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Author Topic: Empty the Changeling pile with one Action  (Read 1150 times)

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edk

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Empty the Changeling pile with one Action
« on: November 21, 2017, 09:44:09 pm »
+1

Start your turn with 5 cards in your hand.
Play only one card, which must be an Action card from Nocturne.
No other cards may be in play at any point in your turn.
The Changeling pile must be full first, and be entirely in your discard pile afterwards.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2017, 09:59:47 pm by edk »
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Awaclus

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Re: Empty the Changeling pile with one Action
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2017, 09:50:57 pm »
+5

Play Necromancer into Trader and trash a Colony.
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edk

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Re: Empty the Changeling pile with one Action
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2017, 09:54:32 pm »
+3

Play Necromancer into Trader and trash a Colony.

This involves playing two Action cards: Necromancer and Trader. You're only allowed to play one.
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Awaclus

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Re: Empty the Changeling pile with one Action
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2017, 09:56:49 pm »
+1

Play Necromancer into Trader and trash a Colony.

This involves playing two Action cards: Necromancer and Trader. You're only allowed to play one.

It satisfies all of the conditions from the original puzzle. I start the turn with 5 cards, I play one Action card from Nocturne, no other cards are in play at any point in my turn, and the Changeling pile will be entirely in my discard pile immediately after Necromancer has finished resolving.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2017, 10:02:16 pm by Awaclus »
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edk

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Re: Empty the Changeling pile with one Action
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2017, 09:58:59 pm »
0

Play Necromancer into Trader and trash a Colony.

This involves playing two Action cards: Necromancer and Trader. You're only allowed to play one.

It satisfies all of the conditions from the original puzzle. I start the turn with 5 cards, I play one Action card from Nocturne, no other cards are in play at any point in my turn, and the Changeling pile will be entirely in my discard pile immediately after Necromancer has finished resolving.

I've changed it now. Only one Action card may be played during your turn, and that card must be from Nocturne.
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Awaclus

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Re: Empty the Changeling pile with one Action
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2017, 10:02:21 pm »
+4

Here's a solution that satisfies the new rule:

Have the +1 card token on Tragic Hero. Play Tragic Hero, trash it, reveal 7 Market Squares to gain 7 Changelings, use Tragic Hero to gain a Cache (-> Changeling) and reveal a Trader to gain Silvers instead of Coppers and exchange them into Changelings as well.
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edk

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Re: Empty the Changeling pile with one Action
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2017, 10:11:40 pm »
0

Here's a solution that satisfies the new rule:

Have the +1 card token on Tragic Hero. Play Tragic Hero, trash it, reveal 7 Market Squares to gain 7 Changelings, use Tragic Hero to gain a Cache (-> Changeling) and reveal a Trader to gain Silvers instead of Coppers and exchange them into Changelings as well.

Yes, that works, but it's not what I thought of originally. How many other choices of Action card to play are there?
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Re: Empty the Changeling pile with one Action
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2017, 12:34:45 am »
0

There's 25 "Action" cards in Nocturne. 6 are not Supply cards. I'm going to have to study the Events, Landmarks, and other card-shaped Dominion objects, and look over all the Tokens available.

It does seem like Trader is a pretty reliable way to gain Silver, which can be swapped for Changeling.
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dghunter79

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Re: Empty the Changeling pile with one Action
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2017, 02:50:18 am »
+4

Fool, receiving The Sun's Gift, The Wind's Gift, and The Sky's Gift to discard 4, 3, and 2 Tunnels to gain Gold nine times, exchanging each for Changeling, and then gaining a Gold from The Sky's Gift, exchanging for Changeling.

edk

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Re: Empty the Changeling pile with one Action
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2017, 03:15:38 am »
0

Fool, receiving The Sun's Gift, The Wind's Gift, and The Sky's Gift to discard 4, 3, and 2 Tunnels to gain Gold nine times, exchanging each for Changeling, and then gaining a Gold from The Sky's Gift, exchanging for Changeling.

Yes! Now assuming the Changeling pile is infinite, is there any way you could you get more than 10 Changelings?
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Re: Empty the Changeling pile with one Action
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2017, 04:36:54 am »
+2

Fool, receiving The Sun's Gift, The Wind's Gift, and The Sky's Gift to discard 4, 3, and 2 Tunnels to gain Gold nine times, exchanging each for Changeling, and then gaining a Gold from The Sky's Gift, exchanging for Changeling.

Yes! Now assuming the Changeling pile is infinite, is there any way you could you get more than 10 Changelings?
Receiving the Earth's Gift instead of the draw 2, discard 2 one, and having +1 card on Fool, allows you to have a Hand of 3 Tunnels, Copper, Trader after drawing. Gain Death Cart from the Earth's Gift and gain 3 Silvers, exchanging them for Changelings. That brings you up to 11 cards gained.
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Re: Empty the Changeling pile with one Action
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2017, 05:49:10 am »
+3

Kingdom: Duchess, Lurker, Changeling, Market Square, Watchtower, Death Cart, Necromancer, Trader, Hunting Grounds; Ferry, Inheritance.

Setup: Ferry then Inheritance on Hunting Grounds. Gain Zombie Mason from the trash with Lurker.
Hand: Zombie Mason, Market Square, Market Square, Trader, Watchtower.
Top of deck: Hunting Grounds.

We have Trader in hand, so can exchange anything for a Changeling.
Play Zombie Mason, trashing Hunting Grounds.
Gain 3 Estates, exchanging two for Changelings and trashing the third with Watchtower.
Repeat this n times, where n is the size of the Estate pile. By default n=8 but it can be increased.
From trashing the final Estate-Hunting Grounds, gain a Duchy, exchanging it for a Changeling, gaining a Duchess, exchanging that for a Changeling.
React to the first Hunting Grounds trash with two Market Squares, gaining 2 Golds, exchanging them for Changelings.
Zombie Mason lets you gain a card: gain a Death Cart, exchanging it for a Changeling, and with it get two Ruins, exchanging those for Changelings.

Total Changelings is 2n + 7, so 23 if n=8.

The maximum value possible for n is 12+3*6 = 30, in a 6 player game with Ambassador and Lighthouse. Although we only have one Kingdom card slot left, we could replace Trader, Watchtower and Lurker with Black Market to allow both Ambassador and Lighthouse.
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humcalc216

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Re: Empty the Changeling pile with one Action
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2017, 11:06:51 am »
0

Starting hand is Shepherd and 4 Tunnels.  Play Shepherd, discarding 4 Tunnels, gaining 4 Golds, exchanging 4 Golds for Changelings, drawing 8 cards, 6 of which are Tunnels.  Buy Quest, discarding 6 Tunnels, gaining 6 Golds, exchanging 6 Golds for Changelings, and then gaining another Gold (which you cannot exchange, since the Changeling pile is now empty).

EDIT: How many Changelings can this gain if the Changeling pile is infinite?  You can Seaway Shepherd prior to this turn, and you can assume that you actually drew 8 Tunnels off Shepherd (since you can redraw the ones you discarded).  Then, you can buy Quest twice (failing to gain anything from Quest the second time, since you only discarded 2 cards).  Over the course of this turn, you gained 13 Golds, so this can get you 13 Changelings.

EDIT 2: I guess my EDIT solution doesn't satisfy the requirement of the fact that the Changeling pile "must be entirely in your discard pile afterwards."  Four of them end up in your deck.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 11:21:18 am by humcalc216 »
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edk

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Re: Empty the Changeling pile with one Action
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2017, 11:27:51 am »
0

Starting hand is Shepherd and 4 Tunnels.  Play Shepherd, discarding 4 Tunnels, gaining 4 Golds, exchanging 4 Golds for Changelings, drawing 8 cards, 6 of which are Tunnels.  Buy Quest, discarding 6 Tunnels, gaining 6 Golds, exchanging 6 Golds for Changelings, and then gaining another Gold (which you cannot exchange, since the Changeling pile is now empty).

EDIT: How many Changelings can this gain if the Changeling pile is infinite?  You can Seaway Shepherd prior to this turn, and you can assume that you actually drew 8 Tunnels off Shepherd (since you can redraw the ones you discarded).  Then, you can buy Quest twice (failing to gain anything from Quest the second time, since you only discarded 2 cards).  Over the course of this turn, you gained 13 Golds, so this can get you 13 Changelings.

EDIT 2: I guess my EDIT solution doesn't satisfy the requirement of the fact that the Changeling pile "must be entirely in your discard pile afterwards."  Four of them end up in your deck.

The Changelings must be in your discard pile as soon as the Action card has been resolved, so this only counts as 4.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 12:35:38 pm by edk »
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edk

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Re: Empty the Changeling pile with one Action
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2017, 11:37:38 am »
0

Kingdom: Duchess, Lurker, Changeling, Market Square, Watchtower, Death Cart, Necromancer, Trader, Hunting Grounds; Ferry, Inheritance.

Setup: Ferry then Inheritance on Hunting Grounds. Gain Zombie Mason from the trash with Lurker.
Hand: Zombie Mason, Market Square, Market Square, Trader, Watchtower.
Top of deck: Hunting Grounds.

We have Trader in hand, so can exchange anything for a Changeling.
Play Zombie Mason, trashing Hunting Grounds.
Gain 3 Estates, exchanging two for Changelings and trashing the third with Watchtower.
Repeat this n times, where n is the size of the Estate pile. By default n=8 but it can be increased.
From trashing the final Estate-Hunting Grounds, gain a Duchy, exchanging it for a Changeling, gaining a Duchess, exchanging that for a Changeling.
React to the first Hunting Grounds trash with two Market Squares, gaining 2 Golds, exchanging them for Changelings.
Zombie Mason lets you gain a card: gain a Death Cart, exchanging it for a Changeling, and with it get two Ruins, exchanging those for Changelings.

Total Changelings is 2n + 7, so 23 if n=8.

The maximum value possible for n is 12+3*6 = 30, in a 6 player game with Ambassador and Lighthouse. Although we only have one Kingdom card slot left, we could replace Trader, Watchtower and Lurker with Black Market to allow both Ambassador and Lighthouse.

Very impressive. I originally thought 11 was the most possible. I'm going to have to look at other Dark Ages cards to see if the total can be made even higher.
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dghunter79

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Re: Empty the Changeling pile with one Action
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2017, 12:40:06 pm »
+2

Kingdom: Duchess, Lurker, Changeling, Market Square, Watchtower, Death Cart, Necromancer, Trader, Hunting Grounds; Ferry, Inheritance.

Setup: Ferry then Inheritance on Hunting Grounds. Gain Zombie Mason from the trash with Lurker.
Hand: Zombie Mason, Market Square, Market Square, Trader, Watchtower.
Top of deck: Hunting Grounds.

We have Trader in hand, so can exchange anything for a Changeling.
Play Zombie Mason, trashing Hunting Grounds.
Gain 3 Estates, exchanging two for Changelings and trashing the third with Watchtower.
Repeat this n times, where n is the size of the Estate pile. By default n=8 but it can be increased.
From trashing the final Estate-Hunting Grounds, gain a Duchy, exchanging it for a Changeling, gaining a Duchess, exchanging that for a Changeling.
React to the first Hunting Grounds trash with two Market Squares, gaining 2 Golds, exchanging them for Changelings.
Zombie Mason lets you gain a card: gain a Death Cart, exchanging it for a Changeling, and with it get two Ruins, exchanging those for Changelings.

Total Changelings is 2n + 7, so 23 if n=8.

The maximum value possible for n is 12+3*6 = 30, in a 6 player game with Ambassador and Lighthouse. Although we only have one Kingdom card slot left, we could replace Trader, Watchtower and Lurker with Black Market to allow both Ambassador and Lighthouse.

Nice!

Instead of gaining a Death Cart from Mason, you can gain Cursed Village, receiving Locusts, and trashing a Catacombs to gain two Death Carts.

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Re: Empty the Changeling pile with one Action
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2017, 11:01:17 am »
0

Play Necromancer into Trader and trash a Colony.

This involves playing two Action cards: Necromancer and Trader. You're only allowed to play one.

It satisfies all of the conditions from the original puzzle. I start the turn with 5 cards, I play one Action card from Nocturne, no other cards are in play at any point in my turn, and the Changeling pile will be entirely in my discard pile immediately after Necromancer has finished resolving.

I've changed it now. Only one Action card may be played during your turn, and that card must be from Nocturne.

Is it all right to play Dismantle, which is AFTER Nocturne, which is from Nocturne (to the latest expansion)?

Is it all right to ask other players to help?

play Sacred Glove to receive The Earth's Gifts to gain Feoda, revealing Watchtowers to trash them to gain Silvers, exchanging them to Changelings
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Re: Empty the Changeling pile with one Action
« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2017, 06:50:23 pm »
+1

this could go a lot higher.
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Re: Empty the Changeling pile with one Action
« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2017, 07:16:19 pm »
+1

Hmmm I was thinking about something very complex, but then I stumbled upon something simple that just works with the current rules?

You play Necromancer into Treasure Hunter and gain 2000 silvers.

why 2000, you ask?
« Last Edit: November 24, 2017, 07:18:08 pm by -Stef- »
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faust

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Re: Empty the Changeling pile with one Action
« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2017, 06:00:21 am »
0

Hmmm I was thinking about something very complex, but then I stumbled upon something simple that just works with the current rules?

You play Necromancer into Treasure Hunter and gain 2000 silvers.

why 2000, you ask?
Only actions from Nocturne allowed.
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Awaclus

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Re: Empty the Changeling pile with one Action
« Reply #20 on: November 25, 2017, 06:37:17 am »
0

Hmmm I was thinking about something very complex, but then I stumbled upon something simple that just works with the current rules?

You play Necromancer into Treasure Hunter and gain 2000 silvers.

why 2000, you ask?
Only actions from Nocturne allowed.

Also you can't play Necromancer into anything because that's two cards.
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Re: Empty the Changeling pile with one Action
« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2017, 08:31:07 am »
+2

Hmmm I was thinking about something very complex, but then I stumbled upon something simple that just works with the current rules?

You play Necromancer into Treasure Hunter and gain 2000 silvers.

why 2000, you ask?
Only actions from Nocturne allowed.

Also you can't play Necromancer into anything because that's two cards.

Hmm, ok. It's one card but it is two plays yes.
So here is without breaking that rule:

[hand: 3x cultist, catacombs, copper]

play fool
  discard copper
  gain cemetery(1)

trash 3x cultist, catacombs
  draw 7x cultist, 2x catacombs
  gain cemetery(2)

[hand: 7x cultist, 2x catacombs]

trash 3x cultist, catacombs
  draw 7x catacombs, 2x feodum
  gain cemetery(3)

[hand: 4x cultist, 8x catacombs, 2x feodum]

trash 3x cultist, catacombs
  draw 6x feodum, 3x squire
  gain cemetery(4)

[hand: 1x cultist, 7x catacombs, 8x feodum, 3x squire]

trash 1x cultist, 3x catacombs
  draw hunting grounds, watchtower, trader
  gain 3x cemetery(5, 6, 7)

[hand: 4x catacombs, 8x feodum, 1x squire, Trader]

12 trashes + 3 (trash catacombs -> cemetery(8 )) = 15 trashes

trash 3 catacombs (death cart, 3 each), 8 feodum (3 each) and 3 squires (skulk, 2 each)

this is 32.

Now we get to trash the hunting grounds and with the fore mentioned inheritance-ferry trick we can gain 2 more for every estate.

I think we're at 48 now?

oh and you can exchange the cemeteries for free so 56.
And then we still get to resolve the other two boons from the fool. Probably can get a few more there.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2017, 08:32:22 am by -Stef- »
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Re: Empty the Changeling pile with one Action
« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2017, 10:35:22 am »
+1

You can Sun's Gift 4 Tunnels to get 4 more, and if you start with 3 more tunnels in hand you can Sky's Gift to get another 4. Could probably be improved though.
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