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Author Topic: Nocturne has been released, go buy it!  (Read 2413 times)

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popsofctown

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Re: Nocturne has been released, go buy it!
« Reply #25 on: November 24, 2017, 08:15:04 pm »
0

Is there an appearance rate bonus to Nocturne?  It seems to show up more often than it should
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werothegreat

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Re: Nocturne has been released, go buy it!
« Reply #26 on: November 24, 2017, 10:41:20 pm »
+2

Is there an appearance rate bonus to Nocturne?  It seems to show up more often than it should

It is rather a large set.
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Re: Nocturne has been released, go buy it!
« Reply #27 on: November 28, 2017, 04:48:50 pm »
+4

Maybe I'm misunderstanding but is there a way to see what happened when a Night phase was the last thing that happened in a game? So say I buy the last Province, then play Werewolf - I never get to see what the Hex was (unless it required user input like discarding cards). It matters because it could have, say, been a Hex that gave a Curse. Or does the last Night phase not happen, kind of like the game ending with Donate or Mission? I doubt this is the case though because ShiT does make me do the stuff during the last Night phase. Until game logs are released, I don't see a way to know this - which is weird cus like I said it could affect the outcome of the game.
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Jeebus

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Re: Nocturne has been released, go buy it!
« Reply #28 on: November 29, 2017, 02:30:48 pm »
+2

It's always been a problem that you can't see the last thing that happened in the game. Often it's obvious, but sometimes it isn't, and with Night cards "sometimes" is more often. Before, there was a log, which was an okay substitute for not seeing the last thing. But since that was removed, there's nothing - except reloading the game and choosing to play as your opponent. I'm not sure if that always lets you see exactly what happened. To me this is a major flaw in the implementation, to the extent that they shouldn't even charge full price for it until this is fixed.

JW

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Re: Nocturne has been released, go buy it!
« Reply #29 on: November 29, 2017, 02:35:49 pm »
+2

Maybe I'm misunderstanding but is there a way to see what happened when a Night phase was the last thing that happened in a game? So say I buy the last Province, then play Werewolf - I never get to see what the Hex was (unless it required user input like discarding cards). It matters because it could have, say, been a Hex that gave a Curse.

The quickest way to see which Hex was revealed in this circumstance seems to be to reload the game from a few steps before the end, not buy the last Province, and then play Werewolf to see which Hex it was. Having the log available after the game ends would be a large improvement.
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popsofctown

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Re: Nocturne has been released, go buy it!
« Reply #30 on: November 29, 2017, 10:59:54 pm »
0

It's always been a problem that you can't see the last thing that happened in the game. Often it's obvious, but sometimes it isn't, and with Night cards "sometimes" is more often. Before, there was a log, which was an okay substitute for not seeing the last thing. But since that was removed, there's nothing - except reloading the game and choosing to play as your opponent. I'm not sure if that always lets you see exactly what happened. To me this is a major flaw in the implementation, to the extent that they shouldn't even charge full price for it until this is fixed.
I don't know if I've ever seen someone take the moral high ground on paying for a piece of software, citing a missing cosmetic feature. But looking back on the goko, I'm thrilled that that's the content of a modern day smear against online Dominion.

« Last Edit: November 29, 2017, 11:03:27 pm by popsofctown »
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Jeebus

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Re: Nocturne has been released, go buy it!
« Reply #31 on: November 29, 2017, 11:12:45 pm »
0

I don't know if I've ever seen someone take the moral high ground on paying for a piece of software, citing a missing cosmetic feature. But looking back on the goko, I'm thrilled that that's the content of a modern day smear against online Dominion.

I don't really get what you're saying with that last sentence or the comparison with Goko. But anyway, I don't see it as a cosmetic feature when part of the game is actually missing. Sure, technically you can go look it up, but I'm almost positive only a minority of players would know how. And it also would mean that you have to decline a rematch for instance.

popsofctown

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Re: Nocturne has been released, go buy it!
« Reply #32 on: November 30, 2017, 12:36:38 am »
0

That part of the game isn't missing, there's just currently an issue with your ability to see it.

Cosmetic = pertaining to appearance.

No one is claiming the hex is never being given.

You can say cosmetic bug if you like, I was being loose with the difference between bug and feature.  It is definitely below expectation.  But I don't have the creativity to think of a less harmful bug then that.
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Jeebus

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Re: Nocturne has been released, go buy it!
« Reply #33 on: November 30, 2017, 10:18:23 am »
+1

That part of the game isn't missing, there's just currently an issue with your ability to see it.

Cosmetic = pertaining to appearance.

No one is claiming the hex is never being given.

You can say cosmetic bug if you like, I was being loose with the difference between bug and feature.  It is definitely below expectation.  But I don't have the creativity to think of a less harmful bug then that.

Yes, there's an "issue" with your ability to see it, in that you can't see it. Obviously I didn't mean that the last part of the game is not occurring. It's missing from your experience as a player. Yes, that's "cosmetic", just like it would be "cosmetic" if the entire screen were black but the game was still going on underneath.

In my opinion, all the bugs and interface problems that exist in the implementation (and there are a lot considering that it's been live for almost a year) are less serious than this. If Smithy drew 2 instead of 3 cards, it would be more serious. But all cards work correctly in most circumstances. They fail with certain interactions. I don't really know how often these bugs break a game; it's certainly serious when they do. But not getting to experience the last part of the game is a potential problem in every game. Even if the result of the game is correct, the effect is that you were not allowed to be present during the whole game.

-Stef-

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Re: Nocturne has been released, go buy it!
« Reply #34 on: November 30, 2017, 01:26:34 pm »
+8

Yes, there's an "issue" with your ability to see it, in that you can't see it. Obviously I didn't mean that the last part of the game is not occurring. It's missing from your experience as a player. Yes, that's "cosmetic", just like it would be "cosmetic" if the entire screen were black but the game was still going on underneath.

In my opinion, all the bugs and interface problems that exist in the implementation (and there are a lot considering that it's been live for almost a year) are less serious than this. If Smithy drew 2 instead of 3 cards, it would be more serious. But all cards work correctly in most circumstances. They fail with certain interactions. I don't really know how often these bugs break a game; it's certainly serious when they do. But not getting to experience the last part of the game is a potential problem in every game. Even if the result of the game is correct, the effect is that you were not allowed to be present during the whole game.

I agree with you that this is very important. But you somehow make it sound like the end of the world. I don't think that's very true either.
When I play myself I get annoyed by it in ~10% of my games. The majority of games just end on buying that last province / card of the 3-pile, and no tricks after that.

But I will promise to get it fixed this year.
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Jeebus

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Re: Nocturne has been released, go buy it!
« Reply #35 on: November 30, 2017, 01:55:57 pm »
+2

I agree with you that this is very important. But you somehow make it sound like the end of the world. I don't think that's very true either.
When I play myself I get annoyed by it in ~10% of my games. The majority of games just end on buying that last province / card of the 3-pile, and no tricks after that.

But I will promise to get it fixed this year.

I guess when trying to make a point that someone belittles, you have to restate it and emphasize in a way that makes it sound even more serious. But I do think it's the most serious flaw. Any other flaw doesn't show up in anywhere close to 10% of games. (Well, except things like cards on the table only showing up when you hover over usernames, or having to click or right-click in the log, and I think those are more serious than card bugs, but at least there's a FAQ now where players can find out most of that.)

popsofctown

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Re: Nocturne has been released, go buy it!
« Reply #36 on: November 30, 2017, 07:34:52 pm »
0

You're correct, an allblack screen is also a cosmetic feature.  I included major cosmetic bugs in my review of whether I'd ever seen someone threaten patronage over the issue. I haven't, and I can remember some pretty crazy ones.

Most players are comforted knowing that the integrity of the game lies underneath the cosmetic bug and are more forgiving about it, I guess.

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-Stef-

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Re: Nocturne has been released, go buy it!
« Reply #37 on: December 02, 2017, 09:38:28 am »
+7

...fixed this year.

it's fixed on dev now so it will be in the next release (late next week?)

At the end of the game you get a "question" a la an undo request that says "The game has ended".
Your only option is to click "ok" (or scroll the log, chat). Then you move on to the next screen.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2017, 09:40:05 am by -Stef- »
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dnkywin

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Re: Nocturne has been released, go buy it!
« Reply #38 on: December 02, 2017, 10:00:08 am »
0

Just wondering, what's the reasoning for making the log disappear at the end of the game? I remember isotropic just added the final deck info to the end of the log.
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Mic Qsenoch

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Re: Nocturne has been released, go buy it!
« Reply #39 on: December 02, 2017, 02:18:00 pm »
0

Just wondering, what's the reasoning for making the log disappear at the end of the game? I remember isotropic just added the final deck info to the end of the log.

http://forum.shuffleit.nl/index.php?topic=2086.msg8324#msg8324
Quote from: Stef
I agree that it would be better to have both, and it also could/should be easier to access previous games, or that at least it would be very nice to have all that.

The reason for removing the log from end of game now is a bit technical; the information on the end-of-game screen was a mix between information from the gameserver and information from the metaserver. Now that you're only connected to one, it was easier to present information from only the metaserver. Off course that could be solved by sending the gamelog from game->meta->client, and it will probably work that way in some future release.
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Re: Nocturne has been released, go buy it!
« Reply #40 on: December 02, 2017, 05:16:40 pm »
+4

Why not just have the client keep the log and display it on the end game screen? There's no need to stay connected to the game server, just use the copy of the log that the client already has.

Jeebus

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Re: Nocturne has been released, go buy it!
« Reply #41 on: December 03, 2017, 12:17:18 am »
0

Why not just have the client keep the log and display it on the end game screen? There's no need to stay connected to the game server, just use the copy of the log that the client already has.

Yes, especially since the log on the server currently is wrong: When cards are revealed or looked at (which the game also calls "revealed") during the game, the wrong cards are listed. (It's been like that from the start.) The log shown during the game is correct.

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Re: Nocturne has been released, go buy it!
« Reply #42 on: December 28, 2017, 03:01:31 am »
0

Another autoplay one is always pay off Debt if you can.  Only exception I can think of thus far is if you want to leave 2 coins to discard Wine Merchant(s) from your Tavern.
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Re: Nocturne has been released, go buy it!
« Reply #43 on: December 28, 2017, 09:41:43 am »
0

Maybe to thwart someone who's about to Possess you?
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Joseph2302

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Re: Nocturne has been released, go buy it!
« Reply #44 on: December 28, 2017, 09:43:44 am »
0

Maybe to thwart someone who's about to Possess you?
I thought Possession is banned online now?
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Re: Nocturne has been released, go buy it!
« Reply #45 on: December 28, 2017, 10:57:04 am »
+3

Maybe to thwart someone who's about to Possess you?
I thought Possession is banned online now?

No possession isn't banned online, but it is banned on tables created by the automatcher.
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popsofctown

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Re: Nocturne has been released, go buy it!
« Reply #46 on: December 28, 2017, 08:43:39 pm »
0

Stef, if you run a ShuffleIT sponsored tournament, would Possession be permitted in its ruleset?

If vetos per player =0?  =1?  =5?
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