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Author Topic: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (GAME OVER - EVIL PLAYERS WIN)  (Read 35734 times)

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ashersky

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Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
« Reply #350 on: December 21, 2017, 06:25:48 pm »

i am providing opinions, though, for the post-Mortem.

On Robz/Mcmc: I think robz jumped the gun in reacting to my fake counterclaim.  Heís not as focused as usual, saw town counter his partner, immediately voted one of the claimants.

But he forget his own rule ó second claimer is always telling the truth (as scum usually wants to get out in front and set the stage).  Town!robz just as easily misreacts to a fake counterclaim ó only scum!robz automatically ďknowsĒ which one is lying.

So thatís where they leaked info, in my opinion.  Just a simple slip from Robz that he had more info than he should about Mcmc.

So here you are saying that Robz is scum if mcmcsalot is scum?

Definitely.  100%.

Iím also saying Robz is scum if mcmcsalot is town, but only 93%.
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2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

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Town: 47 Games, 24 Wins
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ashersky

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Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
« Reply #351 on: December 21, 2017, 06:27:05 pm »

I think I can actively drive my mislynch here if I want.  Great feeling of freedom.

You know my favorite part of being mislynched?  Lording the mistakes over those players who thought they were so right.  Especially when I get the win anyway as long as Town recovers.

You understand that your mislynch could potentially result in 2 town deaths though...

Yes, I do.  And in fact is more likely, if allowed to be hammered organically.  We should definitely force a scummy player to hammer.  I vote Robz, of course, but there may be a consensus pick elsewhere.
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f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

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Town: 47 Games, 24 Wins
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chairs

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Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
« Reply #352 on: December 21, 2017, 06:32:24 pm »

vote: Robz

chairs

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Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
« Reply #353 on: December 21, 2017, 06:33:11 pm »

FIRST!

vote: ashersky for not posting.

Why is Ashersky not posting scummy?

He's actively preventing us from getting a read on him by his inaction.

Hello! Every time I post, please, someone, reply "GO FINISH YOUR BOOK."

Are we going to massclaim right away, or have a long argument about it and then massclaim anyway?

Like... maybe the solution is we don't massclaim? Or we discuss -what- we're going to massclaim?

IDK.

FWIW: If we're going to do this, I think we all claim how many heroes we listed first. Then we claim flavor name. Then we claim our lists.

I think that maximizes the opportunity for somebody to get caught in a lie.

Here, I'll start even, so we can just get on with it.

I'm Captain Falcon.

No posts from you between these. Why the sudden and drastic change in opinion about how we should claim?

Because between these two posts I realized i was just going to make myself angry by trying to push for something I saw as more beneficial to Town, when the most beneficial thing is to just get discussion going.

Galzria

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Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
« Reply #354 on: December 21, 2017, 06:39:36 pm »

so nobody else finds it suspicious that two people with very strong incentives to pull off a bus if both scum found themselves both encouraging one to hammer the other?

I find it manufactured, but not alignment indicative. So what if Robz hammers and doesn't die? Doesn't make him scum. Just means either Ash isn't active or they both are. It's advantageous at this point and time to both play off the idea that they are active.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

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Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
« Reply #355 on: December 21, 2017, 06:42:11 pm »

Iím the real RB, Mcmc, Yuma will back me up.

bowser

Last claim. Convenient claim. Good way to avoid being the lynch. If you're town then scum will never hammer you and town absolutely shouldn't do so. If you're scum then scum will NEVER hammer you, and town probably should - but it would need to be 100%.

Town Ash:
Scum Hammer: 0
Town Hammer: 0

Scum Ash:
Scum Hammer: 0
Town Hammer: 1

Further - If you're Mafia then you only have to worry about a potential SK or (if you're Vanilla) Andrew (If he's town himself and has the Vig power). If you're town then you have as much to worry about at night as anybody.

For the record, you could be Bowser. You could also be:
Mario
Donkey Kong
Samus
Ness
Peach
Zelda
Jigglypuff
Luigi
Roy
Dr. Mario
Young Link

Some of those are trackable and verifiable. Others less so.

1) I think you are missing Falco from the FC list (not that it matters)
2) The set up dictates there are not Traitor or Survivor variants or any kind. Is SK not a variant of Survivor?
3) I think to say that skum would NEVER hammer, is an overstatement. Example - if it is Robz!Ash as Deathproof and Bowser... not saying it is likely, just saying there may be exceptions to keep in mind.


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Town:  12 wins, 9 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 6 wins, 5 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 2 wins, 1 loss

Teproc

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Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
« Reply #356 on: December 21, 2017, 06:48:16 pm »

I agree with Galz that the ash/Robz hammer thing is mostly them WIFOMing their PR being active, which is fine and all but not particularly interesting re: alignment.
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Swowl

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Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
« Reply #357 on: December 21, 2017, 06:56:25 pm »

Bowser claim/claim order thoughts:

1) If you were to pick Bowser, and then receive a Town alignment, and an active PR - would you not be more quick off the draw when it came to claiming? You have the role and you know what it is going to look like when you claim last right?

2) As Skum - Wait til the back. Important note, wait til the back when you know Kirby is in the game. Situtation one, you are safe because kill back potential. Situation 2, it doesn't work, you still get lynched, take out the Town hammer, and you turn Kirby into Bowser. If Kirby = Town, and we assuming again Skum will not hammer, this is the original Bowser kill back, plus the Kirby death (if it happens), and the Town Hammer kill back (if it happens).... lots of words in a row and I have been known to be overly paranoid, but just saying.

3) As Town - Why wait until the back of order? You create confusion for your team with the fake claim theories that will assuredly come out, and you have to know it will be a town hammer if you go down so why draw more attention then needed?
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Town:  12 wins, 9 losses (1 MVP)
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IDontPlayThisGame

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Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
« Reply #358 on: December 21, 2017, 07:53:12 pm »

This just seems like a really ashersky thing to do. I'm not seeing the scumread, but if he wants to be today's lynch I won't stop him.

Robz888

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Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
« Reply #359 on: December 21, 2017, 08:28:03 pm »

Ash claimed at the end--giving him the opportunity to claim something other than what he actually had--and what he claimed is like one of the things that makes you absolutely not want to lynch him. So that's scummy in a vacuum.

That said I'm pretty sure he's actually Boswer, because it seems like something ashersky would pick. I can absolutely see ash being a little too eager to get himself lynched pronto so he can use this power...

Huh, maybe I'm talking myself out of my scum read here.
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I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.

mcmcsalot

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Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
« Reply #360 on: December 21, 2017, 08:37:32 pm »

mcmc, why is gkrieg scummy ? Because his defense of ash was bad ? It wasn't bad though.

I thought it was point out with context of the time why it was a good defense.
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

mcmcsalot

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Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
« Reply #361 on: December 21, 2017, 08:39:38 pm »

Well that's more like town!ash.

I will point out that I have that list of PRs (and a list of the flavor of the people in the game obviously) in a Word document, and I'd expect someone like Galz to have that too.

vote:seanbean
Vote: Teproc

It is time.

Time to redo Insomnia Mafia ? It doesn't work, man, I think you're town !

If it'll help, I think it's weird that seanbean (can we just call him Boromir ? Or Ned ?) claimed without hesitating at all, for a newbie.

I see your point, but I don't think it is that weird, given the rate at which people were claiming.
I agree with this and robz point, I think itís actually more towny how Sean claimed, he was late but that seems like his activity.
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

AndrewisFTTW

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Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
« Reply #362 on: December 21, 2017, 09:29:46 pm »

Very sorry everyone. I might have time to read tomorrow, definitely by Saturday I'll have some content for you.
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Wins: M39, M41, M48, M96, M97, M102, M105
Losses: M40, M43, M45, BM17 (?), RMM13, RMM17, RMM20, NM7, ZM18, M100, M109
MVPs: M97
Mod/Co-Mod: M46, M49, M52, NM10

Archetype

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Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (N0)
« Reply #363 on: December 21, 2017, 09:43:36 pm »

Vote Count 1.4

ashersky(2): Robz888, O
gkrieg13(2):Joseph2302, mcmcsalot
Joseph2302(2): gkrieg13, Galzria
seanbean(1): Teproc
Teproc(1): faust
Robz888(1): chairs

Not Voting (5): ashersky, DatSwan, seanbean, AndrewisFTTW, IDontPlayThisGame

With 14 alive it takes 8 to lynch. Day 1 will end December 27th at 7:00 PM.

where does the joatís 1-Shot ascetic go in the resolution chain and is it targetable on someone or only self targeted?
It occurs in the Blocking phase of the action resolution (so after Sidekick but before Redirector). It is not a targeted action - the user simply 'becomes' Ascetic for that night a la Falco's ability.
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faust

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Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
« Reply #364 on: December 22, 2017, 01:42:36 am »

2) The set up dictates there are not Traitor or Survivor variants or any kind. Is SK not a variant of Survivor?
Yeah, it is very explicitly stated that there are only 2 alignments.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

Swowl

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Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
« Reply #365 on: December 22, 2017, 01:50:22 am »

Master Hand - can you confirm that Serial Killer is not an option that could possibly exist in this game?
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Town:  12 wins, 9 losses (1 MVP)
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3-Party: 2 wins, 1 loss

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Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
« Reply #366 on: December 22, 2017, 01:53:57 am »

Question based on inexperience:
As skum, what roles would be considered strong enough to protect with switching claims? Assuming the strong role is active of course.
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Town:  12 wins, 9 losses (1 MVP)
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faust

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Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
« Reply #367 on: December 22, 2017, 02:07:33 am »

Master Hand - can you confirm that Serial Killer is not an option that could possibly exist in this game?

Is this not good enough for you?

Once each player has a character, three are chosen to be aligned with Evil (more if more people sign up).

[...]

The remaining will be aligned with Good.

It bothers me when people cause more more for the mods unnecessarily. I realize I did the same with my untimely prod request. Sorry!
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

faust

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Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
« Reply #368 on: December 22, 2017, 02:08:38 am »

*more work, that should read
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

faust

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Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
« Reply #369 on: December 22, 2017, 02:13:26 am »

This just seems like a really ashersky thing to do. I'm not seeing the scumread, but if he wants to be today's lynch I won't stop him.
Do you by any chance have thoughts on anyone else?
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

faust

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Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
« Reply #370 on: December 22, 2017, 02:14:58 am »

ashersky, could you explain why you did not claim when you posted: "I counterclaim momsalon"?
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

Swowl

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Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
« Reply #371 on: December 22, 2017, 04:04:16 am »

Master Hand - can you confirm that Serial Killer is not an option that could possibly exist in this game?

Is this not good enough for you?

Once each player has a character, three are chosen to be aligned with Evil (more if more people sign up).

[...]

The remaining will be aligned with Good.

If it was, I would not of asked.

It bothers me when people cause more more for the mods unnecessarily. I realize I did the same with my untimely prod request. Sorry!

what is unnecessary for you, may not be the same for everyone. I have made enough mistakes in "assumptions" so far in my previous games to not feel bad about asking for simple clarifications from the one entity in the game I can actually rely on 100%. Also, FWIW, I assume by asking in the thread it saves the MOD time of potentially having to answer several of the same question in separate QTs.
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Town:  12 wins, 9 losses (1 MVP)
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3-Party: 2 wins, 1 loss

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Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
« Reply #372 on: December 22, 2017, 04:08:29 am »

Ash claimed at the end--giving him the opportunity to claim something other than what he actually had--and what he claimed is like one of the things that makes you absolutely not want to lynch him. So that's scummy in a vacuum.

That said I'm pretty sure he's actually Boswer, because it seems like something ashersky would pick. I can absolutely see ash being a little too eager to get himself lynched pronto so he can use this power...


I am *assuming* you are referencing a scenario of Town!Ash here. If that is the case, why would he be eager? Assuming also that skum would not hammer a potential Town!Bowser, what is to be gained from pushing a lynch on himself "pronto"?
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Town:  12 wins, 9 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 6 wins, 5 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 2 wins, 1 loss

faust

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Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
« Reply #373 on: December 22, 2017, 04:33:35 am »

Well, I thionk it's relatively straightforward right ? If Samus was higher in Swan's list than what he got, it straight up means someone is lying, right ? Or am I missing something ?
Rereading Teproc, I think this is enough to make me reconsider my vote for now... let's check out other options!
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

faust

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Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
« Reply #374 on: December 22, 2017, 04:41:17 am »

happy to lynch either

chairs is a decent lynch because his role is useless, and most roles seem pretty positive overall for town compared than scum.

Andrew: Ganon seems like the main scum-favored utility role: if town, how many scum are going to be vanilla? 1?

in terms of alignment reads, ehhh? neither here nor there. Refer to previous post for verdict.

This post I don't like at all. chairs is like the towniest player around. And his role is not useless if we believe scum lied. They are less likely to lie as chairs claimed first, but we might still catch them. There are a lot of roles that will be worse. At the very least, chairs may detect redirection.

Also, lynching because of roles is bad. I mean there are some players where their potential role leads me to not want to lynch them right away, but that is maybe 2 or 3 and the rest is fair game.

Vote: O
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.
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