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Author Topic: M113: sufjan stevens (OH THE WORLD IS A MESS)  (Read 189683 times)

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Robz888

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« Reply #225 on: February 13, 2018, 02:07:20 pm »

Dryuary - is that like a thing where you convince yourself that you're not an alcoholic so that you can go back to poisoning yourself for the rest of the year without feeling guilty?

People are strange.

I'm a financially stable 25 year old with no kids. I'm about as addicted to alcohol as my cat is to putting his mouse toy in his water bowl. Would it kill him if he couldn't do it anymore, not a chance, is it the best thing for him, the water, or the toy, probably not, but oh boy does he enjoy it.
I'm actually doing it almost entirely for weight loss reasons. I'm relatively fit for a desk working Midwesterner but since next month I have to spend a week on a beach next to Mr. and Mrs. White House and I'm sick of them making me look like the swamp thing I figured dropping the booze calories would make the working out go a lot farther.

Am I Mr. White House? Love you bro! You look great!
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I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.

Swowl

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« Reply #226 on: February 13, 2018, 02:11:22 pm »

So DatSwan said some stuff:

Teproc posting 0 times is not alignment telling at all. Stuff happens, he should be prodded but no one here can reasonably say he is lurking - As he just doesn’t do that.

So we just clearly have incompatible definitions of lurking so probably not worth debating this.

I hate the ii discussion because as we go to night 1 all it means is that he will be targeted if he is Town and not if he is skum. Suppose that speaks against potential SK.

I think this translates as: "This discussion is useless because all it means is that ii is confirmed scum if he's alive tomorrow."

??

I completely disagree with the premise anyway, but is that really what you're trying to say? Also what on earth does this have to do with an SK? 

Galz mis reading me is skummy based on every game we have ever played together.

What are you referring to with "Galz mis reading me is skummy" and how is does "based on every game we have ever played together" support this? Can you flesh it out for those of us who have never played with both of you?

It’s February and still no dams posts from TWM so probz skum there.

Huh?

Oh and i think cuz could be skum

vote: cuzz

Care to explain this? You just gave "reasons" for two other people being scummy, but then planted a vote on me with no justification whatsoever.

1) No SK because why draw potential killing action to yourself. However, if you don't agree with my premise on being N1 target then the latter wont matter to you either.
2) Not delving games up. Go find them yourself (105,108, RMMRemix) I thnk were the most recent.
3) Dryuary is a joke
4) before I was just voting you to see how you reacted. now I am voting you because of how you reacted.
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Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

Swowl

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« Reply #227 on: February 13, 2018, 02:15:18 pm »

lol...
So if you put yourself on your reads list as Town is that good for town points?

What about listing yourself under "skummy"? Is that more or less skummy than leaving yourself off?
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Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

SirClemens

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« Reply #228 on: February 13, 2018, 02:19:32 pm »

Which player thinks not putting yourself on a scum list is a scum tell? Because I want to vote for that player.

pps thinks that it is a slight scum tell.

Galzria left himself off his reads list so Vote: Galzria

Why would anybody include themself on their own reads list? Barring edge cases they would just put themself under town, whether they are town or scum.

Of course, you put yourself as town. But not including yourself is psychologically indicative of deflecting attention from yourself. It's the lowest grade scumslip there is.

If this justifys a vote is another question.
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Swowl

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« Reply #229 on: February 13, 2018, 02:20:31 pm »

Again the pps argument for Galz being scum I think is bad. I don't think its scummy to not put yourself on your reads list (if I remember I think I put myself on more often as scum because I think about it). But I don't think its a scummy argument for pps to push.

This is actually a really good point. I mean it is a good point about something that ultimately doesn't like.... matter. But I would agree that I tend to see either self listing from skum, or sometimes from strong PRs if they are getting lynch-nervous
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Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

Swowl

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« Reply #230 on: February 13, 2018, 02:28:31 pm »

Galzria left himself off his reads list so Vote: Galzria

Why would anybody include themself on their own reads list? Barring edge cases they would just put themself under town, whether they are town or scum.

Of course, you put yourself as town. But not including yourself is psychologically indicative of deflecting attention from yourself. It's the lowest grade scumslip there is.

I disagree with this completely. I think it is far skummier to put yourself as town then it is to not put yourself on at all.
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real good. That’s how
Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

pingpongsam

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« Reply #231 on: February 13, 2018, 02:43:40 pm »

I never suggested my vote on Galz was a good one just that it held the same utlility as any votes based on the iguana interaction.
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Swowl

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« Reply #232 on: February 13, 2018, 02:51:45 pm »

I never suggested my vote on Galz was a good one just that it held the same utlility as any votes based on the iguana interaction.

So you do not think your vote on Galz is a good vote?
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real good. That’s how
Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

pingpongsam

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« Reply #233 on: February 13, 2018, 03:27:39 pm »

I never suggested my vote on Galz was a good one just that it held the same utlility as any votes based on the iguana interaction.

So you do not think your vote on Galz is a good vote?

I think it is as good as any other. Why is this so hard to grok?
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faust

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« Reply #234 on: February 13, 2018, 03:35:38 pm »

Which player thinks not putting yourself on a scum list is a scum tell? Because I want to vote for that player.
That would be pps.
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pingpongsam

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« Reply #235 on: February 13, 2018, 03:40:29 pm »

Which player thinks not putting yourself on a scum list is a scum tell? Because I want to vote for that player.
That would be pps.

This is either misconstruing my words or misunderstanding Robz' words. Clearly, when you put yourself in your reads list you would always put yourself in the town category. Hence, the argument for not bothering with it.
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faust

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« Reply #236 on: February 13, 2018, 03:43:28 pm »

Which player thinks not putting yourself on a scum list is a scum tell? Because I want to vote for that player.
That would be pps.

This is either misconstruing my words or misunderstanding Robz' words. Clearly, when you put yourself in your reads list you would always put yourself in the town category. Hence, the argument for not bothering with it.
Oh yeah sorry, I guess I misunderstood.
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mcmcsalot

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« Reply #237 on: February 13, 2018, 04:33:50 pm »

Which player thinks not putting yourself on a scum list is a scum tell? Because I want to vote for that player.
That would be pps.

This is either misconstruing my words or misunderstanding Robz' words. Clearly, when you put yourself in your reads list you would always put yourself in the town category. Hence, the argument for not bothering with it.
Oh yeah sorry, I guess I misunderstood.
No faust got it, robz meant "scum list" to mean reads list as you said, not that you would put your self in the scummy section of a reads list. So robz finds you scummy.

Also I disagree wholeheartedly that your vote on galz is at all of similar strength to people voting for people based on the iguana interactions. Your vote on galz is a super weak meta argument about a tiny potential scum slip that is super up to the person who's posting. I maybe agree its of similar streght to a vote for iguana for making the statement he made. But reading into what people said in reaction to the iguana statement and how others reacted to those statements and how the original statements were defended amidst multiple votes and small wagons forming...no way a vote for one of those people is the same as voting for someone who didn't include themselves in their own reads list.

In fact I didn't find your original statement to be scummy but this doubling down of "my vote is just as lose and weak as anyone else's" seems like a scummy reaction to getting more heat than you expected. vote: PPS
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Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
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Teproc

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« Reply #238 on: February 13, 2018, 04:39:01 pm »

Completely forgot about this. Will catch up shortly.
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Teproc

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« Reply #239 on: February 13, 2018, 05:50:19 pm »

Catching up.

I believe that if I describe the thoughts that occured to me when I saw my role PM, it would help prove to you all that I am town. However, doing so would  involve claiming.

Should I claim? Discuss.

Hm. Usually I'd give townpoints for this, but iguana has done this as scum in Lost so meh.

I believe that if I describe the thoughts that occured to me when I saw my role PM, it would help prove to you all that I am town. However, doing so would  involve claiming.

Should I claim? Discuss.

vote: iguana for even bringing up claiming immediately i'm so sick of insta claims and mass claims.

Classic town!mcmc. I wasn't wrong about mcmc in that last game with the whole roleblocking with O right ? Scumteam was... Robz, ash and someone else ? Not mcmc, definitely, so yeah.

His subsequent Cuzz vote is also classic town!mcmc. Voting for stuff that are kinda sorta scummy just to get things moving.

Actually vote: cuzz
Vote: mcmc

Obviously.

I accept iguana as town, and don't think he should claim more.

The scummiest of the "oh iguana must be town" quick reactions.

I accept iguana as town, and don't think he should claim more.

you would

Yes
I don't accept this argument. The iguana is town part, at least. And think he should claim if he thinks he should (looks like he isn't going to, which is fine), but find those giving town credit without actually hearing what he has to say/claim mildly to moderately suspicious.

A bold argument to make as scum, hence townie.

Galz later making the point that the least likely thing is scum supporting scum!iguana is soo scummy.

Good. Now that we've gotten that out of the way, which of these seems most likely:

Scum {any of us} supports Town Iguana
Scum {any of us} supports Scum Iguana
Town {any of us} supports Town Iguana
Town {any of us} supports Scum Iguana

Personally, in a void, I think option 2 is least likely in any given game. That means even if you value the others all equally, Iguana is more likely than not town.

Not to mention, you know, this isn't scum iguana.

Vote:Galz

A wise man.

also just remembered how much i despise this part of the game
unvote

Boo.

not voting (5): Robz888, SirClemens, Teproc, Galzria, iguanaiguana

not voting (5): Robz888, SirClemens, Teproc, Galzria, iguanaiguana

not voting (5): Robz888, SirClemens, Teproc, Galzria, iguanaiguana

Woah.

Took you long enough ! Not really, that was pretty fast actually.

I think Cuzz' reaction on ii claim was a little off. What does meta say about this?

Townie.

anyone claiming ii is town should be looked at as skummy. the only people that could possibly make that assumption at this point int he game are themselves and skum.

Aside from the usual, annoying claims that D1 sucks (when we all know it's the best part of mafia), I'm liking Swan a lot here.

Which of course means he gets an argument with faust.

I essentially agree with Galzria.

Boo. Also, null.

I'm close enough to IC now that I'm gunna lurk and silently judge yall for a while.

I'm hoping this is some reptilian attempt at humour. Only Robz gets to claim IC that prematurely.

I am confused by the amount of people posting at 4am. Also I have come around to agree that iguana's statement is slightly more likely to be made by town and that cuzz's reaction has been the scummiest.

Lalight want to elaborate on your robz read I didn't get weird vibes from him at all.

Also datswan is town, I think he unnecessarily attacks galz and gets miffed more often as town.

Your 4am is my 13.00

I don’t know, he just said couple of general statements and this is all.

I know you and faust live on the other side but I was suprised by the datswan and galz/cuzz activity.

Also doesn't robz just always do that now. He's literally said "Iguana is town and shouldn't claim" and "I agree with galz". What do you expect town!robz to have done/said?

Interesting white-knighting here ;)

well, I would expect not the bare words and statements, but at least a back up of why he agrees with Galz, why he thinks that ii is town, anything else, even RVS!

Are you really saying "I would expect robz to post thought out and backed-up ideas early day 1" because I just can't remember the last time he did that as either alignment.

He definitely does it as scum. See: his Survivor game (which definitely counts as scum even though he played it pro-town).

I'm close enough to IC now that I'm gunna lurk and silently judge yall for a while.

Wanna actually be IC use your town cred to engage people and create even more discussions while accruing reads based on said discussions then if we get into a lul in game state you can slam some of those reads on us with a vote/case. you know pro-town things not just pro-iguana things.

mcmc continuing to be obv!town.

mcmc is being super aggressive

He's being town!mcmc. It's not that hard to spot, it's the thing he does where he's pro-town. Scum!mcmc is quieter on day 1.

Had a crazy day at work and just got to a spot where I could catch up. Quite a lot of intense discussion for a D1.

Have no idea what to make of it. I certainly don’t care for the iguana division method. I took it as perfectly null and pretty much any response to it as null. Getting all invested in null is pretty useless to me.

Galzria left himself off his reads list so Vote: Galzria

While I approve of the vote, I have never put myself on a reads list and am constantly mystified that other people do it.

I am willing to sheep this. vote: DatSwan

Is LL more sheepy as one faction or another ? Because he is pretty sheepy this game.

As a wise man once said:

I think the answer is just sheep Faust.

Vote: DatSwan

The actual winning strategy is to vote for whoever faust thinks is scum but is not pushing. Works regardless of faust's alignment !

On the other hand, this series of posts has been scummier than what DatSwan did.

Vote: Cuzz

If this is still current, I'd like to know what was scummy about the series of posts in question, because I don't particularly see much there.

On the other hand, this series of posts has been scummier than what DatSwan did.

Vote: Cuzz

Cool! Care to show your work for the rest of the class?

Sure. We have a post discussing the scumminess of DatSwan without a vote, immediately followed by a post about how people voting for DatSwan are scummy sheepers. There you gave the reason why you didn't vote for DatSwan! Amazing stuff.

And then comes a pointless reads list that only restates the stuff you just said. But hey you look active at least!

Oh, thanks. Eh, I think that's just Cuzz's style. When  I was scum with e and Joseph, we lynched Cuzz day 1 with basically this case.

And... I'm caught up !

vote: Galz

Though the fact that the most controversial thing PPS has done is the reads list thing makes him an appealing lynch as well. Less than Galz though, still, especially because it's pretty surprising to me he never got a wagon going on him through all this.
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The_Wine_Merchant

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« Reply #240 on: February 13, 2018, 05:54:39 pm »

Dryuary - is that like a thing where you convince yourself that you're not an alcoholic so that you can go back to poisoning yourself for the rest of the year without feeling guilty?

People are strange.
Meh. It is nice to go without things sometimes. I have done the same with sugar, cars, social media, online mafia and other things. Good chance to recalibrate and see if why you are doing something is whether or not you actually want to or because it is an engrained habit.

Completely forgot about this. Will catch up shortly.
So would Teproc pretend to forget about a game and show up later as mafia? I don't see him as being the type to forget he is playing if he is mafia.
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Wins: M91, M96, NM10, M98, M102, M105
Losses: M100, M103, M104, M109, M112

MVPs: M91, M96
Win percentage: 54.5 (6/11)

The_Wine_Merchant

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« Reply #241 on: February 13, 2018, 05:55:31 pm »

Catching up.

I believe that if I describe the thoughts that occured to me when I saw my role PM, it would help prove to you all that I am town. However, doing so would  involve claiming.

Should I claim? Discuss.

Hm. Usually I'd give townpoints for this, but iguana has done this as scum in Lost so meh.
Context? Bonus points if you are willing to point out where in the game in occurred.
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Wins: M91, M96, NM10, M98, M102, M105
Losses: M100, M103, M104, M109, M112

MVPs: M91, M96
Win percentage: 54.5 (6/11)

The_Wine_Merchant

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« Reply #242 on: February 13, 2018, 05:57:58 pm »

mcmc is being super aggressive

He's being town!mcmc. It's not that hard to spot, it's the thing he does where he's pro-town. Scum!mcmc is quieter on day 1.
I agree. And hesitantly think I agree with your points on Galz.

I'll join you. vote: Galz
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Wins: M91, M96, NM10, M98, M102, M105
Losses: M100, M103, M104, M109, M112

MVPs: M91, M96
Win percentage: 54.5 (6/11)

Swowl

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« Reply #243 on: February 13, 2018, 05:58:26 pm »

I never suggested my vote on Galz was a good one just that it held the same utlility as any votes based on the iguana interaction.

So you do not think your vote on Galz is a good vote?

I think it is as good as any other. Why is this so hard to grok?

no not hard I guess, I got it. I just think that if you "don't think your vote on Galz is a good one" because it is "as good as any other" - I mean, it's not like you are forced to vote at this point.
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Jesus how did i fuck that up
real good. That’s how
Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

Teproc

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« Reply #244 on: February 13, 2018, 05:59:08 pm »

Catching up.

I believe that if I describe the thoughts that occured to me when I saw my role PM, it would help prove to you all that I am town. However, doing so would  involve claiming.

Should I claim? Discuss.

Hm. Usually I'd give townpoints for this, but iguana has done this as scum in Lost so meh.
Context? Bonus points if you are willing to point out where in the game in occurred.

Lost mafia, the Poisoner claim, early day 1. I wrote this before iguana made it clear he wouldn't claim right away, so it didn't end up being that similar, but still: I (and most everyone) gave iguana townpoints there because it seemed like he was sharing his internal process of thinking about his PR, which is easier for town than scum. Turns out iguana can do it just fine as scum, so no townpoints for him this game.
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The_Wine_Merchant

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« Reply #245 on: February 13, 2018, 06:03:11 pm »

Would you expect those in that game to remember? I feel like I was an observer, but don't remember much at all.

Quote
Player list:
1. LaLight
2. Galzria
3. gkrieg
4. 2.71828.....
5. Archetype
6. Teproc
7. Witherweaver
8. IDontPlayThisGame
9. Datswan
10. Eevee
11. Qvist
12. RoadRunner
13. faust
14. SpaceAnemone
15. Iguanaiguana
16. Jimmmmm
17. O

Run by: Robz, mcmc

The three people that took him at face value and assigned town points were all involved in the previous game.
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Wins: M91, M96, NM10, M98, M102, M105
Losses: M100, M103, M104, M109, M112

MVPs: M91, M96
Win percentage: 54.5 (6/11)

Robz888

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« Reply #246 on: February 13, 2018, 06:03:40 pm »

Cool, iguana is confirmed town, and Teproc.

Vote: PPS
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Cuzz

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« Reply #247 on: February 13, 2018, 06:09:02 pm »

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Cuzz

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« Reply #248 on: February 13, 2018, 06:09:38 pm »

also unvote
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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« Reply #249 on: February 13, 2018, 06:13:56 pm »

Cool, iguana is confirmed town, and Teproc.

Vote: PPS


Why am I conf!town ?
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Mafia play advice: If you are not content with the way the game is going, always assume that it is your fault.
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