Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 2 3 [All]

Author Topic: Magic Lamp is the dumbest card-shaped thing  (Read 3188 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10580
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
  • Respect: +11003
    • View Profile
Magic Lamp is the dumbest card-shaped thing
« on: December 20, 2017, 03:42:55 pm »
0

It might as well read "Roll a 6-sided die. If it's a 6, the game is over and you win." because that's incredibly close to what it does.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's albums for free

jonts26

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2719
  • Shuffle iT Username: jonts
  • Respect: +3576
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lamp is the dumbest card-shaped thing
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2017, 03:46:38 pm »
+1

It does seem very swingy, but it's something strong you usually need to build around, and I'm not sure it's more swingy than other cards in that class.
Logged

Cave-o-sapien

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 783
  • Respect: +1419
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lamp is the dumbest card-shaped thing
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2017, 07:28:06 pm »
+2

Had a game with Shelters, Magic Lamp and Menagerie recently that felt very much like this.

I didn't roll the six.
Logged

crj

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 705
  • Respect: +824
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lamp is the dumbest card-shaped thing
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2017, 08:41:35 pm »
+2

I played a Magic Lamp game this evening. Two players. Opponent and I managed to cash in our Magic Lamps on consecutive turns.

He got there by buying Werewolves, Secret Caves and Cursed Villages (draw to 6, discard duplicates, play some stuff, lather, rinse, repeat); I got there by thinning away much of my Copper and buying an early Skulk. (Oh, and having a Raider still in play from my previous turn, so I didn't even need to draw more cards.)

It felt like both were well-conceived strategies that worked, neither relying overmuch on luck.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2017, 08:43:21 pm by crj »
Logged

Commodore Chuckles

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 302
  • Shuffle iT Username: Commodore Chuckles
  • Respect: +554
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lamp is the dumbest card-shaped thing
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2017, 10:58:07 pm »
+1

I don't think it's any swingier than Tournament. Both of them reward building your deck so that you can collide cards in a certain way. It's probably less swingy than Tournament, actually, because there's only one of each Prize. I admit I haven't played with it much, but that's my impression of it so far.
Logged

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6820
  • Respect: +7665
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lamp is the dumbest card-shaped thing
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2017, 11:05:52 pm »
+1

Having not played with it myself, I'm not seeing why it would be swingy or luck-based. It sounds a lot like Horn of Plenty, which doesn't feel swingy or luck-based. It rewards building a deck that can get a lot of different cards into play at once. Playing one is kind of like playing 3 Horn of Plenties... which is great, but not swingy.

And Tournament is seen as Swingy because it strongly rewards the first player to pull it off. Magic Lamp is just as good if you pull it off second; especially if you do so before your opponent shuffles.

So what am I missing?
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

jonts26

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2719
  • Shuffle iT Username: jonts
  • Respect: +3576
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lamp is the dumbest card-shaped thing
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2017, 11:20:52 pm »
+2

Having not played with it myself, I'm not seeing why it would be swingy or luck-based. It sounds a lot like Horn of Plenty, which doesn't feel swingy or luck-based. It rewards building a deck that can get a lot of different cards into play at once. Playing one is kind of like playing 3 Horn of Plenties... which is great, but not swingy.

And Tournament is seen as Swingy because it strongly rewards the first player to pull it off. Magic Lamp is just as good if you pull it off second; especially if you do so before your opponent shuffles.

So what am I missing?

It's likely one player can hit a shuffle or two before the other. Wishes are crazy good since they non-terminally gain to hand. If you get 3 more good cards in your deck even a shuffle faster, the snowball effect is going to be huge.
Logged

werothegreat

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7979
  • Shuffle iT Username: werothegreat
  • Prepare to be boarded!
  • Respect: +9187
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lamp is the dumbest card-shaped thing
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2017, 11:57:04 pm »
+7

It is a law of Dominion that the first time you play Zombie Mason, it will trash your Magic Lamp.
Logged
Contrary to popular belief, I do not run the wiki all on my own.  There are plenty of other people who are actively editing.  Go bother them!

Check out this fantasy epic adventure novel I wrote, the Broken Globe!  http://www.amazon.com/Broken-Globe-Tyr-Chronicles-Book-ebook/dp/B00LR1SZAS/

popsofctown

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5206
  • Respect: +2671
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lamp is the dumbest card-shaped thing
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2017, 12:07:27 am »
+1

It's pretty silly on boards with no Villages, but numerous interchangeable cantrips.  It's basically never correct to double up on any one cantrip; both players mirror, and since cantripping isn't a consistent method one player goes off far sooner than the other..

With villages in trashing, I'm not as immediately convinced it's any worse than anything else.
Logged
Also you probably are an expert if you buy two bureaucrats early.

Kirian

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7045
  • Shuffle iT Username: Kirian
  • An Unbalanced Equation
  • Respect: +9264
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lamp is the dumbest card-shaped thing
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2017, 01:02:07 am »
+7

It might as well read "Roll a 6-sided die. If it's a 6, the game is over and you win." because that's incredibly close to what it does.

I've told you a million times not to use hyperbole!

Also, I disagree.  It's tricky to get the Wishes, but not nearly as hard as rolling a 6... and your opponent has the chance to get the same Wishes, as opposed to getting Diadem instead of Trusty Steed and Princess.
Logged
Kirian's Law of f.DS jokes:  Any sufficiently unexplained joke is indistinguishable from serious conversation.

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10580
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
  • Respect: +11003
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lamp is the dumbest card-shaped thing
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2017, 06:21:33 am »
+1

Having not played with it myself, I'm not seeing why it would be swingy or luck-based. It sounds a lot like Horn of Plenty, which doesn't feel swingy or luck-based. It rewards building a deck that can get a lot of different cards into play at once. Playing one is kind of like playing 3 Horn of Plenties... which is great, but not swingy.

And Tournament is seen as Swingy because it strongly rewards the first player to pull it off. Magic Lamp is just as good if you pull it off second; especially if you do so before your opponent shuffles.

So what am I missing?

Magic Lamp starts in your deck and rewards building your deck more or less the way you would build it anyway, which is trashing your starting cards and cycling a lot, except that normally you would buy more copies of the same cards to make your deck more consistent, but with Magic Lamp, you have to make your deck less consistent by buying uniques instead. There's a bit of a choice between prioritizing a consistent deck and prioritizing the uniques, but it's a crapshoot either way because in the former case, you can either connect your duplicates or not, and in the latter case, you can either draw enough of your cards or not.

It is absolutely crucial to get it as early as possible because the more turns you spend buying $3-5 cards while your opponent has a fully functioning engine (which they have after connecting Magic Lamp), the more they're ahead by the time you connect it.

Horn of Plenty is different because you don't generally buy it until you're already able to hit 5 uniques every time. At that point, it isn't swingy anymore. Magic Lamp is, because it's possible to get 6 uniques before you're getting them consistently in fact, it almost always happens and then the other player doesn't get 6 uniques because they aren't doing so consistently either.

Tournament is also different because you have to balance getting the Provinces vs. building the engine, and the Prizes are rarely strong enough to decide the game on their own. Someone who just tries to get Princess as fast as possible can easily lose against someone who builds the engine first the latter player doesn't have the Princess, but they have the engine, which is usually better than having the Princess but not the engine. With Magic Lamp, the way to connect it is to build the engine, and as soon as it connects, you automatically have the engine, so it's impossible to compete with that by playing better.

It's more comparable to Urchin and Sauna than anything else. Those cards still have more of a skill element to them than Magic Lamp, and their effects are nowhere near as strong as getting three Wishes while getting rid of the Magic Lamp, but they can sometimes have the same effect where both players have to open Urchin/Urchin or Sauna/Silver and then one of them has a significant advantage just because theirs connected. The main reason why Magic Lamp is dumber is that the advantage is so much bigger, plus it's a one-shot effect; you can still have a hard time connecting Urchins or Saunas again after getting lucky one time, which can allow the opponent to catch up, but if you connect Magic Lamp a shuffle before your opponent, you just win.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's albums for free

trivialknot

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 565
  • Respect: +904
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lamp is the dumbest card-shaped thing
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2017, 10:55:56 am »
+1

So, was everyone distracted by the randomness of boons/Hexes, that we missed the real power card of Nocturne?  Our play group hasn't gotten to the stage where we just go all out for Magic Lamp, but I could see this happening.  Magic Lamp seems fairly powerful, in contrast to Haunted Mirror, which is far weaker than I initially thought.

It's a shame we're not ranking heirlooms in the Qvist rankings.  I mean, I understand why given the difficulties--which category could you usefully put them in?  But it would be cool to see Magic Lamp or whatever shoot up in the rankings if/when people realize how powerful it is.
Logged

JThorne

  • Apprentice
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 298
  • Respect: +595
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lamp is the dumbest card-shaped thing
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2017, 11:07:37 am »
+2

Quote
He got there by buying Werewolves, Secret Caves and Cursed Villages (draw to 6, discard duplicates, play some stuff, lather, rinse, repeat);

Wait a minute. You can't "repeat." As soon as you play your second Cursed Village (or second anything) you can't cash in the lamp. It's more like lather, rinse, get soap in your eyes, swear, try rinsing again.

The actual sequence is: Play your cursed Village, draw to 6, play Werewolf to draw three, hope you got lucky and now have four other uniques in hand, because if you don't, lamp's not happening this turn, and no amount of additional villages and werewolves can help you get there.

Having playable durations helps a great deal, though I'd hate to have to play Secret Cave in a kingdom without Cursed Village to improve it. A turn that starts Secret Cave, discard duplicates, Cursed Village, then Werewolf stands a good chance of lamping, but that does rely on getting those cards in a particular order.
Logged

JThorne

  • Apprentice
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 298
  • Respect: +595
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lamp is the dumbest card-shaped thing
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2017, 11:13:51 am »
0

Quote
Haunted Mirror, which is far weaker than I initially thought.

I've found myself skipping Ghost quite a bit. It only seems worth the effort if you only have power actions worth duplicating, which isn't always the case. I've watched players over-invest in getting a Ghost and then having it turn up...a Will-O'-Wisp...Or a Mandarin (way to Ghost Ship yourself! Enjoy your $6.)

I did kind of enjoy getting an early Ghost in a Swindler slog, though. Double-ouch.
Logged

pacovf

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3297
  • Multiediting poster
  • Respect: +3638
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lamp is the dumbest card-shaped thing
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2017, 11:34:53 am »
+4

Quote
He got there by buying Werewolves, Secret Caves and Cursed Villages (draw to 6, discard duplicates, play some stuff, lather, rinse, repeat);

Wait a minute. You can't "repeat." As soon as you play your second Cursed Village (or second anything) you can't cash in the lamp. It's more like lather, rinse, get soap in your eyes, swear, try rinsing again.

The actual sequence is: Play your cursed Village, draw to 6, play Werewolf to draw three, hope you got lucky and now have four other uniques in hand, because if you don't, lamp's not happening this turn, and no amount of additional villages and werewolves can help you get there.

Having playable durations helps a great deal, though I'd hate to have to play Secret Cave in a kingdom without Cursed Village to improve it. A turn that starts Secret Cave, discard duplicates, Cursed Village, then Werewolf stands a good chance of lamping, but that does rely on getting those cards in a particular order.

You do realize you can play more than one copy of the same card, right? It just won't count for Magic Lamp. Just asking because it sounds like you are saying that it's impossible for you to activate Magic Lamp if you play two Cursed Villages. It will be harder, for sure, but it's still possible.
Logged
pacovf has a neopets account.  It has 999 hours logged.  All his neopets are named "Jessica".  I guess that must be his ex.

aku_chi

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 519
  • Shuffle iT Username: aku chi
  • Respect: +1077
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lamp is the dumbest card-shaped thing
« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2017, 11:41:39 am »
+1

Quote
Haunted Mirror, which is far weaker than I initially thought.

I've found myself skipping Ghost quite a bit. It only seems worth the effort if you only have power actions worth duplicating, which isn't always the case. I've watched players over-invest in getting a Ghost and then having it turn up...a Will-O'-Wisp...Or a Mandarin (way to Ghost Ship yourself! Enjoy your $6.)

I did kind of enjoy getting an early Ghost in a Swindler slog, though. Double-ouch.

Ghost playing Will-o-wisp is great!  Start the turn with +2 actions and +2-4 cards.  That being said, the Ghost from Haunted Mirror isn't always amazing, because of how asymmetrical a single Ghost makes your turns.  I think it's rarely worth going out of your way to activate the Haunted Mirror, but it's definitely a benefit when you do get the Ghost.
Logged

trivialknot

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 565
  • Respect: +904
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lamp is the dumbest card-shaped thing
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2017, 12:02:30 pm »
+4

Someone should play & record a Secret Cave cage match, where the first player to trigger Magic Lamp wins.  Then you continue the game just to see who would have won normally.
Logged

DG

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3977
  • Respect: +2536
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lamp is the dumbest card-shaped thing
« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2017, 12:05:05 pm »
+5

Someone should play & record a Secret Cave cage match, where the first player to trigger Magic Lamp wins.  Then you continue the game just to see who would have won normally.

Can anyone remember the old days when people complained that whoever bought the first gold was sure to win? Those were good times.
Logged

enfynet

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1682
  • Respect: +1145
    • View Profile
    • JD's Custom Clubs
Re: Magic Lamp is the dumbest card-shaped thing
« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2017, 12:49:01 pm »
+3

Quote
He got there by buying Werewolves, Secret Caves and Cursed Villages (draw to 6, discard duplicates, play some stuff, lather, rinse, repeat);

Wait a minute. You can't "repeat." As soon as you play your second Cursed Village (or second anything) you can't cash in the lamp. It's more like lather, rinse, get soap in your eyes, swear, try rinsing again.

The actual sequence is: Play your cursed Village, draw to 6, play Werewolf to draw three, hope you got lucky and now have four other uniques in hand, because if you don't, lamp's not happening this turn, and no amount of additional villages and werewolves can help you get there.

Having playable durations helps a great deal, though I'd hate to have to play Secret Cave in a kingdom without Cursed Village to improve it. A turn that starts Secret Cave, discard duplicates, Cursed Village, then Werewolf stands a good chance of lamping, but that does rely on getting those cards in a particular order.

You do realize you can play more than one copy of the same card, right? It just won't count for Magic Lamp. Just asking because it sounds like you are saying that it's impossible for you to activate Magic Lamp if you play two Cursed Villages. It will be harder, for sure, but it's still possible.
I don't understand how this is very difficult.

1. Cursed Village
2. Secret Cave
3. Werewolf
4. Copper
5. Silver
6. Magic Lamp
Logged
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious."

crj

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 705
  • Respect: +824
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lamp is the dumbest card-shaped thing
« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2017, 01:18:55 pm »
0

Just asking because it sounds like you are saying that it's impossible for you to activate Magic Lamp if you play two Cursed Villages. It will be harder, for sure, but it's still possible.
Depends. If your second Cursed Village draws you one card you've not played before, you've broken even. If it draws you two, you're ahead. (And remember you'd quite like to improve your hand and have a better turn at the same time as setting up for Magic Lamp.)

It feels as though, especially with several distinct Heirlooms flying around, if you can just draw and sift heaps of cards then playing six uniques will often be fairly straightforward.

Neither of us managed to cash in our Magic Lamps especially quickly, but we both got there by routes that were also useful in their own rights.
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10580
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
  • Respect: +11003
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lamp is the dumbest card-shaped thing
« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2017, 01:41:33 pm »
0

I don't understand how this is very difficult.

1. Cursed Village
2. Secret Cave
3. Werewolf
4. Copper
5. Silver
6. Magic Lamp

Because Cursed Village and Werewolf don't count if you have more than one copy of them in play.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's albums for free

enfynet

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1682
  • Respect: +1145
    • View Profile
    • JD's Custom Clubs
Re: Magic Lamp is the dumbest card-shaped thing
« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2017, 02:06:13 pm »
0

But if you're aiming to trash Magic Lamp, it seems pretty simple to set up.
Logged
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious."

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10580
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
  • Respect: +11003
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lamp is the dumbest card-shaped thing
« Reply #22 on: December 21, 2017, 02:24:59 pm »
0

But if you're aiming to trash Magic Lamp, it seems pretty simple to set up.

It's simple if you draw the cards in the correct order. It's not if you don't. That's why it's a dumb card.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's albums for free

JThorne

  • Apprentice
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 298
  • Respect: +595
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lamp is the dumbest card-shaped thing
« Reply #23 on: December 21, 2017, 04:46:35 pm »
+2

On swinginess: Working hard and/or getting lucky to collide two Urchins puts a bomb into your deck. Working hard and/or getting lucky to spike $8 and subsequently collide Tournament/Province puts a bomb into your deck. Working hard and/or getting lucky enough to set off Magic Lamp puts THREE bombs into your deck. (Note the lower-case "b" in all cases.)

I wouldn't go as far as calling it dumb, but it's definitely swingy and hard to pull off predictably. I don't think minimizing the difficulty of activating it is an effective argument. It's just a card you have to factor into your decision making, try your best to activate it, and just accept that sometimes your opponent will get it first. It's not the first card like that, and it won't be the last. It's still a card game, after all. In the long run, the better players will still come out ahead.

For the humor value: I've played a few on-line games with experienced players relatively new to Nocturne who were repeatedly forgetting to even attempt to activate it. I kept seeing them play it, then play other treasures that would have set it off. The chat log kept being new two-word messages from me posting, "magic lamp!" (next turn) "Magic Lamp!!" (next turn) "MAGIC LAMP!!!!"
Logged

crj

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 705
  • Respect: +824
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lamp is the dumbest card-shaped thing
« Reply #24 on: December 21, 2017, 07:31:10 pm »
+1

two Urchins
[...]
Tournament/Province
[...]
Magic Lamp

It really feels like Treasure Map ought to be mentioned in the same breath as those. Perhaps also Hermit/Madman. I also remember one tense game in which I managed to get my Champion on the table just before an opponent's Warrior engine went off, which is a kind of anti-bomb.

Magic Lamp gives you three Wishes, but you can only ever do it once. And now that I've experienced the frustration of drawing a Wish dead, I'll note it's not strictly better than Gold to have in your deck. Meanwhile, Treasure Map gives you four Golds. Top-decked. (Wish may gain you a card to hand, but the Wish itself is gained to discard.) How does the power of the benefit, the difficulty of setup, the swinginess, of Magic Lamp compare with Treasure Map?

Province/Tournament, meanwhile, gives a definite swingy advantage to whoever sets one off first. Another notable difference is that you get to keep the Province and Tournament, so can set it off again.

(Mercenary feels like the odd one out in this company, for being decidedly weaker and decidedly easier to obtain.)

Is Magic Lamp really a bigger deal than Tournament and Treasure Map?
Logged

jonts26

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2719
  • Shuffle iT Username: jonts
  • Respect: +3576
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lamp is the dumbest card-shaped thing
« Reply #25 on: December 21, 2017, 08:00:10 pm »
+3

two Urchins
[...]
Tournament/Province
[...]
Magic Lamp

It really feels like Treasure Map ought to be mentioned in the same breath as those.

The difference between those and treasure map is all of the other examples are on average very strong so you usually go for it but you might get unlucky, whereas tmap is on average very weak so you usually don't go for it, but you might get lucky if you do.
Logged

crj

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 705
  • Respect: +824
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lamp is the dumbest card-shaped thing
« Reply #26 on: December 21, 2017, 08:20:41 pm »
+1

Some kingdoms contain the tools you need to help Treasure Maps collide; some don't.

The same can be said for Province/Tournament or Magic Lamp/6 distinct uniques.

So then the question becomes: in each case, how likely is it that a random kingdom will contain the help one needs?
Logged

Seprix

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5414
  • Shuffle iT Username: Seprix
  • luck is a glitch
  • Respect: +3344
    • View Profile
    • The Border Village
Re: Magic Lamp is the dumbest card-shaped thing
« Reply #27 on: December 21, 2017, 08:26:33 pm »
0

So many insane hot takes in this thread.
Logged
WOWIE I GUESS I HAVE TO DO EVERYTHING AROUND HERE
Join Dominion Discord

jonts26

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2719
  • Shuffle iT Username: jonts
  • Respect: +3576
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lamp is the dumbest card-shaped thing
« Reply #28 on: December 21, 2017, 08:27:38 pm »
0

Some kingdoms contain the tools you need to help Treasure Maps collide; some don't.

The same can be said for Province/Tournament or Magic Lamp/6 distinct uniques.

So then the question becomes: in each case, how likely is it that a random kingdom will contain the help one needs?

With tournament or lamp? A majority of the time. With maps, a minority of the time (though you can sometime back into them as payload once you've built). This is why I said "on average". Obviously exceptions always exist.
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10580
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
  • Respect: +11003
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lamp is the dumbest card-shaped thing
« Reply #29 on: December 21, 2017, 09:35:09 pm »
+1

Treasure Map and Tournament continue to be not valid comparisons because they don't start in your deck way before your deck has any chance of doing anything consistently.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's albums for free

Chris is me

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2462
  • Shuffle iT Username: Chris is me
  • What do you want me to say?
  • Respect: +3032
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lamp is the dumbest card-shaped thing
« Reply #30 on: December 21, 2017, 10:19:07 pm »
0

Treasure Map and Tournament continue to be not valid comparisons because they don't start in your deck way before your deck has any chance of doing anything consistently.

Your deck does not start with the ability to activate Magic Lamp.

It takes fewer turns to put two Treasure Maps in your deck than it does to put four more unique cards in your deck. It can even be faster to spike Tournament and Province than getting a possible Magic Lamp.

Stop being such a pathetic whiny baby about this one card and grow the fuck up.

User was warned for this post
« Last Edit: December 21, 2017, 11:26:14 pm by theory »
Logged
Twitch channel: http://www.twitch.tv/chrisisme2791

bug me on discord

they/them

pacovf

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3297
  • Multiediting poster
  • Respect: +3638
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lamp is the dumbest card-shaped thing
« Reply #31 on: December 21, 2017, 11:12:33 pm »
+6

Treasure Map and Tournament continue to be not valid comparisons because they don't start in your deck way before your deck has any chance of doing anything consistently.

Your deck does not start with the ability to activate Magic Lamp.

It takes fewer turns to put two Treasure Maps in your deck than it does to put four more unique cards in your deck. It can even be faster to spike Tournament and Province than getting a possible Magic Lamp.

Stop being such a pathetic whiny baby about this one card and grow the fuck up.

This response is way overboard.
Logged
pacovf has a neopets account.  It has 999 hours logged.  All his neopets are named "Jessica".  I guess that must be his ex.

ipofanes

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1133
  • Shuffle iT Username: ipofanes
  • Respect: +538
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lamp is the dumbest card-shaped thing
« Reply #32 on: December 22, 2017, 03:01:14 am »
0

two Urchins
[...]
Tournament/Province
[...]
Magic Lamp

Magic Lamp gives you three Wishes, but you can only ever do it once.

...

Is Magic Lamp really a bigger deal than Tournament and Treasure Map?

One also has to take into account that Tournament prizes and Gold Treasures are topdecked (= no reshuffle before they take effect) while the cards gained with Wishes take two reshuffles before taking effect. The difference between "four Golds now" and "three strong cards some time later" is considerable (even though in many cases only 2 2/3 of the 4 topdecked Golds are effectively used so that four Golds shuffled into draw pile might even be stronger).
Logged
Lord Rattington denies my undo requests

Accatitippi

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1145
  • Shuffle iT Username: Accatitippi
  • Silver is underraided
  • Respect: +1762
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lamp is the dumbest card-shaped thing
« Reply #33 on: December 22, 2017, 03:26:35 am »
+3

two Urchins
[...]
Tournament/Province
[...]
Magic Lamp

Magic Lamp gives you three Wishes, but you can only ever do it once.

...

Is Magic Lamp really a bigger deal than Tournament and Treasure Map?

One also has to take into account that Tournament prizes and Gold Treasures are topdecked (= no reshuffle before they take effect) while the cards gained with Wishes take two reshuffles before taking effect. The difference between "four Golds now" and "three strong cards some time later" is considerable (even though in many cases only 2 2/3 of the 4 topdecked Golds are effectively used so that four Golds shuffled into draw pile might even be stronger).

One reshuffle. Wishes gain to hand. It's like lamp said, gain three cards costing up to 6. But it gives you wishes instead, so you get a bit more flexibility.
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10580
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
  • Respect: +11003
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lamp is the dumbest card-shaped thing
« Reply #34 on: December 22, 2017, 06:25:15 am »
0

It takes fewer turns to put two Treasure Maps in your deck than it does to put four more unique cards in your deck. It can even be faster to spike Tournament and Province than getting a possible Magic Lamp.

But you never buy two TMs or Tournament/Province that early, because it's not a very good play.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's albums for free

Co0kieL0rd

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 729
  • Respect: +839
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lamp is the dumbest card-shaped thing
« Reply #35 on: December 22, 2017, 06:42:02 am »
+4

I'm not arguing with the technical observations of Magic Lamp. Awaclus is certainly correct about those, but I strongly disagree with Magic Lamp being dumb.

Magic Lamp is one of my favourite cards in Nocturne. I love the minigame associated with it and had a blast every time I played with it. I can only remember one game where me and my opponent didn't activate our Lamps on consecutive turns.

I know it can be very swingy, as can a lot of other cards. But I'm of the opinion that the fun aspect of a card is an end in itself. I assume the majority of people are enjoying this card, too which is why Donald released it.
Logged
Check out my fan cards!
Dominion: Seasons - a small set Asper and I made that revolves around a unique and original mechanic
Roots and Renewal - this set is about interacting with the Supply and manipulating your opening turns
Flash cards - trying out a new concept

faust

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1971
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
  • Respect: +2756
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lamp is the dumbest card-shaped thing
« Reply #36 on: December 22, 2017, 07:06:18 am »
0

I kind of get both points of view.

I do think the minigame is fun. It is less fun if it decides the game and you end up playing just the minigame instead of a game of Dominion.

In my opinion, Leprechaun is Wish done right: You still get the minigame, but it is harder and less luck is involved (since you're allowed to play multiples). The benefit is not game-winning, and it is pretty hard to activate it twice on the same turn. Also, Gold clogging means you will struggle to keep activating it.

Magic Lamp just gives you all the stuff right away, and basically your opponent has to connect his in the same shuffle or the game is all but over.
Logged
Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

crj

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 705
  • Respect: +824
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lamp is the dumbest card-shaped thing
« Reply #37 on: December 22, 2017, 11:09:35 am »
0

I've not played with Leprechaun yet, but by inspection, the fact that you can't (easily) count treasures towards the cards in play for Leprechaun looks like a larger consideration than the "exactly", or the lack of prohibition on duplicates.

Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10580
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
  • Respect: +11003
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lamp is the dumbest card-shaped thing
« Reply #38 on: December 22, 2017, 11:23:37 am »
0

I've not played with Leprechaun yet, but by inspection, the fact that you can't (easily) count treasures towards the cards in play for Leprechaun looks like a larger consideration than the "exactly", or the lack of prohibition on duplicates.

It is a larger consideration, but you don't buy Leprechaun until you can do that consistently. You start the game with Magic Lamp in your deck.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's albums for free

Cave-o-sapien

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 783
  • Respect: +1419
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lamp is the dumbest card-shaped thing
« Reply #39 on: December 22, 2017, 11:32:42 am »
0

Your deck does not start with the ability to activate Magic Lamp.

It takes fewer turns to put two Treasure Maps in your deck than it does to put four more unique cards in your deck. It can even be faster to spike Tournament and Province than getting a possible Magic Lamp.

When playing with just one other Heirloom or Shelters (Necropolis), it's possible to activate it on turn 3. I'm not saying that's normal, but in the game I referenced earlier in this thread, my opponent activated it on turn 5.

While it sucked to be on the other end of that, I don't think it felt worse than Urchin/Urchin or Tournament or any number of other swingy events.
Logged

dedicateddan

  • 2017 Dominion Online Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 398
  • Shuffle iT Username: dan brooks
  • Respect: +1027
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lamp is the dumbest card-shaped thing
« Reply #40 on: December 22, 2017, 11:56:41 am »
+14

But you never buy Tournament/Province that early, because it's not a very good play.

I would encourage all of my tournament opponents to follow this advice :)
Logged

crj

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 705
  • Respect: +824
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lamp is the dumbest card-shaped thing
« Reply #41 on: December 22, 2017, 12:38:31 pm »
0

It is a larger consideration, but you don't buy Leprechaun until you can do that consistently. You start the game with Magic Lamp in your deck.
Do you not? $3 looks like a good price for a card that gives you early Golds in exchange for getting Hexed a bit. Leprechaun/Night Watchman, for example, looks like it would be a strong opening.
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10580
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
  • Respect: +11003
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lamp is the dumbest card-shaped thing
« Reply #42 on: December 22, 2017, 02:10:20 pm »
0

It is a larger consideration, but you don't buy Leprechaun until you can do that consistently. You start the game with Magic Lamp in your deck.
Do you not? $3 looks like a good price for a card that gives you early Golds in exchange for getting Hexed a bit. Leprechaun/Night Watchman, for example, looks like it would be a strong opening.

The problem is that you don't want to get Hexed and you don't really want too many Golds either, and Leprechaun itself is a terminal stop that doesn't give you any money.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's albums for free

greybirdofprey

  • Spy
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 80
  • Respect: +76
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lamp is the dumbest card-shaped thing
« Reply #43 on: December 22, 2017, 03:00:47 pm »
+1

It is a larger consideration, but you don't buy Leprechaun until you can do that consistently. You start the game with Magic Lamp in your deck.
Do you not? $3 looks like a good price for a card that gives you early Golds in exchange for getting Hexed a bit. Leprechaun/Night Watchman, for example, looks like it would be a strong opening.

The problem is that you don't want to get Hexed and you don't really want too many Golds either, and Leprechaun itself is a terminal stop that doesn't give you any money.

But Gold is such good trash-for-benefit fodder.
Logged

Dingan

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 1079
  • Shuffle iT Username: Dingan
  • Respect: +1558
    • View Profile
    • Website title
Re: Magic Lamp is the dumbest card-shaped thing
« Reply #44 on: December 22, 2017, 03:03:06 pm »
+2

Your deck does not start with the ability to activate Magic Lamp.

Logged

Holger

  • Tactician
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 406
  • Respect: +199
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lamp is the dumbest card-shaped thing
« Reply #45 on: December 22, 2017, 03:58:43 pm »
+9

Your deck does not start with the ability to activate Magic Lamp.



Well, I'm quite sure you can't  activate it with just your starting cards, but you CAN  activate it on turn 1: With a starting hand of ML, 3 other heirlooms and a copper, play the latter 4 to buy a Villa, then play it and Magic Lamp.   ;)
Logged

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6820
  • Respect: +7665
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lamp is the dumbest card-shaped thing
« Reply #46 on: December 23, 2017, 04:50:40 am »
+2

So how much stronger or different is it that you get a Wish instead of getting a card costing up to ? I suppose that generally the Wish is a little stronger because you can choose what you need right when you have it in your hand; but I would think that 90% of the time you'll take the same card you would have taken if you had to chose back when you got the Wish instead.

On the other hand, it has a minor drawback in that you can draw a Wish dead, and if you do, you've delayed that card yet another shuffle. If you were going to gain an Action, that doesn't matter much,because that Action would have been drawn dead anyway. But if you were gaining a Night, Treasure, or Victory card, that could matter a lot.

As a whole, Wish seems like an odd card to have; do people find it actually plays much different from "gain a card costing up to "?
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

Titandrake

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2037
  • Respect: +2403
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lamp is the dumbest card-shaped thing
« Reply #47 on: December 23, 2017, 05:22:47 am »
+4

So how much stronger or different is it that you get a Wish instead of getting a card costing up to ? I suppose that generally the Wish is a little stronger because you can choose what you need right when you have it in your hand; but I would think that 90% of the time you'll take the same card you would have taken if you had to chose back when you got the Wish instead.

On the other hand, it has a minor drawback in that you can draw a Wish dead, and if you do, you've delayed that card yet another shuffle. If you were going to gain an Action, that doesn't matter much,because that Action would have been drawn dead anyway. But if you were gaining a Night, Treasure, or Victory card, that could matter a lot.

As a whole, Wish seems like an odd card to have; do people find it actually plays much different from "gain a card costing up to "?

I haven't played with Wish that often, but yes, it is pretty different. A lot of things can change between when you gain the Wish and when you get to play it. Sometimes your money distribution is weird and you don't get to buy the cards you thought you could, sometimes you're just plain wrong about what the right card to gain was, and sometimes your hand needs a card it doesn't have.

The flavor argument for Wish is way better than any strategy argument though.
Logged
I have a blog! It's called Sorta Insightful. Check it out?

greybirdofprey

  • Spy
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 80
  • Respect: +76
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lamp is the dumbest card-shaped thing
« Reply #48 on: December 23, 2017, 05:27:29 am »
0

For people who have actually played with Wish: how does it compare to Overlord?
Aside from the obvious differences like Wish being one time only, getting them, Wish getting non-actions and $6-costs.
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10580
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
  • Respect: +11003
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lamp is the dumbest card-shaped thing
« Reply #49 on: December 23, 2017, 06:56:47 am »
+5

For people who have actually played with Wish: how does it compare to Overlord?
Aside from the obvious differences like Wish being one time only, getting them, Wish getting non-actions and $6-costs.

Well, there are really no other differences than the obvious ones.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's albums for free

ThetaSigma12

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1516
  • Shuffle iT Username: ThetaSigma12
  • Respect: +1575
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lamp is the dumbest card-shaped thing
« Reply #50 on: December 23, 2017, 08:43:40 am »
+3

For people who have actually played with Wish: how does it compare to Overlord?
Aside from the obvious differences like Wish being one time only, getting them, Wish getting non-actions and $6-costs.
Well, there are really no other differences than the obvious ones.

-Card Name
-Card Art
-Card Artist
-The fancy yellow moon at the bottom
-The shiny gold coin instead of red hexagon
-The star on the cost
-Different card text

Am I missing any?
Logged
If you have a fan card you want to be created, just post about it here! I'd love to take a look at it.

Limetime

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1232
  • Shuffle iT Username: limetime
  • Respect: +1165
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lamp is the dumbest card-shaped thing
« Reply #51 on: December 23, 2017, 08:55:30 am »
+1

I havent had much of a problem with lamp. I usually get it within one turn of my opponent.
Logged

greybirdofprey

  • Spy
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 80
  • Respect: +76
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lamp is the dumbest card-shaped thing
« Reply #52 on: December 23, 2017, 11:17:01 am »
+1

For people who have actually played with Wish: how does it compare to Overlord?
Aside from the obvious differences like Wish being one time only, getting them, Wish getting non-actions and $6-costs.

Well, there are really no other differences than the obvious ones.

But how do they play? How much of a difference do those differences make?
Logged

trivialknot

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 565
  • Respect: +904
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lamp is the dumbest card-shaped thing
« Reply #53 on: December 23, 2017, 12:48:49 pm »
0

Overlord plays very differently from Wish, because you generally get Overlord earlier, and the best case is to play Overlord as a different action at different stages of the game (e.g. Trading Post early, Groundskeeper late).

I often find myself wishing for cards that cost less than $5 because that's what's needed at the time.  I guess that means that the flexibility is doing something for me, but it often feels inefficient.

Wishes do play nicely with Conclave and Imp.
Logged

ackmondual

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 341
  • Respect: +229
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lamp is the dumbest card-shaped thing
« Reply #54 on: December 24, 2017, 04:33:39 pm »
0

Someone should play & record a Secret Cave cage match, where the first player to trigger Magic Lamp wins.  Then you continue the game just to see who would have won normally.

Can anyone remember the old days when people complained that whoever bought the first gold was sure to win? Those were good times.
"complained"?  IIRC, they're STILL doing it!
Logged
Village, +2 Actions.  Village, +3 Actions.  Village, +4 Actions.  Village, +5 Actions.  Village, +6 Actions.  Village, +7 Actions.  Workers Village, +2 Buys, +8 Actions.  End Action Phase.  No Treasures to play.  No buy.  No Night cards to play

ackmondual

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 341
  • Respect: +229
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lamp is the dumbest card-shaped thing
« Reply #55 on: December 24, 2017, 04:49:32 pm »
0

So how much stronger or different is it that you get a Wish instead of getting a card costing up to ? I suppose that generally the Wish is a little stronger because you can choose what you need right when you have it in your hand; but I would think that 90% of the time you'll take the same card you would have taken if you had to chose back when you got the Wish instead.

On the other hand, it has a minor drawback in that you can draw a Wish dead, and if you do, you've delayed that card yet another shuffle. If you were going to gain an Action, that doesn't matter much,because that Action would have been drawn dead anyway. But if you were gaining a Night, Treasure, or Victory card, that could matter a lot.

As a whole, Wish seems like an odd card to have; do people find it actually plays much different from "gain a card costing up to "?

The flexibility is the main draw.  If I have a card that needs to be just that, for the purposes of scoring (e.g. Landmarks, or various alt-Victory cards), innate functionality (player token is on it), or for maximum functionality (e.g., gain a Gold to your hand if you needed those $3 for a Province or Colony.  However, if you already have that, then get another card that gives you extra buys, or that gives you VP tokens)

Also nice for effects that look at # of gains (e.g. Monastery.. a bit thematic too ;))

Unlike Overlord, you use it to gain Duchies if it's late enough in the game.  Overlord can't copy an empty pile, nor can Wish gain you a card from that same empty pile, but if it's a card you'd like to use again, that helps with that.  Other players can shoot to empty a pile to deny you copying it.


As you may suspect, other card games have this too...
Ascension... I've gained cards to my hand, even lesser ones for the sake of synergizing (e.g. one specific "meh" card will let me transform)
7 Wonders... Halicarnassus (build a card for free from the discard) has been used to fill in voids in your tableau (e.g. more science, 1-up on military, or get the last card in a set)


For people who have actually played with Wish: how does it compare to Overlord?
Aside from the obvious differences like Wish being one time only, getting them, Wish getting non-actions and $6-costs.

Well, there are really no other differences than the obvious ones.

But how do they play? How much of a difference do those differences make?
Above post of mine should cover this.  Also add that one is earned, while the other you go into Debt for (as 8 Debt isn't quite chump change even if it is affordable via Debt's system).
« Last Edit: December 24, 2017, 04:53:58 pm by ackmondual »
Logged
Village, +2 Actions.  Village, +3 Actions.  Village, +4 Actions.  Village, +5 Actions.  Village, +6 Actions.  Village, +7 Actions.  Workers Village, +2 Buys, +8 Actions.  End Action Phase.  No Treasures to play.  No buy.  No Night cards to play

Simon Jester

  • Baron
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 56
  • Respect: +77
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lamp is the dumbest card-shaped thing
« Reply #56 on: January 05, 2018, 08:20:58 am »
+1

Ok, My experiences don't say much really, but I been in more than two games now where one player gets the bonus alone and still manage to loose. It might be stupid, idk, but it's not necessarily game breaking in any sense. Tournament was much worse in that regard in the beginning. I remember it as the one to hit the first Prize would _always_ win the first couple of games I played with it. That's not the case anymore at all and I think we certainly will come around ML in the same way. Give it time.
Logged
Unfoes are for oussys.

Asper

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4337
  • Respect: +4737
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lamp is the dumbest card-shaped thing
« Reply #57 on: January 09, 2018, 01:44:25 pm »
0

It is a larger consideration, but you don't buy Leprechaun until you can do that consistently. You start the game with Magic Lamp in your deck.
Do you not? $3 looks like a good price for a card that gives you early Golds in exchange for getting Hexed a bit. Leprechaun/Night Watchman, for example, looks like it would be a strong opening.

The problem is that you don't want to get Hexed and you don't really want too many Golds either, and Leprechaun itself is a terminal stop that doesn't give you any money.

But Gold is such good trash-for-benefit fodder.

This. Leprachaun is a really nice tfb enabler.

greybirdofprey

  • Spy
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 80
  • Respect: +76
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lamp is the dumbest card-shaped thing
« Reply #58 on: January 10, 2018, 06:26:07 am »
+1

But what's the smartest card-shaped thing?
Logged

cascadestyler

  • Thief
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 91
  • Shuffle iT Username: cascadestyler
  • Vamos Cuidadanos!
  • Respect: +116
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lamp is the dumbest card-shaped thing
« Reply #59 on: January 10, 2018, 07:04:23 am »
0

It is a larger consideration, but you don't buy Leprechaun until you can do that consistently. You start the game with Magic Lamp in your deck.
Do you not? $3 looks like a good price for a card that gives you early Golds in exchange for getting Hexed a bit. Leprechaun/Night Watchman, for example, looks like it would be a strong opening.

The problem is that you don't want to get Hexed and you don't really want too many Golds either, and Leprechaun itself is a terminal stop that doesn't give you any money.

In an Encampment/Bridge Troll game I just played, both of us opened Leprechaun and it seemed like it was probably the best strategy (I went Lep/Sage and they went Lep/Bonfire - not sure which was better but my Sage seemed to really help get the Lep gold in hand with Encampments early and I won so there's that), but I haven't seen any other board where an early Lep seems sensible, and obviously Encampment is a very extreme edge-case for valuing an early gold much, much higher than normal.
Logged
"You can't help people being right for the wrong reasons...This fear of finding oneself in bad company is not an expression of political purity; it is an expression of a lack of self-confidence."

- Arthur Koestler
Pages: 1 2 3 [All]
 

Page created in 0.224 seconds with 20 queries.