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Author Topic: Dominion: Ice Age  (Read 9095 times)

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Gazbag

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Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #175 on: March 23, 2018, 11:56:44 pm »
+1

Every Champion game has Champion nonsense. It's called Warrior. Every Champion game is also broken and luck-driven, and I feel not the slightest remorse for Champion games with Road being broken and luck-driven. I guess it should be fixed, but well, so should Warrior. That card is easily second in my worst list. And in the end of the day, hey, if you have Road and Champion, just draw your deck, and then if you have discard for benefit, calculate the max you get, win the game. People usually don't starve revealing Moat for eternity, either.

Yeah Champ is pretty dumb, I don't play with it anymore irl. I actually like the idea behind Road, although I have a few balance issues with it as we all know. I mentioned Road here simply because I wouldn't have come up with Wanderer without thinking so much about Road following that heated debate. Perhaps putting in that Champion comment made it seem like I was taking a dig at Road, that wasn't my intent! I know how easy it is to get defensive about these things, like with the Glacier thing.

Anyway, I understand that I brought up Road here, but I'd appreciate it if you could at least give some insight on my cards as well. This topic is supposed to be about my Ice Age cards, not the Page line or Road.

As to not be a hypocrite, Wanderer needs clearer wording Commodore Chuckles is right that just saying you can play it is confusing and isn't clear enough. The question is whether calling for -action or just playing it from the Tavern is best. I like playing from the Tavern myself, it doesn't really create any new rules stuff in the way that calling for -1 Action would, you don't have to specify when it can be called so there's words saved and it's friendlier with Adventures tokens and whatnot.
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Asper

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Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #176 on: March 24, 2018, 08:31:27 am »
0

Hum, I don't think I can say anything negative about Wanderer. It DOES avoid the endless turn issue Road can have, and if seen on it's own, it's a decent, not overly-complex card. The one thing I prefer with Road is that it has a straightforward wording that leaves no questions open. Maybe you could have this be the best of both worlds? Just a Reserve that allows you to put it into your hand? That way you can play it once every turn if you have the spare Action, but considering decks that draw themselves it doesn't seem outlandish. Theoretically it could do the same as a Duration, which would mean the chain breaks once you fail to play it but also saves a dividing line.

Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #177 on: March 24, 2018, 08:35:42 pm »
0

It's definitely a neat idea, but it's hard to think of wording that's unambiguous while also not bogging down the concept's elegance. The big problem is keeping track of whether it's already been on your Mat. Maybe when you return it to your hand you turn it upside down? Pretty screwy idea, but I can't think of anything else that's not horrifically convoluted.
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Asper

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Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #178 on: March 24, 2018, 09:50:04 pm »
0

It's definitely a neat idea, but it's hard to think of wording that's unambiguous while also not bogging down the concept's elegance. The big problem is keeping track of whether it's already been on your Mat. Maybe when you return it to your hand you turn it upside down? Pretty screwy idea, but I can't think of anything else that's not horrifically convoluted.

Maybe I didn't make this clear enough, but my suggestion would not differentiate at all (so it differs from Gazbag's original). It would just return itself to your hand, you play it, it goes on the mat, you return it, and so on. Probably that concept works better as a Duration though, as now the chain can break:

Wanderer, Action - Duration, 5$
+2 Cards
At the start of your next turn, put this into your hand.

Edit: I have no idea what this should cost. If you only have one of them, it's like starting every turn with a Smithy in hand. Big Money paradise. So maybe this suggestion is actually awful? No clue.

Holunder9

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Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #179 on: March 31, 2018, 02:54:44 am »
0

Just a random freezing attack idea I had for a Duration card:

While this is in play, when another player gains a non-Victory card, they freeze it 3 times.

Probably not that strong so it might also be OK to you use 4 or 5.
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Gazbag

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Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #180 on: April 02, 2018, 02:28:18 pm »
0

Just a random freezing attack idea I had for a Duration card:

While this is in play, when another player gains a non-Victory card, they freeze it 3 times.

Probably not that strong so it might also be OK to you use 4 or 5.

Yeah this is a nice idea, it's basically what the next version of Tundra is like at the moment, but it's limited to the first card gained just so it doesn't have the potential to be too miserable. I haven't tested it much though and Yeti is pretty nice as a freezing attack so it could be a little redundant.

I had chance to do a nice bit of playtesting this weekend, although I forgot to record any exact kingdoms. One game had Wanderer and Spelunkers, which I discovered have quite nice synergy with each other as having some Wanderers in reserve means you can discard down to 2 villages with Spelunkers and still kick off your engine. I remember this game had Forager, Blessed Village, Shanty Town and Wine Merchant too. Wanderer seemed much more viable as draw than Oracle, but I'm happy with it costing $3, it's still no Gear I'm pretty sure! Spelunkers was a nice way to add money to the deck, I liked how it played.

There was another game with Cabin and Frost Spirit, Frost Spirit was strong yet again, but I think it's pretty fun and interesting so I like it. Still have to decide whether to introduce measures to stop you setting aside Provinces though... Cabin was basically garbage though, like, the effect you get is strong for the price compared to cards that do similar things, but getting money, Silver gaining and Chancelloring aren't really necessary things for most decks so it seemed like you were better off just using treasures and reaping the benefits from opponent's Cabins than actually using Cabin. I still like the basic concept of the card, so here's a buffed version (with bonus coffers update!):

So now it gives you a buy too and it gains gold instead of Silver. +1 buy is nice, because the set really needs more +buy and it means you're getting something useful that you need to actually buy a Cabin to have access to. Buffing the Silver gain also buffs the drawback because it's better for you're opponent too, but if you bought a Cabin you should have a good plan for the Gold and maybe your opponent doesn't. I guess it's kind of similar to Sacred Grove now, but I think it's different enough.

Rediscover was still completely broken, so it'll need another big overhaul. I would like a Remodel type thing in the set though so I'll have to work on it some more. To be honest just making it not a cantrip would probably make it reasonable.

Outcast has been sitting there being kind of fine, but off theme and a little boring and similar to Sleigh. So I'm going to try this new thing as a replacement. Draw-to-X is a fun thing that people always seem to enjoy and Diplomat and Leprechaun are two of the most fun cards from recent sets so it kind of tries to do a similar thing to them.

So if you have exactly 3 cards in hand (after playing it), it's Baker for $2 woah! And if you have fewer cards then it becomes Lab or better, but you'll need to find a way to reduce your handisze first, playing one from a 5 card hand does nothing, but does set up your next Outcasts. I could see this at $3, but spamming too many could certainly backfire so it's $2 for now.

Oh here's better worded things:



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ClouduHieh

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Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #181 on: April 09, 2018, 02:19:55 am »
0

Great minds think alike Iím also creating my own expansion. A relative will be taking care of how all the info and pictures get on the card. But all the information is my ideas. Itís called the
Snow line expansion. A snow line is an area where the snow stays all year round. A few of the cards that you have in your ice age expansion do completely different things from the ones I have. And itís just a few. Like yeti and cold storage. And I have firn village and frigid village. But I donít have mountain village. Frigid village is duration card similar to fishing village from seaside. And firn village is basically a village with minus victory points, that an attack called avalanche gives out. And then it also then gives out curses when you run out of firn villages. And firn village is purple too. My expansion has about 7 cards that work with the journey token. Duration cards. Reserve cards. And 2 new blue reaction cards. And one reserve that works like a reaction. But I really do love your cards too. They look so much like the real cards. Iím sure mine wonít look as legit. But thatís okay as long as friends and I enjoy playing it. It doesnít have to be as awesome as yours look.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #182 on: April 09, 2018, 02:35:15 am »
0

Oh and it also has 2 new travelers cards. Churl and vandal. Vandal-outlaw-sell sword-hedge knight- and warden. Churl-drifter-mountaineer-hunter- and fur trader. And since firn village is given out by avalanche. Itís not in the supply. So Iíve made 1 other card that also may give out a card that isnít in the supply. Just like urchin and hermit. Except you get to keep your cards. Except for avalanche maybe. You can use it to attack to give out as many firn villages as you can. However a benefit is if you trash you gain a card that is not in the supply and a gold too. And the card you gain is called snow shoes. So,thatís about 25 different cards that will be in the supply and 11 that arenít in the supply.
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Gazbag

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Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #183 on: May 23, 2018, 08:41:00 pm »
0

Been a while since I've had any time to work on this! I have a few potential new cards ideas for the set:

Reclaim:

I was struggling to have a Remodel variant in the set with the Ice token version of Rediscover not working out and the Remodel-from-play Reserve versions being busted. So why not Remodel from discard? It looks at hand or discard as to not suck if you're drawing deck every turn. Gatherer is already a Reserve looking at the discard, but maybe having 2 doing that is fine, it did strike me as a pretty big thing missing from the official Reserves. I could also just decide which one I like best and cut the other. Or maybe this is a little lackluster for $5 so I merge the 2 and make this topdeck the gained card.

Bastion:

I wouldn't be surprised if this is a massive dud but a Miser for Estates could be cool? It's like a really bad trasher that can be a cheap Duchy later, or more if you invest in more Estates.

Warlord:

This is another take on Barbarian as I wasn't too happy with its current form. I thought a card that "Save" itself could be neat and maybe making it also give +1 Coffers when you save it could make the attack more obtainable. I imagine the numbers on this would need a lot of testing and tweaking and perhaps the whole saving mechanic here is just broken. I think it'd be cool if it works out though?
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Violet CLM

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Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #184 on: May 23, 2018, 11:23:03 pm »
0

Bastion looks very slow. Perhaps if it weren't limited to Estates, or if it were a Night card with that funky "This is gained to your hand" trick. Also it could use the Island mat?
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Holunder9

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Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #185 on: May 25, 2018, 02:47:14 am »
0

I like Reclaim. You are totally right Gazbag that it doesn't look very fancy but I don't think that it has to be, it has the simplicity of an official card.
It is probably weaker than other Remodel variants for early remodeling as it is slower but brilliant later in the game and for endgame Gold/Provinces to Provinces.

Bastion looks very slow. Perhaps if it weren't limited to Estates, or if it were a Night card with that funky "This is gained to your hand" trick. Also it could use the Island mat?
In games without trashers it is not slower than Island which is what you have to compare Bastion with. Island is also very slow, a one-shot that only quasi-trashers one card but makes up for that via VPs.
It would be too good (at $4 or at any price?) if it could set aside other Victory cards. Non-terminal is an option though.
At first it seems bonkers with Shepherd but Shepherd wants the Estates to remain in your deck. It is probably still good, not at least because Bastion itself being a Victory card makes Shepherd more reliable, but I don't think that it will be broken.
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Asper

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Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #186 on: May 25, 2018, 05:14:37 am »
0

I like Bastion. I feel it looks more innocent than it is, though. Very cute.

Chappy7

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Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #187 on: May 25, 2018, 10:59:31 am »
0

I like Reclaim. You are totally right Gazbag that it doesn't look very fancy but I don't think that it has to be, it has the simplicity of an official card.
It is probably weaker than other Remodel variants for early remodeling as it is slower but brilliant later in the game and for endgame Gold/Provinces to Provinces.

Bastion looks very slow. Perhaps if it weren't limited to Estates, or if it were a Night card with that funky "This is gained to your hand" trick. Also it could use the Island mat?
In games without trashers it is not slower than Island which is what you have to compare Bastion with. Island is also very slow, a one-shot that only quasi-trashers one card but makes up for that via VPs.
It would be too good (at $4 or at any price?) if it could set aside other Victory cards. Non-terminal is an option though.
At first it seems bonkers with Shepherd but Shepherd wants the Estates to remain in your deck. It is probably still good, not at least because Bastion itself being a Victory card makes Shepherd more reliable, but I don't think that it will be broken.

I do like the night card idea.  Or maybe rather than that it could also look through the discard pile for Estates.  IDK it's hard for me to tell how good this would be, but I feel like it needs a slight buff.
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Gazbag

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Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #188 on: May 25, 2018, 02:09:52 pm »
+1

I think I'm with Asper here that Bastion is probably better than it first appears, sure it's very bad as a "trasher" only "trashing" Estates and giving no real benefit for it (aside from points), but it represents potentially a lot of points. They become Duchies for $4 once you've matted your starting Estates and you can potentially add more later in the game too and then they can be a lot of points.

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Holunder9

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Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #189 on: May 25, 2018, 03:18:42 pm »
0

Like Island Bastion sucks as trasher but provides VPs. Like Miser, a pretty weak card, Bastion cannot be (much) stronger because such build-up cards can become too strong/explosive.
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Fragasnap

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Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #190 on: May 26, 2018, 08:10:19 am »
0

Bastion is a compelling Duke\Island variant. You can think of it kind of like Duke, since once you have two Bastions in your deck, an Estate can effectively be worth 3VP (assuming your deck can align them). Like Island, it doesn't increase your deck size by getting rid of the pesky Estates. Unlike Duke, it needs to align with its Estate targets, possibly changing the optimal order of acquiring Bastions versus Estates (not to mention piling Estates is a little easier than piling Duchies).
Even if Bastion is slow sometimes, other times Bastions can be worth 7VP under the assumption that the Estates split fairly (in 2\3 player games).

Warlord's Action\Reaction interaction is pretty slick, though I'm not sure I like the Attack itself. Should the Reaction be bounded so you can't 5x Warlords into +5 Coffers every turn forever?
« Last Edit: May 26, 2018, 09:06:12 am by Fragasnap »
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Kudasai

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Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #191 on: June 02, 2018, 01:57:32 am »
+1

Bastion - I had thought of a nearly identical card called Isle. Seeing Bastion got me excited so I thought I'd share Isle with you. I think it's a cool concept and should be explored more!

« Last Edit: June 02, 2018, 02:00:07 am by Kudasai »
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Gazbag

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Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #192 on: June 11, 2018, 01:33:50 pm »
+1

Hey folks, I've been quite busy the past month or so and haven't had much time to put into this, but I should have some more free time in the coming weeks now so I should make some good progress! If anybody is interested in playing some test games on tabletop simulator just give me a PM!

I've been done some housekeeping in the OP, some cards have been retired for various reasons, updated with new ones and such. I have a few card ideas I feel like sharing too, mostly Peddler-like things.

Outcast:

I decided to retire Taiga, as much I loved the taiga uppercut it was just a little boring, I guess I could reuse the name on a different card though anyway. I still like the idea of a 'freeze' from play card but I thought something mandatory and more Encampment/Pixie-ish would be better and finding good $2s is hard so you can't turn down any new ideas for $2s! It's about as simple as it can be at the moment, maybe it could give a Coffers instead of plain +$1 if it's a little lacklustre.

Supply Post:

This is a silly one. I don't think it really works with Trade Route but I can live with that for now. Stupid Trade Route killing other cards that put Coin tokens on piles! It's a cantrip so it's always a reasonable target for its tokens, but aside from midturn gaining your opponents get first chance at the tokens so you have to be clever with where you put them, hopefully it encourages divergent strategies? It probably won't work out but hey it's an idea. If it was fine apart from alongside midturn gaining it could be easily changed to on-buy instead of gain.

Summoner:

A workshop type thing with Ice tokens does seem like a classic idea, so I'll try a different one. I think there was reasoning behind the 6 tokens, going off playing this turn 3 or 4 and shuffles are likely to go. I don't really remember though, I need to do some heavy testing with these Ice token cards.

Pioneer:

Not a new one just a tweak. People kept calling this a Peddler variant even though it wasn't so I'm trying it as an actual Peddler variant. Also there were concerns about this slowing down games with all the revealing and it becomes a cantrip chancellor if you trash all your Coppers resulting in copious amounts of shuffling so hopefully giving this a different option makes that happen less often.
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Holunder9

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Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #193 on: June 11, 2018, 02:09:31 pm »
0

An average game of Dominion takes around 14-18 turns. So you will rarely play Outcast rarely more than twice. That's not different enough from a one-shot for my taste.

Supply Post could also be an Event. You don't really want plain cantrips in your deck unless you want to Throne them into Villages or serve your Vassals and Conspirators.

Summoner is a nice idea but again I think that the delay is too large. Most likely makes the engine start too late. Kind of neat with alt-VP though; it could make Gardens and Silk Road work in quite some Kingdoms.
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Kudasai

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Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #194 on: June 11, 2018, 03:00:51 pm »
0

Supply Post - Adding a non-Victory Action instruction would clear up any interactions with Trade Route.

I'll give some more in depth analysis later. Really cool cards though! Excited to sit down and really take a close look at them. Also, why are you and Holunder9 so opposed to +Coffers!? It's simple and elegant and saves valuable card text space. You too are really missing out! :P
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Gazbag

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Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #195 on: June 11, 2018, 03:50:02 pm »
0

With regards to Coffers - from what I understand the tokens are still Coin tokens and you put them on your Coffers? Butcher talks about removing tokens from your coffers. So saying to move tokens from the piles to your Coffers seemed a bit more concise than removing a token and then getting +1 Coffers. Maybe that's not how it actually works?

The idea of Supply post being a cantrip is basically so you always have an action that you can put the tokens on. Also this set isn't currently using Events, but I might end up including some if I can think of enough good ones, but if I do end up including them this could be a top candidate to get Eventified now that you point it out.

Outcast is basically supposed to be a one-shot, but hey sometimes it's a 2 or 3 shot depending on things. If that's not your jam, that's cool. I actually think that cards like Vagrant or Pearl Diver are a bit closer to one-shots than people think, because their additional benefit on top of the cantrip doesn't usually trigger all that often.
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Holunder9

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Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #196 on: June 12, 2018, 03:04:40 am »
0

Why are you and Holunder9 so opposed to +Coffers!?
For me it is a mixture between being used to something, not wanting cards with old and new wording and above all language issues. I am German but play with the original cards and all the folks I play with are familiar with Coin tokens. Coffers on the other hand is a word that I have never heard before and I am pretty sure that the folks in my gaming group don't know it either.
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Kudasai

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Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #197 on: June 12, 2018, 08:14:44 pm »
0

With regards to Coffers - from what I understand the tokens are still Coin tokens and you put them on your Coffers? Butcher talks about removing tokens from your coffers. So saying to move tokens from the piles to your Coffers seemed a bit more concise than removing a token and then getting +1 Coffers. Maybe that's not how it actually works?

My Coffers inquiry was more an attempt at humor than anything else, but to answer your question, I think they are still completely interchangeable. I think it's just a matter of what makes the most sense on a case by case basis. As for Supply Post, I think it's worded perfectly in terms of token usage.

For me it is a mixture between being used to something, not wanting cards with old and new wording and above all language issues. I am German but play with the original cards and all the folks I play with are familiar with Coin tokens. Coffers on the other hand is a word that I have never heard before and I am pretty sure that the folks in my gaming group don't know it either.

Thanks for posting your cards in English!
« Last Edit: June 12, 2018, 08:15:52 pm by Kudasai »
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Kudasai

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Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #198 on: August 11, 2018, 02:51:08 pm »
0

I've been thinking on Bastion and Dominion's general rules regarding mats. I'm of the opinion that cards on mats are not automatically returned to the player's deck for counting points. Mostly this doesn't matter with the official cards, but with Bastion it would. If the Estates are not specifically told to return to the deck at the end of the game, they won't be counted.

This is a small difference in score, but I'm curious what your intention was? To have the Estates count towards your score or not?
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LastFootnote

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Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« Reply #199 on: August 11, 2018, 03:04:08 pm »
0

Cards on your mats are yours; they count toward your score.
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