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Author Topic: Town Planner  (Read 623 times)

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popsofctown

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Town Planner
« on: December 01, 2017, 08:42:54 pm »
+1

Town Planner
2$ Action - Reserve

+2 Actions
Put this on your Tavern mat.
_______________________
At the beginning of your turn, you may call this, for +1 card.
_______________________
In games using this, when you buy a Province, you may reveal a Duchy from your hand.  If you don't, don't gain the Province.
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Town Planner
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2017, 09:15:43 pm »
+1

Town Planner
2$ Action - Reserve

+2 Actions
Put this on your Tavern mat.
--------------------------------
At the beginning of your turn, you may call this, for +1 card.
--------------------------------
In games using this, when you buy a Province, you may reveal a Duchy from your hand.  If you don't, return it to the Supply.

The below the line doesn't seem to fit the rest of the card. And the top seems like it would be worth more than , Necro/Lab for ? Yes please!
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popsofctown

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Re: Town Planner
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2017, 09:54:28 pm »
0

It's not a Lab.  Lab draws you two cards per play.  This draws you one card per play.

It also misses reshuffles more.  See Caravan versus Lab.


Originally the card searched for Victory cards in your discard pile or the top of your deck.  But those designs all felt too hamfisted.  Instead, this version fits in a more subtle way.  When you draw a hand with a Duchy, three Silvers, and a Copper, you say hey, maybe this would be a good turn to call my Town Planner. 

But also, like, the secret history of Fool pretty plainly states it has a part that doesn't fit at all, Fool's Gold has a bottom part that nombos against itself too, so I don't see how that's a problem.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Town Planner
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2017, 10:24:05 pm »
+2

It's not a Lab.  Lab draws you two cards per play.  This draws you one card per play.

It also misses reshuffles more.  See Caravan versus Lab.


Originally the card searched for Victory cards in your discard pile or the top of your deck.  But those designs all felt too hamfisted.  Instead, this version fits in a more subtle way.  When you draw a hand with a Duchy, three Silvers, and a Copper, you say hey, maybe this would be a good turn to call my Town Planner. 

But also, like, the secret history of Fool pretty plainly states it has a part that doesn't fit at all, Fool's Gold has a bottom part that nombos against itself too, so I don't see how that's a problem.

It's a Lab on the turn you call it. If you play a Lab at the beginning of your turn, you have 6 cards and 1 action. If you call Town Planner at the beginning of your turn, you have 6 cards and 1 action.

It is much more like Caravan than Lab though. Caravan is a Lab the turn after you play it, exactly like Town Planner except that you could delay that to more than 1 turn later if you want. And the turn you play it you get +2 actions instead of +1 card +1 action... hard to say which is stronger between the 2, but probably Town Planner most of the time. It should almost definitely cost .

The Duchy/Province part seems tacked on; and sounds like it would lead to long sloggy games.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2017, 10:26:40 pm by GendoIkari »
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popsofctown

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Re: Town Planner
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2017, 12:23:35 am »
0

By that reasoning, Merchant Ship is a Grand Market (or would be if it just added a measly Buy).  If you start a turn with Grand Market with your hand, you are going to play a 5 card hand with 2$, 5 Cards, 1 Action, and 2 Buy.  If you start a turn having played Merchant ship the last turn, you are going to play a 5 card hand with 2$, 5 Cards, 1 Action, and 2 Buy.
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Gubump

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Re: Town Planner
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2017, 01:28:17 am »
+1

By that reasoning, Merchant Ship is a Grand Market (or would be if it just added a measly Buy).  If you start a turn with Grand Market with your hand, you are going to play a 5 card hand with 2$, 5 Cards, 1 Action, and 2 Buy.  If you start a turn having played Merchant ship the last turn, you are going to play a 5 card hand with 2$, 5 Cards, 1 Action, and 2 Buy.

Except that not only does Merchant Ship cost $1 less than Grand Market instead of $3, it always does the Grand Market thing the turn after you play it. Town Planner costs $3 less than the card GendoIkari and ThetaSigma are comparing it to, and does the Lab thing whenever you want it to. I agree with GendoIkari that it should definitely cost $4.
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popsofctown

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Re: Town Planner
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2017, 03:48:50 am »
0

I think I got lost somewhere in there: Sigma seemed to be calling it a Lost City, it's definitely not that.

I thought GendoIkari was following up that characterization but rereading his post not really.

4$ is fine.  I think it can be a 3$. It might be a busted 3, kind of like how Fishing Village is a busted 3, but Villages are fun and if it's possible for you to say it's not strictly better than Village it's nice to put your Village at 2 or 3.

Once you raise the cost to 3 or 4, the bottom part is definitely too much of a slog concern if it wasn't already.  I really like the concept of having a Duchy phase and moving to a Province phase, but it might be as unworkable as non-Heirloom Cursed Gold.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2017, 03:51:25 am by popsofctown »
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Accatitippi

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Re: Town Planner
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2017, 06:02:51 am »
0

I think the below-the-line effect makes it mandatory to have a very powerful card on the top. And still, it's like saying that Provinces cost 8P this game, which I'm afraid would be way too sloggy.
Maybe if you want something similar you could make it positive instead of negative, and optional instead of mandatory, for example by an event saying:
Wooosh - 5c
Discard a Duchy from your hand to gain a Province.

There is my own Ascend who does something similar:
Ascend - 9c
You may discard any number of Duchies from your hand. For every discarded Duchy, gain a Province.

...which has proven to be a bit broken at times.
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Gazbag

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Re: Town Planner
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2017, 08:16:39 am »
+1

Isn't the top similar to Ghost Town? Just instead of alternating between nothing and a start of turn Lost City it alternates between Necropolis and a start of turn Lab? Obviously being a reserve makes it a bit better but unlike Ghost Town it can be drawn dead and isn't gained to hand so it seems similar power level. I don't understand the comparisons to Lab, am I missing something?
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GendoIkari

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Re: Town Planner
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2017, 03:37:10 pm »
0

I think I got lost somewhere in there: Sigma seemed to be calling it a Lost City, it's definitely not that.

I thought GendoIkari was following up that characterization but rereading his post not really.

4$ is fine.  I think it can be a 3$. It might be a busted 3, kind of like how Fishing Village is a busted 3, but Villages are fun and if it's possible for you to say it's not strictly better than Village it's nice to put your Village at 2 or 3.

Once you raise the cost to 3 or 4, the bottom part is definitely too much of a slog concern if it wasn't already.  I really like the concept of having a Duchy phase and moving to a Province phase, but it might be as unworkable as non-Heirloom Cursed Gold.

He wasn't calling it a Lost City... not sure where you got that. He was calling it a Necro-Lab, in that the effect is exactly the same as playing a Necropolis this turn, and then playing a Lab next turn.

And yes, it's is fair to say that playing a Merchant Ship this turn is like playing a Grand Market next turn (minus the buy). Just like how playing a Hireling once is the same as playing a Lab at the start of every turn from now on. But it's horrible for the turn that you do play it (a terminal silver with no other bonus).

Playing something for free (or calling it) at the start of your next turn always has a built-in +1 card +1 action on top of the effect. It's why Prince and Summon are actually powerful. It's not just the consistency of playing a card every tun / play a card sooner.

Either way, Caravan is still an easy comparison here. The card is very similar. The Reserve instead of Duration part is a strictly better effect, so the question is if +2 actions is much weaker than +1 card +1 action. It's probably a little weaker overall, but probably not by much. It's hard to compare because no Kingdom card gives you just either of those effects without giving some other thing also.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Town Planner
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2017, 03:41:54 pm »
0

Isn't the top similar to Ghost Town? Just instead of alternating between nothing and a start of turn Lost City it alternates between Necropolis and a start of turn Lab? Obviously being a reserve makes it a bit better but unlike Ghost Town it can be drawn dead and isn't gained to hand so it seems similar power level. I don't understand the comparisons to Lab, am I missing something?

Ghost Town is more like Ruined Village now, Lost City next turn. Which is very slightly better than Nothing now, Lost City next turn. But even so, Ruined Village now is really, really bad. Necropolis now is much better.

The comparison to Lab works the exact same way that Caravan can be compared to Lab... in that you get the Lab effect on the turn after you play it (or in this case, any future turn).

But I suppose your Ghost Town comparison is maybe even better than the Caravan one. Except that one of the +Actions is moved from next turn to now, which is almost always better. And being a Reserve instead of a Duration makes it better. So, this is a lot like Ghost Town but very close to strictly better.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2017, 03:43:29 pm by GendoIkari »
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Gazbag

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Re: Town Planner
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2017, 04:29:47 pm »
+1

Isn't the top similar to Ghost Town? Just instead of alternating between nothing and a start of turn Lost City it alternates between Necropolis and a start of turn Lab? Obviously being a reserve makes it a bit better but unlike Ghost Town it can be drawn dead and isn't gained to hand so it seems similar power level. I don't understand the comparisons to Lab, am I missing something?

Ghost Town is more like Ruined Village now, Lost City next turn. Which is very slightly better than Nothing now, Lost City next turn. But even so, Ruined Village now is really, really bad. Necropolis now is much better.

Nothing probably wasn't the best word to use, a bit too ambiguous for these parts. It's much more like having a dead victory card in hand during the action and buy phase than a Ruined Village, which is what I meant by nothing. This is pretty much the same as Ruined Village apart from the edge cases when being an action card matters.

The comparison to Lab works the exact same way that Caravan can be compared to Lab... in that you get the Lab effect on the turn after you play it (or in this case, any future turn).

I mean yes, but Caravan is a cantrip which is why the comparison to Lab makes sense, they both give net +1 Card. This has a village function and gives net +0 cards meaning it's purpose in deckbuilding is completely different to Lab so the comparison doesn't make sense to me.

But I suppose your Ghost Town comparison is maybe even better than the Caravan one. Except that one of the +Actions is moved from next turn to now, which is almost always better. And being a Reserve instead of a Duration makes it better. So, this is a lot like Ghost Town but very close to strictly better.

You've disregarded the fact that Ghost Town is gained to hand, which is where a large part of its power comes from and is pretty much the only thing keeping it from just being worse than Village.

Town planner is basically Village but the +1 Card is delayed, which I'd say is a drawback overall because you'd rather have the cards immediately so you're more likely to have terminal actions to go with your Village. I think this is closer to being a $2 than a $4, but $3 seems perfectly fine to me.
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Asper

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Re: Town Planner
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2017, 05:56:31 am »
0

About Fool and Fool's Gold: Fool's Gold's bottom part is optional and can be triggered late game, when your deck has become too unreliable to make use of the top (and it's likely to happen earlier if it's not a 2P game). Fool is... just not a card I would pull out as an example of how to do things.
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