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Author Topic: Blacker Market  (Read 282 times)

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Neirai the Forgiven

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Blacker Market
« on: November 10, 2017, 09:21:53 am »
+4

Yes, this is a joke.

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Drab Emordnilap

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Re: Blacker Market
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2017, 09:23:56 am »
+2

 I wonder if, if black-market were printed today, it would actually be a night guard it fits the theme, and they could leave off that part about having to play treasures during your action phase, could you could just give money you had left over from your buy phase.
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crj

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Re: Blacker Market
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2017, 09:32:02 am »
+3

If it were printed today, it might make most sense as an Event. Drop the +$2, drop the bit about being able to play Treasures. Price it at... oh, $1?
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faust

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Re: Blacker Market
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2017, 10:11:58 am »
0

Well, Storyteller already plays Treasures during your action phase, so if printed today, there would be no reason to avoid that. Buying stuff during the action phase is what's awkward, especially now that we have Debt and coin tokens.
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Blacker Market
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2017, 10:43:20 am »
0

If it's a Night card it doesn't need to let you play treasures. It's definitely stronger because it's non-terminal though.
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Awaclus

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Re: Blacker Market
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2017, 11:05:26 am »
+5

If it's a Night card it doesn't need to let you play treasures. It's definitely stronger because it's non-terminal though.

I wouldn't say that it's definitely stronger. Actually I think it might be weaker. With the normal Black Market, you get to see what cards it gives you and then if you don't want any of those, you can buy something from the kingdom. With Night BM, you have to make that decision without knowing what cards you would get, which is a pretty huge deal. Also, you can't buy something from the Black Market and then immediately draw and play it the same turn (which happens a lot in regular BM games), and you can't do the usual BM tricks with Tactician, Menagerie, etc or any other Action card interactions (doesn't happen very often in regular BM games but still happens sometimes).

EDIT: Also, you can't use the dollars for buying something from the kingdom, which is another big deal.
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mameluke

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Re: Blacker Market
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2017, 12:58:01 pm »
0

If it's a Night card it doesn't need to let you play treasures. It's definitely stronger because it's non-terminal though.

I wouldn't say that it's definitely stronger. Actually I think it might be weaker. With the normal Black Market, you get to see what cards it gives you and then if you don't want any of those, you can buy something from the kingdom. With Night BM, you have to make that decision without knowing what cards you would get, which is a pretty huge deal. Also, you can't buy something from the Black Market and then immediately draw and play it the same turn (which happens a lot in regular BM games), and you can't do the usual BM tricks with Tactician, Menagerie, etc or any other Action card interactions (doesn't happen very often in regular BM games but still happens sometimes).

EDIT: Also, you can't use the dollars for buying something from the kingdom, which is another big deal.

Yeah, along the lines of the the last point, if the Night BM card you want costs more than $2, you might not be able to buy it. Sure you can use the $ from cards already in play, but you might have spent all of it during the Buy phase -- you would have no way of knowing if it's worth saving your $ for the Night BM or just spending on a sure thing from the Kingdom. Imagine deciding between buying a $5 or waiting for something great from Night BM, only to flip over three $6+ cards. What a waste.
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trivialknot

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Re: Blacker Market
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2017, 01:28:19 pm »
+1

The quick fix is to have the top three cards of the Blacker Market deck be face up, which might be an improvement in general.

DXV has said:
Quote
Black Market could be a lot simpler. You make it gain cards directly, to get rid of the buying-during-action-phase thing, and then make a special dedicated deck for it, to simplify set-up. And hey I made that card, it's Tournament.
It would probably be fun to make a fan fix along those lines.  Although I'd never end up playing it because it would require printing a bunch of unique cards, so...
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LastFootnote

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Re: Blacker Market
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2017, 01:49:24 pm »
+2

The quick fix is to have the top three cards of the Blacker Market deck be face up, which might be an improvement in general.

DXV has said:
Quote
Black Market could be a lot simpler. You make it gain cards directly, to get rid of the buying-during-action-phase thing, and then make a special dedicated deck for it, to simplify set-up. And hey I made that card, it's Tournament.
It would probably be fun to make a fan fix along those lines.  Although I'd never end up playing it because it would require printing a bunch of unique cards, so...

Whoa. This just made me realize that I could print up proxies of a bunch of existing cards to make a permanent Black Market deck. Thanks for the idea!
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Chris is me

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Re: Blacker Market
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2017, 02:04:04 pm »
+3

The quick fix is to have the top three cards of the Blacker Market deck be face up, which might be an improvement in general.

DXV has said:
Quote
Black Market could be a lot simpler. You make it gain cards directly, to get rid of the buying-during-action-phase thing, and then make a special dedicated deck for it, to simplify set-up. And hey I made that card, it's Tournament.
It would probably be fun to make a fan fix along those lines.  Although I'd never end up playing it because it would require printing a bunch of unique cards, so...

Whoa. This just made me realize that I could print up proxies of a bunch of existing cards to make a permanent Black Market deck. Thanks for the idea!

I would just use the randomizer deck and call the blue backed cards a bonus feature of buying from the BM deck.
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Neirai the Forgiven

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Re: Blacker Market
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2017, 02:26:07 pm »
0

If it's a Night card it doesn't need to let you play treasures. It's definitely stronger because it's non-terminal though.

Yes. If I didn't whip this up as a joke, I think I would have rebalanced it as $4 or $5, with testing being the clincher.
I mean, it being non-terminal isn't *that* much more powerful as you need to have the money in your hand in order to buy each time you play it (unless you stick to buying $2s.)
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LastFootnote

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Re: Blacker Market
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2017, 02:28:28 pm »
+2

If it's a Night card it doesn't need to let you play treasures. It's definitely stronger because it's non-terminal though.

Yes. If I didn't whip this up as a joke, I think I would have rebalanced it as $4 or $5, with testing being the clincher.
I mean, it being non-terminal isn't *that* much more powerful as you need to have the money in your hand in order to buy each time you play it (unless you stick to buying $2s.)

Um, I think it's much weaker because you have no idea how much money to save from your Buy phase.
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enfynet

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Re: Blacker Market
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2017, 02:35:28 pm »
0

The Black Market Treasure-variant would be stronger, though.
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Neirai the Forgiven

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Re: Blacker Market
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2017, 02:36:20 pm »
+1

If it's a Night card it doesn't need to let you play treasures. It's definitely stronger because it's non-terminal though.

Yes. If I didn't whip this up as a joke, I think I would have rebalanced it as $4 or $5, with testing being the clincher.
I mean, it being non-terminal isn't *that* much more powerful as you need to have the money in your hand in order to buy each time you play it (unless you stick to buying $2s.)

Um, I think it's much weaker because you have no idea how much money to save from your Buy phase.

Oh gosh, I forgot about that. You'd have to gamble. Which makes it cooler/more frustrating, and definitely not worth $4 or $5.
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sudgy

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Re: Blacker Market
« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2017, 02:40:48 pm »
0

The quick fix is to have the top three cards of the Blacker Market deck be face up, which might be an improvement in general.

DXV has said:
Quote
Black Market could be a lot simpler. You make it gain cards directly, to get rid of the buying-during-action-phase thing, and then make a special dedicated deck for it, to simplify set-up. And hey I made that card, it's Tournament.
It would probably be fun to make a fan fix along those lines.  Although I'd never end up playing it because it would require printing a bunch of unique cards, so...

Whoa. This just made me realize that I could print up proxies of a bunch of existing cards to make a permanent Black Market deck. Thanks for the idea!

I would just use the randomizer deck and call the blue backed cards a bonus feature of buying from the BM deck.

I actually do this but just replace the cards with real version whenever they're bought.
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