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Author Topic: Random Stuff Part IV  (Read 23488 times)

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Kuildeous

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Re: Random Stuff Part IV
« Reply #500 on: August 06, 2019, 04:30:32 pm »
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Your question comes off like "Is there a reason why my neighbor's bratty kid gets tiny little wheels on the rear wheel of his bike so that he can never fall off, doesn't he know Lance Armstrong would NEVER use those?!!?"
The extra hardcore way to write division is with multiplicative inverse. ab-1 instead of a/b.

Hell yeah!
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silverspawn

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Re: Random Stuff Part IV
« Reply #501 on: August 06, 2019, 04:33:57 pm »
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I remember being kind of upset that people were using / for because I considered a fraction 2/5 to be, in some fundamental sense, a different thing than dividing 2 by 5, even if both lead to the same result. Like, the first is a kind of number, the second is two numbers and an operation between them.

... but nowadays I tell all of my private students to use slash instead if they write or :.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2019, 04:40:21 pm by silverspawn »
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sudgy

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Re: Random Stuff Part IV
« Reply #502 on: August 06, 2019, 09:26:50 pm »
+1

Is there a legitimate reason for elementary school to teach division using the obelus symbol () rather than the fractional notation? Or even the forward slash (/) if you must type expressions on a single line?

I see some of those math puzzles on Facebook, and it bugs me because there's an obelus, and nobody who maths for a living uses the obelus. 

And many of those Facebook arguments could be quelled with a properly notated fraction, but then that doesn't generate traffic.
Children like pictures.  An obelus is a picture of a fraction, you imagine the top dot being replaced with a numerator number, and the bottom dot being replaced with a denominator number.  The "/" is a metaphor for that as well, of course, but it's not quite as clear, it has that twist of perspective to it. It's particularly tricky to imagine the left number is somehow above the right number when you're roughly 8.
It is very useful for expressing the idea that division can be treated both like a function/operand where the operator and the divisor mutate the the first term to become a different, lesser tem, but it can also be treated like a representation, where the numerator and denominator are peacefully existing on the appropriate sides of the dividing bar, each playing their role in representing some value, and both values are part of how that value is represented.  And use of the obelus emphasizes that these are both actually the same thing.  This smooths to transition to algebra.

I don't think I realized that is like a fraction until high school.  I always had treated it as an entirely separate symbol, like +, -, or .
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

Kuildeous

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Re: Random Stuff Part IV
« Reply #503 on: August 07, 2019, 09:04:17 am »
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It's interesting because the obelus combines the horizontal bar of the fraction with the colon of the ratio.

I have no idea if that's how the obelus became to be or not. It'd be kind of cool if it did. Actually, since Wikipedia says that the obelus can also be a dagger, the mishmash of bars and dots may be coincidental.

Still doesn't change the fact that it's taught early on and then abandoned, so maybe we shouldn't teach it anymore.
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LostPhoenix

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Re: Random Stuff Part IV
« Reply #504 on: September 17, 2019, 08:55:05 pm »
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Is there a legitimate reason for elementary school to teach division using the obelus symbol () rather than the fractional notation? Or even the forward slash (/) if you must type expressions on a single line?

I see some of those math puzzles on Facebook, and it bugs me because there's an obelus, and nobody who maths for a living uses the obelus. 

And many of those Facebook arguments could be quelled with a properly notated fraction, but then that doesn't generate traffic.
Children like pictures.  An obelus is a picture of a fraction, you imagine the top dot being replaced with a numerator number, and the bottom dot being replaced with a denominator number.  The "/" is a metaphor for that as well, of course, but it's not quite as clear, it has that twist of perspective to it. It's particularly tricky to imagine the left number is somehow above the right number when you're roughly 8.
It is very useful for expressing the idea that division can be treated both like a function/operand where the operator and the divisor mutate the the first term to become a different, lesser tem, but it can also be treated like a representation, where the numerator and denominator are peacefully existing on the appropriate sides of the dividing bar, each playing their role in representing some value, and both values are part of how that value is represented.  And use of the obelus emphasizes that these are both actually the same thing.  This smooths to transition to algebra.

I don't think I realized that is like a fraction until high school.  I always had treated it as an entirely separate symbol, like +, -, or .

As a kid, I always thought it was a visual representation of division: a group of two dots being divided in half by a line.
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Kuildeous

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Re: Random Stuff Part IV
« Reply #505 on: September 18, 2019, 09:00:50 am »
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It makes me wonder if there is a benefit to teaching with the obelus as a representation of a fraction instead of teaching the fraction itself.

But Im not in elementary education, so I dont have a lot of firsthand experience on that.

It just feels like the obelus is still being used because its whats already in use.
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jonts26

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Re: Random Stuff Part IV
« Reply #506 on: September 18, 2019, 09:09:25 am »
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If you stopped using the obelus this is what you get

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Maxford

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Re: Random Stuff Part IV
« Reply #507 on: October 05, 2019, 05:54:51 pm »
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Experiment: Can I post here to make the Verification thing go away?
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Tables

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Re: Random Stuff Part IV
« Reply #508 on: October 05, 2019, 06:08:57 pm »
+1

Experiment: Can I post here to make the Verification thing go away?

People do it all the time.

By which I mean, like, you're maybe the 5th in the several years these random stuff threads have been up. All the time.
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...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.
I hereby declare myself the best dominion player in the world. Obviously.

Kuildeous

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Re: Random Stuff Part IV
« Reply #509 on: October 11, 2019, 11:21:28 am »
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Wow, the view counts are insane right now.
The maths thread has 103k views. The movies thread has 136k views. The random stuff 4 thread has 21k views. The roguelike games thread has 114k views.

I mean, I know were some fascinating motherfuckers out there, but this is silly. Those poor bots.
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Tables

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Re: Random Stuff Part IV
« Reply #510 on: October 11, 2019, 12:43:19 pm »
+1

Having finished both Pandemic Legacy games I got thinking about what game or genre could be awesome with a legacy style game. And I feel like a Civilisation style game is the ideal fit. Through the Ages Legacy could work, I'm certain - each game advances through a few ages, starting very early with like ancient and classical era stuff but based on what people research, everyone starts with more and more techs until you're playing a modern era game. You could have civilisations who have special abilities, and the civilisations that win (not the players) gain bonuses each game, but also some civs die out every now and then so there's no super monster Rome with 10 win bonuses in the late game.

Anyway, just my random thought. I feel like a civ builder is the ideal format for a legacy game and I'm kind of surprised there isn't one (at least there isn't one that's well known)
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...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.
I hereby declare myself the best dominion player in the world. Obviously.

faust

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Re: Random Stuff Part IV
« Reply #511 on: October 11, 2019, 03:05:53 pm »
+2

Having finished both Pandemic Legacy games I got thinking about what game or genre could be awesome with a legacy style game. And I feel like a Civilisation style game is the ideal fit. Through the Ages Legacy could work, I'm certain - each game advances through a few ages, starting very early with like ancient and classical era stuff but based on what people research, everyone starts with more and more techs until you're playing a modern era game. You could have civilisations who have special abilities, and the civilisations that win (not the players) gain bonuses each game, but also some civs die out every now and then so there's no super monster Rome with 10 win bonuses in the late game.

Anyway, just my random thought. I feel like a civ builder is the ideal format for a legacy game and I'm kind of surprised there isn't one (at least there isn't one that's well known)
I heard that there is work happening on a Terraforming Mars Legacy game, which kind of fits this description.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.
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