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Author Topic: Seprix's Tier Lists For Every Dominion Set  (Read 10894 times)

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FemurLemur

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Re: Seprix's Tier Lists For Every Dominion Set
« Reply #100 on: November 20, 2017, 11:00:33 am »
0

I think you have accidentally switched up Pooka and Devil's Workshop.

What????

I'm just saying that Pooka is super good and Devil's Workshop is not.

There is no universe in which that is true.

Except for the universe in which trashing and draw is good and stuffing your deck with terminal Actions is not.

I hope this doesn't come across as a loaded question, because it's not meant to be one, but: doesn't Imp fit your definition of a Splitter? Like I thought I understood what your definition was, but then when reading the above, I'm left thinking that I don't understand it fully.



I'm kinda split between your's and Seprix's opinions. I certainly wouldn't consider Pooka an F, but I wouldn't put it at S or A because it costs $5. If it were $4 I'd put it in A or S. At $5 I consider it a solid B. Granted I haven't played much Nocturne yet and this opinion could change. I also wouldn't call Devil's Workshop an S or an F. Maybe more like A or B (but again, subject to change with more experience)
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Jack Rudd

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Re: Seprix's Tier Lists For Every Dominion Set
« Reply #101 on: November 20, 2017, 11:03:13 am »
+2

Pearl Diver is mostly good in the situations where you have a spare Buy but only $2 to use on it.
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Awaclus

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Re: Seprix's Tier Lists For Every Dominion Set
« Reply #102 on: November 20, 2017, 11:04:54 am »
+2

Well, I didn't forget that it was a cantrip, I just don't feel that that fact makes up for the fact that you generally have to use your Buy to get a card that rarely does much for your deck. Even if it was just a gain, gainers can usually get you something better (Ironworks could get you a $4, if you're using Haggler you probably bought more than a $3 unless your deck is super junked, etc.) But point taken that Pirate Ship is not a cantrip while the Diver is. I just think that, even being non-terminal, the opportunity cost of buying that Pearl Diver makes it generally not worth it unless you open on a 5/2.

But it basically never fails the Nothing Test. Usually you will end up with at least a couple of Pearl Divers in your deck just because you hit $2 or $3 and it's the only thing at that price point that passes the Nothing Test.
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Awaclus

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Re: Seprix's Tier Lists For Every Dominion Set
« Reply #103 on: November 20, 2017, 11:07:37 am »
+1

I hope this doesn't come across as a loaded question, because it's not meant to be one, but: doesn't Imp fit your definition of a Splitter? Like I thought I understood what your definition was, but then when reading the above, I'm left thinking that I don't understand it fully.

No. A splitter allows you to play two Bridges on the same turn. Imp might prevent you from being able to play one.
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FemurLemur

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Re: Seprix's Tier Lists For Every Dominion Set
« Reply #104 on: November 20, 2017, 11:22:57 am »
0

Well, I didn't forget that it was a cantrip, I just don't feel that that fact makes up for the fact that you generally have to use your Buy to get a card that rarely does much for your deck. Even if it was just a gain, gainers can usually get you something better (Ironworks could get you a $4, if you're using Haggler you probably bought more than a $3 unless your deck is super junked, etc.) But point taken that Pirate Ship is not a cantrip while the Diver is. I just think that, even being non-terminal, the opportunity cost of buying that Pearl Diver makes it generally not worth it unless you open on a 5/2.

But it basically never fails the Nothing Test. Usually you will end up with at least a couple of Pearl Divers in your deck just because you hit $2 or $3 and it's the only thing at that price point that passes the Nothing Test.

Fair enough. I can agree with that reasoning. So for you, is the F Tier reserved for cards that nearly always hurt more than they help?

Or perhaps a better question: is it fair to say that a card which never fails the Nothing Test is a card that you would never put in the F Tier?
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Awaclus

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Re: Seprix's Tier Lists For Every Dominion Set
« Reply #105 on: November 20, 2017, 11:41:10 am »
+1

Fair enough. I can agree with that reasoning. So for you, is the F Tier reserved for cards that nearly always hurt more than they help?

Or perhaps a better question: is it fair to say that a card which never fails the Nothing Test is a card that you would never put in the F Tier?

Well, I wouldn't say that. If Pear Diver cost $5, then it would suck. Since it only costs $2, it's good enough that it's just a little bit beneficial.
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ghost_of_jonts

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Re: Seprix's Tier Lists For Every Dominion Set
« Reply #106 on: November 20, 2017, 11:50:57 am »
0

Fair enough. I can agree with that reasoning. So for you, is the F Tier reserved for cards that nearly always hurt more than they help?

Or perhaps a better question: is it fair to say that a card which never fails the Nothing Test is a card that you would never put in the F Tier?

Personally, F tier for me is cards which are basically never bought and when they are, they do very little. Pearl diver escapes this because, while it does very little, you do end up buying it in a decent number of games. But that's only because of it's price point. A $5 pearl diver still usually passes the nothing test, but you would never buy it because now there's competition.
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Re: Seprix's Tier Lists For Every Dominion Set
« Reply #107 on: November 20, 2017, 12:44:37 pm »
0

I think very few cards pass the "never" test. I claim that there is a situation for every card in which it is the best card to gain.

But for some cards, those situations are highly infrequent. It seems appropriate to consider probabilities of usefulness or card value when evaluating the tiers.

Something like:

S: 0.95 - 1
A: 0.9 to 0.95
B: 0.7 to 0.9
C: 0.3 to 0.7
D: 0.1 to 0.3
F: < 0.1

So cards in the S-tier are important or useful in 95% to 100% of the games they appear in. Cards in F-tier are useful less than 10% of the time. These are just percentages off the top of my head.
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Re: Seprix's Tier Lists For Every Dominion Set
« Reply #108 on: November 20, 2017, 12:48:35 pm »
0

Fair enough. I can agree with that reasoning. So for you, is the F Tier reserved for cards that nearly always hurt more than they help?

Or perhaps a better question: is it fair to say that a card which never fails the Nothing Test is a card that you would never put in the F Tier?

Well, I wouldn't say that. If Pear Diver cost $5, then it would suck. Since it only costs $2, it's good enough that it's just a little bit beneficial.

There are several cards that can make use of do-nothing cantrips. Examples include throne variants, Adventures tokens, Conspirator, Vineyard, Imp, and Conclave.  Pearl River also technically has an ability that sometimes helps you.

Fair enough. I can agree with that reasoning. So for you, is the F Tier reserved for cards that nearly always hurt more than they help?

Or perhaps a better question: is it fair to say that a card which never fails the Nothing Test is a card that you would never put in the F Tier?

Personally, F tier for me is cards which are basically never bought and when they are, they do very little. Pearl diver escapes this because, while it does very little, you do end up buying it in a decent number of games. But that's only because of it's price point. A $5 pearl diver still usually passes the nothing test, but you would never buy it because now there's competition.

The Nocturne card that might come the closest to F-tier is perhaps Tormentor. The Imp gaining is most likely to be relevant in money-ish games where the Imp is not all that good anyway and where you'd rather give out the Hex. In an engine that dudded, Imp is a meh consolation prize.

The +$2 give out a Hex feels overcosted compared to Skulk and Militia, and Skulk gives more room for fancy play with the Gold gain ability (e.g. for trash-for-benefit). Bard helps you hit $5 at least before dropping in power. Tormentor is a $5 itself. It's a stacking attack, yes, but it feels very outclassed by Werewolf in terms of mass Hexing.

About Tragic Hero, I actually think it's pretty decent. In games with lots of draw, you can think of it as a delayed Gold that does something more useful than Gold when you play it the first time (before it trashes itself). Getting Tragic Hero is a good way to ramp up your economy as you try to bring the game to a close. And it's throneable. There are occasions where you can use it as more long term draw as well.
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markusin

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Re: Seprix's Tier Lists For Every Dominion Set
« Reply #109 on: November 20, 2017, 01:03:05 pm »
0

I think very few cards pass the "never" test. I claim that there is a situation for every card in which it is the best card to gain.

But for some cards, those situations are highly infrequent. It seems appropriate to consider probabilities of usefulness or card value when evaluating the tiers.

Something like:

S: 0.95 - 1
A: 0.9 to 0.95
B: 0.7 to 0.9
C: 0.3 to 0.7
D: 0.1 to 0.3
F: < 0.1

So cards in the S-tier are important or useful in 95% to 100% of the games they appear in. Cards in F-tier are useful less than 10% of the time. These are just percentages off the top of my head.

I think to really capture the spirit of S-tier, you want to restrict it to just the cards that feel unbalanced or overly oppressive. Cards that are widely considered to be in need of changing, even if it is not objectively strong every game.

My candidates (attempting to include one attack card and one non-attack card):

Base: Chapel, Witch
Intrigue: Masquerade, Swindler (more annoying than it is uber-powerful)
Seaside: Wharf, Ambassador
Alchemy: Possession
Prosperity: King's Court, Goons/Montebank (Mounty forces a horrible slog in all but the most trashing-heavy boards)
Cornucopia: Remake, Tournament (Familiar is an attack technically)
Hinterlands: *draws a blank*
Dark Ages: Rebuild, Urchin
Guilds: Butcher
Adventures: Gear(?), Page/Peasant, *possibly others*
Empires: Donate, *something I must be forgetting, but there are a lot of A's*
Nocturne: *dunno, might be too balanced for S-tier*
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Seprix

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Re: Seprix's Tier Lists For Every Dominion Set
« Reply #110 on: November 20, 2017, 10:01:17 pm »
+1

Hinterlands: *draws a blank*

Nocturne: *dunno, might be too balanced for S-tier*

Let me help you.

Hinterlands: Margrave

Nocturne: Monastery
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markusin

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Re: Seprix's Tier Lists For Every Dominion Set
« Reply #111 on: November 20, 2017, 10:23:51 pm »
0

Hinterlands: *draws a blank*

Nocturne: *dunno, might be too balanced for S-tier*

Let me help you.

Hinterlands: Margrave

Nocturne: Monastery

I thought of Margrave. It's the closest thing to S-tier in the set probably. Thinking about it, it's so rare that you skip Margrave thanks to the +buy, but like it doesn't feel as brutal for some reason. Border Village and Highway are some other standout cards, but these feel more situational, or at least Highway does. Maybe Border Village can be S-tier, who knows.

Monastery is, like, Chapel if Chapel was balanced properly. It's what a $2 trasher should look like. Still very good, but not S-tier broken.
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JW

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Re: Seprix's Tier Lists For Every Dominion Set
« Reply #112 on: November 20, 2017, 10:29:15 pm »
0

I think to really capture the spirit of S-tier, you want to restrict it to just the cards that feel unbalanced or overly oppressive. Cards that are widely considered to be in need of changing, even if it is not objectively strong every game.

My candidates (attempting to include one attack card and one non-attack card):

Base: Chapel, Witch
Intrigue: Masquerade, Swindler (more annoying than it is uber-powerful)
Seaside: Wharf, Ambassador
Alchemy: Possession
Prosperity: King's Court, Goons/Mountebank (Mounty forces a horrible slog in all but the most trashing-heavy boards)
Cornucopia: Remake, Tournament (Followers is an attack technically)
Hinterlands: *draws a blank*
Dark Ages: Rebuild, Urchin
Guilds: Butcher
Adventures: Gear(?), Page/Peasant, *possibly others*
Empires: Donate, *something I must be forgetting, but there are a lot of A's*
Nocturne: *dunno, might be too balanced for S-tier*

Remake and Butcher are not unbalanced, overly oppressive, or widely considered to be in need of changing. There may not be any cards in some sets that fit this description. And surely Cultist is far more deserving of this status than either of these two. As Donald X said about a different attempt to identify overpowered cards that also (for a different reason) found too many cards to be overpowered.

I think using a flat 25% cut-off point is obviously going to give you bad results. Man. I had four strips of bacon yesterday. Was one automatically undercooked, one automatically overcooked? No, let's put a stop to that right here, all four strips were excellent.

You then compound this by considering the cards ranked by cost. What if I made more weak $4's than $3's? In fact things just like that actually happened.

You would be better off picking what cards you thought were actually weak or strong, and then looking at where they fall in the different sets. Use Qvist's lists as a guideline if you want, but make the hard calls yourself.

And if you do that, you may want to include Scout somewhere.
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Re: Seprix's Tier Lists For Every Dominion Set
« Reply #113 on: November 20, 2017, 11:47:59 pm »
+8


I have no idea why good cards need changing as long as they contribute to the strategic depth of the kingdoms that they are in.
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markusin

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Re: Seprix's Tier Lists For Every Dominion Set
« Reply #114 on: November 21, 2017, 12:54:45 am »
0


I have no idea why good cards need changing as long as they contribute to the strategic depth of the kingdoms that they are in.

In this sense, I think that Cultist adds more strategic depth than Mercenary/Urchin. Mercenary just has the players beeline awkwardly to a thin deck with people getting pissed at shuffle luck. Cultist has that too, but I feel like Cultist has more counters, and the game gets into a weird but interesting slog afterwards. Cultist is probably an S-tier card though, I shouldn't have given it a pass.

Remake and Butcher, like, you get those cards almost every game. Usually when you skip them, it is because you had to prioritize some other S-tier card. They really push the power boundary I feel.
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JW

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Re: Seprix's Tier Lists For Every Dominion Set
« Reply #115 on: November 21, 2017, 01:21:04 am »
+1


I have no idea why good cards need changing as long as they contribute to the strategic depth of the kingdoms that they are in.

To give a counterexample, Possession is interesting strategically but also often makes the game horrible. It’s also way too complex rules wise. And it leads to terrible kingmaking in 3 or more player games.
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Willvon

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Re: Seprix's Tier Lists For Every Dominion Set
« Reply #116 on: November 21, 2017, 02:03:51 am »
+1

A couple of observations from this:

1) First of all, I really like this idea. Thanks for doing it and thanks to everyone for the good , civil discussion in this thread. There are lots of good points being made by everyone to support their opinion

2) I am really impressed with how this shows the huge difference in the 2nd edition cards versus the ones that were replaced. Most of the replaced cards would have been F or at best D, but the majority of the new cards are rated A to C. That is pretty cool!  I wish all of the people who rejected base Dominion because they felt it was too simple or predictable would have started with 2nd edition. Perhaps their opinions would be different now.

3) The last Qvist ranking had Wishing Well at 26 and Smugglers at 33. So how are they possibly worthy of an A ranking? Wouldn’t a card worthy of an A ranking at least be in the top 15 of its cost group?

4) Lookout is a card I like to buy early, but, of course, I never buy a bunch of them. It doesn’t take that long for them to possibly do more harm than good. It only ranked 20 in the last Qvist ranking. To me a card ranked S would have to be a card so fundamentally powerful, you don’t dare ignore it. If there are other good thrashers, I have no problem ignoring Lookout. Personally, I would not have any trouble with Lookout as a B, though I can see a case for it as an A.

5) Like many, I would definitely put Cutpurse at least on the same level, if not above Explorer rather than the other way around. In Qvist rankings, Explorer ranked 87 out of 96, but Cutpurse was 45 out of 73. So Cutpurse ranks much higher among 4’s than Explorer does among 5’s. I pretty much always buy a Cutpurse, but Explorer is very ignorable.
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Chris is me

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Re: Seprix's Tier Lists For Every Dominion Set
« Reply #117 on: November 21, 2017, 07:04:24 am »
+2

I hope this doesn't come across as a loaded question, because it's not meant to be one, but: doesn't Imp fit your definition of a Splitter? Like I thought I understood what your definition was, but then when reading the above, I'm left thinking that I don't understand it fully.

No. A splitter allows you to play two Bridges on the same turn. Imp might prevent you from being able to play one.

It’s frankly amazing that you consider Royal Carriage an unconditional splitter, a card that literally won’t let you play two separate actions if you don’t have a cantrip, but Imp is never a splitter because it doesn’t let you do your favorite thing easily.
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markus

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Re: Seprix's Tier Lists For Every Dominion Set
« Reply #118 on: November 21, 2017, 07:26:32 am »
+5

Imp is definitely not a "splitter". In the bad case Imp is terminal, in the good case it gives +1 Action.

But Conclave is a village, even though by itself it only allows playing 2 Bridges.
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Re: Seprix's Tier Lists For Every Dominion Set
« Reply #119 on: November 21, 2017, 07:37:38 am »
0

It’s frankly amazing that you consider Royal Carriage an unconditional splitter, a card that literally won’t let you play two separate actions if you don’t have a cantrip, but Imp is never a splitter because it doesn’t let you do your favorite thing easily.

You are making it sound like Imp somehow lets you play two separate Actions. It never does.
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markusin

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Re: Seprix's Tier Lists For Every Dominion Set
« Reply #120 on: November 21, 2017, 07:40:56 am »
+2

I hope this doesn't come across as a loaded question, because it's not meant to be one, but: doesn't Imp fit your definition of a Splitter? Like I thought I understood what your definition was, but then when reading the above, I'm left thinking that I don't understand it fully.

No. A splitter allows you to play two Bridges on the same turn. Imp might prevent you from being able to play one.

It’s frankly amazing that you consider Royal Carriage an unconditional splitter, a card that literally won’t let you play two separate actions if you don’t have a cantrip, but Imp is never a splitter because it doesn’t let you do your favorite thing easily.

Royal Carriage can stack on the same action card though, as seen in the Royal Carriage / Bridge combo. It's still a weird case though.

Imp is sometimes a laboratory. Since when did we ever consider lab a village or splitter?
« Last Edit: November 21, 2017, 07:42:15 am by markusin »
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FemurLemur

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Re: Seprix's Tier Lists For Every Dominion Set
« Reply #121 on: November 21, 2017, 10:18:43 am »
+4

I wish all of the people who rejected base Dominion because they felt it was too simple or predictable would have started with 2nd edition. Perhaps their opinions would be different now.

A few years back, my Mother-in-law bought Base Set to try relating to my wife (Mother-in-law does enjoy other lighter board games like Splendor, Kingsburg, and 7 Wonders, so we had no reason to think Base Set Dominion would be a bad fit). After having played a couple rounds with my Sister-in-law, MiL calls up my wife and complains "the game is just too easy. It's so obvious what you have to do and one strategy is easily the best". I assume they're talking about Chapel, because you know, it's Base Set.

Next time we're over at MiL's house, we ask to play a game of Dominion with her. Much to my horror, her "obvious winning strategy" is the Village Idiot. She just buys Village after Village, then only once the pile is empty does she start buying other Action cards and/or Treasures. Needless to say, one of us beats MiL by a significant amount despite intentionally playing a little sub-optimally. So we politely try to tell her between games that the Villages gain you no benefit if they're the only Action cards in your deck. She's skeptical. So I explain to her that, yes, you will have tons of Actions now, but after playing all of those Villages your deck is still just 7 Coppers and 3 Estates, so "what are you going to do with all of those extra Actions? You only have Treasure and Victory cards." Her conclusion: "You're just trying to get into my head so you can get all of the Villages first!"

We played a few more games, in which she stuck to her guns and lost every time. Despite my constant assurance that Chapel was in fact the strongest card in the box, she kept saying it was a worthless card. I even demonstrated a typical chapel Big Money deck in a game for her. No dice, Chapel is super weak and you only won because you got the Golds first. I couldn't get her to realize that the reason I was able to get those Golds first was because of Chapel.

So I'm not so sure that many of the people who were convinced that Dominion is too simple or predictable really know what they're talking about :P


While I'm ranting: I also have a brother who rolls his eyes every time he hears there's a new Dominion Expansion and says something along the lines of "Jeez, they're gonna have to start a rotation soon like all the other CCGs if they want players to be able to keep up". I try explaining to him that the core mechanic of Dominion is basically a rotation- as in you rotate 10 cards every game, and that you don't have to have the entire card pool memorized to play it, because thinking on the fly is a key part of the game. He doesn't see it that way. He also feels that Arctic Scavengers is a better Deck Builder because of how much smaller the cardpool is.

...I don't like to talk about Dominion with most of my family...
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Re: Seprix's Tier Lists For Every Dominion Set
« Reply #122 on: November 21, 2017, 10:22:01 am »
+5

I wish all of the people who rejected base Dominion because they felt it was too simple or predictable would have started with 2nd edition. Perhaps their opinions would be different now.

A few years back, my Mother-in-law bought Base Set to try relating to my wife (Mother-in-law does enjoy other lighter board games like Splendor, Kingsburg, and 7 Wonders, so we had no reason to think Base Set Dominion would be a bad fit). After having played a couple rounds with my Sister-in-law, MiL calls up my wife and complains "the game is just too easy. It's so obvious what you have to do and one strategy is easily the best". I assume they're talking about Chapel, because you know, it's Base Set.

Next time we're over at MiL's house, we ask to play a game of Dominion with her. Much to my horror, her "obvious winning strategy" is the Village Idiot. She just buys Village after Village, then only once the pile is empty does she start buying other Action cards and/or Treasures. Needless to say, one of us beats MiL by a significant amount despite intentionally playing a little sub-optimally. So we politely try to tell her between games that the Villages gain you no benefit if they're the only Action cards in your deck. She's skeptical. So I explain to her that, yes, you will have tons of Actions now, but after playing all of those Villages your deck is still just 7 Coppers and 3 Estates, so "what are you going to do with all of those extra Actions? You only have Treasure and Victory cards." Her conclusion: "You're just trying to get into my head so you can get all of the Villages first!"

We played a few more games, in which she stuck to her guns and lost every time. Despite my constant assurance that Chapel was in fact the strongest card in the box, she kept saying it was a worthless card. I even demonstrated a typical chapel Big Money deck in a game for her. No dice, Chapel is super weak and you only won because you got the Golds first. I couldn't get her to realize that the reason I was able to get those Golds first was because of Chapel.

So I'm not so sure that many of the people who were convinced that Dominion is too simple or predictable really know what they're talking about :P


While I'm ranting: I also have a brother who rolls his eyes every time he hears there's a new Dominion Expansion and says something along the lines of "Jeez, they're gonna have to start a rotation soon like all the other CCGs if they want players to be able to keep up". I try explaining to him that the core mechanic of Dominion is basically a rotation- as in you rotate 10 cards every game, and that you don't have to have the entire card pool memorized to play it, because thinking on the fly is a key part of the game. He doesn't see it that way. He also feels that Arctic Scavengers is a better Deck Builder because of how much smaller the cardpool is.

...I don't like to talk about Dominion with most of my family...

So your MiL saw this video and took it seriously?

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FemurLemur

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Re: Seprix's Tier Lists For Every Dominion Set
« Reply #123 on: November 21, 2017, 11:06:25 am »
0

I hope this doesn't come across as a loaded question, because it's not meant to be one, but: doesn't Imp fit your definition of a Splitter? Like I thought I understood what your definition was, but then when reading the above, I'm left thinking that I don't understand it fully.

No. A splitter allows you to play two Bridges on the same turn. Imp might prevent you from being able to play one.

It’s frankly amazing that you consider Royal Carriage an unconditional splitter, a card that literally won’t let you play two separate actions if you don’t have a cantrip, but Imp is never a splitter because it doesn’t let you do your favorite thing easily.

Royal Carriage can stack on the same action card though, as seen in the Royal Carriage / Bridge combo. It's still a weird case though.

Imp is sometimes a laboratory. Since when did we ever consider lab a village or splitter?

We didn't. I was just in a hurry, so I accidentally conflated soft terminal with pseudo-village (or "splitter" as Awaclus prefers) in my head. I was mentally comparing Imp to Herald as cards which sometimes play an additional action card. Which is wrong of course- Herald will be a Cantrip at worst and a Splitter at best, Imp will be card draw at worst and a Cantrip (Lab Variant) at best. Imp will get you 0 Actions or 1 pseudo-action, whereas Herald will get you 1 Action and maybe also 1 pseudo-action.

The real question shouldn't be "What is your definition of Splitter", it should be "When you say that Devil's Workshop is bad because it fills your deck with terminals, is that accounting for them being soft terminals?" My mistake for the mixup.



I think I get what Chris is me is trying to say about Awaclus' stated definition of Splitter. Awaclus, would you consider the following card a Splitter even though it would never help you play two Bridges in one turn (and would proactively prevent such a thing for the rest of the turn)?

Quote
Picky Village
+1 Card
+2 Actions
You may not play additional copies beyond the 1st copy of any Action card except Picky Village for the rest of the turn.
Edited card text for clarity. Card's wording probably still sucks, but you get the idea of the thought experiment.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2017, 11:16:08 am by FemurLemur »
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Cave-o-sapien

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Re: Seprix's Tier Lists For Every Dominion Set
« Reply #124 on: November 21, 2017, 11:28:05 am »
+1

While I'm ranting: I also have a brother who rolls his eyes every time he hears there's a new Dominion Expansion and says something along the lines of "Jeez, they're gonna have to start a rotation soon like all the other CCGs if they want players to be able to keep up".

I think there is some truth to this. If attracting new players to competitive Dominion was important for the business model (as it is for CCGs both paper and virtual) then I think there would be value to a "season" approach.

Quote
I try explaining to him that the core mechanic of Dominion is basically a rotation- as in you rotate 10 cards every game, and that you don't have to have the entire card pool memorized to play it, because thinking on the fly is a key part of the game.

You can be a good player without being familiar with every card, but I don't think you can be an excellent player. I stopped playing online frequently during the Goko/MF years and my skill level suffered for it. It took awhile to get back up to the level I felt I was at before.
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