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Author Topic: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (GAME OVER - EVIL PLAYERS WIN)  (Read 126377 times)

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Robz888

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Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
« Reply #725 on: January 03, 2018, 04:35:52 pm »

Galz's case on Teproc confuses the heck out of me. It seems pretty clear to me, bordering on inarguable, that gkrieg/Teproc/O/mcmc all have the powers they claim they had, and all did what they say they did.

Why? I strongly disagree with EFHW that it was "all obvious N1 who's actions would target who". And there are plenty of reasonable (more so then them all being town, I would argue) scenarios for one (or more) of them to be scum.

Well mcmc def has the power he has, because I was neighborized. O def has the power he has because Teproc's action failed. Teproc def has the power he has because why would he bring all this up if not? Gkrieg, actually did gkrieg actually confirm he has his PR, or just that he didn't target Teproc, I can't remember?

Basically, a lot of stuff got brought up, and I think the Occam's razor in this case is that it all happened.

Power is different from alignment. O could be scum, I just don't think he is. Same for gkrieg. Same for Teproc.
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O

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Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
« Reply #726 on: January 03, 2018, 04:36:34 pm »

Don't artificially assign town points places they don't belong to make yourself seem more reasonable.

mafia threads would only be 20 pages if we didnt do that tho
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Robz888

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Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
« Reply #727 on: January 03, 2018, 04:37:56 pm »

So your case doesn't confuse me, confuse was the wrong word, I get that you think someone there is lying about PR, and lying players are scum. I just don't actually think anyone is lying about PR here. They could be scum anyway, but I'm actually not reading them that way.
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Robz888

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Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
« Reply #728 on: January 03, 2018, 04:38:10 pm »

So your case doesn't confuse me, confuse was the wrong word, I get that you think someone there is lying about PR, and lying players are scum. I just don't actually think anyone is lying about PR here. They could be scum anyway, but I'm actually not reading them that way.

This is directed at Galz.
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Galzria

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Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
« Reply #729 on: January 03, 2018, 04:39:53 pm »

Galz's case on Teproc confuses the heck out of me. It seems pretty clear to me, bordering on inarguable, that gkrieg/Teproc/O/mcmc all have the powers they claim they had, and all did what they say they did.

Why? I strongly disagree with EFHW that it was "all obvious N1 who's actions would target who". And there are plenty of reasonable (more so then them all being town, I would argue) scenarios for one (or more) of them to be scum.

Well mcmc def has the power he has, because I was neighborized. O def has the power he has because Teproc's action failed. Teproc def has the power he has because why would he bring all this up if not? Gkrieg, actually did gkrieg actually confirm he has his PR, or just that he didn't target Teproc, I can't remember?

Basically, a lot of stuff got brought up, and I think the Occam's razor in this case is that it all happened.

Power is different from alignment. O could be scum, I just don't think he is. Same for gkrieg. Same for Teproc.

Teproc and O could both be scum. Teproc Goon. O UB. Scum killed Faust, Teproc tried to get Gkrieg to spill on whether he's active so they know if their Oracle was reversed or not. In the outcome that Gkrieg is not active (or refuses to say), O can claim to have blocked Teproc - in reality he blocked EFHW to prevent tracking.

That's a much more reasonable scenario than what's been claimed.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Robz888

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Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
« Reply #730 on: January 03, 2018, 04:44:34 pm »

Galz's case on Teproc confuses the heck out of me. It seems pretty clear to me, bordering on inarguable, that gkrieg/Teproc/O/mcmc all have the powers they claim they had, and all did what they say they did.

Why? I strongly disagree with EFHW that it was "all obvious N1 who's actions would target who". And there are plenty of reasonable (more so then them all being town, I would argue) scenarios for one (or more) of them to be scum.

Well mcmc def has the power he has, because I was neighborized. O def has the power he has because Teproc's action failed. Teproc def has the power he has because why would he bring all this up if not? Gkrieg, actually did gkrieg actually confirm he has his PR, or just that he didn't target Teproc, I can't remember?

Basically, a lot of stuff got brought up, and I think the Occam's razor in this case is that it all happened.

Power is different from alignment. O could be scum, I just don't think he is. Same for gkrieg. Same for Teproc.

Teproc and O could both be scum. Teproc Goon. O UB. Scum killed Faust, Teproc tried to get Gkrieg to spill on whether he's active so they know if their Oracle was reversed or not. In the outcome that Gkrieg is not active (or refuses to say), O can claim to have blocked Teproc - in reality he blocked EFHW to prevent tracking.

That's a much more reasonable scenario than what's been claimed.

This scenario A) puts unnecessary heat on O, purely caused by his scummate’s plan, and B) requires scum!O to have planned the “I misread ascetic” thing
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Robz888

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Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
« Reply #731 on: January 03, 2018, 04:45:15 pm »

It seems like fancy play syndrome to me, for scum partners O and Teproc to do this.
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Robz888

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Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
« Reply #732 on: January 03, 2018, 04:46:55 pm »

In fact scum!Teproc having just taken no action to save Faust, because he didn’t want to or is just a Goon, and then making a fake claim to try and implicate town gkroeg or O, seems wildly more plausible.
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Galzria

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Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
« Reply #733 on: January 03, 2018, 04:49:04 pm »

Galz's case on Teproc confuses the heck out of me. It seems pretty clear to me, bordering on inarguable, that gkrieg/Teproc/O/mcmc all have the powers they claim they had, and all did what they say they did.

Why? I strongly disagree with EFHW that it was "all obvious N1 who's actions would target who". And there are plenty of reasonable (more so then them all being town, I would argue) scenarios for one (or more) of them to be scum.

Well mcmc def has the power he has, because I was neighborized. O def has the power he has because Teproc's action failed. Teproc def has the power he has because why would he bring all this up if not? Gkrieg, actually did gkrieg actually confirm he has his PR, or just that he didn't target Teproc, I can't remember?

Basically, a lot of stuff got brought up, and I think the Occam's razor in this case is that it all happened.

Power is different from alignment. O could be scum, I just don't think he is. Same for gkrieg. Same for Teproc.

Teproc and O could both be scum. Teproc Goon. O UB. Scum killed Faust, Teproc tried to get Gkrieg to spill on whether he's active so they know if their Oracle was reversed or not. In the outcome that Gkrieg is not active (or refuses to say), O can claim to have blocked Teproc - in reality he blocked EFHW to prevent tracking.

That's a much more reasonable scenario than what's been claimed.

This scenario A) puts unnecessary heat on O, purely caused by his scummate’s plan, and B) requires scum!O to have planned the “I misread ascetic” thing

A) I don't know why you would assume this as you, yourself believe the whole thing to be completely reasonable.

B) And that's not hard to do, now is it?
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Galzria

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Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
« Reply #734 on: January 03, 2018, 04:50:37 pm »

It seems like fancy play syndrome to me, for scum partners O and Teproc to do this.

I disagree.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Teproc

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Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
« Reply #735 on: January 03, 2018, 04:52:41 pm »

Galz's case on Teproc confuses the heck out of me. It seems pretty clear to me, bordering on inarguable, that gkrieg/Teproc/O/mcmc all have the powers they claim they had, and all did what they say they did.

Why? I strongly disagree with EFHW that it was "all obvious N1 who's actions would target who". And there are plenty of reasonable (more so then them all being town, I would argue) scenarios for one (or more) of them to be scum.

Well mcmc def has the power he has, because I was neighborized. O def has the power he has because Teproc's action failed. Teproc def has the power he has because why would he bring all this up if not? Gkrieg, actually did gkrieg actually confirm he has his PR, or just that he didn't target Teproc, I can't remember?

Basically, a lot of stuff got brought up, and I think the Occam's razor in this case is that it all happened.

Power is different from alignment. O could be scum, I just don't think he is. Same for gkrieg. Same for Teproc.

Teproc and O could both be scum. Teproc Goon. O UB. Scum killed Faust, Teproc tried to get Gkrieg to spill on whether he's active so they know if their Oracle was reversed or not. In the outcome that Gkrieg is not active (or refuses to say), O can claim to have blocked Teproc - in reality he blocked EFHW to prevent tracking.

That's a much more reasonable scenario than what's been claimed.

That's insane.
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Robz888

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Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
« Reply #736 on: January 03, 2018, 04:53:28 pm »

I believe O could have done it as town for reasons of misunderstanding and stupidity. Next most likely is O doing it for sincere evil scum blockin Teproc reasons. Next most likely is scum teproc plotting this to ensnare gkrieg or O or someone, and landing a hit in town O. Least likely of all is this being a scum Teproc and scum O conspiracy to... put heat on them both.
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Teproc

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Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
« Reply #737 on: January 03, 2018, 04:54:48 pm »

Why am I claiming in this scenario exactly ? You're looking at it retroactively instead of startgin from the beginning: the explanation is the simplest. I agree with how RObz summarized it above: it is pretty clear that the PRS being claimed are truthful... alignment is another thing, but I happen to think O and mcmc are town.
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Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
« Reply #738 on: January 03, 2018, 04:55:22 pm »

The above is adressed to Galz, not Robz (who is making the same point I am more or less).
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Robz888

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Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
« Reply #739 on: January 03, 2018, 04:55:28 pm »

I mean, Galz’s theory gains credibility if you think someone in there has to be lying about a PR for setup reasons. But there isn’t really reason to think that.
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Teproc

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Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
« Reply #740 on: January 03, 2018, 04:57:03 pm »

O really can't be lying about his PR, because why would scum!O claim when him not claiming leads to me tunneling gkrieg and maybe getting him lynched ? I guess if they're partners. Then if you're arguing I'm the one fakeclaiming, the issue is why do I bother with this at all in the first place ?
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Galzria

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Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
« Reply #741 on: January 03, 2018, 05:02:43 pm »

O really can't be lying about his PR, because why would scum!O claim when him not claiming leads to me tunneling gkrieg and maybe getting him lynched ? I guess if they're partners. Then if you're arguing I'm the one fakeclaiming, the issue is why do I bother with this at all in the first place ?

I think I need gkrieg to claim his night action (or lack thereof).

I refuse to do so.

I get that, so I'll put it another way: did you target me last night ?

vote: Teproc. Why would I ever claim my first target???  This is such a scummy question.

Agree. If the first target is evil, then they know their Oracle answer was inverted, which negates that part of his power.

Teproc - What value did you see in gkrieg disclosing this? Are you saying you tried to protect faust? My next question was going to be why didn't you, so that would fit.

Teproc, I understand you wanting to know if you were redirected, but you realize that it would also tell scum that their oracle answer is true or false, which completely takes away from my role.

I do but I kinda think if you redirected me then you're probably scum, and if you didn't it doesn't matter, so...
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Galzria

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Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
« Reply #742 on: January 03, 2018, 05:03:41 pm »

You said it yourself. You wanted to know if your Oracle result was true or not.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Teproc

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Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
« Reply #743 on: January 03, 2018, 05:04:36 pm »

Right... so the scum team picked me out of a hat to ask gkrieg that question, on the off chance that
a) he did target me
b) he'll claim it

?
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Robz888

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Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
« Reply #744 on: January 03, 2018, 05:05:47 pm »

You said it yourself. You wanted to know if your Oracle result was true or not.

Well that could support the lone Teproc!scum theory, sure. Not really the Teproc and O scum theory.
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Galzria

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Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
« Reply #745 on: January 03, 2018, 05:06:38 pm »

Right... so the scum team picked me out of a hat to ask gkrieg that question, on the off chance that
a) he did target me
b) he'll claim it

?

Of course. Your supposed PR plays it perfectly. Why wouldn't scum?
Logged
Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

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Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
« Reply #746 on: January 03, 2018, 05:07:22 pm »

I guess you'd say I used Tracker and somehow knew I got interferred with ? That assumes scum!me is using Tracker instead of the safe play (Ascetic kill), AND that I got to know my tracking was interferred with, which isn't that easy.
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O

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Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
« Reply #747 on: January 03, 2018, 05:07:29 pm »

wait so Teproc did all this crap to verify immediately whether his mildly-better-than-single-rolecop question was true, as opposed to waiting and seeing if Gkrieg even has this power?
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Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
« Reply #748 on: January 03, 2018, 05:08:01 pm »

Right... so the scum team picked me out of a hat to ask gkrieg that question, on the off chance that
a) he did target me
b) he'll claim it

?

Of course. Your supposed PR plays it perfectly. Why wouldn't scum?

Right, because scum!me doctored faust. I'm such a genius mafia player, such a next level play.
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Galzria

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Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
« Reply #749 on: January 03, 2018, 05:08:05 pm »

You said it yourself. You wanted to know if your Oracle result was true or not.

Well that could support the lone Teproc!scum theory, sure. Not really the Teproc and O scum theory.

It supports both. What if Gkrieg says "No, I didn't"? Then Teproc looks like a tool unless O is there to swoop in and take credit for the block.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20
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