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Author Topic: Random Stuff Part IV  (Read 16278 times)

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Kuildeous

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Re: Random Stuff Part IV
« Reply #425 on: March 13, 2019, 08:07:32 am »
+1

It is a nebulous enough term that its usefulness is questionable.

I've seen it used many times in an attempt to shut someone down. That guy arguing for the legalization of gay marriage? He just virtue-signaling, so we can ignore his arguments. He only cares because his girlfriend does.

It might not even be true, but the mere act of calling someone out on virtue-signaling shifts the focus from the actual argument itself to the person's intentions. With a few choice words, you paint the altruistic as opportunistic. 

It's become one of those internet buzzwords that requires scrutiny because it can be used to effectively shut down constructive talk. See also: Mansplaining, sealioning, SJW.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Random Stuff Part IV
« Reply #426 on: March 13, 2019, 08:31:10 am »
0

Help me remember a phrase... what is it called when you take advantage of a situation to make sure people know where you stand on an issue? Like, if a racist act were in the news, and you post about how you think it was such a horrible thing, because you really want people to know that you think racism is bad.

Its like lip service, but different. Lip service is more about not doing anything more than just talking about something. The thing Im thinking of is more about the desire for people to know where you stand.

Virtue-signaling?

That's it, thanks!
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silverspawn

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Re: Random Stuff Part IV
« Reply #427 on: March 13, 2019, 08:43:31 am »
0

It is a nebulous enough term that its usefulness is questionable.

I've seen it used many times in an attempt to shut someone down. That guy arguing for the legalization of gay marriage? He just virtue-signaling, so we can ignore his arguments. He only cares because his girlfriend does.

It might not even be true, but the mere act of calling someone out on virtue-signaling shifts the focus from the actual argument itself to the person's intentions. With a few choice words, you paint the altruistic as opportunistic. 

It's become one of those internet buzzwords that requires scrutiny because it can be used to effectively shut down constructive talk. See also: Mansplaining, sealioning, SJW.

You're not completely wrong, which is unfortunate, because I do genuinely think that most of what drives most people (in rich societies) most of the time is signaling. if you want a precise definition, "a method of conveying information by performing an action that is more likely if the information is true vs false". If you're arguing for gay marriage so that people think you're pro gay marriage rather than to achieve outcomes, then you're signaling. If you're arguing to achieve outcomes, then signaling would be a byproduct.

Afaik almost all evidence that distinguishes between the two shows that the signaling function is most of the story wrt to people's motivations in most contexts.
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faust

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Re: Random Stuff Part IV
« Reply #428 on: March 13, 2019, 08:50:42 am »
0

You're not completely wrong, which is unfortunate, because I do genuinely think that most of what drives most people (in rich societies) most of the time is signaling. if you want a precise definition, "a method of conveying information by performing an action that is more likely if the information is true vs false". If you're arguing for gay marriage so that people think you're pro gay marriage rather than to achieve outcomes, then you're signaling. If you're arguing to achieve outcomes, then signaling would be a byproduct.

Afaik almost all evidence that distinguishes between the two shows that the signaling function is most of the story wrt to people's motivations in most contexts.
It's an interesting distinction that I don't think works completely. A common argument people make for speaking up on issues is "I do not want to create the impression that view XY is considered acceptable on this platform" - i.e., you are using signaling in order to achieve an outcome.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Random Stuff Part IV
« Reply #429 on: March 13, 2019, 09:25:56 am »
0

I've always thought if it in terms of intent. If your primary motivation for speaking out against racism is that you want people to see that you aren't a racist, then that's virtue signaling.
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markusin

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Re: Random Stuff Part IV
« Reply #430 on: March 13, 2019, 10:17:26 am »
+1

I also think "virtue signaling" is a rather nebulous term because its existence is heavily tied to the use of social media. Like, it's perfectly reasonable to be against racism or accepting of gay marriage, but it's not something you bring up immediately upon starting a conversation. In person, you'll generally want to discuss socio-political views as the topic comes up. But on social media, the social media user often has to "fill the void of silence" themselves, and so they'll want to say things that paint them in a good light. I mean, what else are you going to say if you feel compelled to say something? "80% of human behaviour" sounds about right.

Now, "virtue signaling" as a term probably came up from the other social media users that don't care what people's opinion about stuff is but have to see it in their news feed anyway. Kind of like a collective eye-roll. But I guess it gets more messy when people are banned "for their beliefs" from whatever website.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2019, 10:19:02 am by markusin »
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faust

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Re: Random Stuff Part IV
« Reply #431 on: March 13, 2019, 10:30:54 am »
0

Now, "virtue signaling" as a term probably came up from the other social media users that don't care what people's opinion about stuff is but have to see it in their news feed anyway. Kind of like a collective eye-roll. But I guess it gets more messy when people are banned "for their beliefs" from whatever website.
Meh, I think that ignores the distinct political agenda behind the term. Personally I find happiness signaling way more obnoxious on social media, yet that is not a thing. Virtue signaling is because it can be used to shut down unwanted opinions.
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silverspawn

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Re: Random Stuff Part IV
« Reply #432 on: March 13, 2019, 01:37:16 pm »
0

You're not completely wrong, which is unfortunate, because I do genuinely think that most of what drives most people (in rich societies) most of the time is signaling. if you want a precise definition, "a method of conveying information by performing an action that is more likely if the information is true vs false". If you're arguing for gay marriage so that people think you're pro gay marriage rather than to achieve outcomes, then you're signaling. If you're arguing to achieve outcomes, then signaling would be a byproduct.

Afaik almost all evidence that distinguishes between the two shows that the signaling function is most of the story wrt to people's motivations in most contexts.
It's an interesting distinction that I don't think works completely. A common argument people make for speaking up on issues is "I do not want to create the impression that view XY is considered acceptable on this platform" - i.e., you are using signaling in order to achieve an outcome.

If the stated outcome has signaling in it, I'd still put it in the "stated outcome" box rather than the "signaling" box. But you can't take people at their word. Just because they say they do it to defend an image of their platform doesn't mean that's the real reason.

I agree that the 'virtue' part is buzzword-ish. People can and do signal all kinds of stuff, including intelligence and wealth and happiness which are probably not virtues.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: Random Stuff Part IV
« Reply #433 on: March 13, 2019, 03:44:25 pm »
+1

People can and do signal all kinds of stuff, including wealth which are probably not virtues.

Why do you hate America?
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Witherweaver

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Re: Random Stuff Part IV
« Reply #434 on: March 13, 2019, 09:51:42 pm »
0

I've spent significantly more time on this forum than I have actually playing Dominion.

Is Dominion a new Forum Game?
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silverspawn

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Re: Random Stuff Part IV
« Reply #435 on: March 14, 2019, 01:53:26 pm »
0

People can and do signal all kinds of stuff, including wealth which are probably not virtues.

Why do you hate America?

There is no good response!
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GendoIkari

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Re: Random Stuff Part IV
« Reply #436 on: March 14, 2019, 02:28:35 pm »
+1

I've spent significantly more time on this forum than I have actually playing Dominion.

Is Dominion a new Forum Game?

Actually, Forum is a new(ish) card in Dominion.
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Cuzz

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Re: Random Stuff Part IV
« Reply #437 on: March 14, 2019, 04:09:46 pm »
+2

I've spent significantly more time on this forum than I have actually playing Dominion.

Is Dominion a new Forum Game?

Actually, Forum is a new(ish) card in Dominion.

Spending time here is strictly better than spending time on warehouse.dominionstrategy.com.
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infangthief

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Re: Random Stuff Part IV
« Reply #438 on: March 14, 2019, 04:25:02 pm »
0

I've spent significantly more time on this forum than I have actually playing Dominion.

Is Dominion a new Forum Game?
It seems a particularly unsuitable game candidate for playing by forum.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Random Stuff Part IV
« Reply #439 on: March 14, 2019, 11:21:07 pm »
0

I've spent significantly more time on this forum than I have actually playing Dominion.

Is Dominion a new Forum Game?

Actually, Forum is a new(ish) card in Dominion.

So do they talk about Dominion in there?
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Kuildeous

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Re: Random Stuff Part IV
« Reply #440 on: April 02, 2019, 05:53:56 pm »
+2

Guys, I want you to admire the sheer awfulness of this video:
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=2152518584824850

It's an ad for an online game, but I've seen enough complaints from people that I have no desire to download the POS, and I advise that nobody else downloads it either. Just look at this masterful video. What's wrong with it? I think the harder question is what did they do right? Anything? You can mute it. Listening to the audio does not improve the video any, nor does it make the video worse, despite it sounding like a 10-year-old girl punching a stuffed animal.

But let's examine the story here. This woman, whose name is apparently Riffarff, is wrongfully imprisoned for having a fully articulated right ankle. She uses this ankle to her advantage and swivels it around to gain the proper leverage to punch a concrete wall but to no avail.

Then MacGyver walks by and gives her this experimental super-serum in a Coke bottle. This wonder drug causes her to grow a few inches, change her name from Riffarff to Riffraff, and perform a wonder punch that makes the wall bleed gold coins.

This is just the windfall the previously named Riffarff needed, and now she is the queen of her domain, which is only that tiny cell since she still is incapable of punching our metal bars.

The end.

Man, can't wait for the sequel here.


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silverspawn

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Re: Random Stuff Part IV
« Reply #441 on: April 19, 2019, 06:39:18 pm »
+1

I was just playing a game of dominion, suspecting nothing...

Then my opponent played Black market and suddenly POSSESSION STARED AT ME. I DID NOT KNOW IT WAS POSSIBLE.

and I felt the horror slowly creeping up as they were playing their treasures one by one, getting over 6$, and then... then they played their potion...

... and then...

... they put it back and bought a philosopher's stone instead because they didn't like the card either. Possession actually would have been strong, too.
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hhelibebcnofnena

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Re: Random Stuff Part IV
« Reply #442 on: April 21, 2019, 09:20:01 pm »
+1

I very nearly played a game recently which included both Possession and Procession. It would have gotten confusing.
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Kuildeous

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Re: Random Stuff Part IV
« Reply #443 on: May 01, 2019, 09:23:16 am »
+1

When I reach 60 years old, I hope technology has not surpassed me to the point where I have to ask a complete stranger how to start my car.

I parked my car last night and was flagged down by a neighbor. He's 60 years old and been driving the same pickup truck for a while. That got rear-ended, and he came back with a rental, a new Nissan Sentra. And he could not figure out how to start the car with keyless ignition. I was able to show him that. Then he needed to figure out how to open the gas tank. Admittedly, I had a hard time finding that, but I guess another difference between his life experiences and mine is that I quickly concluded that I could find out with a Google search. Once he realized that most of his car questions could likely be solved with Google, he felt better, but that just wasn't the first thing he thought of.
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Awaclus

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Re: Random Stuff Part IV
« Reply #444 on: May 01, 2019, 09:35:49 am »
0

When I reach 60 years old, I hope technology has not surpassed me to the point where I have to ask a complete stranger how to start my car.

I parked my car last night and was flagged down by a neighbor. He's 60 years old and been driving the same pickup truck for a while. That got rear-ended, and he came back with a rental, a new Nissan Sentra. And he could not figure out how to start the car with keyless ignition. I was able to show him that. Then he needed to figure out how to open the gas tank. Admittedly, I had a hard time finding that, but I guess another difference between his life experiences and mine is that I quickly concluded that I could find out with a Google search. Once he realized that most of his car questions could likely be solved with Google, he felt better, but that just wasn't the first thing he thought of.

They could also be solved by RTFM.
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SpaceAnemone

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Re: Random Stuff Part IV
« Reply #445 on: May 02, 2019, 05:21:39 am »
0

They could also be solved by RTFM.

I was on a work trip in Germany with a French colleague a couple of years ago. We needed to check up on something about the car we'd hired, so I, as the passenger, tried to RTFM... and it was entirely in Czech.
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faust

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Re: Random Stuff Part IV
« Reply #446 on: May 02, 2019, 05:50:00 am »
0

They could also be solved by RTFM.

I was on a work trip in Germany with a French colleague a couple of years ago. We needed to check up on something about the car we'd hired, so I, as the passenger, tried to RTFM... and it was entirely in Czech.
Now I understand what inspired you to learn Czech!
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SpaceAnemone

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Re: Random Stuff Part IV
« Reply #447 on: May 02, 2019, 06:40:26 am »
0

They could also be solved by RTFM.

I was on a work trip in Germany with a French colleague a couple of years ago. We needed to check up on something about the car we'd hired, so I, as the passenger, tried to RTFM... and it was entirely in Czech.
Now I understand what inspired you to learn Czech!

Haha :-) It's definitely true that without knowing the Czechs who actually inspired me to learn, I probably wouldn't have been able to identify the handbook's language as Czech in particular.
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Kuildeous

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Re: Random Stuff Part IV
« Reply #448 on: May 02, 2019, 08:16:56 am »
0

This guy certainly could've benefited from RTFM. That's also assuming that the rental included the manual. I've had a rental without one. Most likely this guy was accustomed to cars starting a certain way and was flummoxed by the lack of key. It would've been helpful if the rental car agency showed him how to start the car. I imagine the agent simply brought the car out and left it running, which is why the guy didn't know how to start it.

But there does seem to be a trend to move away from manuals as a default. Maybe we're just getting better at teaching people how to use technology and making interfaces intuitive. For example, when I played a video game in the '80s, I would read the manual first to make sure I understood all my capabilities. Nowadays, games tend to ease players into the instructions. Manuals are mostly used for reference and not instructions.

And actually the keyless ignition follows that trend as well. Sure, he could've read it the manual, but I noticed the dashboard showing those exact instructions to press on the brake and push the button. I'm not sure why he ignored it. Maybe it was a fear of screwing something up, so he didn't want to attempt it. Maybe it's the combination of brake and button that baffled him because those two don't normally go together. No idea. He didn't RTFM, but he could've RTFD.

I just hope I don't feel that helpless at 60.
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Kuildeous

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Re: Random Stuff Part IV
« Reply #449 on: May 08, 2019, 01:25:03 pm »
0

Thanks to Facebook memories, I am reminded of a rather heated exchange I had with a friend who turned out to be a toxic narcissist. It was such a stupid argument, but I'm reminded of just how self-centered people can be.

The topic was simply me letting others know that wishing a stranger a happy Mother's Day may be insensitive since you don't know if she's barren or lost a child. That could be a painful thing to say to her. Even if the woman has a child with her, that might still be painful, though statistically, you're probably safe wishing her a happy Mother's Day if there's a child with her.

And this guy went off the rails griping that I want to stifle free speech and that people get so easily offended and how other people's feelings are more important than his freedom to be nice to people.

I was tempted to delete that conversation because of how ridiculous it got, but I like to keep as a reminder to stay away from other people's bullshit.
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