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Author Topic: Fiddler  (Read 433 times)

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spiralstaircase

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Fiddler
« on: December 04, 2017, 05:38:07 am »
+12



Quote
Fiddler
Action - $2
+1 Buy
You may pay any number of Buys.  For each Buy you paid, +1 Card, +1 Action

On its own, it's a spammable $2 cantrip - they're nice to have, sometimes - and it lets you gamble away your starting Buy in the hope that it can kick off your engine and hopefully dig for something that would give you back that Buy.  But paired with something like a Market Square, you get a strong source of cards and actions.

Thoughts?
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Neirai the Forgiven

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Re: Fiddler
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2017, 10:09:49 am »
+1

I dig. It's almost pointless if you only spend the +Buy it gives you, it's a decent ending for a string of cards if you just want the +Buy, and then if you gamble with it, it's +2 Cards +2 Actions which is pretty high value.

Overall, you'd have to playtest it a bunch to know if it's OP at $2.
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mameluke

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Re: Fiddler
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2017, 02:23:56 pm »
0

Very cool in the presence of gainers, too.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Fiddler
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2017, 02:44:24 pm »
+1

My hunch is that it needs a little boost, like +$1 or something.

EDIT: Oh, but of course then it has to cost like $5. Hmm…
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Awaclus

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Re: Fiddler
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2017, 02:46:34 pm »
0

My hunch is that it needs a little boost, like +$1 or something.

EDIT: Oh, but of course then it has to cost like $5. Hmm…

But it's almost strictly worse than Market then.
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Fiddler
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2017, 02:56:40 pm »
+1

I dislike the card as is. It seems like a neat concept at first, but I think it's not as cool as it looks. With Spammable +Buy (Market, Market Square, Candlestick Maker) I think it's too good. A cantrip that turns your Markets into Trained Lost Cities looks broken. With limited +Buy (Skulk, Druid) you need another Village to activate it, so it's hit or miss whether it will be interesting. And with another Village, it loses some power because you'll already have extra actions. By itself, it's "Choose one: +1 Buy; or +1 Card and +1 Action." At that point, it's just a worse Pawn.

If I were to fix the card, I would make it
Quote
Fiddler, /

+2 Buys
You may spend any number of buys, for +1 Action each.
You may spend any number of buys, for +1 Card each.
- It's more interesting on its own. Moat, Necro, or Cantrip?
- It's not as powerful with Market (Square) as you get a card or action.
- You can use it with terminal +Buy because it's a village now too.
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pacovf

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Re: Fiddler
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2017, 03:11:40 pm »
+2

I like the gamble concept. I think you would need to limit the number of buys you can spend, maybe to 3 or so, to make sure it doesn't go too crazy with cantrip buys.

Really cool idea for sure.

No idea about the power level though. If I wanted it to be more reliable but less explodey, I would price it at 4$, make it give an extra action (so you can use it as a regular village, which sources of +Buy usually want), and limit the number of buys it can spend to 2 (easier to track that way too, just turn it 90 degrees per buy spent).
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Accatitippi

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Re: Fiddler
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2017, 05:27:22 pm »
+3

One thing worth noting is that you can spend your turn's "base buy" to turn it into a Lost City. If it looks like you're totally going to dud a turn, you can do that to do a Hail Mary, and it might save your turn.
This also means that it works pretty well also with terminal +Buy. (eg: a hand of Fiddler/Margrave is a very happy hand)

The main issue I see would be tracking, and crazyness with spammable +Buy. I would test it eating at most 2 Buys at first.
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spiralstaircase

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Re: Fiddler
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2017, 10:13:54 am »
+2

Thanks!  I'll try it with "up to two Buys" and see how it goes.
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Rush_Clasic

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Re: Fiddler
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2017, 01:20:38 pm »
+2

This is all I could think of when I saw the thread title:

Fiddler on the Roof - $4
Action
+$2
+1 Buy
-----
While this is in play, when you buy a card, you may put it on top of your deck.

Anyway, spending buys is a cool slice of design space to mess around in, and I like the way this card handles it... thematically. I think +1 on both ends is probably overkill and makes the card way too swingy. I think only allowing one half of the card to scale brings it closer to center powerwise. Something like:

Fiddler - $2
Action
+1 Action
+1 Buy
You may pay any number of buys. Draw that many cards.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2017, 01:26:06 pm by Rush_Clasic »
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Asper

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Re: Fiddler
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2017, 04:16:34 am »
0

I kinda feel the card is too wonky. At its worst, this card is a worse Pawn, as ThetaSigma12 said. At its best, it's completely bonkers. Even if it turned the buy only into one of the bonuses (amd gave the other as a baseline) as Classic_Rush suggests, which do you pick? Markets become super-Labs with the Cards and only Bazaars with Actions, whereas Margraves become Super-Duper-Labs with Actions and Hunting Grounds with Cards. As much as I dislike Storyteller, I still feel that card implements the concept of turning one resource into another better, simply because of the exchange rate of coins and cards, and the non-issue of losing all your coins compared to losing all your buys.

Perhaps a Crossroads wording that can only exchange one buy per turn would allow you to make the base version stronger without it becoming crazy overall. Maybe a +1 Buy cantrip that can instead lose a buy the first time to be a Lost City?

Fiddler
+1 Card
+1 Action
Choose one:
+1 Buy; or
If this is the first time you played a Fiddler this turn, lose one buy and +1 Card, +1 Action.

popsofctown

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Re: Fiddler
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2017, 11:18:38 am »
+1

What about
Cellist 3$
+1 Card
+1 Action
Choose one: +1 Buy, or for each Cellist in play -1 Buy and +1 Card, +1 Action


Never mind it seemed better in my head.
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