Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 9  All

Author Topic: Dominion: Ice Age  (Read 48825 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Co0kieL0rd

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 743
  • Respect: +863
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #75 on: December 17, 2017, 02:57:34 pm »
+1

I wish I had found earlier the leisure to comment on the second batch of cards you posted. You set high standards for yourself with the first bunch and the others don't disappoint!

Mountain Village
and Snow Hag: Good to see you're taking other people's criticism into account. These are reasonable nerfs. With this many Ice tokens, MV and Curses, respectively, should be almost guaranteed to miss the shuffle which I think was neccessary to balance these cards.

Campsite: A clever Village variant. I'm surprised this doesn't exist, yet. The reason might be that this is crazy in any engine that draws the deck, though it's only marginally useful while you're still building it. A ways to circumvent this, which I'm sure has been suggested already, is to make you pay $1 or $2 per Campsite you want to topdeck. As another note, this fits very well in a Coin token-based expansion.

Pioneer: This card is fine and balanced but, as you pointed out, might result in too much searching and shuffling. You could always just row back and turn this into an actual Peddler with the on-gain effect. This would be a definitive buff as it would allow you to trash your Coppers. Since searching for Coppers could quickly become annoying, and for the sake of simplicity, I'd say just make it a Peddler.

Sleigh: A cute card that starts out worse than Wishing Well but gets better the more you play in a row. That said, you pretty much commit to Sleighs when you start buying them. That means there will be games where it's not worth going for them at all, and that's fine for a $3-cost card, which they can't all be the best, anyway.

Hunter: I don't know. It seems convoluted and could use some paragraphs. It should say "You may discard a Treasure." Now onto the bonuses; they're hard to assess. Discarding an Action for +1 Action seems like it will be a mistake too often, especially considering you may discard a Victory card last. Hunter is expensive so that should be the first thing you do. It's not like the other two bonuses are particularly strong, either.

Barbarian: I like the idea a lot but the card is weak as-is. Without the attack it would be fine, probably a bit too weak for $4. But to use the attack you need to save 4 Coin tokens which means you basically played 4 terminal Coppers (the fourth with an attack attached that's random and mediocre)! You could try it at $3 or reduce the number of Coin tokens needed for the attack. With enough playtesting you should get this unique concept to work out.

Cargo Ship: Another clever idea but, alas, weak again. The only way this is better than Salvager is it gives Coin tokens instead of $. But they are delayed, Cargo Ship doesn't have +buy, Salvager is faster at spiking high-cost targets and trashes more often, except if you only trash $0-cost cards with Cargo Ship (which would be terribly slow). This needs a vanilla bonus (I suggest +1 Card, +1 Action) to be any good. Alternatively, it could cost $4 but then it would still only situationally be viable, and ignorable in many Kingdoms.
Logged
Check out my fan cards!
Dominion: Seasons - a small set Asper and I made that revolves around a unique and original mechanic
Roots and Renewal - this set is about interacting with the Supply and manipulating your opening turns
Flash cards - trying out a new concept

Gazbag

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 735
  • Shuffle iT Username: Gazbag
  • Respect: +1003
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #76 on: December 17, 2017, 07:07:44 pm »
0

Okay here's a new thing and some changes/updates/thoughts. I've updated the OP with stuff too.

Seer

Here it is the Seer, now the on play effect is very similar to Barbarian, but I have a new Barbarian because the old one wasn't going down well. So hopefully this is a bit better. When you pay the tokens you only add Ice tokens to your Avalanche, if that wasn't clear.

Avalanche


Yep there it is, Avalanches are very similar to Saboteurs it turns out. 15 seems like a good number for Avalanche, not too fast that it becomes oppressive every time and not too slow as to never matter. There are also ways to make this hurt not so much, mainly just gaining expendable cards, Silver gainers and stuff like that. I'm using Violet CLM's image generator for these which doesn't have a template for States, so sorry about that.

New Barbarian


Okay so Barbarian is now a Coin token Oasis. That is very probably too good for $4, but maybe it's borderline? It could have an on-gain penalty maybe if it's a little too powerful. It should be much easier to get the attack going now that it's non-terminal. Also a note that I think I forgot to mention before is that this particular attack is very devastating early on, when your hands are basically one $3-$4 card and Estates/Copper. Which is the logic behind why I chose this particular attack to be delayed by the tokens like this.

Cargo Ship buff


Cargo ship was on the weak side, but was in an awkward position where it was a bit too good at $4 so I made it a little better at trashing Coppers.

Igloo

This snowy themed expansion needs an Igloo right? It was surprisingly hard to find a picture actually. This is a pretty simple idea, although as usual the wording sucks. This is isn't the best thing ever but it's not too bad, I've had it since before Nocturne but forgot to post it earlier, I now worry that Tracker is a bit similar to this and more exciting with the Boons.

Hunter
I'm not overly pleased with Hunter at the moment, perhaps switching the bonuses would make it better. Action for +2 cards, Treasure for +1 action and Victory for Coin token. Discarding an action for +1 action does rub me the wrong way a bit and currently hunter is terrible without a Victory card. We'll have to see, I worry that it'd be hard to remember which goes with which if they're switched like that though.

@Co0kieL0rd: Thanks for the post! I agree with most of what you said - hopefully you like the changes I made this time. Apart from cantrip Cargo Ship, that'd be cwazy! Oh and I'm thinking of making Pioneer blow itself up for a Coin token if it fails to find a Copper - the Copper searching is functionally quite different to just a Peddler and it is a great subtle effect so It'd be a shame for it to die due to physical issues. But at same time I'm of the opinion that Hunting Party was a mistake and isn't worth the hassle so I guess that's still on the cards for sure.

Ah yes I almost forgot Venturer and Ice Cave have been retired for now, Venturer was strange and not very popular so I figured it should go and Ice Cave wasn't very interesting. Cold storage and Rediscover will get more attention soon.
Logged

loneXolf

  • Young Witch
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 132
  • Respect: +44
    • View Profile
    • My steam profile
Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #77 on: December 17, 2017, 07:38:42 pm »
+1

Avalanche- Please make Avalanche not able to target victory cards, this card being able to trash provinces triggers me. Also I don't think this card has to always hit to be scary/destructive, the constant trashing of cards could make decks not improve well without gain effects or +buys. Seems like a cute card though, I really want to see this card in game to see how it plays out.

Seer- The one to one ratio for coin to ice tokens doesn't seem that effective. Maybe just allow a maximum of 1 coin token to be spent for 2 ice tokens. I like it more than the old Barbarian though.

Barbarian- Not really a huge fan of Oasis clones since Oasis has the perfect cost for it's effect. It's hard to tell how good this card is, playing 4 of them in one turn still seems a bit rough. But it's much easier to pull off that the last version of barbarian. Would need to see it in game. The coin token effect on Oasis is probably good enough for the cost of 4 already.

Cargo Ship- Very helpful buff but I don't see this card being bought over most other trashers. The cost of 5 while trashing not that effectively with the slowness of the coin tokens are both it's main weaknesses for me. But this buff looks sorta nice on paper.

Igloo- Text seems a bit off on this card. But hot damn this card seems extremely good, quickly getting yourself just bought cards while netting you a card for the next turn? This could maybe cost 5.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2017, 07:58:39 pm by loneXolf »
Logged

Gazbag

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 735
  • Shuffle iT Username: Gazbag
  • Respect: +1003
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #78 on: December 21, 2017, 05:31:28 pm »
0

Avalanche- Please make Avalanche not able to target victory cards, this card being able to trash provinces triggers me. Also I don't think this card has to always hit to be scary/destructive, the constant trashing of cards could make decks not improve well without gain effects or +buys. Seems like a cute card though, I really want to see this card in game to see how it plays out.

Hahaha better get some Seers if you wanna keep your Provinces. Seriously though, I haven't tested this yet, I rarely have Provinces in my deck but I'll see if a more sane player hates that in testing. I want Avalanche to be nasty though.

Seer- The one to one ratio for coin to ice tokens doesn't seem that effective. Maybe just allow a maximum of 1 coin token to be spent for 2 ice tokens. I like it more than the old Barbarian though.

Yeah this is something to keep an eye on, I haven't yet had chance to actually test Seer/Avalanche so I don't yet know how well it works.

Barbarian- Not really a huge fan of Oasis clones since Oasis has the perfect cost for it's effect. It's hard to tell how good this card is, playing 4 of them in one turn still seems a bit rough. But it's much easier to pull off that the last version of barbarian. Would need to see it in game. The coin token effect on Oasis is probably good enough for the cost of 4 already.

The idea of Barbarian was that you have to choose between using the Coin tokens and using the attack, you don't use up the Coin tokens to do the attack so once you have a stockpile of 3 tokens the attack will always trigger because Barbarian adds the 4th itself. You don't have to play 4 in one turn. Coin token Oasis is probably on the strong side for $4 anyway so I'll have to keep a close eye on this one.

Cargo Ship- Very helpful buff but I don't see this card being bought over most other trashers. The cost of 5 while trashing not that effectively with the slowness of the coin tokens are both it's main weaknesses for me. But this buff looks sorta nice on paper.

I think you're underestimating the Coin tokens a little bit - getting a Coin token at the start of your turn is like playing a Baker, a decent $5 card. Anyway I understand that this isn't a powerhouse and trashers are often on the strong side of things so I'm relatively happy with where this is at the moment.

Igloo- Text seems a bit off on this card. But hot damn this card seems extremely good, quickly getting yourself just bought cards while netting you a card for the next turn? This could maybe cost 5.
I'm not happy with the wording on this, but it gets the intent of the card across so it's okay for now. Eh I'm not sure this is that hot? (I guess Igloos are hot inside?) It doesn't seem amazing compared to Tracker, it only works on one card and only on cards you buy. The effective +1 card next turn is nice though but I don't think it makes up for Royal Seal's non-terminalness either so I'm not seeing this at $5. Maybe it'll end up at $4 though if double Igloo openings are crazy.

Anyway thanks for the comments again, you've helped me quite a bit so far  :)


Edit: Woops I forgot, here's a thing.



I've realised recently that I love Copper gaining and Venturer didn't work out so maybe this new Citadel is more interesting. I think I fluffed the wording on the below the line but oh well. Is it too harsh? Not harsh enough? Too boring? Too exciting?
« Last Edit: December 21, 2017, 06:02:52 pm by Gazbag »
Logged

loneXolf

  • Young Witch
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 132
  • Respect: +44
    • View Profile
    • My steam profile
Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #79 on: December 21, 2017, 08:49:07 pm »
0

Igloo- I still think Igloo is pretty strong but it's limited by + buys, so I don't think multiple copies is a problem. +2 coins is pretty solid and putting the card you buy into your hand for the next turn seems so much stronger than +1 card to me at least until to start to buy victory cards. While it's not as strong as some power duration cards such as wharf, I do find it stronger than Merchant Ship at least the first copy. I don't know, maybe I think it's effect is too good.

Citadel- I am not sure how good a split grand market is at 5. Sorta seems are the weak side to me but it could be pretty strong.
Logged

Gazbag

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 735
  • Shuffle iT Username: Gazbag
  • Respect: +1003
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #80 on: December 27, 2017, 12:39:18 pm »
+3

4 New cards of varying complexity.

Cabin:

This comes from wanting a Governor type thing that isn't broken like Governor. I figured making it terminal was the first thing to do and now it's this Count-like thing that is a mess of words. The idea is that you get 2 of the options and your opponent gets 1 of the 2 options that you chose. Taking a Coin token is obviously the strongest option here and is never bad, but that means it'll always be good for your opponent where as the other options are more situational, so you might be able to leverage them to get more out of them than your opponent, making taking the token as one of the options not always the best thing to do (hopefully). I think this is on the weaker side, as terminal money usually is. Does Sacred Grove make this redundant? No particular reason why this is a cabin other than that I had art for a cabin.

Outcast:

I feel like every set should have at least 1 $2 cantrip these days. This one is a little Menagerie type thing, but seem much weaker than Menagerie so it's $2. Seems similar to Patritian so far in terms of powerlevel. It's an Outcast because it finds things that are on their own, also because the name seemed to fit the art that I had well.

Cauldron:

This has about as much to with the Ice theme as Faithful Hound has to with Nocturne. I actually really like this, even though nobody would have batted an eyelid if it were in the Base 2nd edition. It's an old one from before Empires that started out as very similar to Engineer and then when Empires came out I shelved it for being similar to Engineer until recently I was thinking about an Altar that gained $4's and how it would be too bad at $5 but too good at $4 and then remembered Cauldron and here it is now as an Alter double-Workshop hybrid thing. It's good on similar board to when Workshop is good, but costing $5 means it plays quite differently. Flavour justification: you're putting something in the Cauldron (trashing it) and getting some new stuff out of it.

Mountain Outpost:

We have many durations that are good now and good later (Fishing Village, Merchant Ship etc) and many that are bad now and good later (Tactician, Haunted Woods etc) but none that are good now and bad later. Here's one that is good now and bad later to fill that gap. It's pretty simple, which is good, although maybe +4 cards might not be quite generous enough given that this stacks quite badly and Hunting Grounds gives that with an extra on-trash thing for $6. It reduces your next turn's handsize, like Outpost and I managed to find art that is similar to Outpost's art so I'm happy with that.
Logged

Asper

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4995
  • Respect: +5345
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #81 on: December 27, 2017, 10:01:41 pm »
+2

Gee, I really need to step up my game ;D
These new ones all look pretty great!

I do think that Cabin has too may options, though. Removing just the +2 Card one would probably make it much better. I mean, I like how this option interacts with the chancellor option, but it's the most complex one and also has the most words. I don't find anything negative to say about the other three, they all look cute.

My first reaction to Outcast was to assume it would need a little extra, but by now I think it's certainly strong enough.

Mountain Outpost seems fine, and the idea of "good now, bad later" is better executed than I have seen anywhere before. I appreciate how clean the design is. However, if you are worried about strength already, I'm sure adding a buy would work wonders.

I'm not exactly sure what to say about Cauldron, because I feel you'd have to play with it to see. At worst, it's a Trader, at best it gains 5$s thanks to cost reduction. If you wanted to avoid that, you could say "costing less than this", but I guess it's more fun this way. One last thing: The name "Cauldron" kinda sounds like something that should cost a Potion.
Logged

Chappy7

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 542
  • Shuffle iT Username: Chappy7
  • Respect: +660
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #82 on: December 27, 2017, 10:56:42 pm »
+2

I agree with Asper that one of the Cabin choices should probably disappear. 

I also think that mountain outpost could definitely use a buff. I like that you can't stack it like crazy without ruining your next turn, but being a duration you won't get it in your hand as often.  I'd much rather buy hunting grounds at $6 than this at $5.  Then again, it is good to have some stronger and some weaker cards as long as the deviation isn't too much.

I think Cauldron is super cool and it looks like fun.  I think Outcast looks really good for a $2 actually
Logged

Gazbag

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 735
  • Shuffle iT Username: Gazbag
  • Respect: +1003
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #83 on: December 28, 2017, 08:03:48 am »
+1

Gee, I really need to step up my game ;D
These new ones all look pretty great!

Thanks a lot! That's high praise indeed coming from you!

I do think that Cabin has too may options, though. Removing just the +2 Card one would probably make it much better. I mean, I like how this option interacts with the chancellor option, but it's the most complex one and also has the most words. I don't find anything negative to say about the other three, they all look cute.

This is probably the fix, the chancellor option only really makes the cards one +2 Cards Discard too cards so it's not like it's a great loss that that interaction goes. The text on the card does look much nicer without that option. I also doubt it makes it much weaker, Secret Chamber reaction was never really that useful.

My first reaction to Outcast was to assume it would need a little extra, but by now I think it's certainly strong enough.

Yep seems pretty Patritiany to me so far, Maybe a bit weaker on average.

Mountain Outpost seems fine, and the idea of "good now, bad later" is better executed than I have seen anywhere before. I appreciate how clean the design is. However, if you are worried about strength already, I'm sure adding a buy would work wonders.

I did think about that but then I remembered Wharf and Margrave and thought, maybe terminal draw with +buy is too good? Even Tragic Hero is much better than most people seem to be giving it credit for. I also want this to be a functioning set, so I have to be careful of how many +buy cards there are.

I'm not exactly sure what to say about Cauldron, because I feel you'd have to play with it to see. At worst, it's a Trader, at best it gains 5$s thanks to cost reduction. If you wanted to avoid that, you could say "costing less than this", but I guess it's more fun this way. One last thing: The name "Cauldron" kinda sounds like something that should cost a Potion.

Yes, Cauldron is quite board dependant for sure. Gaining 2 Silvers? Usually not the best. Gaining 2 Ironmongers? Wow! It can get crazy with cost reduction, Highway in particular, but I think that's cost reduction being broken rather than Cauldron so I don't mind it myself. Yeah Cauldron probably could fit right into Alchemy, but Loan has nothing to do with debt so there!

I agree with Asper that one of the Cabin choices should probably disappear. 

I think I agree too.

I also think that mountain outpost could definitely use a buff. I like that you can't stack it like crazy without ruining your next turn, but being a duration you won't get it in your hand as often.  I'd much rather buy hunting grounds at $6 than this at $5.  Then again, it is good to have some stronger and some weaker cards as long as the deviation isn't too much.

It's not the best card ever in it's current form, If you play 1 every turn then it's "Discard a card. +4 Cards"  which is probably an okay $5 so yeah this could do with a small buff. +1 buy is the easiest and probably the simplest, but I'll try to thin of something more unique that doesn't ruin the simplicity of the card.

I think Cauldron is super cool and it looks like fun.  I think Outcast looks really good for a $2 actually

I'm glad you like it  :) By really good do you mean it's too strong? Or good as in $2 is a good cost?
Logged

Asper

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4995
  • Respect: +5345
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #84 on: December 28, 2017, 09:41:52 am »
0

I can't read minds, but I would assume Chappy7 means that Outcast is strong. After all, it's relatively likely to be a Lab if you have it in hand early in your turn, which is huge for a card at the "might as well buy this over nothing" cost point. It will whiff more often if you draw it later, and also has a high chance to do so early in the game, but like Menagerie the payoff is relatively huge. The thing with Menagerie is, once it fails for the first time, it becomes very likely that subsequent attempts will also fail, which isn't true for Outcast. For both, the card becomes less and less likely to draw those extra cards the more often you play it successfully, but again, this is steeper with Menagerie because of its higher payoff.
Logged

Chappy7

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 542
  • Shuffle iT Username: Chappy7
  • Respect: +660
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #85 on: December 28, 2017, 10:49:16 am »
0


I'm glad you like it  :) By really good do you mean it's too strong? Or good as in $2 is a good cost?

Oh sorry, I guess I wasn't clear.  I mean that it looks quite strong.   Kinda like a chariot race effect, but it only costs $2 to buy. I definitely could be way off, but it seems like it would be pretty easy to make it a lab.  I'll try to use it next time I play irl and see what I think.
Logged

Gazbag

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 735
  • Shuffle iT Username: Gazbag
  • Respect: +1003
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #86 on: December 29, 2017, 11:13:13 am »
0


I'm glad you like it  :) By really good do you mean it's too strong? Or good as in $2 is a good cost?

Oh sorry, I guess I wasn't clear.  I mean that it looks quite strong.   Kinda like a chariot race effect, but it only costs $2 to buy. I definitely could be way off, but it seems like it would be pretty easy to make it a lab.  I'll try to use it next time I play irl and see what I think.

No worries! The difference between $2 and $3 isn't all that much really and this is very unreliable as draw because you have to line up the 2nd card of your deck and the contents of your hand. Chariot Race is weird one because it would be weaker if it cost $2. I'll admit I haven't really tried to go too far out of my way in any games to trigger Outcasts so maybe it's actually really good, I'll have to try that out. It would be awesome if you tried it yourself!

What do people think about an on-gain Chancellor effect for Mountain Outpost? I opened Cursed Village the other day on a 5/2 and got War and it just Chancellored me because I didn't have any 3/4s yet, which gave me the idea. It also has the interaction with Ice tokens that it makes you shuffle more so the tokens matter more. Or do you think that could lead to too much shuffling? Can't be any worse than Inn for that though, right?
Logged

Asper

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4995
  • Respect: +5345
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #87 on: December 29, 2017, 01:49:53 pm »
0

I don't think you should actively try to "line up" cards to trigger Outcast. But if you trash down and go for many different cards, it should pay nicely to have these over quite a few other 2$s.
Logged

Gazbag

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 735
  • Shuffle iT Username: Gazbag
  • Respect: +1003
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #88 on: December 30, 2017, 06:11:40 pm »
0

I don't think you should actively try to "line up" cards to trigger Outcast. But if you trash down and go for many different cards, it should pay nicely to have these over quite a few other 2$s.

Oh yeah, this is how I've been playing it. Can't hurt to test these things though!
Logged

Gazbag

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 735
  • Shuffle iT Username: Gazbag
  • Respect: +1003
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #89 on: January 04, 2018, 12:31:32 pm »
+4

Got a few new ones for you.

Tundra:


Partially inspired by Enchantress and also trying to sneak a way to get Copper gaining into the set, because I love Copper gaining for some reason. Instead of blanking the first played action it blanks the first gained card, it gives the Copper option as to not ruin single gain games, it's kind of ended up as a mini Swamp Hag. I don't think Copper pile size variation with more players is a concern because it's limited to 1 per turn, although thinking about it would multiples make people gain multiple Coppers if they don't want to exchange? Well the on play bonus is pretty weak so hopefully that doesn't matter. Also with multiple buys this could let your opponents pick up cheap Silvers and then there's interactions with on-gain effects too, hopefully that makes for fun experiences. Could this get away with costing $3? I'm a bit short on $3s at the moment.

Taiga:


TAIGA UPPERCUT!!! Everybody likes Peddlers! An Ice token from play was an obvious thing to try, but this stemmed from the idea of a reverse traveller at first. The way I was going to do that was to have a vanilla cantrip that you can optionally set aside for an additional bonus (+$2 +1buy or +1 card +1 action, stuff like that) because making the exchange mandatory was bad if you forgot to do it - Vampire/Bat gets around the mandatory exchange because you do it when you play the card but actions can't do that obviously. Setting the card aside wasn't great, especially with Ice tokens doing that in the same set and you just always exchanged the first 2 or so times and then left it and never got the weaker ones. It had too many issues and didn't seem worth all the extra cards. So now you do it once and then it's a Silver, but if the game lasts long enough you get it back! That might be a bit too much to be honest but we'll have to see, the type of decks that can abuse a Grand Market don't appreciate the Silvers so much and I don't mind cards being strong in sloggier games. Flavour justification is that you cut down the forest for some cash and then it grows back. "Coppice" would be a good name too.

Reindeer:


+2 Cards Take a Coin token is probably too good for $3, but I'm pretty sure the other part makes this much weaker if you want multiples. I'm also pretty sure this won't stay in the set for long but maybe something can be salvaged from it...

Finally here's an updated Mountain Outpost:


It seems like a nice extra bonus, a bit different from boring old +1 Buy.
Logged

Asper

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4995
  • Respect: +5345
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #90 on: January 04, 2018, 03:31:34 pm »
0

I don't really see what's so appealing about Copper gaining. In the end, Tundra is pretty much a weaker Swamp Hag. Also, it needs to be reworded to avoid an interaction with junking attacks.

+1 for Taiga uppercut  ;D
Logged

Gazbag

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 735
  • Shuffle iT Username: Gazbag
  • Respect: +1003
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #91 on: January 04, 2018, 06:40:07 pm »
+1

Well the main idea of Tundra was the Silver exchange and the Copper part was just so it doesn't lock people out of the game, but yeah it does make it too close to Hag probably. I too don't know what's so appealing about Copper gains, I just enjoy it and Cache and Mountebank give it a bad reputation.


Here's a different version, it doesn't work if there's no mid-turn gaining but it gives +1 buy now so hopefully that means it has enough utility to still be bought sometimes without that. It also gets around the junking attack interaction - thanks for pointing that out. I feel like this can cost $3 too? Duration-Woodcutter seems very weak so I think it's fine?

Edit because there's no point making another post:

I like Asper's suggestion of removing the +2 cards, topdeck 2 option of Cabin so here's that updated:



A couple of games with Frost Spirit proved that it is in fact, crazy. The combination of non-mandatory cantrip thinning and then setting aside Provinces later is way too much. There are a few things that can be done to reign it in, preventing it from setting aside non-Estate victory cards is one thing to try - but man that's an ugly phrase to have on the card, I'd rather not resort to that. It might be fine at $5, but I'd rather it stay cheaper. Making it mandatory won't be enough on it's own. Cookielord suggested making it +2 cards at $3 which I liked the sound of because I <3 Masquerade. So here's that version:



Finally here's something I thought of about 15 minutes ago.

Spyglass: (Now with proper formatting, thanks to Asper for pointing that out)


So I love getting an early Sun's gift with Bard, it's like a non-terrible Navigator that also does more useful stuff later, absolutely wonderful. I also would like a treasure in the set. So yeah early on this gives you some ever underrated cycling and later in the game when your deck is in order and full of different components the inspection is less useful this gets cashed in for a Gold which I think is neat, also seems fairly thematic. I guess it could be reworded a bit to make the Gold gain optional but I doubt you'll ever be too upset when that happens. I'm not sure whether that pen in the art is appropriate for dominion but I'm not too bothered really, I also actually remembered to credit the artist so there! Also with this and Taiga there's something that turns into a Gold, something that turns into a Silver... I'm smelling a mini-theme that could sneak a little Copper gaining in here...
« Last Edit: January 06, 2018, 03:55:55 pm by Gazbag »
Logged

Asper

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4995
  • Respect: +5345
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #92 on: January 05, 2018, 09:03:34 pm »
+1

About Frost Spirit, maybe the cantrip version would be fine if it was just 3 tokens instead of 4? Just in case you prefer a cantrip variant. That seems relatively easy to scale. I take back my suggestion of having it cost 5$ or being mandatory, and I'm glad you didn't go for those.

Spyglass's Coin symbol should be big, like in other Treasures, and should be repeated at the upper borders.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2018, 09:08:15 pm by Asper »
Logged

Gazbag

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 735
  • Shuffle iT Username: Gazbag
  • Respect: +1003
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #93 on: January 05, 2018, 10:05:56 pm »
+1

About Frost Spirit, maybe the cantrip version would be fine if it was just 3 tokens instead of 4? Just in case you prefer a cantrip variant. That seems relatively easy to scale. I take back my suggestion of having it cost 5$ or being mandatory, and I'm glad you didn't go for those.

Spyglass's Coin symbol should be big, like in other Treasures, and should be repeated at the upper borders.

Yeah that seems like another decent option. I like this +2 cards version because it costs $3, which this set is lacking in.

Yep I messed up the Spyglass a bit, it's a miracle it says treasure on the bottom instead of action really.
Logged

loneXolf

  • Young Witch
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 132
  • Respect: +44
    • View Profile
    • My steam profile
Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #94 on: January 06, 2018, 07:46:25 pm »
0

Tundra - This attack seems to kingdom biased. Why have this card to only counter gainers: black market, workshop, gold gainers, while helping some: rats, death cart, and letting remodel trash coppers into silver. And in kingdoms without action gainers it's just a delayed wood cutter. Maybe I am too hard on this card, I don't know.

Taiga - Seems okayish maybe even a bit strong. I see most of this card's power of this card coming from the extra +1 coin, The buy just seems to be there to make it a grand market clone (I prefer more consistent sources of + buys) but the +buy doesn't seem bad. The Silver gain is cute but it seems to lower weight of the choice for setting aside the taiga since it "replaces the limboed Taiga" while increases the max coin your deck can produce when you get your taiga back. But I am not sure how bad 6 ice tokens are since I never played with them. Hard card to judge.

Reindeer - This card seems to have a huge luck factor if you plan to use +1 action and gain a reindeer effect. Just looking at the top card to trigger it's effect doesn't seem that controllable at all. However like you said +2 cards and a coin token does seem very strong for 3. Here is a reworked effect of this I just thought of randomly...
Name - Reindeer
Cost - ?
Type - Action
Effect- +1 Card Reveal your hand if you reveal two or more action cards +2 Actions. Otherwise, +1 Card and Gain a Reindeer.
Logged

Gazbag

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 735
  • Shuffle iT Username: Gazbag
  • Respect: +1003
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #95 on: January 07, 2018, 11:20:43 am »
0

Tundra - This attack seems to kingdom biased. Why have this card to only counter gainers: black market, workshop, gold gainers, while helping some: rats, death cart, and letting remodel trash coppers into silver. And in kingdoms without action gainers it's just a delayed wood cutter. Maybe I am too hard on this card, I don't know.

Yeah it is Kingdom dependant but honestly I think that's not a bad thing, so many attacks in Dominion (mainly ones from earlier expansions) are super powerful, so I think there is plenty of room for more situational attack cards. The main issue I have with it is that it just might not be fun, gaining cards is fun and not always available/viable so hosing that might just not be great for funness.

Taiga - Seems okayish maybe even a bit strong. I see most of this card's power of this card coming from the extra +1 coin, The buy just seems to be there to make it a grand market clone (I prefer more consistent sources of + buys) but the +buy doesn't seem bad. The Silver gain is cute but it seems to lower weight of the choice for setting aside the taiga since it "replaces the limboed Taiga" while increases the max coin your deck can produce when you get your taiga back. But I am not sure how bad 6 ice tokens are since I never played with them. Hard card to judge.

The buy is mainly there because I don't really have any +buy cards I'm overly happy with yet, so time to start sticking +buy on things at every opportunity! Also it could lead to situations where you get a cheeky pileout from a surprise +buy, which is always fun/makes you feel smart. I also suspect that winning in this way will become known as the TAIGA UPPERCUT!!! 6 Ice tokens is a long time, especially if you reach the point of drawing deck - that's like 6 whole shuffles! It's less of a concern on slower sloggier decks, but $5 Peddlers are generally terrible in those decks so that's nice. The Silver adds a stop card to engine so you can't abuse these too much and it's decent in other decks too. My guess on the powerlevel is that it's on the stronger side of a weakish subset of cards, I'll go with better than Baker and Market but worse than Bazaar.

Reindeer - This card seems to have a huge luck factor if you plan to use +1 action and gain a reindeer effect. Just looking at the top card to trigger it's effect doesn't seem that controllable at all. However like you said +2 cards and a coin token does seem very strong for 3. Here is a reworked effect of this I just thought of randomly...
Name - Reindeer
Cost - ?
Type - Action
Effect- +1 Card Reveal your hand if you reveal two or more action cards +2 Actions. Otherwise, +1 Card and Gain a Reindeer.

I probably shouldn't have posted Reindeer, it was just a jokey thing but hey maybe something comes of it. This Reindeer probably plays like a broken Vassel thing or something.

Aaand instead of finishing off my Qvist list part which I'll be posting tomorrow - the bottom half of the $2's, stay tuned. I've been making a couple more rough cards that I should probably think about more before posting.

Refuge:

I like journey token cards and Idol is kinda like them, so why not try something else using new Idol technology? It's a Hamlet for actions and then a Bazaar! First draft this only gave the extra action on the first play, so the second play was just a Peddler but that sounded very weak to me so now you always get the village. On odd plays the effect is weak for $3 but the net effect on the second is like playing 2 Villages and an Oasis which is a bit above curve, so this is balanced? A bit bland maybe?

Hunter version 2


Ideally the Game card would have been the Quarry card, as in a hunter's quarry. Unfortunately Quarry is also a stone digging hole so that's already a card... best to avoid confusion there, differentiating Actions and Action cards can already be confusing. The main idea is that it's a Village for a certain card, it's the reverse of Young Witch because Young Witch is weaker with a strong Bane but Hunter is stronger with a strong Game (imagine a game where this is the Bane!). I think this wants to be cheaper than $5 so it doesn't compete with the Game but I'm honestly not enthused with the on-play currently, it's actually just really similar to Plaza. Maybe the discard could be mandatory and then you get something for discarding a victory, like +1 buy or something?

I don't think this expansion needs Refuge and Hunter btw, 1 discardy villagy $3 is plenty so it's a case of seeing which people prefer/what plays nicely. Or maybe they meld into 1 card or I find something better, who knows.

Logged

Asper

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4995
  • Respect: +5345
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #96 on: January 07, 2018, 03:55:21 pm »
0

Isn't the new Hunter just a more complicated, worse Plaza?
Logged

Gazbag

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 735
  • Shuffle iT Username: Gazbag
  • Respect: +1003
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #97 on: January 07, 2018, 05:10:55 pm »
0

Isn't the new Hunter just a more complicated, worse Plaza?

Yes as I already pointed out:

it's actually just really similar to Plaza.

Do you like the core idea of a village that can only play another card? The other stuff is kinda placeholder at the moment.
Logged

loneXolf

  • Young Witch
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 132
  • Respect: +44
    • View Profile
    • My steam profile
Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #98 on: January 07, 2018, 06:27:49 pm »
0

Refuge- The even odd effect doesn't seem to have much payoff if you don't discard dead cards. Playing one or three refuges during your turn seems much worse than villages to me. Looks a tad weak to me, I could very well be wrong though.

Hunter- Like asper said it looks like a worse plaza. Here is another reworked effect I just thought of randomly...
"Name - Hunter
Cost - 4
Type - Action
Effect- +1 Card +1 Action You may play a Game card from your hand twice. If you do, Trash it. This turn, Game cards cost 4. / Setup: Add an extra Action Kingdom card pile costing 5 coins to the Supply. Cards from that pile are Game cards."
Probably way too strong for 4.
Logged

Asper

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4995
  • Respect: +5345
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #99 on: January 07, 2018, 08:35:14 pm »
0

Isn't the new Hunter just a more complicated, worse Plaza?

Yes as I already pointed out:

it's actually just really similar to Plaza.

Do you like the core idea of a village that can only play another card? The other stuff is kinda placeholder at the moment.

Sorry for missing out on that. I wouldn't have assumed you'd go for it if you had been aware of the similarity, as it is a lot worse at a price point which is only marginally cheaper (and Donald X often stated he'd like several of the 4$ Villages to cost 3$ if it wasn't about "strictly better stuff") as well as being too complicated.

I like the "play a special card" idea, but I think the card itself needs to be more interesting. As interesting as I find the ice token mechanic, as much do I think that coin tokens were sufficiently covered by Guids. Cantrip tokens, terminal tokens, disappearing tokens, on-buy tokens, conditional tokens... In the end, coin tokens are already a variant of "+coins", so there isn't unlimited space to explore here. In general, I find the "pure" Ice token cards better, because they are more unique in what they do. Think about how Scrying Pool looks like a more complicated Spy for having its attack.

The obviously balanced thing would be something like a 5& or 6$ card that gives +3 Cards and allows you to play the Game card. Obvious because, well, Cultist already does a thing like that. And then there's Imp and Conclave, both of which have much less rigid restrictions. I used to ponder a "Young Sorcerer" idea that could somehow use a Bane card in your deck back when Cornucopia came around, and I think (but can't swear) that I thought about playing that card. And well, I never managed to think of a card that was worthwile, so I'm afraid Cultist is the best I can think of. At least I can say that the idea to only let cards costing 5$ be Game makes sense to me.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 9  All
 

Page created in 0.129 seconds with 21 queries.