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Author Topic: Dominion: Ice Age  (Read 48819 times)

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Chappy7

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Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #150 on: March 13, 2018, 06:52:33 pm »
+1

I think I'd rather just buy Smithies than Mountain Outpost.  I'm not sure what I'd do to change it though, so I guess this isn't a very helpful reply
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Asper

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Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #151 on: March 14, 2018, 03:35:37 am »
+1

Ice Queening a Hireling looks as if it could potentially be strong.

With the current wording it's identical to Throne Room due to lose-track, isn't it?

I feel the current Mountain Outpost is an improvement.
Igloo is a tad similar to Royal Seal, but at first glance it seems fine.
I feel Outrider has the issue that Donald described about his attempts at buy-reserves: You call it just to get it back.
Sleigh now reminds me of my failed "Barkeep" concept. IIsn't it just so that all Sleighs in your deck -1 ARE Labs? You'll just try to get as many of this as you can, I'm afraid.
I'm not sure how I feel about rediscover. It kinda feels like the type of card you could get away with doing as a Night type, especially as I think it being a cantrip is rather generous. If I'm not mistaken, you can call it to remodel itself.
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Gazbag

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Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #152 on: March 14, 2018, 06:07:37 am »
0

Ice Queening a Hireling looks as if it could potentially be strong.

With the current wording it's identical to Throne Room due to lose-track, isn't it?
Ice Queen would still get discarded at cleanup and you'd get the Hireling back after ages and have +2 cards each turn so it's pretty good yeah. I don't think there's any losing track involved.

I feel the current Mountain Outpost is an improvement.
Igloo is a tad similar to Royal Seal, but at first glance it seems fine.
I feel Outrider has the issue that Donald described about his attempts at buy-reserves: You call it just to get it back.
Sleigh now reminds me of my failed "Barkeep" concept. IIsn't it just so that all Sleighs in your deck -1 ARE Labs? You'll just try to get as many of this as you can, I'm afraid.
I'm not sure how I feel about rediscover. It kinda feels like the type of card you could get away with doing as a Night type, especially as I think it being a cantrip is rather generous. If I'm not mistaken, you can call it to remodel itself.

Mountain Outpost- Sweet, seems clear to me that you'd buy 2 Mountain Outposts and the rest Smithies if they're both available.

Igloo: Seems more comparable to Tracker than Seal no?

Outrider: I think you're wrong about this for 2 reasons. 1. Outrider stinks, why the hell am I trying to get a non-terminal Survivors back into my deck? 2. Frozen Wilderness is an incentive to save up buys. I mean it still might not work, but I'm never calling this unless I need the +buy.

Sleigh: No, it's got that tortured wording so that this isn't the case. 1st Sleigh goes to Tavern mat, 2nd doesn't because one is already there, then you can call the 1st, then the 3rd would go to the mat and so on. I mean I'm normally trying to get as many Chariot Races or Wishing Wells or Villages or whatever as possible so i don't think that's a problem? It's just the nature of cantrip cards really?

Rediscover: Still needs more of a rethink, I'm defo not adding nights to this set and it doesn't need to be a night so no night! It should say another or even non-Rediscover to stop that yeah.
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Asper

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Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #153 on: March 14, 2018, 07:41:42 am »
+2

Oh dear, looks like I gave some very premature feedback there. Usually I read more carefully. For some reason I thought Outrider was a cantrip and I don't know where I got the idea that Hireling would be lost track of... I also misread Sleigh. It looks good, although of course there's the option to just make it "If you played an even number of Sleighs this turn: +1 Card".

Sorry for my poor reading skills...
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Gazbag

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Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #154 on: March 14, 2018, 11:15:13 am »
0

Yeah no worries, I hope I wasn't too defensive there, I really appreciate all the great feedback you give!

I did realise Sleigh was just a kind of over complicated Journey token thing, Idol wording means that they don't carry over between turns but it's much simpler so maybe that's worth the loss. I was just trying to get fancy with reserves to be honest.
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Holunder9

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Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #155 on: March 16, 2018, 06:22:01 am »
0

I dislike the new Igloo as it is vulnerable to handsize attacks. I also don't consider the old one to have been overpowered. Terminal space is usually limited so you have to think hard about whether that extra card is really worth the action.
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Gazbag

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Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #156 on: March 17, 2018, 04:58:25 pm »
0

I dislike the new Igloo as it is vulnerable to handsize attacks. I also don't consider the old one to have been overpowered. Terminal space is usually limited so you have to think hard about whether that extra card is really worth the action.

The new one is a bit stronger unless there's a handsize attack, so there's that!

Here's a simpler non-reserve version of Sleigh, you can't save this up for next turn so it's a little weaker but it seems worth the simpler wording.


And here's a nerfed Rediscover. It was pretty obviously overpowered on reflection, not quite sure what I was thinking!

You need to build up a bit before you can use it and it gets harder and harder to call multiples in one turn as you trash cards from play.

And a couple of new reserves:

Gatherer:

Counting House and Harbinger type things always get flak for not working if the discard is empty, so I thought something looking at the discard was a good fit for a reserve effect. It gives a Coin token that you can save for the big turn when you topdeck 2 things. Is this too weak? Would it be op with +1 Action?

Spelunkers:

I've had this discard 3 to gain a Gold to hand thing floating around for a while, thought I'd try it on a reserve. Too boring? I like that it's tricky to incorporate in an engine because you have to discard at the start of turn. Probably would have to make sure it isn't broken in big money I guess, I doubt it is though. Seems really good to open with so I costed it at $5, is that reasonable? 
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Holunder9

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Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #157 on: March 18, 2018, 12:12:06 pm »
+1

Gatherer looks weak to me.

I like Spelunkers, kind of a mixture of The Sky's Gift and Secret Cave. It doesn't look overpowered to me. Sure, it's a cantrip but it is also a Reserve that you can only play every second turn and discarding 3 cards is a significant cost. Also, in an engine you might sometimes prefer the Coins (of Secret Cave) over the Gold.
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Chappy7

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Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #158 on: March 18, 2018, 02:47:11 pm »
0

I don't think gatherer is weak.  If you have any kind of engine that is village + draw, this is really nice.  If you just have a village in hand, you can top-deck a smithy.  If you just have a smithy, top-deck two treasures.  It would also be decent in really junky games.  You can recycle the few good cards you have in your deck. Plus you could afford it even with a hand of curse curse estate copper copper.  The coin token works great here too
I really like it as a reserve.  That seems to fix the Counting house/Settlers/Harbinger problem nicely. 
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Holunder9

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Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #159 on: March 18, 2018, 03:08:01 pm »
0

I really like it as a reserve.  That seems to fix the Counting house/Settlers/Harbinger problem nicely.
At the cost of making the card a terminal Coin token. Harbinger might sometimes misfire but it never hurts. With sifting/discarding it can also sometimes be smartly used midturn.
Gatherer can also hurt you if you have only one good card in your discard pile. We know that from Herald's overpay ability.
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Gazbag

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Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #160 on: March 18, 2018, 03:09:37 pm »
0

I really like it as a reserve.  That seems to fix the Counting house/Settlers/Harbinger problem nicely.
At the cost of making the card terminal. Harbinger might sometimes misfire but it never hurts. With sifting/discarding it can also sometimes be smartly used midturn.
Gatherer can also hurt you if you have only one good card in your discard pile. We know that from Herald's overpay ability.

Gatherer costs $2 so it shouldn't be particularly strong. It's also up to 2, so if you have 1 good card you can still just topdeck that. I'd like to end up about as strong as Tracker, perhaps topdecking 3 wouldn't be too much.
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Thanar

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Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #161 on: March 19, 2018, 02:01:00 am »
0

Another way to buff Gatherer a bit would be to add +1 Action to the "above the line" part (akin to the $2 costing Candlestick Maker)
« Last Edit: March 19, 2018, 02:02:30 am by Thanar »
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Gazbag

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Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #162 on: March 20, 2018, 11:38:45 am »
0

Artefact

Oops this was supposed to cost $5, like a Contraband variant, but instead of blocking things it slows them down, but oh no it speeds up Victories! So it doesn't become a broken Gold when you're buying the greens, also speeds up Nights, but a lot those are gained to hand so it still messes a lot of them up!

Wanderer

Inspired by Aspers Road, from his Town/Road combo. This is limited to 2 plays per turn, so no Champion nonsense. Even with no Villages this can be played on later turns, like having a Smithy in reserve so it's never "just a Moat". I think this is pretty sweet, doing something new with reserves and it seems pretty well balanced at $3 to me?
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Ghacob

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Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #163 on: March 20, 2018, 12:35:50 pm »
0

Artefact needs some rewording. As of now, the "Otherwise" clause is completely nonsensical.
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Gazbag

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Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #164 on: March 20, 2018, 12:45:35 pm »
0

Artefact needs some rewording. As of now, the "Otherwise" clause is completely nonsensical.

Care to explain? I think it's pretty obvious how the card works and I'd rather make sure it's actually a good card before worrying about the perfect wording. As an example Jester uses "otherwise" wording so it's not as if it's a thing I made up, was this changed in 2nd ed? Because I'm not too bothered if that's the case, note the lack of "coffers" wording.
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Ghacob

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Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #165 on: March 20, 2018, 01:19:57 pm »
+1

More specifically, you need to add "..a card, if it is.." to the when gain statement. Right now the otherwise clause reads "If you don't gain an Action or Treasure, put it [no antecedent] on top of your deck"
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Gazbag

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Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #166 on: March 20, 2018, 02:14:54 pm »
+1

More specifically, you need to add "..a card, if it is.." to the when gain statement. Right now the otherwise clause reads "If you don't gain an Action or Treasure, put it [no antecedent] on top of your deck"

Oh I see what you mean now, it needs to say "when you gain a card, if it's an action or victory...Otherwise..." I'll change it when I get round to changing the cost... thanks for pointing that out! The problem wasn't with the otherwise clause, it was with the first one.
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #167 on: March 20, 2018, 02:39:45 pm »
+1

Wanderer is very confusing. I'm assuming that playing it from your Tavern Mat uses up an Action? When the official cards say "play" or "you may play" the playing doesn't use up an action, so this is a break from that. Also, all of the official Reserve cards are "called" from the Tavern Mat, not "played," and they can only be called at times specified on the cards. There are no rules on "playing" a card from the Mat, and a time is not specified. Can I "play" it at literally any time, including the Buy phase?
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Gazbag

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Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #168 on: March 20, 2018, 03:02:57 pm »
+1

Wanderer is very confusing. I'm assuming that playing it from your Tavern Mat uses up an Action? When the official cards say "play" or "you may play" the playing doesn't use up an action, so this is a break from that. Also, all of the official Reserve cards are "called" from the Tavern Mat, not "played," and they can only be called at times specified on the cards. There are no rules on "playing" a card from the Mat, and a time is not specified. Can I "play" it at literally any time, including the Buy phase?

It uses up an action, you can only play it any time you could play an action. I considered saying "You may play this from your Tavern mat as if it was in your hand." would that be clearer?
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Holunder9

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Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #169 on: March 20, 2018, 03:09:58 pm »
0

I like the card, a simple and good take on the +2 Cards family.

How about: "At the start of your Action phase or directly after resolving an Action, you may spend an Action to discard this from your Tavern mat for +2 Cards."
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ConMan

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Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #170 on: March 20, 2018, 06:00:45 pm »
0

I agree, maybe something like:

"+2 Cards
Put this on your tavern mat.
---
During your Action phase, you may spend an action to call this. If you do, +2 Cards."
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Holunder9

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Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #171 on: March 21, 2018, 04:44:19 am »
+1

I like Artefact but 6 Ice tokens seems way too much given that an average game of Dominion takes less than 20 turns.
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Marcory

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Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #172 on: March 23, 2018, 04:43:39 am »
0

I agree, maybe something like:

"+2 Cards
Put this on your tavern mat.
---
During your Action phase, you may spend an action to call this. If you do, +2 Cards."

Would it be easier to just remove the Reserve part, and say "If this is the first time you played Wanderer this turn, you may put this in your hand"?
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Asper

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Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #173 on: March 23, 2018, 09:19:49 pm »
+1

Every Champion game has Champion nonsense. It's called Warrior. Every Champion game is also broken and luck-driven, and I feel not the slightest remorse for Champion games with Road being broken and luck-driven. I guess it should be fixed, but well, so should Warrior. That card is easily second in my worst list. And in the end of the day, hey, if you have Road and Champion, just draw your deck, and then if you have discard for benefit, calculate the max you get, win the game. People usually don't starve revealing Moat for eternity, either.
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #174 on: March 23, 2018, 11:31:19 pm »
0

Warrior's potential for brokenness is capped by a number of things: There's only 5 of them, it takes a long time to get them, and Treasure Hunter makes it harder to draw your deck. Warrior's draw often turns out to be disappointingly wimpy if there's terrible/non-existent trashing and your Treasure Hunters enter a feedback loop with your opponent.

Road, on the other hand... the only cap is where it ends up after you shuffle. And possibly Enchantress.
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