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Author Topic: Nocturne Initial Impressions  (Read 13007 times)

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jonaskoelker

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Re: Nocturne Initial Impressions
« Reply #25 on: November 16, 2017, 05:27:34 pm »
+1

Secret Cave looks interesting—obvious comparisons are Mill (cantrip DfB) and the next-turn effect of Swamp Hag, i.e. +$3. Where Mill is good at hitting $5 early, Secret Cave looks good at spiking to $6 or sometimes $7. It probably plays well in a Minion stack that's either lightly trashed down, or trashed back up with green, or that just doesn't do enough with an even Minion split; there it probably plays about the same as Mill.

Obvious Nocturne synergy is Faithful Hound. I was waiting for doggie's other shoe to drop. In general, DfB and other action-phase payload plays well with draw-to-x, such as Cursed Village.

Den of Sin is a non-terminal Enchantress without the attack. Cards (and actions) are at their most precious at the start of your turn; I probably want it whenever I'm building an engine, 4 is good and 6 is better, but I probably don't want it to be my only draw.

Tragic Hero seems the... hardest to use for great effect. In BM it's a Smithy for $5, which is slower than a Smithy for $4. In an engine... meh, you'll want action phase payload because it'll play somewhat like a draw-to-x because you don't want more than x; gaining a treasure anti-(self-)synergizes with that kind of deck.

I'm notsureif Guardian passes the Lighthouse test or vice versa; I guess with good deck tracking, a tactically timed Guardian can help you hit $n+1.

Sacred Grove is a bigger and better Woodcutter. When that's your +buy you take it.

I have no idea about Tormentor.

Leprechaun: A Gold gainer for $3—eh, if only I knew how bad Hexes are on average. Opening double Gold gainer seems pretty okay if you're playing a money game.
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MattTV

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Re: Nocturne Initial Impressions
« Reply #26 on: November 16, 2017, 05:28:07 pm »
0

After one League Match with them:

Bard seems really bad. I'm not even sure it passes the Silver test.

Yeah I'm not really too thrilled with the fate cards. Like there are maybe 2 or 3 boons that are actually decent but the rest are just okay.  It's not really something I'd want to revolve my strategy around cycling through the boon deck hoping to get one of the decent effects.

I actually really like the Doom cards though. I feel like the hexes are like polar opposites of boons where there are 8 good attacks and of those like 2 or 3 game-changing attacks. So at least with the hexes they're actually worth cycling through to see how badly you can damage your opponent.     
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RTT

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Re: Nocturne Initial Impressions
« Reply #27 on: November 16, 2017, 06:20:21 pm »
+5

if you enjoy 3 hours of Nocturne Impression talk i got something for you

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ConMan

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Re: Nocturne Initial Impressions
« Reply #28 on: November 16, 2017, 06:44:22 pm »
+2

I find Changeling's wording interesting since you actually finish gaining the card, then you exchange it for the Changeling, unlike Trader which operates in the mysterious "would gain" space. Speaking of which, it has a very minor synergy (sorry) with Trader, since you can "would gain" a cheap card like Curse or Copper, reveal Trader to instead gain Silver, then exchange the Silver for a Changeling.
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MattTV

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Re: Nocturne Initial Impressions
« Reply #29 on: November 16, 2017, 07:23:19 pm »
0

I like pretty much like all the night cards except maybe cobbler but even that one is pretty decent.

Of all the newer cards that stand out the most, I would say Night Watchman, Secret Cave/Magic Lamp, and  Tormentor. 

Night watchman: I've always liked cards that help you customize your hand like haven. This one I feel is a much faster version of cartographer where you can filter out the cards immediately and then continue to cycle for a better deck pretty quickly. Definitely nice.

Secret Cave/Magic Lamp: It's funny to see that these 2 are polar opposites as far as working against each other mechanically. I think the Secret Cave has some potential to combo off with cursed village, watch tower, etc. and even in the late game when your cycling through the greens to get that last province. But I'm more interested in the Magic lamp. I like how it's a reasonable challenge with a game changing reward that I think feels little nicer than treasure maps.

Tormentor: Tormentor I can see being my new favorite attack. I like how you kinda have the option to easily dish in some imps which in effect will help cycle through the Tormentors and attack. Then just buy some more tormentors to attack some more. But it's almost like the card has a built in combo which is really cool and I happen to really like hexing..so yeah definitely one of my favorites.

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Seprix

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Re: Nocturne Initial Impressions
« Reply #30 on: November 16, 2017, 07:51:52 pm »
+2

Okay. Now all of the cards are out. What stands out? What seems bad? Any sleepers? Any duds?

You’re just trying to lure us into making statements we will all laugh at in two years.

Where's the bravery? I want some hot takes!
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ehunt

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Re: Nocturne Initial Impressions
« Reply #31 on: November 16, 2017, 08:26:34 pm »
0

shepherd makes estates like real good

shepherd inheritance has to be crazy
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ehunt

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Re: Nocturne Initial Impressions
« Reply #32 on: November 16, 2017, 08:29:16 pm »
0

i mean remember when xroads was crazy??? then we realized it wasnt so crazy? shepherd is crazy, PS estates give you points now too
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octelium

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Re: Nocturne Initial Impressions
« Reply #33 on: November 16, 2017, 08:31:59 pm »
0

Changeling + Humble Castle......
Changeling + Knights ......

Probably not amazing.... but could be interesting....
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J Reggie

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Re: Nocturne Initial Impressions
« Reply #34 on: November 16, 2017, 08:59:52 pm »
0

Changeling + Humble Castle......
Changeling + Knights ......

Probably not amazing.... but could be interesting....

So that you can trash the changeling without gaining anything?

trivialknot

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Re: Nocturne Initial Impressions
« Reply #35 on: November 16, 2017, 09:08:25 pm »
+11

Okay, some hot takes based on zero playing with the cards:

Bard is good, and will rank near other power cards like Navigator and Nomad Camp.
Blessed Village is really strong, although still below Worker's Village.
Trashing 2 estates to Cemetery is good.
Crypt and Exorcist are two of the strongest cards in the set.
Den of Sin will prove once and for all that the hypothetical fully-delayed-Caravan is better than Caravan.
Druid is bad but you will reluctantly buy them anyway.
Ghost Town is not that good, but you will reluctantly buy out the pile anyway.
Monastery/Banquet will be a thing.
A Necromancer combo deck will eventually be found.
Pooka is fine, but people will underrate it because they will play it poorly.
Shepherd needs support to be good.
Skulk/Apprentice will be a thing.
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Seprix

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Re: Nocturne Initial Impressions
« Reply #36 on: November 16, 2017, 09:18:20 pm »
+1

Okay, some hot takes based on zero playing with the cards:

Bard is good, and will rank near other power cards like Navigator and Nomad Camp.


I see what you did there
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SinisterHologram

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Re: Nocturne Initial Impressions
« Reply #37 on: November 16, 2017, 10:39:05 pm »
+6

I think Conclave seems really weak and not interesting at all, but maybe I'm missing something.

Monastery will obviously be really strong. It only costs 2; It is essentially non-terminal, and it can trash coppers that are IN PLAY. Obviously, this is not quite as good as chapel, but it can really do some work I think,

Yeah... i think for 4, Conclave is ridiculously OP. It basically turns any terminal draw into a mega laboratory with +2 coin and turns every other terminal action into a mega village. I mean you won't get to repeat it with the same actions and maybe have a drawback on durations but that's still a little better than labs.

I don't think it's OP at all. It's just a village variant. It has the added bonus that you get money and the disadvantage that you are limited in how many you can play it and it also does not draw you a card like some villages do. I would not by any means call that OP. It's an appropriately powered village variant.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 10:52:31 pm by SinisterHologram »
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Cave-o-sapien

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Re: Nocturne Initial Impressions
« Reply #38 on: November 17, 2017, 12:14:20 am »
+4

Okay. Now all of the cards are out. What stands out? What seems bad? Any sleepers? Any duds?

You’re just trying to lure us into making statements we will all laugh at in two years.

Where's the bravery? I want some hot takes!


……(\_/)
……( ‘_’)   Monastery <<< Chapel
…./”"”"”"”"”"”"\======░ ▒▓▓█D
/”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”\
\_@_@_@_@_@_/
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markusin

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Re: Nocturne Initial Impressions
« Reply #39 on: November 17, 2017, 12:17:08 am »
+3

Hot take, Tracker is a sleeper card. Like, A tier.

The topdecking ability on a $2 cost terminal Copper (sometimes Silver) is interesting enough, but Wisps from Swamp's Gift and the $4 from Earth's Gift can get topdecked too, as well as the Silver and Gold from Mountain's Gift and Sky's Gift respectively. Many of the other Boons help you buy better cards to topdeck that turn, and you always have Pouch as a source of +Buy to topdeck two cheaper components.
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Accatitippi

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Re: Nocturne Initial Impressions
« Reply #40 on: November 17, 2017, 02:23:51 am »
0

Yeah, it's like one of those games where you get a window of opportunity to get an early royal seal. I always get surprised at how well it performs.
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SinisterHologram

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Re: Nocturne Initial Impressions
« Reply #41 on: November 17, 2017, 06:36:34 am »
0

Hot take, Tracker is a sleeper card. Like, A tier.

The topdecking ability on a $2 cost terminal Copper (sometimes Silver) is interesting enough, but Wisps from Swamp's Gift and the $4 from Earth's Gift can get topdecked too, as well as the Silver and Gold from Mountain's Gift and Sky's Gift respectively. Many of the other Boons help you buy better cards to topdeck that turn, and you always have Pouch as a source of +Buy to topdeck two cheaper components.
I don't think the fact that you get a boon is quite strong enough to make up for the fact that it's terminal (unless you get the +1 action boon, but of course you can't count on that).
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SinisterHologram

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Re: Nocturne Initial Impressions
« Reply #42 on: November 17, 2017, 06:48:47 am »
+1

Bard is the new Scout.
HOT TAKE!!!!      HOT TAKE!!!!      HOT TAKE!!!!    HOT TAKE!!!!                                     #RealBad #Navigatorisbetter #NeverBuy #ShouldCost3.          #StillWouldntBuyAt3
« Last Edit: November 17, 2017, 07:02:08 am by SinisterHologram »
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markusin

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Re: Nocturne Initial Impressions
« Reply #43 on: November 17, 2017, 07:37:05 am »
+1

Hot take, Tracker is a sleeper card. Like, A tier.

The topdecking ability on a $2 cost terminal Copper (sometimes Silver) is interesting enough, but Wisps from Swamp's Gift and the $4 from Earth's Gift can get topdecked too, as well as the Silver and Gold from Mountain's Gift and Sky's Gift respectively. Many of the other Boons help you buy better cards to topdeck that turn, and you always have Pouch as a source of +Buy to topdeck two cheaper components.
I don't think the fact that you get a boon is quite strong enough to make up for the fact that it's terminal (unless you get the +1 action boon, but of course you can't count on that).

I was about to say, if you think this about Tracker, then Bard must be pathetic in your eyes.

Bard is the new Scout.
HOT TAKE!!!!      HOT TAKE!!!!      HOT TAKE!!!!    HOT TAKE!!!!                                     #RealBad #Navigatorisbetter #NeverBuy #ShouldCost3.          #StillWouldntBuyAt3

Ah.

I haven't played with Bard enough to get a gauge for it, but it's arguable if Navigator is better I think. It really depends on the order of the Boons.

I mean, if you were going to open with Silver anyway, you can maybe look for marginal benefits off Navigator or Bard.
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SinisterHologram

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Re: Nocturne Initial Impressions
« Reply #44 on: November 17, 2017, 07:50:11 am »
0

Hot take, Tracker is a sleeper card. Like, A tier.

The topdecking ability on a $2 cost terminal Copper (sometimes Silver) is interesting enough, but Wisps from Swamp's Gift and the $4 from Earth's Gift can get topdecked too, as well as the Silver and Gold from Mountain's Gift and Sky's Gift respectively. Many of the other Boons help you buy better cards to topdeck that turn, and you always have Pouch as a source of +Buy to topdeck two cheaper components.
I don't think the fact that you get a boon is quite strong enough to make up for the fact that it's terminal (unless you get the +1 action boon, but of course you can't count on that).

I was about to say, if you think this about Tracker, then Bard must be pathetic in your eyes.

Bard is the new Scout.
HOT TAKE!!!!      HOT TAKE!!!!      HOT TAKE!!!!    HOT TAKE!!!!                                     #RealBad #Navigatorisbetter #NeverBuy #ShouldCost3.          #StillWouldntBuyAt3

Ah.

I haven't played with Bard enough to get a gauge for it, but it's arguable if Navigator is better I think. It really depends on the order of the Boons.

I mean, if you were going to open with Silver anyway, you can maybe look for marginal benefits off Navigator or Bard.
Yeah, I get that. I would just almost always prefer a silver over any of those cards - especially on the opening. The fact that it could be a dead card sometimes makes it pretty horrible. I guess the +buy and topdeck ability make tracker okay, but the fact it's terminal keeps it out of the A tier for me. I would probably only get one or two if it was the only +buy on the board.
However, this is all my opinion without having played with either bard or tracker, of course. So I'm certain my opinion will be somehow different with more experience with these cards
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smuggler

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Re: Nocturne Initial Impressions
« Reply #45 on: November 17, 2017, 08:00:18 am »
0

why Guardian?
its too similar too Light house. So why?
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markusin

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Re: Nocturne Initial Impressions
« Reply #46 on: November 17, 2017, 08:21:38 am »
0

Hot take, Tracker is a sleeper card. Like, A tier.

The topdecking ability on a $2 cost terminal Copper (sometimes Silver) is interesting enough, but Wisps from Swamp's Gift and the $4 from Earth's Gift can get topdecked too, as well as the Silver and Gold from Mountain's Gift and Sky's Gift respectively. Many of the other Boons help you buy better cards to topdeck that turn, and you always have Pouch as a source of +Buy to topdeck two cheaper components.
I don't think the fact that you get a boon is quite strong enough to make up for the fact that it's terminal (unless you get the +1 action boon, but of course you can't count on that).

I was about to say, if you think this about Tracker, then Bard must be pathetic in your eyes.

Bard is the new Scout.
HOT TAKE!!!!      HOT TAKE!!!!      HOT TAKE!!!!    HOT TAKE!!!!                                     #RealBad #Navigatorisbetter #NeverBuy #ShouldCost3.          #StillWouldntBuyAt3

Ah.

I haven't played with Bard enough to get a gauge for it, but it's arguable if Navigator is better I think. It really depends on the order of the Boons.

I mean, if you were going to open with Silver anyway, you can maybe look for marginal benefits off Navigator or Bard.
Yeah, I get that. I would just almost always prefer a silver over any of those cards - especially on the opening. The fact that it could be a dead card sometimes makes it pretty horrible. I guess the +buy and topdeck ability make tracker okay, but the fact it's terminal keeps it out of the A tier for me. I would probably only get one or two if it was the only +buy on the board.
However, this is all my opinion without having played with either bard or tracker, of course. So I'm certain my opinion will be somehow different with more experience with these cards

Heh, Tracker doesn't even produce +buy. It's Heirloom does. But it's fine to get one or two, because the top deck ability is what you really want rather than the boon.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2017, 08:22:54 am by markusin »
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SinisterHologram

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Re: Nocturne Initial Impressions
« Reply #47 on: November 17, 2017, 08:33:41 am »
0

hahaha, woops, I was confused about the +buy. I kind of like that heirloom better than the card itself.
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Re: Nocturne Initial Impressions
« Reply #48 on: November 17, 2017, 09:13:38 am »
+2

Quote
why Guardian? its too similar too Light house. So why?

Because there aren't enough reactions or other protection mechanisms in the previous sets to account for Hexes. It adds some balance. If a set adds attacks, it has to add defenses or the whole game tilts. No directed defense works for Hexes, so a universal attack neutralizer was the only option.

Plus, you can't draw a Night card dead, so it could be better when playing money or a slog that relies on a few big terminal draw cards, particularly if they're attacks. I'd think about throwing it in with Margrave or Torturer, especially if the engine was weak.
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SinisterHologram

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Re: Nocturne Initial Impressions
« Reply #49 on: November 17, 2017, 09:19:58 am »
+1

Quote
why Guardian? its too similar too Light house. So why?

Because there aren't enough reactions or other protection mechanisms in the previous sets to account for Hexes. It adds some balance. If a set adds attacks, it has to add defenses or the whole game tilts. No directed defense works for Hexes, so a universal attack neutralizer was the only option.

Plus, you can't draw a Night card dead, so it could be better when playing money or a slog that relies on a few big terminal draw cards, particularly if they're attacks. I'd think about throwing it in with Margrave or Torturer, especially if the engine was weak.
Right, but I think he's saying that it is functionally identical (almost) to lighthouse and if there is going to be an additional protection card, then he'd like to see one that is a little more unique than something that feels almost the same as lighthouse. I agree with him;I do think Donald could have differentiated it a little bit more beyond the mere fact that it is a night card.
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