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Author Topic: Nocturne: Yay or nay?  (Read 8722 times)

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werothegreat

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Nocturne: Yay or nay?
« on: January 02, 2018, 05:46:46 pm »
0

So Nocturne has been out for about two months now, and we've all had a decent chance to play around with it.  There have been some threads about certain cards, and there was Tom Vasel's pouty review.  So I figured, let's put it to a poll.  Do you like Nocturne?

Personally, I do like it.
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Re: Nocturne: Yay or nay?
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2018, 05:56:02 pm »
+2

At the end of the day, it's more cards, and I enjoy playing with them. Actually, there are fewer cards in the set I would put on a banlist than in some other sets, so by that metric I think it's doing well. I love lots of the cards! Some of the mechanics aren't top shelf Dominion, but I mean, neither were Potions and somehow we're still okay.
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Re: Nocturne: Yay or nay?
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2018, 06:10:30 pm »
0

I just got Nocturne and Empires a couple weeks before Christmas. So far, I've enjoyed the Nocturne cards a bit more than the Empires cards, but I'm enjoying both a bit less than Adventures and Dark Ages.

Although, my Adventures cards being warped/curled still bothers me quite a lot.
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ObtusePunubiris

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Re: Nocturne: Yay or nay?
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2018, 11:43:16 pm »
+2

Absolutely, I like it.  It isn't perfect.  It isn't my favorite expansion.  It is, however, very good and lots of fun.

I've said before that I've enjoyed every expansion to date and will therefore continue to buy anything Donald designs for this game until such time as he gives me a reason not to.  Nocturne is not even close to that.
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dz

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Re: Nocturne: Yay or nay?
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2018, 11:53:12 pm »
+1

I really like Nocturne. Nights, Heirlooms, and extra cards are amazing. Boons and Hexes aren't as great, but they're still fun.
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Re: Nocturne: Yay or nay?
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2018, 12:07:47 am »
0

Nocturne has a lot of card I like. Boons and Spirits are really cool. Night cards are a new angle to think about. Maybe a couple of cards are bizarre or roundabout, like Vampire and Tormentor, but overall I like the expansion. I wouldn't say it's my favourite though.

Still, I've really come around to Empires, despite the now apparent "power creep" it brings along with Adventures.
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guidobass

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Re: Nocturne: Yay or nay?
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2018, 11:15:46 am »
+2

I say Yay!

I've gotten every expansion as they come out, and each one improved the playability of the game, for me/us. We have always seen Dominion and all of it's expansions as a single game, so I don't have a favorite expansion.

Nocturne adds a lot of new twists and turns. It adds complexity.
 
We're not 'picky' about supposed good/bad cards, so everything that's been added in each expansion has made the game more enjoyable for us. After about 15 games I have nothing more to say other than that Nocturne is another great addition to an already great game.

Thanks, DVX.
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Re: Nocturne: Yay or nay?
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2018, 11:22:12 am »
+1

It’s pretty dope. It’s not quite as deterministic or high skill as Adventures and Empires, but I sort of prefer that because it’s easier to play with more casual friends. The new mechanics and how they integrate with other expansions are interesting enough to keep me occupied for awhile, and they threw some absolute gems in there too for more conventional engines (Cursed Village, Monastery, etc). It can get a little swingy but it works.
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weesh

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Re: Nocturne: Yay or nay?
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2018, 12:05:55 pm »
+1

for each of the following comparisons, the metric is "fun to complication ratio".

Nocturne is superior to Hinterlands (more complicated, but a lot more fun)
Nocturne is equivalent to Dark Ages
Nocturne is worse than Adventures/Empires (more complicated, without being more fun)

I'm thrilled to have it, but it has been brain-melty.
Yesterday, we played 7 base cards, and 3 nocturne cards, and after the game was over, neither of us had any idea how to play the board optimally. We discussed it for 10 minutes, and had some ideas, but no conclusions.

Thank goodness it was a casual game, because we let each other take back moves after new information was learned, because misunderstandings were foiling our plans.

After a few trial runs, I've been vetoing all dooms, or all fates, so that we only have to deal with one stack of 12 unfamiliar cards. 

That said, cursed gold is probably my least favorite card in the entire game.  If I could use it as a copper, I'd be fine with it.  Also, the only card I have ever errata'd is "Mountain's Gift". 

Imps and Conclave are excellent.  More "variety matters" cards please.

Verdict: strong, but not stunning (for players in the 50-200 game range?)

Actually, there are fewer cards in the set I would put on a banlist than in some other sets, so by that metric I think it's doing well.

What cards are contenders for that honor?
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Japo

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Re: Nocturne: Yay or nay?
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2018, 10:31:56 am »
+4

I'm a little disappointed it doesn't have events. I love how you can add them to every set.
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Re: Nocturne: Yay or nay?
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2018, 11:24:00 am »
+5

3 people voted Nay. Well, time to break out the pitchforks and torches.
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Chappy7

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Re: Nocturne: Yay or nay?
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2018, 11:27:58 am »
+11

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Re: Nocturne: Yay or nay?
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2018, 12:23:05 pm »
+1

I was kinda disappointed but new cards are new cards. We need more empire style expansions.
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Re: Nocturne: Yay or nay?
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2018, 08:00:03 pm »
+2

We need more empire style expansions.

What exactly makes an expansion "empire-style"?

All in all I'm happy about Nocturne. It has a sort of "rough-around-the-edges" feel that we hadn't seen in an expansion in a long time, but it also tries to do a lot of different stuff, more so than Empires for sure. There's only a few cards that I really wish were different or didn't exist, and none seems to be as bad as Cultist or Rebuild, not even close.
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Re: Nocturne: Yay or nay?
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2018, 08:17:34 pm »
+1

I can't put this into "Yay" or "Nay". This poll needs a "Meh" option. Because that's what Nocturne is to me. Certainly not the worst expansion, but neither one of the best.

Breaking it down, that's how I see it:

It has one of the most fun themes ever seen in Dominion. Yay
Hexes are annoying and it feels weird how sometimes (really, at some times during your turn) they do nothing when sometimes they can totally screw you over. Nay.
Boons are not as bad for the most part, but then there's Fool, which is probably the worst card of Nocturne. Nay.
The art is great. Yay.
Night cards are split pile/traveller levels of exciting. Meh.
Heirlooms are brilliant. Double yay.

Favourite cards: Cemetary, Changeling, Conclave, Shepherd, Skulk, Cobbler, Leprachaun (bonus: Will-o-Wisp)
Least favourite: Fool, Necromancer, Blessed Village
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crj

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Re: Nocturne: Yay or nay?
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2018, 10:40:11 pm »
+2

Also, the manufacturing quality is good - yay.
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Re: Nocturne: Yay or nay?
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2018, 11:53:13 pm »
0

I'm a little disappointed it doesn't have events. I love how you can add them to every set.
Yeah. Personally I was hoping for some landmarks but overall I'm not complaining. More Dominion is always good.
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Simon Jester

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Re: Nocturne: Yay or nay?
« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2018, 08:04:52 am »
+1

Still exploring both Nocturne and Empires but I like what I meet in Nocturne. I'm one of those who like the randomness in Dominion and is there for very soft for Boons and also the hexes (even though *gaah* when it hit's you hard). I understand that more skilled players detest it, but it makes it more fun for my level. I'm more impressed over all by Empires, but I think I will like Nocturne more than Dark Ages.

Over all 4/5 Very Nices on Noct, where I think Empires will get a full 5/5.
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ackmondual

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Re: Nocturne: Yay or nay?
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2018, 08:49:16 pm »
0

To "South Park"-ize this, we add the following caption...
Rabble rabble rabble!
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ackmondual

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Re: Nocturne: Yay or nay?
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2018, 08:51:49 pm »
0

Also, the manufacturing quality is good - yay.
Please describe the cards in Dominion: Nocturne

"Cards were printed on blackcore stock cards using high quality inks"  ;D
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ackmondual

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Re: Nocturne: Yay or nay?
« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2018, 09:34:57 pm »
+2

I'm a little disappointed it doesn't have events. I love how you can add them to every set.
I too was hoping that there would be "set independent" components here, with the top candidate being Heirlooms.  For example, P/C don't require Prosperity cards, and Shelters doesn't require Dark Ages cards.  However, it turns out that they need to be paired with their respective Kingdom cards.

I did inquire about just how independent they could be as a variant to have more of the other Kingdom cards be non-Nocturne stuff, while still having many to all of the Heirlooms....
https://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1888875/using-heirlooms-without-their-respective-kingdom-c



I can't put this into "Yay" or "Nay". This poll needs a "Meh" option. Because that's what Nocturne is to me. Certainly not the worst expansion, but neither one of the best.
I believe it's moreso.. "Would you buy/play this expansion or not?", so a neutral option didn't seem necessary.



I'm a little disappointed it doesn't have events. I love how you can add them to every set.
I do like how "Durations" seems to be a "foundation mechanic".  All sets (excluding promos) always had cards that produced coins, actions, buys, +cards, had Attack cards, and can do Trashing.  Some even had alt-Treasures, alt-Victory cards, and Reactions.  Now, we've got 4 sets with Durations and counting!  8)
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enfynet

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Re: Nocturne: Yay or nay?
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2018, 09:47:46 pm »
0

I'm a little disappointed it doesn't have events. I love how you can add them to every set.
I too was hoping that there would be "set independent" components here, with the top candidate being Heirlooms.  For example, P/C don't require Prosperity cards, and Shelters doesn't require Dark Ages cards.  However, it turns out that they need to be paired with their respective Kingdom cards.

I did inquire about just how independent they could be as a variant to have more of the other Kingdom cards be non-Nocturne stuff, while still having many to all of the Heirlooms....
https://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1888875/using-heirlooms-without-their-respective-kingdom-c
I feel like Haunted Mirror and Secret Cave might be problematic*. The rest could probably be used with a lot of different Kingdoms.


*They include using other Nocturne cards
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Limetime

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Re: Nocturne: Yay or nay?
« Reply #22 on: January 08, 2018, 12:25:05 am »
+2

We need more empire style expansions.

What exactly makes an expansion "empire-style"?

All in all I'm happy about Nocturne. It has a sort of "rough-around-the-edges" feel that we hadn't seen in an expansion in a long time, but it also tries to do a lot of different stuff, more so than Empires for sure. There's only a few cards that I really wish were different or didn't exist, and none seems to be as bad as Cultist or Rebuild, not even close.
What i meant by empire style I meant
more powerful cards but not in a bad way(Cards that incorporate into complex strategies and mitigate early luck)
more points to allow for come-backs
not many weak cards
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trivialknot

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Re: Nocturne: Yay or nay?
« Reply #23 on: January 08, 2018, 08:31:08 pm »
+2

I love every part of Nocturne.  Maybe that doesn't count for much since I say that about every expansion, but I do.  The mechanical themes have been the focus of praise or criticism, but even apart from those, I think it's just a really solid set.  So many cards, like Leprechaun or Devil's Workshop, have dual purposes in engines and BM.  And so many of the cards are just delightfully awkward.

My main criticism of Nocturne is pretty much identical to Tom Vassel's though.  I was playing the game with some less experienced players over break, and yes it can get to be too much.  Explaining 10 new cards is already a bit much, but now there are even more than 10 in any given kingdom.  Made me wish we had brought base along with us so we could mix in some simpler cards.

But as far as I'm concerned, as a Dominion fan, it's not too much, it's just great.
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JThorne

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Re: Nocturne: Yay or nay?
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2018, 02:21:29 pm »
+5

It's a hilarious skill-tester of a set.

Just when you think you know how to play Dominion, Donald throws you a curve-ball. Unpredictable, difficult, and a bunch of cards that just don't slot into existing strategies in the way you expect them to at first glance.

I've watched players try to play Cursed Village in a positive drawing engine, thus buying $5 Necropolises with downside. I've watched players try to play Village/draw engines with Tragic Hero as the only +buy and make themselves crazy trying to figure out how to get double-Province buys reliably as their Heroes die repeatedly. I've watched people gain too many Imps or Conclaves and run out of unique actions. I've seen a lot of too much Gold-gaining. There are so many gotchas in the set it's ridiculous.

Just played a game where my Castles-BM strategy revolved around a surprisingly fast Devil's Workshop and Save/Expedition. (Goat/Lookout for trashing.) On small money hands, buy Save/Expedition/Devil's workshop to gain gold. Next hand, buy the next expensive Castle. Save allowed lining up Golds or Small Castles with stuff to trash for bigger castles. (Side note: Save/Tragic Hero! Ha! Did I say "hilarious" yet?)
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ackmondual

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Re: Nocturne: Yay or nay?
« Reply #25 on: January 15, 2018, 03:16:57 am »
+3

I'd say Yay.  Every expansion (excluding promos) have the "core basics" covered: cards that give you +Actions, +Buys, +Cards, +coins, and a variety of trashers (including self trashers).  Noct. is no exception.  It also has some extras that are common, but not necessarily in every set, like alt Treasures (Idol), alt Victory cards (Cemetery), Reaction (Faithful Hound), Cursers (Idol, 2 of the Hexes), and Attacks


It's also managed to revisit previous beloved mechanics and features...
Duration = Secret Cave, Duration + Night
variety a la Cornucopia = Conclave, Imp
On-Buy/Gain effects a la Hinterlands = Skulk, Cursed Village, Blessed Village
gained cards go into hand = Night Watchmen, Ghost Town, Guardian, Cobbler
"play any number of cards" = Night cards don't have "points" associated with them, so you may play ANY number of them (akin to Treasure)

defense cards = Guardian
hybrid types = Werewolf is the only Action + Night
"This is not in the supply" = Imp, Bat, Will-O-Wisp
"action multiplier" = Ghost
deck of cards that are random a la Dark Ages = Boons and Hexes
« Last Edit: January 22, 2018, 11:56:57 pm by ackmondual »
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XerxesPraelor

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Re: Nocturne: Yay or nay?
« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2018, 10:39:38 pm »
0

Yay as long as you have a few other sets.

When you have kingdoms with a lot of Night, it cuts down on the interestingness of the action phase. Also, lots of the cards have auxiliary cards you need to use (spirits, heirlooms, hexes, boons, states), and if you have too many, it gets overwhelming.
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Re: Nocturne: Yay or nay?
« Reply #27 on: January 20, 2018, 09:30:58 am »
+1

I am also of the “meh” opinion. I’ve played probably 20-30 games of it online so I could get familiar with it first. Would I buy it? Maybe eventually, but it won’t likely be the next expansion I’ll get. Here’s why:

1. Really my biggest reason is that it feels like a fan expansion, since it goes in so many directions thematically. The zombie/vampire/ghost theme changes the genre of the game series from historical fiction to fantasy, which is a bit disappointing, even though it doesn’t affect gameplay. (I know there were a bunch of magic-themed cards, especially in Alchemy, but those still felt almost Arthurian.)
2. It introduces 7 new card types, not all of which are necessary, in my opinion (Zombies, Spirits, etc.)
3. Boons are a good idea in theory, but if you apply them randomly, it’s difficult to strategise too much, and if you get to choose them, I personally prefer to buy a card that has a guaranteed effect each turn just in case your favourite boon doesn’t resurface.
4. Hexes are too swingy depending on the draw. Greed only gives you a copper to your deck, whereas Misery can cost you 4 victory points.
5. The Heirlooms are cool, if perhaps a bit predictable (after Ruins/Shelters in Dark Ages). But they’re a nice change to setup.
6. I like the idea of the extra turn phase after the buy (Night), and some of the Night cards are kinda fun.

Ultimately, it gets a “not bad” rating for me. So many of the other expansions add more to the gameplay, in my opinion, than Nocturne, but I wouldn’t object to Nocturne cards being added to the Kingdom of a new game.
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Willvon

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Re: Nocturne: Yay or nay?
« Reply #28 on: January 26, 2018, 10:39:03 pm »
0

I voted Yay.  My wife and I are still getting through all of the new cards. In fact, we actually haven't played with Fool yet, which seems to be everyone's least liked card.  I really enjoy having the new Night phase and Heirlooms, in particular.  I also enjoy the "not in the supply" cards.  I just wish more cards made use of them.  Boons are nice, but not earth-shattering. I find Hexes to be interesting, but maybe too widely variant in their negative impact.  Still, I like the idea of a variant attack that changes throughout the game and thus is immune to just building up some common counterpunches, like trashers for cursing attacks, etc.

Overall, as others have said, any time Donald X provides us with new cards is a wonderful treat.  So thanks Donald for continuing to stretch the boundaries of Dominion and challenge our preconceptions and self-conceived limits we may place on the game.
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Re: Nocturne: Yay or nay?
« Reply #29 on: January 26, 2018, 10:52:58 pm »
+1

In fact, we actually haven't played with Fool yet, which seems to be everyone's least liked card.
Correct me if i'm wrong, but it seems that the thing everyone doesn't like about it is the game-lengthening.  if you don't mind that it draws out the game a bit, try it out!
Also, if you usually only play 2 player, it doesn't lengthen the game anywhere near as badly as 4 player games.
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Re: Nocturne: Yay or nay?
« Reply #30 on: January 27, 2018, 02:08:45 am »
0

In fact, we actually haven't played with Fool yet, which seems to be everyone's least liked card.
Correct me if i'm wrong, but it seems that the thing everyone doesn't like about it is the game-lengthening.  if you don't mind that it draws out the game a bit, try it out!
Also, if you usually only play 2 player, it doesn't lengthen the game anywhere near as badly as 4 player games.

I'd say the game-lengthening is more of a way how Fool's issues affect the game in the end. Those issues would be it being fiddly, having a lot of assets to learn, and causing analysis paralysis. Personally I dislike the fact that, besides the fact that Fool is already a Fate card and rather random, how much it does for you depends on when you draw it - in a game where you lack control over that thanks to Lucky Coin. But nobody else seems to mind, maybe because they feel that Nocturne requires a higher tolerance towards randomness either way. In the end, the randomness is still more mild than with Hexes, but boy do you think and move stuff for those little differences..
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Re: Nocturne: Yay or nay?
« Reply #31 on: January 27, 2018, 04:41:18 am »
0

The thing I don't like about Fool is that it's so weak nobody ever buys it.
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Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

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William Howard Taft

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Re: Nocturne: Yay or nay?
« Reply #32 on: January 27, 2018, 02:35:16 pm »
+3

The thing I don't like about Fool is that it's so weak nobody ever buys it.

I love when my opponent ignores Fool entirely and there's also some sort of trash for benefit available so I can quickly get Lost in the Woods and then remove Fool from my deck.
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Awaclus

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Re: Nocturne: Yay or nay?
« Reply #33 on: January 27, 2018, 05:54:13 pm »
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The thing I don't like about Fool is that it's so weak nobody ever buys it.

I love when my opponent ignores Fool entirely and there's also some sort of trash for benefit available so I can quickly get Lost in the Woods and then remove Fool from my deck.

I love when my opponent buys a Fool and then they have to waste their TfB on that instead of getting rid of junk that was already in their deck to begin with.
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Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's CC-licensed albums for free
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