.
W plays a University.
W gains a Walled Village.
W plays a Stables.
W discards a Potion.
W draws 3 cards.
W plays a Temple.
W gets 1 VP.
W trashes a Curse.
W plays a Stables.
W discards a Copper.
W draws 3 cards.
W plays a Temple.
W gets 1 VP.
W trashes a Walled Village.
W plays a Menagerie.
W reveals an Inn, a Duchy, a Walled Village and a Stables.
W draws 3 cards.
W plays a Walled Village.
W draws a card.
W plays a University.
W gains a Sea Hag.
W plays an Inn.
W draws 2 cards.
W discards a card and an Inn.
W plays a Gold, a Silver and a Copper.
W buys and gains a Duchy.
W shuffles their deck.
W draws 5 cards.

Sorry, not as interesting a board as a last one.

Although there is no way of gaining more than one Province or Duchy per turn, I thought the gainers and Temple made the engine worthwhile. Having played it I am now wondering if some sort of money strategy might have been the way to go.

Given that my opponent also went for an engine, I think my biggest mistake was continuing to build thinking my opponent would at some point stall and allow me to catch up. I got caught out with a three pile ending before I had started greening. I also think my opponent did play the Temple sub game better than me, particularly in the early stages.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2018, 02:16:36 pm by xyz123 »
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xyz123

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Re: Posting losses in an attempt to get better.
« Reply #42 on: February 09, 2018, 02:12:54 pm »
0




Provinces/Estates. No events or landmarks.

Code: [Select]
Game #11500039, rated.
SG252: 44.95
Arael81: 42.67

S starts with 7 Coppers and 3 Estates.
A starts with 7 Coppers and 3 Estates.
S shuffles their deck.
S draws 3 Coppers and 2 Estates.
A shuffles their deck.
A draws 5 cards.

Turn 1 - SG252
S plays 3 Coppers.
S buys and gains a Silver.
S draws 4 Coppers and an Estate.

Turn 1 - Arael81
A plays 4 Coppers.
A buys and gains a Tournament.
A draws 5 cards.

Turn 2 - SG252
S plays 4 Coppers.
S buys and gains a Tournament.
S shuffles their deck.
S draws a Copper, a Silver, 2 Estates and a Tournament.

Turn 2 - Arael81
A plays 3 Coppers.
A buys and gains a Silver.
A shuffles their deck.
A draws 5 cards.

Turn 3 - SG252
S plays a Tournament.
S draws a Copper.
S plays a Silver and 2 Coppers.
S buys and gains a Bandit Camp.
S draws 5 Coppers.

Turn 3 - Arael81
A plays 3 Coppers.
A buys and gains a Silver.
A draws 5 cards.

Turn 4 - SG252
S plays 5 Coppers.
S buys and gains a Stables.
S shuffles their deck.
S draws 3 Coppers, a Silver and an Estate.

Turn 4 - Arael81
A plays a Tournament.
A draws a card.
A plays a Silver and 4 Coppers.
A buys and gains a Bank.
A shuffles their deck.
A draws 5 cards.

Turn 5 - SG252
S plays a Silver and 3 Coppers.
S buys and gains a Bandit Camp.
S draws a Copper, 2 Estates, a Tournament and a Bandit Camp.

Turn 5 - Arael81
A plays a Silver and 2 Coppers.
A buys and gains a Tournament.
A draws 5 cards.

Turn 6 - SG252
S plays a Bandit Camp.
S draws a Copper.
S gains a Spoils.
S plays a Tournament.
S draws a Stables.
S plays a Stables.
S discards a Copper.
S shuffles their deck.
S draws 3 Coppers.
S plays 4 Coppers.
S buys and gains a Bandit Camp.
S draws a Copper, a Silver, an Estate, a Bandit Camp and a Spoils.

Turn 6 - Arael81
A plays a Bank and 4 Coppers.
A buys and gains a Bank.
A shuffles their deck.
A draws 5 cards.

Turn 7 - SG252
S plays a Bandit Camp.
S draws a Copper.
S gains a Spoils.
S plays a Silver, a Spoils and 2 Coppers.
S returns a Spoils to the Spoils pile.
S buys and gains a Bank.
S shuffles their deck.
S draws 3 Coppers, a Bandit Camp and a Spoils.

Turn 7 - Arael81
A plays a Tournament.
A draws a card.
A plays a Silver and 2 Coppers.
A buys and gains a Bandit Camp.
A draws 5 cards.

Turn 8 - SG252
S plays a Bandit Camp.
S draws an Estate.
S gains a Spoils.
S plays a Spoils and 3 Coppers.
S returns a Spoils to the Spoils pile.
S buys and gains a Gold.
S draws 3 Coppers, a Silver and a Bandit Camp.

Turn 8 - Arael81
A plays a Tournament.
A draws a card.
A plays a Bank and 4 Coppers.
A buys and gains a Province.
A shuffles their deck.
A draws 5 cards.

Turn 9 - SG252
S plays a Bandit Camp.
S draws an Estate.
S gains a Spoils.
S plays a Silver and 3 Coppers.
S buys and gains a Horn of Plenty.
S draws an Estate, a Bank, a Tournament, a Stables and a Bandit Camp.

Turn 9 - Arael81
A plays a Bank, a Silver and 2 Coppers.
A buys and gains a Province.
A draws 5 cards.

Turn 10 - SG252
S plays a Bandit Camp.
S draws a Copper.
S gains a Spoils.
S plays a Tournament.
A reveals a Province.
S plays a Stables.
S discards a Copper.
S shuffles their deck.
S draws 2 Coppers and a Spoils.
S plays a Spoils and 2 Coppers.
S returns a Spoils to the Spoils pile.
S plays a Bank.
S buys and gains a Province.
S draws 2 Coppers, a Silver, a Bandit Camp and a Spoils.

Turn 10 - Arael81
A plays a Bandit Camp.
A draws a card.
A gains a Spoils.
A plays a Tournament.
A reveals a Province.
A discards a Province.
A gains a Followers.
A draws a card.
A plays a Followers.
A draws 2 cards.
A gains an Estate.
S gains a Curse.
S discards 2 Coppers.
A plays a Bank, a Silver and 2 Coppers.
A buys and gains a Province.
A draws 5 cards.

Turn 11 - SG252
S plays a Bandit Camp.
S draws a Copper.
S gains a Spoils.
S plays a Silver, a Spoils and a Copper.
S returns a Spoils to the Spoils pile.
S buys and gains a Monument.
S draws a Copper, a Gold, an Estate, a Horn of Plenty and a Bandit Camp.

Turn 11 - Arael81
A plays a Tournament.
A shuffles their deck.
A draws a card.
A plays 4 Coppers.
A buys and gains a Bandit Camp.
A draws 5 cards.

Turn 12 - SG252
S plays a Bandit Camp.
S draws a Copper.
S gains a Spoils.
S plays 2 Coppers, a Gold and a Horn of Plenty.
S gains an Ironworks.
S buys and gains a Horn of Plenty.
S shuffles their deck.
S draws a Curse, an Estate, a Bank, a Tournament and a Spoils.

Turn 12 - Arael81
A plays a Bandit Camp.
A draws a card.
A gains a Spoils.
A plays 2 Coppers.
A buys and gains a Crossroads.
A draws 5 cards.

Turn 13 - SG252
S plays a Tournament.
A reveals a Province.
S plays a Spoils.
S returns a Spoils to the Spoils pile.
S plays a Bank.
S buys and gains a Monument.
S draws a Copper, a Silver, an Estate, a Bandit Camp and a Spoils.

Turn 13 - Arael81
A plays a Silver, a Spoils and a Copper.
A returns a Spoils to the Spoils pile.
A plays a Bank.
A buys and gains a Province.
A draws 5 cards.

Turn 14 - SG252
S plays a Bandit Camp.
S draws a Province.
S gains a Spoils.
S plays a Silver, a Spoils and a Copper.
S returns a Spoils to the Spoils pile.
S buys and gains a Stables.
S draws 2 Coppers, an Ironworks and 2 Bandit Camps.

Turn 14 - Arael81
A plays a Tournament.
A draws a card.
A plays a Followers.
A shuffles their deck.
A draws 2 cards.
A gains an Estate.
S gains a Curse.
S discards 2 Coppers.
A plays a Bank, a Silver and a Copper.
A buys and gains a Bank.
A draws 5 cards.

Turn 15 - SG252
S plays an Ironworks.
S gains a Monument.
S plays a Bandit Camp.
S draws a Spoils.
S gains a Spoils.
S plays a Bandit Camp.
S draws a Copper.
S gains a Spoils.
S plays a Spoils and a Copper.
S returns a Spoils to the Spoils pile.
S buys and gains a Monument.
S draws 2 Coppers, an Estate, a Horn of Plenty and a Stables.

Turn 15 - Arael81
A plays a Bandit Camp.
A draws a card.
A gains a Spoils.
A plays a Tournament.
A draws a card.
A plays a Crossroads.
A reveals a Spoils and 3 Coppers.
A plays 3 Coppers.
A buys and gains a Monument.
A draws 5 cards.

Turn 16 - SG252
S plays a Stables.
S discards a Copper.
S draws a Copper, a Gold and a Monument.
S plays a Monument.
S gets 1 VP.
S plays 2 Coppers, a Gold and a Horn of Plenty.
S gains a Duchy.
S trashes a Horn of Plenty.
S buys and gains a Duchy.
S shuffles their deck.
S draws a Curse, a Copper, a Monument, a Horn of Plenty and a Stables.

Turn 16 - Arael81
A plays a Bank and a Copper.
A buys and gains a Crossroads.
A draws 5 cards.

Turn 17 - SG252
S plays a Stables.
S discards a Copper.
S draws an Estate and 2 Spoils.
S plays a Monument.
S gets 1 VP.
S plays a Spoils.
S returns a Spoils to the Spoils pile.
S plays a Spoils.
S returns a Spoils to the Spoils pile.
S plays a Horn of Plenty.
S gains a Crossroads.
S buys and gains a Province.
S draws 2 Estates, a Bank, a Monument and a Bandit Camp.

Turn 17 - Arael81
A plays a Bandit Camp.
A draws a card.
A gains a Spoils.
A plays a Silver and 2 Coppers.
A buys and gains a Monument.
A shuffles their deck.
A draws 5 cards.

Turn 18 - SG252
S plays a Bandit Camp.
S draws a Copper.
S gains a Spoils.
S plays a Monument.
S gets 1 VP.
S plays a Bank and a Copper.
S buys and gains a Duchy.
S draws 3 Coppers, a Duchy and a Bandit Camp.

Turn 18 - Arael81
A plays a Bandit Camp.
A draws a card.
A gains a Spoils.
A plays a Crossroads.
A reveals a Bank, a Spoils, a Copper and a Crossroads.
A plays a Crossroads.
A reveals a Bank, a Spoils and a Copper.
A plays a Spoils and a Copper.
A returns a Spoils to the Spoils pile.
A plays a Bank.
A buys and gains a Duchy.
A draws 5 cards.

Turn 19 - SG252
S plays a Bandit Camp.
S draws a Copper.
S gains a Spoils.
S plays 4 Coppers.
S buys and gains an Estate.
S draws a Copper, a Monument, a Tournament, a Bandit Camp and a Spoils.

Turn 19 - Arael81
A plays a Tournament.
A draws a card.
A plays a Tournament.
A draws a card.
A plays a Bank, a Silver and a Copper.
A buys and gains a Province.
A draws 5 cards.

Turn 20 - SG252
S plays a Bandit Camp.
S draws a Monument.
S gains a Spoils.
S plays a Tournament.
S draws a Gold.
S plays a Monument.
S gets 1 VP.
S plays a Monument.
S gets 1 VP.
S buys and gains a Duchy.
S draws a Silver, a Duchy, a Province, an Ironworks and a Stables.

Turn 20 - Arael81
A plays a Spoils and a Copper.
A returns a Spoils to the Spoils pile.
A plays a Bank.
A buys and gains a Duchy.
A draws 5 cards.

Turn 21 - SG252
S plays a Stables.
S discards a Silver.
S shuffles their deck.
S draws a Curse, an Estate and a Duchy.
S plays an Ironworks.
S gains an Estate.
S draws a Copper.
S draws a Curse and 4 Coppers.

Turn 21 - Arael81
A plays a Followers.
A draws 2 cards.
A gains an Estate.
S gains a Curse.
S discards a Curse and a Copper.
A plays 2 Coppers.
A buys and gains a Crossroads.
A draws 5 cards.

Turn 22 - SG252
S plays 3 Coppers.
S buys and gains an Estate.
S draws a Copper, a Monument, a Stables and 2 Spoils.

Turn 22 - Arael81
A plays a Bandit Camp.
A draws a card.
A gains a Spoils.
A plays a Monument.
A gets 1 VP.
A plays a Silver and a Copper.
A buys and gains a Bandit Camp.
A shuffles their deck.
A draws 5 cards.

Turn 23 - SG252
S plays a Stables.
S discards a Copper.
S draws a Copper, a Monument and a Tournament.
S plays a Tournament.
A reveals a Province.
S plays a Monument.
S gets 1 VP.
S plays a Spoils.
S returns a Spoils to the Spoils pile.
S buys and gains a Duchy.
S draws a Gold, 2 Estates and 2 Duchies.

Turn 23 - Arael81
A plays a Tournament.
A reveals a Province.
A discards a Province.
A gains a Trusty Steed.
A draws a card.
A plays a Trusty Steed.
A draws 2 cards.
A plays a Silver, a Spoils and 2 Coppers.
A returns a Spoils to the Spoils pile.
A plays a Spoils.
A returns a Spoils to the Spoils pile.
A buys and gains a Province.
A draws 5 cards.

It finally happened. Since I have been posting losses, I had my first defeat to a player ranked lower than myself.  :'(

There are two setups in Dominion that I don't like, because in my opinion whoever gets to gain a particular card gets a significant (potentially game deciding) advantage over the other. One is Knights with no trashing and Dama Anna is the top knight. The other is as happened here, Tournament with no trashing and no other cursers. In these games Followers has the effect of helping to ruin both decks whilst giving a points advantage to whoever has it.

Apart from trashing all engine components are here, I think money is the right way to go. You cannot get rid of your starting cards and as Followers is definitely going to come into play, whether you get it or not your deck is going to gain a number of additional stop cards making any engine unreliable.

I don't want to write defeats off to luck, but I think my opponent was fortunate in being able to buy Banks on turns 4 and 6. Was there anything I could have done to try and come back from that?
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aku_chi

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Re: Posting losses in an attempt to get better.
« Reply #43 on: February 09, 2018, 03:43:17 pm »
+1

I don't understand the Bandit Camps or the pre-Province Horn of Plenty.  I would buy Stables on $5-7 until they were gone.  Let's assume you buy a Silver and two Tournaments and nothing but Stables.  A hand of Silver + 4 Copper buys a Province.  You only need three Stables to get there!  With four Stables, you are almost guaranteed to pair Tournament with Province.  Once someone takes Followers, the game will get pretty ugly, but I would 100% invest in draw up to that point.  From there, it seems like a Province race.  There isn't much opportunity to build.
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Mic Qsenoch

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Re: Posting losses in an attempt to get better.
« Reply #44 on: February 09, 2018, 04:19:08 pm »
+3

The player with Followers may have incentive to build just to shore up the lead and attack more consistently, there's certainly plenty of stuff to build with / towards, and Crossroads should play okay with Followers. Depends on how many Stables you have. This is likely to be a "win more" scenario, but could be worth a few percentage points. Not going to be deck drawing consistently, but still it doesn't look to me like you want your second Province the second time you hit $8.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2018, 04:20:48 pm by Mic Qsenoch »
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DG

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Re: Posting losses in an attempt to get better.
« Reply #45 on: February 09, 2018, 04:58:12 pm »
+1

I think the temple game should be temples. Sea hag hurts your own development so skip it if it isn't actually going to hurt much. Start this with armouries and maybe add universities once the deck is coming together.


As a general rule, if it's important to get the first province in a tournament game then you should be looking at turn 7 or 8. Buying the bandit camps means you get your province later.
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xyz123

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Re: Posting losses in an attempt to get better.
« Reply #46 on: February 09, 2018, 05:09:03 pm »
+1

The idea behind Bandit Camps was for the Spoils to be a cash boost to try to get an early Province. Clearly that was wrong as aku_chi's explanation of Stables and Tournament makes more sense now I think of it.

Edit - Adding that the Horn of Plenty was just trying something different. I figured I was already losing at that point, so I thought I might as well take a gamble.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2018, 05:14:33 pm by xyz123 »
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xyz123

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Re: Posting losses in an attempt to get better.
« Reply #47 on: February 10, 2018, 06:02:08 am »
+1




Provinces/Estates.

Code: [Select]
Game #11518621, rated.
SG252: 44.29
dank: 50.5

S starts with 7 Coppers and 3 Estates.
d starts with 7 Coppers and 3 Estates.
S shuffles their deck.
S draws 3 Coppers and 2 Estates.
d shuffles their deck.
d draws 5 cards.

Turn 1 - SG252
S plays 3 Coppers.
S buys and gains a Silver.
S draws 4 Coppers and an Estate.

Turn 1 - dank
d plays 2 Coppers.
d buys and gains a Candlestick Maker.
d draws 5 cards.

Turn 2 - SG252
S plays 4 Coppers.
S buys and gains a Remodel.
S shuffles their deck.
S draws 2 Coppers, a Silver and 2 Estates.

Turn 2 - dank
d plays 5 Coppers.
d buys and gains a Counterfeit.
d shuffles their deck.
d draws 5 cards.

Turn 3 - SG252
S plays a Silver and 2 Coppers.
S buys and gains a Secret Passage.
S draws 3 Coppers, an Estate and a Remodel.

Turn 3 - dank
d plays 4 Coppers.
d buys and gains a Remodel.
d draws 5 cards.

Turn 4 - SG252
S plays a Remodel.
S trashes an Estate.
S gains a Potion.
S plays 3 Coppers.
S buys and gains a Gear.
S shuffles their deck.
S draws 4 Coppers and an Estate.

Turn 4 - dank
d plays a Candlestick Maker.
d plays 2 Coppers.
d buys and gains a Gear.
d shuffles their deck.
d draws 5 cards.

Turn 5 - SG252
S plays 4 Coppers.
S buys and gains a Worker's Village.
S draws 2 Coppers, a Silver, a Remodel and a Potion.

Turn 5 - dank
d plays a Counterfeit.
d plays a Copper.
d plays a Copper again.
d trashes a Copper.
d plays 2 Coppers.
d buys and gains a Margrave.
d draws 5 cards.

Turn 6 - SG252
S plays a Silver, 2 Coppers and a Potion.
S buys and gains a Golem.
S shuffles their deck.
S draws 2 Coppers, an Estate, a Secret Passage and a Gear.

Turn 6 - dank
d plays 2 Coppers.
d buys and gains a Candlestick Maker.
d shuffles their deck.
d draws 5 cards.

Turn 7 - SG252
S plays a Gear.
S draws a Silver and a Remodel.
S sets an Estate and a Remodel aside with Gear.
S plays a Silver and 2 Coppers.
S buys and gains a Silver.
S draws 3 Coppers, a Potion and a Worker's Village.

Turn 7 - dank
d plays a Candlestick Maker.
d plays a Gear.
d draws 2 cards.
d sets a card aside with Gear.
d plays 4 Coppers.
d buys and gains a Margrave.
d draws 5 cards.

Turn 8 - SG252
S starts their turn.
S puts an Estate and a Remodel in hand (Gear).
S plays a Worker's Village.
S draws a Copper.
S plays a Remodel.
S trashes an Estate.
S gains a Worker's Village.
S plays 4 Coppers and a Potion.
S buys and gains a Golem.
S shuffles their deck.
S draws 2 Coppers, an Estate, a Golem and a Gear.

Turn 8 - dank
d starts their turn.
d puts a card in hand (Gear).
d plays a Candlestick Maker.
d plays a Remodel.
d trashes an Estate.
d gains a Worker's Village.
d plays a Counterfeit.
d plays a Copper.
d plays a Copper again.
d trashes a Copper.
d buys and gains a Worker's Village.
d buys a Quest.
d discards a Margrave.
d gains a Gold.
d shuffles their deck.
d draws 5 cards.

Turn 9 - SG252
S plays a Golem.
S reveals 3 Coppers, a Secret Passage, a Potion and a Worker's Village.
S discards 3 Coppers and a Potion.
S plays a Worker's Village.
S draws a Worker's Village.
S plays a Secret Passage.
S draws 2 Silvers.
S topdecks a Copper.
S plays a Worker's Village.
S draws a Golem.
S plays a Golem.
S reveals 3 Coppers and a Remodel.
S shuffles their deck.
S reveals 3 Coppers and a Potion.
S discards 6 Coppers and a Potion.
S plays a Remodel.
S trashes an Estate.
S gains a Worker's Village.
S plays a Gear.
S shuffles their deck.
S draws 2 Coppers.
S sets 2 Coppers aside with Gear.
S plays 2 Silvers and a Copper.
S buys and gains a Margrave.
S draws 4 Coppers and a Potion.

Turn 9 - dank
d plays a Margrave.
d draws 3 cards.
S draws a Worker's Village.
S discards 2 Coppers and a Potion.
d plays a Counterfeit.
d plays a Copper.
d plays a Copper again.
d trashes a Copper.
d plays a Copper.
d buys and gains a Worker's Village.
d buys a Quest.
d discards a Margrave.
d gains a Gold.
d draws 5 cards.

Turn 10 - SG252
S starts their turn.
S puts 2 Coppers in hand (Gear).
S plays a Worker's Village.
S shuffles their deck.
S draws a Worker's Village.
S plays a Worker's Village.
S draws a Remodel.
S plays a Remodel.
S trashes a Copper.
S gains a Candlestick Maker.
S plays 3 Coppers.
S buys and gains a Gear.
S draws 3 Coppers, a Silver and a Secret Passage.

Turn 10 - dank
d plays a Worker's Village.
d draws a card.
d plays a Worker's Village.
d draws a card.
d plays a Candlestick Maker.
d plays a Gear.
d draws 2 cards.
d plays a Remodel.
d trashes a Copper.
d gains a Candlestick Maker.
d plays a Gold and 2 Coppers.
d buys and gains a Margrave.
d shuffles their deck.
d draws 5 cards.

Turn 11 - SG252
S plays a Secret Passage.
S draws a Golem and a Worker's Village.
S topdecks a Copper.
S plays a Worker's Village.
S draws a Margrave.
S plays a Margrave.
S draws a Silver, a Golem and a Potion.
d draws a card.
d discards 2 other cards and a Candlestick Maker.
S plays a Golem.
S reveals a Copper.
S shuffles their deck.
S reveals 2 Coppers, a Remodel and a Gear.
S discards 3 Coppers.
S plays a Gear.
S draws a Worker's Village and a Candlestick Maker.
S sets a Worker's Village and a Golem aside with Gear.
S plays a Remodel.
S trashes a Copper.
S gains a Candlestick Maker.
S plays 2 Silvers, a Copper and a Potion.
S buys and gains a Margrave.
S shuffles their deck.
S draws a Copper, a Remodel, a Worker's Village, a Candlestick Maker and a Gear.

Turn 11 - dank
d plays a Worker's Village.
d draws a card.
d plays a Margrave.
d draws 3 cards.
S draws a Copper.
S discards 2 Coppers and a Remodel.
d plays a Candlestick Maker.
d plays a Margrave.
d draws 3 cards.
S draws a Margrave.
S discards a Candlestick Maker.
d plays a Counterfeit.
d plays a Copper.
d plays a Copper again.
d trashes a Copper.
d plays 2 Golds.
d buys and gains 2 Potions.
d buys a Quest.
d discards a Margrave.
d gains a Gold.
d draws 5 cards.

Turn 12 - SG252
S starts their turn.
S puts a Golem and a Worker's Village in hand (Gear).
S plays a Worker's Village.
S draws a Silver.
S plays a Margrave.
S draws a Copper, a Secret Passage and a Margrave.
d draws a card.
d discards 2 other cards and a Worker's Village.
S plays a Worker's Village.
S draws a Copper.
S plays a Golem.
S reveals a Copper, a Silver, a Golem, a Potion, a Worker's Village and a Candlestick Maker.
S discards a Copper, a Silver, a Golem and a Potion.
S plays a Candlestick Maker.
S plays a Worker's Village.
S shuffles their deck.
S draws a Copper.
S plays a Margrave.
S draws 2 Coppers and a Potion.
d shuffles their deck.
d draws a card.
d discards a Copper.
S plays a Secret Passage.
S draws a Silver and a Remodel.
S topdecks a Remodel.
S plays a Gear.
S draws a Golem and a Candlestick Maker.
S sets a Candlestick Maker and a Golem aside with Gear.
S plays 2 Silvers, 5 Coppers and a Potion.
S buys and gains a Gold and a Golem.
S shuffles their deck.
S draws a Silver, a Remodel, 2 Worker's Villages and a Margrave.

Turn 12 - dank
d plays a Worker's Village.
d draws a card.
d plays a Candlestick Maker.
d plays a Remodel.
d trashes an Estate.
d gains a Worker's Village.
d draws 5 cards.

Turn 13 - SG252
S starts their turn.
S puts a Golem and a Candlestick Maker in hand (Gear).
S plays a Worker's Village.
S draws a Gold.
S plays a Worker's Village.
S draws a Golem.
S plays a Golem.
S reveals a Copper, a Secret Passage and a Candlestick Maker.
S discards a Copper.
S plays a Candlestick Maker.
S plays a Secret Passage.
S draws a Copper and a Silver.
S topdecks a Copper.
S plays a Golem.
S reveals 2 Coppers, a Worker's Village and a Gear.
S discards 2 Coppers.
S plays a Worker's Village.
S draws a Copper.
S plays a Gear.
S draws a Golem and a Margrave.
S sets a Candlestick Maker and a Golem aside with Gear.
S plays a Margrave.
S shuffles their deck.
S draws 2 Coppers and a Potion.
d draws a card.
d discards 2 other cards and a Candlestick Maker.
S plays a Margrave.
S draws 2 Coppers.
d draws a card.
d discards a Gold.
S plays a Gold, 2 Silvers, 5 Coppers and a Potion.
S buys and gains a City and 2 Worker's Villages.
S shuffles their deck.
S draws 2 Silvers, a Golem, a Worker's Village and a Candlestick Maker.

Turn 13 - dank
d plays a Worker's Village.
d draws a card.
d plays a Margrave.
d draws 3 cards.
S draws a Worker's Village.
S discards 2 Silvers and a Candlestick Maker.
d plays a Candlestick Maker.
d plays a Gear.
d draws 2 cards.
d sets 2 cards aside with Gear.
d plays a Gold and a Potion.
d buys and gains a Golem.
d buys a Quest.
d discards a Margrave.
d gains a Gold.
d shuffles their deck.
d draws 5 cards.

Turn 14 - SG252
S starts their turn.
S puts a Golem and a Candlestick Maker in hand (Gear).
S plays a Candlestick Maker.
S plays a Worker's Village.
S draws a Margrave.
S plays a Worker's Village.
S draws a Margrave.
S plays a Golem.
S reveals 2 Coppers, a Remodel, a Potion and a City.
S discards 2 Coppers and a Potion.
S plays a City.
S draws a Golem.
S plays a Remodel.
S trashes a Margrave.
S gains a Margrave.
S plays a Margrave.
S draws a Copper, a Gold and a Secret Passage.
d draws a card.
d discards 2 other cards and a Gold.
S plays a Golem.
S reveals a Copper and 2 Worker's Villages.
S discards a Copper.
S plays a Worker's Village.
S draws a Gear.
S plays a Worker's Village.
S draws a Copper.
S plays a Secret Passage.
S shuffles their deck.
S draws a Potion and a Worker's Village.
S topdecks a Copper.
S plays a Worker's Village.
S draws a Silver.
S plays a Gear.
S draws a Copper and a Silver.
S sets a Golem and a Potion aside with Gear.
S plays a Gold, 2 Silvers and 2 Coppers.
S buys and gains a Gold and a Worker's Village.
S draws 3 Coppers, a Margrave and a Candlestick Maker.

Turn 14 - dank
d starts their turn.
d puts 2 cards in hand (Gear).
d plays a Worker's Village.
d draws a card.
d plays a Worker's Village.
d draws a card.
d plays a Candlestick Maker.
d plays a Margrave.
d draws 3 cards.
S shuffles their deck.
S draws a Worker's Village.
S discards 3 Coppers.
d plays a Candlestick Maker.
d plays a Margrave.
d draws 3 cards.
S draws a Gold.
S discards a Candlestick Maker.
d plays a Worker's Village.
d draws a card.
d plays a Worker's Village.
d draws a card.
d plays a Remodel.
d trashes an Estate.
d gains a Gear.
d plays 3 Golds, a Copper and a Potion.
d buys and gains a Province and a Golem.
d shuffles their deck.
d draws 5 cards.

Turn 15 - SG252
S starts their turn.
S puts a Golem and a Potion in hand (Gear).
S plays a Worker's Village.
S draws a Gold.
S plays a Golem.
S reveals a Worker's Village and a Gear.
S plays a Worker's Village.
S draws a Worker's Village.
S plays a Gear.
S draws a Worker's Village and a Candlestick Maker.
S sets 2 Worker's Villages aside with Gear.
S plays a Margrave.
S draws a Copper, a Golem and a City.
d draws a card.
d discards 2 other cards and a Potion.
S plays a Candlestick Maker.
S plays a Golem.
S reveals a Copper, a Remodel and a Worker's Village.
S discards a Copper.
S plays a Worker's Village.
S draws a Worker's Village.
S plays a Remodel.
S trashes a Potion.
S gains a Gold.
S plays a Worker's Village.
S draws a Secret Passage.
S plays a City.
S draws a Silver and a Margrave.
S plays a Margrave.
S shuffles their deck.
S draws a Copper, a Silver and a Golem.
d draws a card.
d discards a Candlestick Maker.
S plays a Golem.
S reveals 3 Coppers, a Gold and a Candlestick Maker.
S discards 3 Coppers and a Gold.
S plays a Candlestick Maker.
S plays a Secret Passage.
S shuffles their deck.
S draws a Copper and a Gold.
S topdecks a Copper.
S plays 3 Golds, 2 Silvers and 2 Coppers.
S buys and gains a Province and a City.
S shuffles their deck.
S draws 3 Coppers, a Gold and a City.

Turn 15 - dank
d plays a Worker's Village.
d draws a card.
d plays a Candlestick Maker.
d plays a Golem.
d reveals 2 Golds, a Province, a Potion, a Worker's Village, a Counterfeit and a Gear.
d discards 2 Golds, a Province, a Potion and a Counterfeit.
d plays a Worker's Village.
d draws a card.
d plays a Gear.
d draws 2 cards.
d plays a Worker's Village.
d draws a card.
d plays a Golem.
d reveals a Gold, a Worker's Village and a Gear.
d discards a Gold.
d plays a Worker's Village.
d draws a card.
d plays a Gear.
d draws 2 cards.
d plays a Candlestick Maker.
d plays a Margrave.
d shuffles their deck.
d draws 3 cards.
S draws a Province.
S discards 2 Coppers and a Province.
d plays a Margrave.
d draws 3 cards.
S draws a Worker's Village.
S discards a Copper.
d plays a Candlestick Maker.
d plays a Margrave.
d draws 3 cards.
S draws a Margrave.
S discards a Gold.
d plays a Remodel.
d trashes a Gold.
d gains a Province.
d plays a Counterfeit.
d plays a Copper.
d plays a Copper again.
d trashes a Copper.
d plays 2 Golds, a Copper and 2 Potions.
d buys and gains 2 Provinces.
d shuffles their deck.
d draws 5 cards.

Turn 16 - SG252
S starts their turn.
S puts 2 Worker's Villages in hand (Gear).
S plays a Worker's Village.
S draws a Copper.
S plays a Worker's Village.
S draws a Margrave.
S plays a Worker's Village.
S draws a Worker's Village.
S plays a Worker's Village.
S draws a City.
S plays a Margrave.
S draws a Silver, a Gold and a Remodel.
d draws a card.
d discards 2 other cards and a Gold.
S plays a City.
S draws 2 Golems.
S plays a Golem.
S reveals a Copper and 2 Worker's Villages.
S discards a Copper.
S plays a Worker's Village.
S draws a Silver.
S plays a Worker's Village.
S draws a Candlestick Maker.
S plays a Candlestick Maker.
S plays a Golem.
S reveals a Golem, a Candlestick Maker and a Gear.
S discards a Golem.
S plays a Candlestick Maker.
S plays a Gear.
S draws a Gold and a Secret Passage.
S plays a City.
S shuffles their deck.
S draws a Copper and a Gold.
S plays a Margrave.
S draws 2 Coppers and a Golem.
d draws a card.
d discards a Gold.
S plays a Secret Passage.
S draws a Copper and a Province.
S topdecks a Remodel.
S plays a Golem.
S reveals a Remodel.
S plays a Remodel.
S trashes a Silver.
S gains a Duchy.
S plays 3 Golds, a Silver and 5 Coppers.
S buys and gains 4 Duchies.
S shuffles their deck.
S draws 2 Coppers, a Silver, a Secret Passage and a Gear.

Turn 16 - dank
d plays a Worker's Village.
d draws a card.
d plays a Worker's Village.
d draws a card.
d plays a Margrave.
d draws 3 cards.
S draws a Remodel.
S discards 2 Coppers and a Remodel.
d plays a Remodel.
d trashes a Potion.
d gains a Duchy.
d draws 5 cards.

Turn 17 - SG252
S plays a Secret Passage.
S draws a Duchy and a Gear.
S topdecks a Duchy.
S plays a Gear.
S draws a Duchy and a Margrave.
S sets a Margrave and a Gear aside with Gear.
S plays a Silver.
S buys and gains an Estate.
S draws a Gold, a Duchy, a Golem, a City and a Candlestick Maker.

Turn 17 - dank
d plays a Candlestick Maker.
d plays a Gear.
d draws 2 cards.
d sets 2 cards aside with Gear.
d draws 5 cards.

Turn 18 - SG252
S starts their turn.
S puts a Margrave and a Gear in hand (Gear).
S plays a Candlestick Maker.
S plays a City.
S draws a Copper and a Golem.
S plays a Golem.
S reveals a Duchy, a Province, a Margrave and a Candlestick Maker.
S discards a Duchy and a Province.
S plays a Margrave.
S draws a Duchy and 2 Worker's Villages.
d draws a card.
d discards 2 other cards and a Gold.
S plays a Candlestick Maker.
S plays a Worker's Village.
S draws a Gold.
S plays a Worker's Village.
S draws a Worker's Village.
S plays a Worker's Village.
S draws a Gold.
S plays a Golem.
S reveals a Copper, a City and a Worker's Village.
S discards a Copper.
S plays a Worker's Village.
S draws a Worker's Village.
S plays a City.
S draws a Copper and a Golem.
S plays a Worker's Village.
S draws a Worker's Village.
S plays a Worker's Village.
S draws a Duchy.
S plays a Golem.
S shuffles their deck.
S reveals 3 Coppers, a Silver, an Estate, a Duchy, a Province, a Remodel and a Secret Passage.
S discards 3 Coppers, a Silver, an Estate, a Duchy and a Province.
S plays a Secret Passage.
S shuffles their deck.
S draws an Estate and a Duchy.
S topdecks an Estate.
S plays a Remodel.
S trashes a Gear.
S gains a Duchy.
S plays a Margrave.
S draws 2 Coppers and a Duchy.
d draws a card.
d discards a Gear.
S plays 3 Golds and 4 Coppers.
S buys and gains an Estate, a Duchy and a Province.
S shuffles their deck.
S draws a Copper, a Silver, an Estate, a Province and a Worker's Village.

Turn 18 - dank
d starts their turn.
d puts 2 cards in hand (Gear).
d plays a Worker's Village.
d shuffles their deck.
d draws a card.
d plays a Golem.
d reveals a Copper, 2 Golds, a Province, a Potion, a Margrave and a Candlestick Maker.
d discards a Copper, 2 Golds, a Province and a Potion.
d plays a Margrave.
d draws 3 cards.
S draws a Copper.
S discards a Copper, an Estate and a Province.
d plays a Candlestick Maker.
d plays a Golem.
d reveals a Remodel and a Candlestick Maker.
d plays a Candlestick Maker.
d plays a Remodel.
d trashes a Gold.
d gains a Province.
d plays a Margrave.
d draws 3 cards.
S draws a Golem.
S discards a Copper.
d plays a Worker's Village.
d draws a card.
d plays a Worker's Village.
d draws a card.
d plays a Candlestick Maker.
d plays a Margrave.
d shuffles their deck.
d draws 3 cards.
S draws a Gold.
S discards a Silver.
d plays a Worker's Village.
d draws a card.
d plays a Gear.
d draws 2 cards.
d plays a Counterfeit.
d plays a Gold.
d plays a Gold again.
d trashes a Gold.
d plays a Gold and a Potion.
d buys and gains 3 Estates and a Province.
d shuffles their deck.
d draws 5 cards.

Not having a good run at the moment.

My opponent and myself played the engine quite differently but it was an evenly matched game. As trashing is slow, I thought that Golem could be useful here to reach into the deck for actions. Gear and Secret Passage can help set up a turn to be able to do that.

I think my main mistake here might have been in the greening phase. I think the engine I built was more resilient to greening, but I didn't realise that until my opponent started stalling more than me. If I had known that earlier I could have played the end game differently. At one point he had 3 Provinces to my 1, so I started going heavily on Duchies as I felt draining the Province pile would play into his hands. Had I stuck with Provinces I think I would have caught up when he started stalling.

I lost the game because I left two Provinces on the table at the end of one of my turns. My opponent's engine had failed to go off on his previous two turns and if he couldn't gain both Provinces than I should have been in a position to win on my next go. However, this time his engine fired and he got both of them.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2018, 06:03:59 am by xyz123 »
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dedicateddan

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Re: Posting losses in an attempt to get better.
« Reply #48 on: February 10, 2018, 08:19:02 am »
+1

Lost Arts + Gear is really, really good.

It’s going to build up much faster than golem, maybe by 3-4 turns.
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DG

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Re: Posting losses in an attempt to get better.
« Reply #49 on: February 10, 2018, 01:10:27 pm »
+1

Dominion isn't just about buying the right cards, you also need to buy them in the right order. In this case, it is easier to use lost arts on gear to bring remodel into play than it is to use remodel to buy lost arts. Golem solves some problems in Dominion but those problems are not really present in this kingdom once you have lost arts on gear and promoted cities.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2018, 01:19:03 pm by DG »
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