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Author Topic: Don't be fooled, nothing for you here  (Read 2656 times)

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Witherweaver

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Re: Another awful thread about nothing
« Reply #50 on: November 10, 2017, 09:01:22 am »
+2

Full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Another awful thread about nothing
« Reply #51 on: November 10, 2017, 09:10:08 am »
+3

You know, technically this thread isn't about nothing. I mean, we wouldn't spend 3 pages arguing about what the word "nothing" means, right guys?
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trivialknot

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Re: Another awful thread about nothing
« Reply #52 on: November 10, 2017, 09:11:30 am »
0

I take issue with the thread title, because the other thread wasn't about nothing, it was about philosophy and linguistics.
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iguanaiguana

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Re: Another awful thread about nothing
« Reply #53 on: November 10, 2017, 09:14:50 am »
+3

I saw coppersmith brought up multiple times, and that isn't even a card...

Witherweaver

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Re: Another awful thread about nothing
« Reply #54 on: November 10, 2017, 09:22:51 am »
+2

You know, technically this thread isn't about nothing. I mean, we wouldn't spend 3 pages arguing about what the word "nothing" means, right guys?

Please start a thread about "nothing". Not about nothing, because that's what this thread is. Try not to be ambiguous.
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markusin

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Re: Another awful thread about nothing
« Reply #55 on: November 10, 2017, 09:35:11 am »
0

No card that simply gives +$x changes the value of Laboratory draw like that.
I think I found secret chamber's +$1 per dead card to be useful in more games than Coppersmith was. (Vault and Storeroom are even nicer obviously, but they do more than simply give +$x)

I think so too, and this idea points to Tactician/Vault, which surely is worthy of being considered a synergy.

Edit: you can even consider Tactician/Vault a Combo as it is very likely to have major influence on any board in which it appears.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2017, 09:37:23 am by markusin »
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Another awful thread about nothing
« Reply #56 on: November 10, 2017, 09:36:09 am »
+2

No card that simply gives +$x changes the value of Laboratory draw like that.
I think I found secret chamber's +$1 per dead card to be useful in more games than Coppersmith was. (Vault and Storeroom are even nicer obviously, but they do more than simply give +$x)
True, and this idea points to Tactician/Vault, which surely is worthy of being considered a synergy.

Hey, we were trying to get off topic here!
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markusin

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Re: Another awful thread about nothing
« Reply #57 on: November 10, 2017, 09:38:44 am »
+4

No card that simply gives +$x changes the value of Laboratory draw like that.
I think I found secret chamber's +$1 per dead card to be useful in more games than Coppersmith was. (Vault and Storeroom are even nicer obviously, but they do more than simply give +$x)
True, and this idea points to Tactician/Vault, which surely is worthy of being considered a synergy.

Hey, we were trying to get off topic here!

This topic is already the spawn of off-topic discussion. Bringing it further off-topic risks circling back to discussion of the Nocturne Preview Day 1 cards.
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faust

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Re: Another awful thread about nothing
« Reply #58 on: November 10, 2017, 09:39:00 am »
+2

No card that simply gives +$x changes the value of Laboratory draw like that.
I think I found secret chamber's +$1 per dead card to be useful in more games than Coppersmith was. (Vault and Storeroom are even nicer obviously, but they do more than simply give +$x)
True, and this idea points to Tactician/Vault, which surely is worthy of being considered a synergy.
Hey, we were trying to get off topic here!
It's not hard to get off topic when the topic is nothing.
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Cuzz

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Re: Another awful thread about nothing
« Reply #59 on: November 10, 2017, 10:17:14 am »
+9

"What do we got?"

"An idea."

"What idea?"

"An idea for the thread."

"I still don't know what the idea is."

"It's about nothing."

"Right."

"Everybody's doing something, we'll do nothing."

"So, we go into f.DS, we tell them we've got an idea for a thread about nothing."

"Exactly."

"They say, 'What's your thread about?' I say, 'Nothing.'"

"There you go."

(A moment passes)

(Nodding) "I think you may have something there."
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DG

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Re: Another awful thread about nothing
« Reply #60 on: November 10, 2017, 10:37:44 am »
+12

I'm currently putting an article together about self-synergy and I'll probably ignore everything in this thread.
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Cuzz

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Re: Another awful thread about nothing
« Reply #61 on: November 10, 2017, 10:42:05 am »
+13

I'm currently putting an article together about self-synergy and I'll probably ignore everything in this thread.

You'll miss nothing by doing that.
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dedicateddan

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Re: Another awful thread about nothing
« Reply #62 on: November 10, 2017, 12:04:43 pm »
0

I'm currently putting an article together about self-synergy and I'll probably ignore everything in this thread.
Please, please do this!  :)
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Jack Rudd

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Re: Another awful thread about nothing
« Reply #63 on: November 10, 2017, 12:38:16 pm »
+6

They can't all be the best thread ever.
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enfynet

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Re: Another awful thread about nothing
« Reply #64 on: November 10, 2017, 02:33:51 pm »
+6

You know, technically this thread isn't about nothing. I mean, we wouldn't spend 3 pages arguing about what the word "nothing" means, right guys?

Please start a thread about "nothing". Not about nothing, because that's what this thread is. Try not to be ambiguous.
I know when my girlfriend says "nothing" that a whole lot of something is about to be discussed.
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ycz6

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Re: Another awful thread about nothing
« Reply #65 on: November 10, 2017, 02:45:58 pm »
+5

You have said that it's an additive benefit on its own, which it isn't.
It is an additive benefit within your turn, just like plays that net + or +buys are additive benefits within your turn.
But not on its own. It doesn't do anything on its own.
Just wanted to point out that if one Village has 0 benefit, and ten Villages played together also have 0 benefit, then those benefits do in fact add up.
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faust

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Re: Another awful thread about nothing
« Reply #66 on: November 10, 2017, 03:11:27 pm »
+5

You have said that it's an additive benefit on its own, which it isn't.
It is an additive benefit within your turn, just like plays that net + or +buys are additive benefits within your turn.
But not on its own. It doesn't do anything on its own.
Just wanted to point out that if one Village has 0 benefit, and ten Villages played together also have 0 benefit, then those benefits do in fact add up.
And they are also multiplicative, so it's a synergy!
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

SinisterHologram

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Re: Another awful thread about nothing
« Reply #67 on: November 10, 2017, 03:19:20 pm »
+4

I can't believe I fell for this. Reading this thread feels the same as being punished.
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sudgy

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Re: Another awful thread about nothing
« Reply #68 on: November 10, 2017, 03:39:03 pm »
+3

You have said that it's an additive benefit on its own, which it isn't.
It is an additive benefit within your turn, just like plays that net + or +buys are additive benefits within your turn.
But not on its own. It doesn't do anything on its own.
Just wanted to point out that if one Village has 0 benefit, and ten Villages played together also have 0 benefit, then those benefits do in fact add up.
And they are also multiplicative, so it's a synergy!

Hey guys, Curse and Village are a synergy, because while Curse has negative value, playing Village by itself has zero value, so they multiply to a better value!
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SinisterHologram

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Re: Another awful thread about nothing
« Reply #69 on: November 10, 2017, 04:19:48 pm »
0

You have said that it's an additive benefit on its own, which it isn't.
It is an additive benefit within your turn, just like plays that net + or +buys are additive benefits within your turn.
But not on its own. It doesn't do anything on its own.
Just wanted to point out that if one Village has 0 benefit, and ten Villages played together also have 0 benefit, then those benefits do in fact add up.
And they are also multiplicative, so it's a synergy!

Hey guys, Curse and Village are a synergy, because while Curse has negative value, playing Village by itself has zero value, so they multiply to a better value!
Curse only has synergy in that scenario if you draw it in your starting hand and are able to actually play it turn 1. After that you are only continuing the "-1 VP" effect.
Another case of synergy might be if you have 5/2 and you buy a mint turn 1 and a Chapel turn 2. You could then Chapel away your remaining cards and then gain a curse with Alms every turn. It works extra good if your opponent gives you a Hireling with their Ambassador around maybe turn 8 or 9.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2017, 04:22:33 pm by SinisterHologram »
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SinisterHologram

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Re: Another awful thread about nothing
« Reply #70 on: November 10, 2017, 04:29:48 pm »
0

The best example of synergy I can think of is King's Court / Tactician. You get to draw up to 10 cards AND you get +1 buy and +1 action. The best way to win with this strategy is to ask your opponent nicely to Chapel away their estates, never buy VP and allow you to 3-pile. I believe there is a video of Mic Qsenoch winning with this strategy.
Adam Horton wrote an article on it too, I think.
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SinisterHologram

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Re: Another awful thread about nothing
« Reply #71 on: November 10, 2017, 04:47:09 pm »
+3

I saw coppersmith brought up multiple times, and that isn't even a card...

It wasn't a card before, but it has become a card once again through the power of guided visualization.

synergy is cool but don't nobody know what it is  synergy is cool but don't nobody know what it is   synergy is cool but don't nobody know what it is  synergy is cool but don't nobody know what it is
 synergy is cool but don't nobody know what it is 
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SinisterHologram

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Re: Another awful thread about nothing
« Reply #72 on: November 10, 2017, 04:54:06 pm »
0

This topic is already the spawn of off-topic discussion. Bringing it further off-topic risks circling back to discussion of the Nocturne Preview Day 1 cards.

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Gherald

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Re: Another awful thread about nothing
« Reply #73 on: November 10, 2017, 05:04:59 pm »
+2

I'm bringin' synergy back (yeah)

This thread split is amusing, I did not think I was saying anything remarkable when I mentioned the analogy. It never occurred to me people would call things like Village+Smithy a synergy.

But if some want to debase the term to apply to a [Dominion Intrigue 1st Edition] Coppersmith working on coppers, or Village being a support card for generic terminals...I guess I can't stop them.

I'll just note that it does not relate to the greater-than-additive meaning I use when I talk about card synergies, and move on. Maybe I'll add an adjective like "multiplicative synergy" so it's clear that I'm talking about something more than just chaining one card's basic use with another's.

And on the subject of this being "an awful thread about nothing", to me this is actually key thought process when looking at an initial board and deciding what to do with it. Searching for synergy is like looking for known "combos", but more wide-encompassing.

Maybe the people who use synergy to talk about basic card interactions (meh) would be happy to call what I'm talking about with the word "strong synergy". I guess that works.
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Cave-o-sapien

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Re: Another awful thread about nothing
« Reply #74 on: November 10, 2017, 05:12:31 pm »
0

I'm bringin' synergy back (yeah)

This thread split is amusing, I did not think I was saying anything remarkable when I mentioned the analogy. It never occurred to me people would call things like Village+Smithy a synergy.

But if some want to debase the term to apply to a [Dominion Intrigue 1st Edition] Coppersmith working on coppers, or Village being a support card for generic terminals...I guess I can't stop them.

I'll just note that it does not relate to the greater-than-additive meaning I use when I talk about card synergies, and move on. Maybe I'll add an adjective like "multiplicative synergy" so it's clear that I'm talking about something more than just chaining one card's basic use with another's.

And on the subject of this being "an awful thread about nothing", to me this is actually key thought process when looking at an initial board and deciding what to do with it. Searching for synergy is like looking for known "combos", but more wide-encompassing.

Maybe the people who use synergy to talk about basic card interactions (meh) would be happy to call what I'm talking about with the word "strong synergy". I guess that works.

I think it would be helpful to have a few more examples of each category (whatever you want to call them).
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