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[EFHW]

so people keep mentioning not lynching based off pr's but noone mentions gkriegs pr is still the most dangerous to town since he can insta kill our weak cop.

I assume you meant the weak visitor, in which case this isn't really true, since it only works if we do indeed have a weak visitor and that's no guarantee.

How does gkrieg insta-kill the weak visitor? It doesn't look like he could kill anyone directly.

Gkrieg targets weak visitor, gkrieg redirects any action weak visitor takes and makes them target scum. Weak visitor dies and we don’t know why. This is in contrast to galz(fox) who needs gkrieg to target him in order to redirect the weak visitor onto scum.

Ok, I did not think of that. I can read the post as not scummy now. unvote

[EFHW]

Short-lived town read. vote: mcmc

Curious what caused said town read to go away? My analyzing of ways all the pr’s could negatively effect other prs, my high early activity which dropped off as the day went on and no one supported my gkrieg or robz votes and were content to wait for a Joseph default or no-lynch? Or was it my last minute vote for Joseph to prevent I lunch which puts me in unnecessary heat today (many people weren’t around, scum!mcmc could easily not posted). Just curious

Why so sarcastic? I thought you had scumslipped.

[Teproc]

K, whatever, I've said enought for anyone to figure it out anyway.

I'm a JOAT and I used my doctor shot to protect faust last night. FOur things (assuming flavor claims were truthful) could explain faust's death from there

1) DatSwan using Lightning Rod. Going to go ahead and rule out town!Swan doing this. Scum!Swan might, but it wouldn't be too hard to figure out from other potential PRs... so it doesn't seem like a great scum play either. Feel free to say it if you have a strong reason to believe this happened.

2) Andrew (now EFHW, One-Shot Vigilante that only works on Vanilla) shooting faust. There are a number of reasons why this is a very unlikely play from either alignment.

3) Universal Backup turned Roleblocker O targeting me. O did suspect me day 1, but if I'm scum I'm either
a) Vanilla and probably not doing the kill
b) JOAT using Ascetic

So I don't think town!O roleblocks me. Scum!O might, to ensure that the faust kill goes through.

And then there's gkrieg. I can't really see a reason for town!gkrieg to target me because again, it's either
a) I'm vanilla not doing the kill because active players with a decent amount of suspicion don't do the kill
b) I'm a JOAT and I'm using Ascetic.

scum!gkrieg totally does have incentive to divert me, because it ensures the faust kill AND it disrupts my tracking if I choose to do that, might even get some confusion later on.

So I think our lynchpool today should be {gkrieg, O}. I guess that'd be {gkrieg, O, Teproc} for everyone else. gkrieg refusing to answer my second question indicates to me that he did target me. Town!gkrieg who's vanilla doesn't mind claiming he didn''t target me, and neither does town!gkrieg who targeted someone else. And again, I don't see why town!gkrieg targets me, so...

vote: gkrieg

PPE: 3

[EFHW]

I don't think his not answering confirms that he targeted you.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

1 doesn't work. Lightning Rod redirects the NK too.

[ashersky]

vote: o

He def targets Tep a fair amount of the time.

[Eevee]

I didn’t shoot faust.

[gkrieg13]

K, whatever, I've said enought for anyone to figure it out anyway.

I'm a JOAT and I used my doctor shot to protect faust last night. FOur things (assuming flavor claims were truthful) could explain faust's death from there

1) DatSwan using Lightning Rod. Going to go ahead and rule out town!Swan doing this. Scum!Swan might, but it wouldn't be too hard to figure out from other potential PRs... so it doesn't seem like a great scum play either. Feel free to say it if you have a strong reason to believe this happened.

2) Andrew (now EFHW, One-Shot Vigilante that only works on Vanilla) shooting faust. There are a number of reasons why this is a very unlikely play from either alignment.

3) Universal Backup turned Roleblocker O targeting me. O did suspect me day 1, but if I'm scum I'm either
a) Vanilla and probably not doing the kill
b) JOAT using Ascetic

So I don't think town!O roleblocks me. Scum!O might, to ensure that the faust kill goes through.

And then there's gkrieg. I can't really see a reason for town!gkrieg to target me because again, it's either
a) I'm vanilla not doing the kill because active players with a decent amount of suspicion don't do the kill
b) I'm a JOAT and I'm using Ascetic.

scum!gkrieg totally does have incentive to divert me, because it ensures the faust kill AND it disrupts my tracking if I choose to do that, might even get some confusion later on.

So I think our lynchpool today should be {gkrieg, O}. I guess that'd be {gkrieg, O, Teproc} for everyone else. gkrieg refusing to answer my second question indicates to me that he did target me. Town!gkrieg who's vanilla doesn't mind claiming he didn''t target me, and neither does town!gkrieg who targeted someone else. And again, I don't see why town!gkrieg targets me, so...

vote: gkrieg

PPE: 3

Your analysis is wrong. If I’m vanilla, I want scum to be scared of my PR and think there is a possibility that their oracle is flipped. Also you aren’t a town read for me, so why would I claim if I targeted you?

I did not target you last night.

[Robz888]

K, whatever, I've said enought for anyone to figure it out anyway.

I'm a JOAT and I used my doctor shot to protect faust last night. FOur things (assuming flavor claims were truthful) could explain faust's death from there

1) DatSwan using Lightning Rod. Going to go ahead and rule out town!Swan doing this. Scum!Swan might, but it wouldn't be too hard to figure out from other potential PRs... so it doesn't seem like a great scum play either. Feel free to say it if you have a strong reason to believe this happened.

2) Andrew (now EFHW, One-Shot Vigilante that only works on Vanilla) shooting faust. There are a number of reasons why this is a very unlikely play from either alignment.

3) Universal Backup turned Roleblocker O targeting me. O did suspect me day 1, but if I'm scum I'm either
a) Vanilla and probably not doing the kill
b) JOAT using Ascetic

So I don't think town!O roleblocks me. Scum!O might, to ensure that the faust kill goes through.

And then there's gkrieg. I can't really see a reason for town!gkrieg to target me because again, it's either
a) I'm vanilla not doing the kill because active players with a decent amount of suspicion don't do the kill
b) I'm a JOAT and I'm using Ascetic.

scum!gkrieg totally does have incentive to divert me, because it ensures the faust kill AND it disrupts my tracking if I choose to do that, might even get some confusion later on.

So I think our lynchpool today should be {gkrieg, O}. I guess that'd be {gkrieg, O, Teproc} for everyone else. gkrieg refusing to answer my second question indicates to me that he did target me. Town!gkrieg who's vanilla doesn't mind claiming he didn''t target me, and neither does town!gkrieg who targeted someone else. And again, I don't see why town!gkrieg targets me, so...

vote: gkrieg

PPE: 3

You being roleblocked by O seems like a simpler explanation to me. And I could very well see town!O (calamitously) deciding to block you last night. I don't know why you'd be particularly unlikely to perform the kill.

O, did you block Teproc?

[Teproc]

K, whatever, I've said enought for anyone to figure it out anyway.

I'm a JOAT and I used my doctor shot to protect faust last night. FOur things (assuming flavor claims were truthful) could explain faust's death from there

1) DatSwan using Lightning Rod. Going to go ahead and rule out town!Swan doing this. Scum!Swan might, but it wouldn't be too hard to figure out from other potential PRs... so it doesn't seem like a great scum play either. Feel free to say it if you have a strong reason to believe this happened.

2) Andrew (now EFHW, One-Shot Vigilante that only works on Vanilla) shooting faust. There are a number of reasons why this is a very unlikely play from either alignment.

3) Universal Backup turned Roleblocker O targeting me. O did suspect me day 1, but if I'm scum I'm either
a) Vanilla and probably not doing the kill
b) JOAT using Ascetic

So I don't think town!O roleblocks me. Scum!O might, to ensure that the faust kill goes through.

And then there's gkrieg. I can't really see a reason for town!gkrieg to target me because again, it's either
a) I'm vanilla not doing the kill because active players with a decent amount of suspicion don't do the kill
b) I'm a JOAT and I'm using Ascetic.

scum!gkrieg totally does have incentive to divert me, because it ensures the faust kill AND it disrupts my tracking if I choose to do that, might even get some confusion later on.

So I think our lynchpool today should be {gkrieg, O}. I guess that'd be {gkrieg, O, Teproc} for everyone else. gkrieg refusing to answer my second question indicates to me that he did target me. Town!gkrieg who's vanilla doesn't mind claiming he didn''t target me, and neither does town!gkrieg who targeted someone else. And again, I don't see why town!gkrieg targets me, so...

vote: gkrieg

PPE: 3

Your analysis is wrong. If I’m vanilla, I want scum to be scared of my PR and think there is a possibility that their oracle is flipped. Also you aren’t a town read for me, so why would I claim if I targeted you?

I did not target you last night.

My first question didn't work for vanilla!you, but I then asked you to specifically claim whether or not you targeted me. As you're doing it right now, you see how that's not a problem to answer, right ?

@Robz Active players don't typically do NKs, unless strongman/ninja is involved, don't you agree ? I'm a somewhat likely investigation target in general, or at least I assume I am when scum. Also, the possibility that I'd have ascetic at my disposal makes roleblocking me pretty bad.

I guess Andrew is now Eevee, not EFHW, got confused there. And IDPTG is right about Lightning Rod, I think I remember playing with a version that didn't affect kills but this one does.

gkrieg claiming not to have targeted me now doesn't change my mind. In fact, that gkrieg chose to answer when the parameters of the question really didn't change, why ?

[Teproc]

I mean, yeah, maybe O will come in and say he's a roleblocker and he targeted me and maybe he's town and just did a dumb thing and I outed him and me for nothing. But also gkrieg is just scummy, so we can lynch him even if that happens.

[Robz888]

I mean, yeah, maybe O will come in and say he's a roleblocker and he targeted me and maybe he's town and just did a dumb thing and I outed him and me for nothing. But also gkrieg is just scummy, so we can lynch him even if that happens.

Well now you're arguing for lynching gkrieg, even if O theoretically disproves the thing causing you to suspect him? That's kind of scummy on its own.

[Robz888]

In the meantime, I have a case to make on mcmc.

So, mcmc neighborized me on Day 1, we had a couple IRL days of chatting. To say that he was acting suspiciously in this thread would be an understatement. The big thing is that he continuously goaded me to reveal to him whether I actually had 1-shot Deathproof, something I'm sure scum would really like to know.

I said as much in our thread, and then he started gradually claiming to have a stronger and stronger scum read on me, which read to me as a defensive move.

Now he's still listing me in his top suspects, but he's not voting for me. I think if town!mcmc had such a strong scum read on me, he would be voting for me. And if he was town suspecting I might be scum but not convinced enough to vote, I would have expected him to re-neighborize me today. He did not.

I agree that he's been acting townie-seeming in the main thread, but I don't know that scum!mcmc is incapable of doing that. He's not played a game in a while, this is his only game, he's refreshed, he's in top shape to try to pull this off.

Vote: mcmcsalot

[Teproc]

I suspected gkrieg before. I was hoping this would convince other people.

I really don't expect town!O to have roleblocked me anyway, but we'll see.

[EFHW]

Mcmc, how would you describe the course of your chats with Robz?

[EFHW]

Scum!Teproc could be saying he was roleblocked to cover for not having protected faust.

[EFHW]

I guess I do have to agree with Teproc that the  lynchpool for today needs to be {gkrieg, O, Teproc}, unless someone can think of another way faust could have died. Maybe add in Eevee  if scum used his one vig shot to double kill faust. Doubtful but theoretically possible.

[Archetype]

Vote Count 2.1

Teproc (1): gkrieg13
gkrieg(2): mcmcsalot, Teproc
O (1): ashersky
mcmcsalot (1): Robz888

Not Voting (7): Galzria, DatSwan, O, Eevee, chairs, IDontPlayThisGame, EFHW

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Day 2 will end January 8th at 7:00 PM.

[Swowl]

I am still out of town until tomorrow. But to summarize:
1) I did not use lighning rod last night
2) I do not think that GK usining a redirect on Teproc makes him skummy, whether or not that happened.
3) The Teproc I know is different then the Teproc I am playing with... and I have only played with Town!Teproc

Vote:Teproc

[mcmcsalot]

Mcmc, how would you describe the course of your chats with Robz?

I was enthusiastic to discuss reads. I did analyze his role and discuss the idea that because the setup allows for one no lynch (if 3 scum one no lynch keeps the same number of number of potential mislynches) it might be a good idea for town to burn robz potential 1-shot death proof. If town it’s a Good Power, if scum it’s an insanely strong Power that a fact. Add in what I said about no lynches, burning a town!robz 1sdp doesn’t change the number of potential mislynches we can do. That paranoid him reasonably so but as far as my read thoughts, he felt forced and overly concerned about my alignment. It came across to me as “I have to be wary of your alignment to seem like I don’t know you are town”. I am fully aware that could be because we have both taken some games off but truly it felt forced. That led to my scum read on him growing as the day went on.

[chairs]

Kinda leaning towards vote: robz here tbh.

[gkrieg13]

K, whatever, I've said enought for anyone to figure it out anyway.

I'm a JOAT and I used my doctor shot to protect faust last night. FOur things (assuming flavor claims were truthful) could explain faust's death from there

1) DatSwan using Lightning Rod. Going to go ahead and rule out town!Swan doing this. Scum!Swan might, but it wouldn't be too hard to figure out from other potential PRs... so it doesn't seem like a great scum play either. Feel free to say it if you have a strong reason to believe this happened.

2) Andrew (now EFHW, One-Shot Vigilante that only works on Vanilla) shooting faust. There are a number of reasons why this is a very unlikely play from either alignment.

3) Universal Backup turned Roleblocker O targeting me. O did suspect me day 1, but if I'm scum I'm either
a) Vanilla and probably not doing the kill
b) JOAT using Ascetic

So I don't think town!O roleblocks me. Scum!O might, to ensure that the faust kill goes through.

And then there's gkrieg. I can't really see a reason for town!gkrieg to target me because again, it's either
a) I'm vanilla not doing the kill because active players with a decent amount of suspicion don't do the kill
b) I'm a JOAT and I'm using Ascetic.

scum!gkrieg totally does have incentive to divert me, because it ensures the faust kill AND it disrupts my tracking if I choose to do that, might even get some confusion later on.

So I think our lynchpool today should be {gkrieg, O}. I guess that'd be {gkrieg, O, Teproc} for everyone else. gkrieg refusing to answer my second question indicates to me that he did target me. Town!gkrieg who's vanilla doesn't mind claiming he didn''t target me, and neither does town!gkrieg who targeted someone else. And again, I don't see why town!gkrieg targets me, so...

vote: gkrieg

PPE: 3

Your analysis is wrong. If I’m vanilla, I want scum to be scared of my PR and think there is a possibility that their oracle is flipped. Also you aren’t a town read for me, so why would I claim if I targeted you?

I did not target you last night.

My first question didn't work for vanilla!you, but I then asked you to specifically claim whether or not you targeted me. As you're doing it right now, you see how that's not a problem to answer, right ?

@Robz Active players don't typically do NKs, unless strongman/ninja is involved, don't you agree ? I'm a somewhat likely investigation target in general, or at least I assume I am when scum. Also, the possibility that I'd have ascetic at my disposal makes roleblocking me pretty bad.

I guess Andrew is now Eevee, not EFHW, got confused there. And IDPTG is right about Lightning Rod, I think I remember playing with a version that didn't affect kills but this one does.

gkrieg claiming not to have targeted me now doesn't change my mind. In fact, that gkrieg chose to answer when the parameters of the question really didn't change, why ?

I didn’t want to claim to have not targeted you because I had forgotten your role. Also, I realized that claiming to not have targeted you doesn’t tell mafia if their oracle answer is inverted or not. I hadn’t thought it through all the way as I’m still V/LA.

[gkrieg13]

I mean, yeah, maybe O will come in and say he's a roleblocker and he targeted me and maybe he's town and just did a dumb thing and I outed him and me for nothing. But also gkrieg is just scummy, so we can lynch him even if that happens.

How have I been scummy?  Is it still because of the ash thing?

[Robz888]

Mcmc, how would you describe the course of your chats with Robz?

I was enthusiastic to discuss reads. I did analyze his role and discuss the idea that because the setup allows for one no lynch (if 3 scum one no lynch keeps the same number of number of potential mislynches) it might be a good idea for town to burn robz potential 1-shot death proof. If town it’s a Good Power, if scum it’s an insanely strong Power that a fact. Add in what I said about no lynches, burning a town!robz 1sdp doesn’t change the number of potential mislynches we can do. That paranoid him reasonably so but as far as my read thoughts, he felt forced and overly concerned about my alignment. It came across to me as “I have to be wary of your alignment to seem like I don’t know you are town”. I am fully aware that could be because we have both taken some games off but truly it felt forced. That led to my scum read on him growing as the day went on.

There's no such thing as being "overly concerned" about your alignment, that's the entire game. You were overly concerned about whether I was scum-reading you, though. Transparently so. You said something at one point (I'm paraphrasing) about being surprised that I sounded like I might think you were scum. You were nervous and tying to ferret out information from me the entire thread... not information about my alignment, but information about what whether I was onto you.

[mcmcsalot]

I mean, yeah, maybe O will come in and say he's a roleblocker and he targeted me and maybe he's town and just did a dumb thing and I outed him and me for nothing. But also gkrieg is just scummy, so we can lynch him even if that happens.

How have I been scummy?  Is it still because of the ash thing?

That’s early d1 stuff, however your pushing of the Joseph wagon which is now a confirmed town makes your late day 1 play scummy.

Time to reread some things.