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Author Topic: M113: sufjan stevens (OH THE WORLD IS A MESS)  (Read 189723 times)

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faust

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« Reply #400 on: February 16, 2018, 12:10:17 pm »

Faust -  says clems reads list allows him to jump on all wagons. (I disagree completely says cuzz and pps are slightly scummy, null reads TWM and Teproc, and gives a bad reason to vote for galz, townreads everyone else. He's new, not a great reads list but much less scummy than Space's)
Given that the wagons at the time were Cuzz, PPS and Galzria, I find it hard to see where you disagree with me.
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iguanaiguana

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« Reply #401 on: February 16, 2018, 12:13:52 pm »

Faust,  just no. DatSwan, Cuzz and PPS are townie.
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Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

faust

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« Reply #402 on: February 16, 2018, 12:14:39 pm »

I'll actually refrain from commenting on the Space stuff just yet because I'd like to hear their reaction.

PPE: 1
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mcmcsalot

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« Reply #403 on: February 16, 2018, 12:15:46 pm »

Faust -  says clems reads list allows him to jump on all wagons. (I disagree completely says cuzz and pps are slightly scummy, null reads TWM and Teproc, and gives a bad reason to vote for galz, townreads everyone else. He's new, not a great reads list but much less scummy than Space's)
Given that the wagons at the time were Cuzz, PPS and Galzria, I find it hard to see where you disagree with me.

Its more that I disagree with the intention. Clems reads list didn't feel to me like a "gotta keep my options open reads list". Felt more like a "my reads fall in line with what the general consensus is" which isn't really a scumtell from a new player.
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faust

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« Reply #404 on: February 16, 2018, 12:16:09 pm »

Faust,  just no. DatSwan, Cuzz and PPS are townie.
If this refers to my post right before that, then I did not intend to call them scummy there.
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faust

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« Reply #405 on: February 16, 2018, 12:16:47 pm »

Faust -  says clems reads list allows him to jump on all wagons. (I disagree completely says cuzz and pps are slightly scummy, null reads TWM and Teproc, and gives a bad reason to vote for galz, townreads everyone else. He's new, not a great reads list but much less scummy than Space's)
Given that the wagons at the time were Cuzz, PPS and Galzria, I find it hard to see where you disagree with me.

Its more that I disagree with the intention. Clems reads list didn't feel to me like a "gotta keep my options open reads list". Felt more like a "my reads fall in line with what the general consensus is" which isn't really a scumtell from a new player.
It's a scumtell in that it would be a towntell if they wouldn't.
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mcmcsalot

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« Reply #406 on: February 16, 2018, 12:27:23 pm »

Faust,  just no. DatSwan, Cuzz and PPS are townie.
Well cuzz and datswan are definitely not the most town players, just not good day one lynches when Space and PPS are around. On that note:
Snip
I gave a reason. Just because I don't have time to write an essay for evertrhing I think and do doesn't mean I'm not playing thoughtfully.
Literally
Vote: clemens
And
Why is SC posting a list which would allow him to jump onto any of the wagons more skummy then LL saying “i will go on any wagon to get a lynch through” ?

I am not saying i think LL is a good case, but the SC case seems really fast and forced. All these people were on Galz and then that wagon gets up and people jump off for some pretty weak reasons. Given the reasons on Galz were weak too - but the quick Galz ramp followed by the quick SC ramp makes me think skum driven.

I think LL is scummy and his defense of Clemmy was scummy so that made me feel Ok about a clement vote
Which is bad man, I actually could get behind your Lalight vote if I wasn't so convinced by my Space case and to a lesser degree my pps case.

Also you previously have said that for the most part you think the most scum have voted for galz which other than teproc and faust who are on the clemons wagon now are PPS(ding) TWM so not scummy, and SirClem. So do you think Lalight, Clem, PPS are scum or that scum is bussing clem?
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mcmcsalot

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« Reply #407 on: February 16, 2018, 12:31:49 pm »

Faust -  says clems reads list allows him to jump on all wagons. (I disagree completely says cuzz and pps are slightly scummy, null reads TWM and Teproc, and gives a bad reason to vote for galz, townreads everyone else. He's new, not a great reads list but much less scummy than Space's)
Given that the wagons at the time were Cuzz, PPS and Galzria, I find it hard to see where you disagree with me.

Its more that I disagree with the intention. Clems reads list didn't feel to me like a "gotta keep my options open reads list". Felt more like a "my reads fall in line with what the general consensus is" which isn't really a scumtell from a new player.
It's a scumtell in that it would be a towntell if they wouldn't.

Sorry can you clarify I'm not understanding what you are saying.
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Robz888

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« Reply #408 on: February 16, 2018, 12:35:56 pm »

Space could actually be scum here.

Vote: Space
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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« Reply #409 on: February 16, 2018, 01:29:40 pm »

Just to be clear about my vote, I think you are all scum. I'm not getting a town read on anyone at all. So, I'm pretty happy voting Galzria but if we need a final vote to push something through at the end of the day I'll be glad to add a hammer to my collection.
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Teproc

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« Reply #410 on: February 16, 2018, 02:48:56 pm »

mcmc, it's nice that you quote votes and call them bad votes because or "garbage reasons" but your case on Space describes typical town!Space behaviour, so...

I could go for pps though.
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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« Reply #411 on: February 16, 2018, 02:57:49 pm »

In fact I didn't find your original statement to be scummy but this doubling down of "my vote is just as lose and weak as anyone else's" seems like a scummy reaction to getting more heat than you expected. vote: PPS
Is there more of a case on PPS than this? Because this seems weak compared to other scummy things that happened.

Which are? I'm reviewing the clemons stuff now, and the galz stuff. Its two wagons of three people that you and teproc have bounced between.
Well there's these, but also Cuzz and DatSwan have both acted scummier than PPS in my memory. Though I don't exactly recall what about DatSwan it was that I found scummy. Maybe I'm mixing something up.

You didn’t like my standpoint on the ii thing at the beginning
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SpaceAnemone

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« Reply #412 on: February 16, 2018, 03:11:37 pm »

Could see scum in Space/Lalight. Especially Space due to this:

Hmm.. I don't think PPS is a strong D1 vote, because he is actually quite likely to make scumslips if he lives long enough. And I think I may still even be voting for him :-/

Catching up on more recent posts tells me I need to re-read Galz, but in the meantime I'll go with vote: robz, which is more gut than usual for me.

followed by
I've spent most of the last little while making a reads list:

Robz888 -- Yeah, I don't like his posts much. He supports Galz's awful logic, and then shrugs off being called on it, and doesn't do much else of content.

snip

pingpongsam -- Like I just said, he'll scumslip for us if we let him be for a while. Especially in a setup like this :-)

Galzria -- Baaad probability stuff. I agree interactions are good, but so are accurate priors. Makes him less good at probabilities, rather than more scummy. I don't think I find his text all that bad.

snip

I'm happy leaving my vote on Robz for now, but I don't have a high degree of confidence in anything right now becuase this is D1, and anemones are not known for their strong reads...

I can see zero things wrong with my statements :-( I had a negative-but-unformed opinion on Robz, so I voted for him because I didn't have negative feelings about other people's play, and couldn't rightly pooh-pooh the idea of voting for PPS when I was still RVSing at him. And yes, I'd speed-read to catch up, so I was aware a number of votes had gone to Galz and that I should look there, but I hadn't got any feeling either way towards Galz at that point.

Then later that night, I went through everyone one by one, because then I get a much better overview than if I try to remember who said what in a single pass. That meant I was able to pinpoint a bit better what had pinged me about things Robz had said.

Back to not particularly wanting to vote for PPS, I just think lynching him without strong evidence is a missed opportunity, because he is quite careless with technical talk, so the longer we leave him alive, the more likely we are to catch him out with what he says. That's not true for other people, so we're more likely to have more information in the game if, all other things being equal, we lynch the non-PPS people under suspicion. The fact that I'm over-explaining it probably blows it ridiculously out of proportion in terms of number of thread-words typed compared to how useful an information-processing thing it is. But you seem worried it's a partner tell, when it's more of a have-been-a-PPS-partner-in-my-first-scum-game tell.
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Cuzz

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« Reply #413 on: February 16, 2018, 03:12:15 pm »

Just to be clear about my vote, I think you are all scum. I'm not getting a town read on anyone at all. So, I'm pretty happy voting Galzria but if we need a final vote to push something through at the end of the day I'll be glad to add a hammer to my collection.

Oh good heavens Vote: pps
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SpaceAnemone

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« Reply #414 on: February 16, 2018, 03:38:02 pm »

Space Case

crimes against conditional probability

I'm in the process of catching up from having gotten a bit behind over the course of today. I have very little will to engage with the kind-of-negative argument about how to interpret Iguana's statement and various reactions to it. But I did enjoy the phrase from Cuzz that I'm quoting above :-)
Basically says I don't want to comment on the iguana stuff. Slight ATE but end result is deciding not to engage in discussion about what and who could be scum due to how they reacted to iguna's post.

I think it's kind of dismissive of you to characterize my statement about not wanting to engage in hostility as "ATE". As I said somewhere earlier, arguing and being aggressive are absolutely "ATE" in my book, at least as much as anything designed to bring up feelings of pity, or whatever you'd classify "normal" looked-down-upon ATE as.

In all honesty, I am way less likely to read closely and form opinions on content if someone comes across as angry or uncivil (around here or IRL). So what you read as ATE I meant as "here's a bias I'm aware of, which I'm stating to make it easier for people to take my reads and opinions into account".

The setup is a bit limiting in terms of allowing setup discussion, so those of us who love cold hard figures are at more of a disadvantage than with the more setuppy games.

I'd quite like to steer the conversation to something that's less tedious than people vaguely talking past each other or arguing for numbers vs reads. Unfortunately, the other interesting thing to pick up on in recent posts is the comment about scum-team probabilities, and I'm not going to make myself very popular for giving thoughts on that and not on current in-game players.

Though chances are that if we rank the posters in frequency order, the set that is least-present is probably not the scum team. That holds especially if I've already managed to slide all the way down the post count rankings :-P
Typical Space looking toward setup to lean on Day 1(no problems) but follows that up with another "I want to steer the conversation elsewhere" and "unfortunately what I want to talk about isn't super current reads related and more theoretical".

Naah, that was more "hey, am I not being awesome and grown-up knowing that these interesting things that I'm actually feeling all excited about are things that you guys want to read about almost as much as I want to read people being snippy at one another?".

Space has only been scum once before to my recollection, really feels like over explanation about lack of current reads/meta discussion even though that is normal from Space.

Um... my sig lists the first three times, albeit in a rather tiny font size. Pretty sure I was scum in Lost, which I don't think is one of the ones listed.. so that makes at least 4 times. I need to update the sig, though, because it's kind of out of date. I was a super-awesome as mafia the first time, and then I've sucked ever since, though you're welcome to read and not just take my word for it :-P
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SirClemens

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« Reply #415 on: February 16, 2018, 03:41:11 pm »

No person I would not lynch is on the table, so I am flexible with my vote. I might not be there for the deadline, but I can post at least ~9 hours before the deadline.

PPE: 1
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Cuzz

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« Reply #416 on: February 16, 2018, 03:47:04 pm »

what does ATE mean?
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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« Reply #417 on: February 16, 2018, 03:50:16 pm »

what does ATE mean?

Appeal to Emotion. I don't agree with Space that being aggressive qualifies as that, but I do agree that it can get just as unpleasant.

It is also not incredibly relevant to the game, but that's fine.

I don't get this Space case at all, in Lost they hid a lot more behind her "don't like reads" meta. Granted, there is incentive to change it up, but it's not that easy (see also: pps and setups).
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iguanaiguana

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« Reply #418 on: February 16, 2018, 03:53:12 pm »

I could vote Space but what if they are town? I'd be bummed.
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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« Reply #419 on: February 16, 2018, 03:54:43 pm »

I could vote Space but what if they are town? I'd be bummed.

Is this a bit you're doing this game ? Because I'm getting tired with it. I have no idea where you stand on anything.
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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« Reply #420 on: February 16, 2018, 03:55:05 pm »

Here's the last bit of mcmc's case on me, which I think is worth splitting out because my reply is actually relevant to the game at large and not just explaining stuff to mcmc:

Already mentioned this but scum reads robz for supporting galz awful logic (which they hedged later by saying galz logic wasn't indicative of scum).

I really don't think this behaviour looks good for Robz, and you trying to claim it makes me look scummy doesn't look great for you either.

Galz made a defense of iguana based on a faulty but perhaps tricky-for-everyone-to-grasp premise that scum and town are equally likely alignments.

Swan and faust immediately point out that there are issues with this logic within the following four posts.

Robz came along 36 posts later to say that he agrees with Galz, without commenting at all on the intervening discrediting stuff.

Then when was eventually challenged about Galz, he blew it off with his response at #153, in which he pretty much blows it off as having seen an argument that agreed with his own opinion, so didn't actually read/consider it. That just doesn't feel right. I think it's a smidge more likely to come from a scum player taking hold of useful town-provided opinion than it is for a town player trying to puzzle things out for themself.
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mcmcsalot

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« Reply #421 on: February 16, 2018, 04:11:47 pm »

Space Case

crimes against conditional probability

I'm in the process of catching up from having gotten a bit behind over the course of today. I have very little will to engage with the kind-of-negative argument about how to interpret Iguana's statement and various reactions to it. But I did enjoy the phrase from Cuzz that I'm quoting above :-)
Basically says I don't want to comment on the iguana stuff. Slight ATE but end result is deciding not to engage in discussion about what and who could be scum due to how they reacted to iguna's post.

I think it's kind of dismissive of you to characterize my statement about not wanting to engage in hostility as "ATE". As I said somewhere earlier, arguing and being aggressive are absolutely "ATE" in my book, at least as much as anything designed to bring up feelings of pity, or whatever you'd classify "normal" looked-down-upon ATE as.

In all honesty, I am way less likely to read closely and form opinions on content if someone comes across as angry or uncivil (around here or IRL). So what you read as ATE I meant as "here's a bias I'm aware of, which I'm stating to make it easier for people to take my reads and opinions into account".
I'm not trying to be dismissive rather quite the opposite. I didn't think the discourse surrounding the iguana post was hostile at all, it was simply people taking sides and then reacting to how those sides were taken and what that might indicate in terms of reads with a little "best play" discourse thrown in. So when I say you are using ATE to not discuss any of the posts relating to that I mean you are using your personality (consistently being level headed and disliking hostility, good stuff) to not have to generate reads or discuss the first major discourse of the game. Sure it could be just town!you doing town!you things, but it benefits scum!you in a way I find suspicions.

The setup is a bit limiting in terms of allowing setup discussion, so those of us who love cold hard figures are at more of a disadvantage than with the more setuppy games.

I'd quite like to steer the conversation to something that's less tedious than people vaguely talking past each other or arguing for numbers vs reads. Unfortunately, the other interesting thing to pick up on in recent posts is the comment about scum-team probabilities, and I'm not going to make myself very popular for giving thoughts on that and not on current in-game players.

Though chances are that if we rank the posters in frequency order, the set that is least-present is probably not the scum team. That holds especially if I've already managed to slide all the way down the post count rankings :-P
Typical Space looking toward setup to lean on Day 1(no problems) but follows that up with another "I want to steer the conversation elsewhere" and "unfortunately what I want to talk about isn't super current reads related and more theoretical".
Naah, that was more "hey, am I not being awesome and grown-up knowing that these interesting things that I'm actually feeling all excited about are things that you guys want to read about almost as much as I want to read people being snippy at one another?".
This really hits on the crux of my case and yes I think it is exactly as you described. Just exchange "awesome and grown-up" with "scum and self aware to the point that I feel the need to give a reason for acting like myself". I personally love discussing scum-team probabilities, post count based cases, pretty much anything that can be discussed and extrapolated to create a case is pro town because it either A) gives us a good case to break down or B) gives us a good idea of what the player making the case is thinking. You have decided to self censor and rob us of any of those helpful things with a scummy "probably nobody wants to hear about the things I want to talk about". In the past I have not found you the person to need to make those statements, you are confident in your more analytical view of the game and you lean into to be pro-town.


Space has only been scum once before to my recollection, really feels like over explanation about lack of current reads/meta discussion even though that is normal from Space.
Um... my sig lists the first three times, albeit in a rather tiny font size. Pretty sure I was scum in Lost, which I don't think is one of the ones listed.. so that makes at least 4 times. I need to update the sig, though, because it's kind of out of date. I was a super-awesome as mafia the first time, and then I've sucked ever since, though you're welcome to read and not just take my word for it :-P
Ah well then it's not that you are new to being scum and struggling with it, but luckily my argument is that you are quite unlike town!you that I remember, not similar to scum!you that I remember, the rest of my case still stands.
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

iguanaiguana

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« Reply #422 on: February 16, 2018, 04:25:40 pm »


1. Robz888 - seems kinda town. I don't really buy the "leaning hard into his lackluster quote" as scum from him. I don't think his play has been that bad for the current F.ds meta where no one cares except McMc.

2. DatSwan sauce - I dunno I knew his alignment a few times when he was scum and saw little things he did as scum that were kinda clumsy and luckily people didn't pick up on them. At the same time I've seen him be clumsy town and sorta townslip his town mindset. And then people vote him anyway for the carelessness. Here I'm seeing careless town DatSwan, not clumsy scum DatSwan. This dude is gunna help us win.

3. faust - I'm not gunna just read him as town yet but Faust has not been scummy enough to lynch on D1.

4. SirClemens - Pretty null, but the way that people are defending a big bag of null makes me worry that he's scum and his team is trying to keep him alive. Great lynch choice!

5. mcmcsalot - If we lynch him, it would be like "Oh dang, he worked so hard and then we just lynched him." If he was scum, we'd all feel really good. But probably he's town so let's not do that.

6. Teproc - Just like Faust except from France.

7. pingpongsam - Dude was approaching the game from a town frame of mind. The way he was like "Iguana's long division method is null and void" comes from a town frame of mind. Scum doesn't think of that kinda stuff. Who care if some of his votes have been careless or bad when he is giving off town tells from his fundamental approach to the game?

8. Galzria - Dunno. But I leaned a little more towny because of the way that other people were calling him scum for kinda crappy reasons. It was like scum wanted him dead.

9. iguanaiguana - thankfully he could IC himself this game, otherwise he was gunna get lynched for sure in this game packed full of superstars.

10. Cuzz - Just like Cuzz in M100. Town frame of mind up in his head.

11. The_Wine_Merchant - Null. Can't remember him much.

12. SpaceAnemone - Yeah they could be scum. They're playing a bit defensively; their votes aren't great. I could vote here but for some reason I just don't like mislynching Space and I'm not feeling it like super really strongly that they are scum. I do think that McMc is right, they're being a bit different than normal. But maybe that's because this is a hardcore reads based game so far.

13. LaLight - this is my favorite lynch because I think he's been insincere and a bit opportunistic. I could make the case, but it would take me like two hours because I'm slow. Gross.

Furthermore: I don't really want to lynch Teproc, Galzria, Faust, McMc, or Robz because all of them are superstars and none of them have been super scummy today. If they are all town, that's great! Most likely prolly one is scum, maybe 2, but I have no clue which.

Furthermore: POSSIBLY one of my town frame of mind people: Cuzz, PPS, DatSwan, McMc, is just doing a good job of faking it. If so, I think we can catch them by their voting patterns etc. later on.

So I would lynch: LaLight, Clemens, Space, TWM - in that order I guess.

I could vote Space but what if they are town? I'd be bummed.

Is this a bit you're doing this game ? Because I'm getting tired with it. I have no idea where you stand on anything.

Is the above good enough for you? I am time limited this game, that's why I am not fully fleshing out all my thoughts and supporting everything I say with quotes and stuff.
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Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

mcmcsalot

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« Reply #423 on: February 16, 2018, 04:35:32 pm »

Here's the last bit of mcmc's case on me, which I think is worth splitting out because my reply is actually relevant to the game at large and not just explaining stuff to mcmc:

Already mentioned this but scum reads robz for supporting galz awful logic (which they hedged later by saying galz logic wasn't indicative of scum).

I really don't think this behaviour looks good for Robz, and you trying to claim it makes me look scummy doesn't look great for you either.

Galz made a defense of iguana based on a faulty but perhaps tricky-for-everyone-to-grasp premise that scum and town are equally likely alignments.

Swan and faust immediately point out that there are issues with this logic within the following four posts.

Robz came along 36 posts later to say that he agrees with Galz, without commenting at all on the intervening discrediting stuff.

Then when was eventually challenged about Galz, he blew it off with his response at #153, in which he pretty much blows it off as having seen an argument that agreed with his own opinion, so didn't actually read/consider it. That just doesn't feel right. I think it's a smidge more likely to come from a scum player taking hold of useful town-provided opinion than it is for a town player trying to puzzle things out for themself.

I think you are misrepresenting what robz did. First Robz came out and said Iguana was town. Then Galz made his probability post and came to the conclusion scum was unlikely to defend scum!iguana so iguana was more likely to be town. Robz said he essentially agreed with galzria and when asked why he said scum's most likely reaction to iguana's post was a frustrated "this proves nothing". So put together robz town read of iguana, and robz thought that scum is likely to call iguana scummy for the post robz agrees he doesn't think scum would defend iguana. Reading quickly and saying he essentially agrees (something town!robz is more likely to do than scum!robz) I absolutely get him agreeing with galz.

Your thought that scum!robz is more likely to read a post quickly and agree with it and then "blow it off" by saying:
Yeah, mcmc got it. Sorry, I guess I read Galz wrong, or too quickly.

I think iguana is town, so "how would scum react to scum iguana" isn't really a scenario that matters to me.
Which is essentially a yep read a little too fast, meant to say I agree with the end result being a town iguana doesn't track. Why do you think scum!robz is more likely to read galz post quickly and agree, what does scum!robz benefit from agreeing at all. Versus the idea that town!robz read it quickly because he's not reading everything super carefully and is getting down more generic "this guy is town" posts.


To cap this off as I'm not like super convinced of a town!robz narrative, mainly I find this thought by you to be scum generated as I don't see how town!you thinks robz agreement with galz and subsequent posts really warrant a vote. I think by how you made your reads list you are sitting on robz while your partner or partners push one of the more primary wagons and you are leaving the opportunity to join if needed all while not making much of any case anywhere else.
Logged
Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

Galzria

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« Reply #424 on: February 16, 2018, 04:51:50 pm »

Here's the last bit of mcmc's case on me, which I think is worth splitting out because my reply is actually relevant to the game at large and not just explaining stuff to mcmc:

Already mentioned this but scum reads robz for supporting galz awful logic (which they hedged later by saying galz logic wasn't indicative of scum).

I really don't think this behaviour looks good for Robz, and you trying to claim it makes me look scummy doesn't look great for you either.

Galz made a defense of iguana based on a faulty but perhaps tricky-for-everyone-to-grasp premise that scum and town are equally likely alignments.

Swan and faust immediately point out that there are issues with this logic within the following four posts.

Robz came along 36 posts later to say that he agrees with Galz, without commenting at all on the intervening discrediting stuff.

Then when was eventually challenged about Galz, he blew it off with his response at #153, in which he pretty much blows it off as having seen an argument that agreed with his own opinion, so didn't actually read/consider it. That just doesn't feel right. I think it's a smidge more likely to come from a scum player taking hold of useful town-provided opinion than it is for a town player trying to puzzle things out for themself.

Space, relevant or not here - my premise is NOT wrong. Every single player, in relation to every other player, has equal chance of being scum or town. It is NOT, as you have continuously attempted to frame it, that every player is equally likely to be town or scum.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20
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